Summer Camp - should DH let them go?

Hello! This is my first post and I'm looking for advice about skids and summer camp. DH sees them EOWE and is supposed to get 6 weeks in summer. Skid summer vacation is 11 weeks. They go to sleepaway camp for 6 weeks, and BM has a set 3 week family vacation after camp ends and before school starts every year, written into the CO. If DH lets kids go to camp, as they have for the last 3 years, he only gets a week with his kids, spent running around doing last minute camp shopping, or the week before school starts running around doing last minute school shopping. DH said no to camp this year in order to spend quality time with them and so that they can bond with our 6 month old daughter, who they have so far ignored.

He is planning to take 3 weeks off - unpaid - to spend time with them because he's only seen them 4 days a month and a few weeks here and there for the last 3 years and he worries their relationship isn't close like it used to be. Kids are not happy about no camp and this is the only thing they want to talk about with him.

We are on a tight budget right now with our LO. BM is the one who pays for sleepaway camp every summer and the cost is unbelievable, like 10000 per kid for 6 weeks expensive. We sent a nice email to ask if BM would consider only sending them for 3 weeks instead of 6 and she replied with a one word email, "No." 3 weeks is still over 6000 per kid and we don't have the money for 1 kid, let alone 3. There are some cheaper day camps in the area that would be more like 800 each for a 3 weeks, and DH would be home the other 3 weeks. Honestly I would rather not waste that money either when I know the skids will hate anything that isn't their sleepaway camp. It will already be tight enough with DH taking 3 weeks unpaid.

Skids are 11, 12 and 14. They are polite when they arrive on Friday night for visitation and it deteriorates from there. By sunday morning they are usually at peak a**hole. They do not like our "tiny" home (2 bedroom, 2 bathroom) because SS11 and SS12 hate sharing a room here, SD14 hates sleeping on a foldout couch, and they all hate having to share a bathroom. We had them 9 whole days during winter break. It was really hard and they could not stand the rules we put in place (quiet hours and restrictions on when we could go out because of LOs strict napping schedule). They kept asking to go home and kept calling BM to ask her to come pick them up.

I want DH to spend time with his kids, but I don't relish the idea of 3 kids in my home for 6 whole weeks who a) don't want to be here and b) are constantly comparing our house and the things we do to BMs house. He's asking for my opinion if he should let them go. I'm going to support whatever DH decides but IMO it's not worth the hassle. I feel terrible for thinking this way and I know how much DH wants them here but selfishly I think he should let them go to camp.

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Your husband is nuts if he

Your husband is nuts if he thinks 11, 12 and 14 year old wants to spend their summer bonding with a 6 month old. You already showed them during the Christmas visit that everything in the home has to revolve around the LO's schedule. Why would they WANT to spend their summer the way they spent Christmas break?

With that price tag, I assume they are attending a travel, sleep away camp.
The kids I know that attend those type of camps look forward to them all year. There's no way they would want to give up spending a summer at camp with their peers to spend a few weeks with a baby sibling.

I think the kid should give up a week or two of camp to spend with their father. But the baby's schedule should not dictate their schedule. There should be plenty of time for the 3 oldest to spend time with dad without the baby.

Unless mom is expecting dad to cover the cost of camp, the amount she is willing to spend is not his concern.

LO will start daycare next

LO will start daycare next month so they will have time with him that is baby free. They can't give up a week or 2. They either go or don't go. We can't afford one session for 3 kids, or even 1 kid, and BM is only willing to pay for 2 sessions or nothing.

Good luck on this, it sounds

Good luck on this, it sounds like you are going to end up with a houseful of angry kids.

Having had a large age difference between steps and my bio this is my personal advice. When BS was born ( during the summer) I had the kids keep it down but BS;s sleep schedule never dictated out lives. We had a small house too and we just made do. I never forced the kids to bond, thankfully they did it on their own because we never treated them like steps and bio's but brothers.

