Almost time for court... But with a lying BM makes this nerve wracking
Will we ever be done with this situation? It's been a while.... since my stepdaughter (SD) had her baby in January. She resides in a rental property under her mother's name with her new baby and boyfriend. Her mother moved out in September to live with her new boyfriend, an hour away. In September, my husband filed a motion to terminate child support while my SD was still in school part-time and working full-time. Currently, she is on FMLA post-baby leave from both work and school. Despite these changes, my husband is still paying $1000 a month in child support for his 18-year-old daughter who is not living with her mother and declined offers to live with other adults, insisting on living independently. In Massachusetts, child support does not end at 18; it can extend to 21 if the child is still domiciled with the custodial parent or financially dependent.
Finally, my husband has a Pathways meeting this week where they will initially work with a mediator to try to settle the matter. However, my stepdaughter's mother is resisting any resolution, claiming that she still fully financially supports my SD. However, my SD and her boyfriend are both working full-time as managers at McDonald's. According to my stepdaughter, she contributes $600-700 a month to her mother. Yet, when we received financial documents from my stepdaughter's mother, the figures were incredibly inflated. She claims to provide $1290 a week, not a month, to support my stepdaughter financially. She itemizes expenses such as $200 for her cell phone, $300 for her car payment, and $1500 a month to a hairdressing school. She also alleges that we lack knowledge of my stepdaughter's housing and finances, which cannot be proven in court.
Even my husband's lawyer was astonished by the claims that my stepdaughter's mother is paying roughly $5000 a month to support her daughter, who lives independently with her boyfriend. Furthermore, my stepdaughter applied for MassHealth using only her income, not her mother's, or the fact that she still receives child support on her. This allowed her to also receive WIC and EBT benefits, which amounts to fraud, although it's uncertain if she realizes it. Despite presenting herself as an independent adult, we are unsure if a judge will perceive it that way.
Various options have been proposed, including subpoenaing the ex-wife's banking and financial records, my stepdaughter's work, school, and banking information, etc. Additionally, it's been suggested that my husband may need to summon my stepdaughter to court to testify. He is fed up with the issues being created by both his daughter and ex-wife.
So far, all of the claims made by the BM have been lies. She's attempting to portray my SD as a full-time (FT) student when she's actually a part-time (PT) student. BM is employing every possible tactic in the hope that my husband will capitulate before any court hearing. However, we are confident that the truth will surface during the hearing. Nonetheless, we're worried that she will persist in lying, even in court.
How does one deal with a lying parent in court, she makes roughly 150k a year and does not need money from my husband but she will trying to take as much as she can as long as she can, cause another 12k a year tax free is nice...All the years my husband has paid CS and all of the Jordans and $500 hair appointments my SD has enjoyed while we rack up debt trying to update our 170 year old house to be liveable and just being able to pay our bills.
I'm sorry, but SD18 has a
I'm sorry, but SD18 has a baby. On top of all other factors related to school, work, residing elsewhere with her BF and baby, isn't that enough to emancipate her legally? Why on God's green earth is DH paying CS on an adult child who has her own child?
The lengths these women will go to keep their CS paychecks...
In Massachusetts having a
In Massachusetts having a baby is not an emancipation indicator, they have used it in a couple cases that are similar to ours that I was able to locate but in Mass it continues at least until 21 