I am now divorced from my ex but I still have a great friendship with my former skids and our son has a great relationship with his brothers... We never did the step and half crap.

I wish I would have been more relaxed when BS was a new born about some stuff, the skids were home with me verses daycare they were 7 & 9. I would have lived more in the moment and worried less. Here is a funny for you from that time. Our house was small and when I would shower I would send the skids to the basement to watch TV until I said to come up because in order to have the bouncy seat in the bathroom with BS in it the bathroom door has to be opened. They told me it was no big deal if they saw me naked because they had seen their mom naked before... they are 7 & 9 mind you. I replied well it's a big deal to me, you might go blind if you see me getting out of the shower lol. They stayed in the basement till I said so.

Compromise is a good thing.

Gratitude for a parent who

Gratitude for a parent who can't afford to(or won't) purchase a bed for all of his kids???

Back-up. OP didn't say they

Back-up. OP didn't say they could not afford beds. Never said any such thing.

The issue of the beds seems to be space and opposite gender children. We do not know if the house was Dad's or if this dinky house was OP's to start with, or if they bought/rent it together and since marriage. We also do not know if Dad is sill recovering from the divorce settlement. I admit, the one thing OP said that is not sitting right for some is when she put it as "tight since little one". I believe it was a poor way to phrase what she meant. Dad is thinking of taking three unpaid weeks off work. Something he's not done the past three years. Little one is just six months old. This young teen didn't have a bed before the baby. Having yet another baby did not cause the lack of a bed for the SD.

I can't say I know a whole lot of people who just up and decide to take three weeks unpaid leave from work. It's usually use of paid vacation time, paid comp time, paid sick leave. When my husband was working (now retred), if he had announced he was taking three weeks off *shrugs* no big deal. Of course my husband also had month and month and months built up in paid time coming that three weeks of usage meant nothing.

Its my dinky house that I

Its my dinky house that I rent. After his divorce DH was staying with his cousin out in the boonies. There was plenty of space but DH had more than an hour commute. When we got engaged in 2015 he moved in with me and we are saving for a bigger place but it takes time.

If you are making additional

If you are making additional kids when you can't provide the BASICS(yes,I consider a bed a basic need for a child)for the kids you already have, then yeah you are worthless.

I have a hard time believing that a SM would support her husband taking 3 weeks off WITHOUT pay if he were paying a butt load in CS and that missed income would put a financial strain on the household. What woman would be OK with watching large amounts of fly out the door each month, then hearing her husband plan to take 3 weeks without pay????

The kids may live in a large home with mom because mom earns much more than dad. I'm willing to bet BM's income is keeping his CS pretty damn low. That was the case in my situation. Once I moved back to NYC, my income skyrocketed. Each CS review resulted in a huge decrease of CS because I earned so much more than my son's dad.

WHAT???? Why would a CP pay

WHAT???? Why would a CP pay CS????

If dad gad the kids full time, then damn right mom should be paying CS.

Your last sentence only applies in states where CS is awarded in conjunction with 50/50 custody.

When did anyone here ever

When did anyone here ever advocate the CP paying CS to the NCP??? :?

BM lives in a 6 bedroom 5

BM lives in a 6 bedroom 5 bathroom home, equal would be great! We do pay her CS even though her income dwarfs DHs income. Our state only takes NCP wages into account. Our 900 a month is her car payment.

Not sure where you're headed

Not sure where you're headed with that statement. In my state Dad being NCP would pay 32% of his income for his first three children (modified as each ages out). Doesn't matter if Dad makes $50,000 a year or $120,000 a year. He's sill going o pay he 32%. He could breed a kid or two with his next partner, but he still would be obligated for the 32% going to the first three.

Also, it does not matter in my state what CP earns. Again, $50,000 or $250,000, CP is still going to get 32% of NCP's income. OP is not complaining over the CS of $900 a month. She's not demanding her husband try and modify support. I'm sorry you believe my state doesn't do things as you believe they should, but if OP's husband has been ordered $900 a month it is per our state guidelines/laws. His children nr him are not being treated o anything more or less than any other NCP and children in my state.

My state doesn't do the equalization thing. Yes, we've had a group advocating for changes of the guidelines/laws for quite a while now. SO far, it's been getting nowhere fast. I actually believe the equalization thing is unfair. *shrugs*

Huh? In what world does $900

Huh? In what world does $900 a month barely feed three kids? That's insane.

I have 3 teens/tweens and spend about $450-500 a month for groceries for 5 during the months when we have them. Less when we don't.

I mean, I guess I cook a lot...but $900 for groceries for three kids? Not sure how that's possible.

Half camp is still over

Half camp is still over $18,000 for all 3 and we don't have that kind of money to burn. Ha! If I wasn't sure BM would sue us if we pulled skids out of camp early I just might suggest it to DH.

On what grounds could she

On what grounds could she sue? He will be exercising his rights as set out in the parenting plan and has given notice to BM that he intends to do so and suggested she only pay for half of the camp. If she is stupid enough to ignore him then she will end up paying for camp even if the kids are there or not.

For what it is worth, your husband is the only person to decide what he does with his kids on his visitation, not his kids, not BM. I think it is great that he is trying to repair their relationship, even if it means money will be a bit tight. He should stick to his guns and teach his kids that fun times do not have to come in expensive packages.

I would imagine that they

I would imagine that they would go out of the house at some point in the 3 weeks....

And worshiping their new sibling is a hyperbole invented by you to make the op and her husband sound obsessed with their new baby when in fact it seems they are going out of their way to spend time with all the kids and build stronger relationships.

That's not delusional at all.

I'm the oldest of 6 and my youngest sister is 13 years younger than me. We had an amazing relationship and are incredibly close. I took her out all the time when she was a kid...starting when I was driving and she was about 3. We had all kinds of amazing adventures together. I taught at her high school when she was a Sophomore-Senior and took her home every day. Some of the best years of my life

No one said anything about worshiping. You're just being nasty. It's not wrong to expect and encourage siblings to form a bond.

It looks like they are trying

It looks like they are trying now, but that Christmas visit sounds like pure hell. More than likely, that visit is playing a part in their decision not to give up time at camp. (NO, I don't think the kids should get to have the final say on this)

I hope this Dad hasn't taught

I hope this Dad hasn't taught the kids to go to the top and out the windows. We'd have another baby either not saved or tossed from the roof. }:)

It's true that not every

It's true that not every family has the means to provide the space. In those cases, the children grow up in those conditions and don't know any different. These kids are USED to their space and privacy. I think it is perfectly understandable that they would have a hard time giving all that up.

For the love of chocolate-let

For the love of chocolate-let the damn brats go to camp
You certainly do NOT want 3 moody preteens in your house griping and bitching

And I can tell you (since I was once 12 with a newborn sibling) being around an infant quite sucks
because you want mom and Dad's attention but they're all ga ga over the new baby.

let them go-trust me it'll be for the best

If it were me, I would let

If it were me, I would let them go to camp if it's that important to them. While it's important they have a relationship with dad, forcing them to miss something which is obviously very important to them is only going to cause resentment, and rather than bonding with the baby they're going to resent her even more as they'll probably get it into their heads that she's the main reason they're having to miss out. I should imagine as well as camp being great fun, they'll learn a lot about life skills, teamwork, independence and practical stuff which will be valuable in helping them to develop into well-rounded young adults, and if bm's paying you're not having to worry about finding the money yourselves if things are tight. From their point of view, having to miss camp to stay at dad's will be something to be endured rather than something to enjoy and will only make for a very tense, unhappy visit for everyone. As someone else mentioned, would it be practical to look at having extra time with the skids in other school holidays, maybe just for a week maximum at a time? That way they'd get to spend time with their dad and baby sister without the feeling of being cramped and losing their privacy for an extensive period of time but they'd still get to go to camp in the summer. Could you afford to save for a short budget break later in the year for you all as a family to do something together? Not sure how easy it is to get cheap breaks in the USA but we're in the UK and on a tight budget, and we manage to save enough for at least a few days away with the kids every year as a family and always have a great time despite not spending a lot. From your skids point of view, making them miss camp is only going to make them angry, resentful and even less likely to want to spend time with their dad and sister so to me would be counter productive and only make things worse.

BM cannot make plans for the

BM cannot make plans for the kids on their dad's time if he isn't willing to give up that time. I don't know why your DH is asking BM for three weeks of camp instead of six, as a non custodial parent he can take as much or as little of his vacation as he wants. He should have sent the email STATING (not asking) that he is taking off these three weeks in June/July and will have the kids. And she is more than welcome to send them to came the other three weeks if she wants but if not then he will make other arrangements at another summer camp for them during his time. She's not in control of this and you can't be mad at her because he's the one acting like he doesn't have any rights.

As for the kids-who cares if they complain about being cramped. They're only there sometimes and there are plenty of families with less. I think your delusional if you think forcing them to spend time with a baby is going to make things better. They are teens. They want to hang out, shop, go to the movies, etc. That magical teen who loves his baby siblings is rare in nuclear families and a joke for blended ones so give that up and just let them be.

Perfect. If he didn't take

Perfect. If he didn't take the time people would be saying he is a useless dad for not spending time with his kids. Just because this is an expensive camp and not just the kids and BM wanting the kids to stay at bm's house all of a sudden time with dad doesn't count and isn't important. It sounds like it is time for these kids to have a dose of reality.

The kids have been living

The kids have been living their reality for years. They have a mother who has the ability to pay for them to spend 6 weeks at an awesome camp. Their reality will be different from those kids that come from families with less disposable income.

For 3 years,dad has been just fine with the kids attending camp for 6 weeks. Now all of a sudden he wants to revamp things and the kids are naturally pushing back.

??? Dad gets to see his kids

??? Dad gets to see his kids and the kids get to spend time with dad. That sounds like a positive to me.

BM should not take them on a

BM should not take them on a 3 week vacation. Dad should get 5 weeks

The kids should either get 6

The kids should either get 6 week camp or the 3 week vacation with mom not both. And dad gets the rest of the time that falls outside that choice. Unless there is a way to make up 6 weeks in the school year that can be written into the CO.

The kids should either get 6

Why now. For the past three

Why now. For the past three years Dad has allowed his kids o do he six week camp. No questions. No problems. This camp cost $30,000. The time to have an issue with summer camp was three years ago. These kids have friends and fun action packed summer...now Dad wants them to stay home, do nothing and 'bond' with a baby. In a shoebox.

I'll ask. Is this the home Dad has been in since the divorce? Has he been smashing two boys in one bedroom with the daughter on the living room sofa all along? And now here comes baby and it's tighter and tons of 'baby rules'. Currently the older kids come EOWE and tolerate it. They spent nine days at Christmas (since arrival of baby) and everybody was miserable. Well, except baby. How much 'bonding' did he baby and kids do during those nine days? Little to none. How much do they do EOWE? Little to none. What makes Dad think weeks and weeks is a good idea? What will be different during those weeks that isn't possible during the EOWE and the odd extra days for breaks/holidays? I would think if it's spending time with his children and bringing hem all together as a family, he'd be working on that EOWE and those extra break/holiday visits.

Had you asked this question three years ago, before the very first camping summer, I would have said 'no, no camp, these kids belong with their Dad for their time. The time is important and trumps summer camp desires. But no, that's not my answer now. Dad willingly and happily gave up his time all these years.

If Dad wants time, perhaps he can suggest to BM he have he kids an extra weekend a month instead of the six week summer. Or an extra weekend every couple of months like during long weekend school breaks. I think it's wrong for Dad o now decide to suddenly have this interest in summer visit with his kids , sitting home, being quiet and only emerging out when baby's schedule allows when in fact he had no interest in having these bonding summer for numerous past summers.

I don't blame the kids for being angry at him.

We have never paid for camp.

We have never paid for camp. BM has always paid for all 3 skids. I want them to go to camp, as I said in my post, but its not my decision. DH wants them with us for the summer.

If BM wants to pay for 6wks

If BM wants to pay for 6wks of sleepaway camp that is up to her. DH shows up after 3wks with his visitation CO in hand and picks up his kids.... end of story. After DH's 6 wks then they can go back to BM the last two weeks of summer and she can do with them whatever she wants.

Not a difficult problem. Just be ready to smack BM around the head and shoulders with a rolled up copy of the CO.

As for a small house with a lot of kids.... we battled this from the opposite direction that you are fighting. My SS's SpermIdiot would move in a new breeder of the month partner with her several prior relationship spawn and that would relegate my Skid to sleeping on the floor when he was in SpermLand for visitation. When we received this information during a once a week visitation phone call with the Skid my wife went ballistic on the SpermIdiot and informed him that the kid gets a bed immediately or he would be in court the next day.

The younger (3) SpermIdiot spawned half sibs were living with SpermGrandHag so they were not subject to the DipShitIots breeder of the month brood issues over beds. The next day SpermGrandHag picked up the Skid and never again did he stay with the SpermIdiot on visitiaton unless there was a bed available. We had no issue with him not having a room, a fold out would have been fine, but a girlfriend's unrelated spawn getting a bed while my skid slept on the nasty assed toxic waste dump of a floor was not happenin.

In your situation you provide a room for the boys and a pullout for the girl which IMHO is fit for purpose and a responsible and reasonable way to address the sleeping arrangements during visitation considering the size of your home. Not having their own room or a fixed location purpose built bed is irrelevant IMHO.

The Skid's can whine and cry all they want about not getting sleepaway camp or their own room or a sole purpose bed but the answer to all of that is that tough crap... suck it up.. it is dads visitation time.

As for their complaining and comparing their activities/etc.. at your home Vs when they are at BM's.... "We are not interested in that right now. Tell me about what you did at day camp today."

ppffff...where was that

ppffff...where was that bad*ss daddy the first three years his kids went to camp? He waits and couldn't care less until suddenly year four? Then he hides between some CO raging about 'his rights? Where was that 'oh, gosh, I must have more children, it is important to me as father and they as my children' for the last three summers?

I an glad you have never done

I an glad you have never done one thing and then changed your actions later to try to do a better job. People are allowed to try to correct their mistakes and try to improve their behaviors or should we all just accept that we can never change and not even try?

Three years of the same

Three years of the same "mistake"? Yeah, I can honestly say nope, never made the same mistake for three years.

That's one thing I think OP

That's one thing I think OP and her husband have to consider. The kids now don't pay much attention to their little new sibling now. How will the older children view baby when Dad says 'no kids, no camp this year, you will stay here in my house bonding with baby'?

What a load of bull to dump on this baby. 'Ok, little sibling, here we are all fricking three weeks, you know little sibling of ours, we really really sincerely resent you now' *stomps off to bedroom*. Yeah, happy times, happy times. Isn't that baby the cutest baby ever, we're so lucky to have a new baby sibling.

Why do that to the baby. Poor baby deserves a fair shot on the EOWE and holidays to make a relationship that will last a lifetime with the older siblings. Not a buttload of resentment. My oldest BS just turned 40. My youngest DD just turned 17. Yep, a huge age difference. But these two are close. They care for each other. They will be 'family' long after husband and I are gone.

The fuss is because their

The fuss is because their relationship isnt what it was. They are different around him, more dismissive and rude. He has tried to make them happy by letting them go to camp but losing that time together has not been good for their relationship. I think a week of vacation before camp and maybe changing the CO to add mid week visits would be better than 6 weeks in our home when they don't want to be there.

Your DH needs to let the kids

Your DH needs to let the kids go to camp. He has allowed it for the last 3 years and I am sure the kids are already looking forward to going this year.

The fact that he is planning on taking 3 weeks off UNPAID would aggravate me to no end. Sounds like you guys can't afford that. How does he plan to feed and entertain 3 kids for his visitation ?

I understand he wants to spend more time with his kids, but forcing this visitation will backfire . They will resent and hate him over missng camp to hang out in a crowded house for weeks.

My SD's BM lives in one room

My SD's BM lives in one room with her baby in a house where she hates the owner so only goes out of the room when the owner is not there. When we send sd for visits they will all be sharing the one room. Presumably sd9 and BM will be sharing the bed. Should we not send her because at our house sd has her own bedroom, does not have to hide in one room and we could afford to send her to a nice day camp where she will have fun for the summer?

Your daughter's mom is also

Your daughter's mom is also worthless. Instead of improving herself so that she has the ability to provide formher daughter, she popped another kid she can't afford.

I don't care if you're a man or woman, creating additional kids when you can't provide the ones you have with the basics is disgusting.

If were my kid I would say no overnights until mom purchased the kid a bed. Or, I would purchase one myself.

If the skids are going to a

If the skids are going to a camp during his parenting time shouldn't that time be made up? Can't he have them every weekend until his six weeks are fulfilled? Usually there is a clause in the CO that talks about making up missed parenting time.

I honestly think if people

I honestly think if people can't provide their minor kids with basic accommodations like a bed (it's the simplest accommodation ever), they are being extremely irresponsible having more kids. I am not saying people need to live in huge houses and luxury but basic things are a given. If he can't afford basics for kids he already has then why have more? He cant even buy folding bed from ikea so skid doesn't sleep on a couch all summer? gee

Women can earn their own way

Women can earn their own way in the world these days. Plus please let's not tell mothers they should have aborted their child, that is rude and upsetting let alone the most unhelpful comment you could make.

We really know very little about this couples finances, I cannot imagine they are in that bad of a state if he can afford to pay $900 a month in cs plus they are saving to buy a house. They probably live in a smaller house to help save money quicker rather than move into a bigger place but be renting for longer. If the op's husband can afford to take 3 weeks unpaid leave this summer, he must have some good savings to do that, your average broke person could not afford that. Saying things will be a bit tight does not give any information on what that would mean. Does that mean no separate vacation for the op and her husband or maybe it means they are not having take out any more to afford it, these are small sacrifices that could be considered a tightening of the belt to afford something important to the op's husband. I do not know the true picture of their finances and neither does anyone else here. My reading if the op and the updates makes me think that they are a financially sound couple making choices that work for them now and in the future rather than the tune of people who are perpetually broke which is what people are wanting to paint an image of here.

Why isn't dad sharing

Why isn't dad sharing expenses?

SD has a sofa bed. Its not a

SD has a sofa bed. Its not a crappy IKEA futon, its a very nice Crate & Barrel queen sized sofa bed that we got on clearance that is as comfortable as our bed. She has a bed, just not a bedroom.

I am one of 6. This house is nicer than anything I grew up in. We are being responsible by not jumping the gun and buying a bigger home than we can afford, and we are not buying a 5 bedroom home when we do finally purchase so that everyone has their own room, not practical.

When BM and DH divorced she took everything and DH took on debt from a side business he started that didn't work out. DH has a good job, lived with his family and had it paid off before we got together but he came into this relationship with not much savings and no retirement. I have savings and a good job. We are building up our savings, living below our means and eventually we will have a bigger home. It is crowded right now but it only seems catastrophic because the skids live in a mcmansion 85% of the time and have a lifestyle that is unatainable to most people.

How many people can spend 30000 on camp? Or even 18000?

We don't contribute to other expenses. We pay what we are required, $900. SD drinks a $8 whole foods green juice every morning and every afternoon. Thats $500 on juice every month. Good for her, spend what you want. We should not have to pay for this lifestyle.

If dad wants to see kids more, why not ask for more custody?

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Summer Camp - should DH let them go?

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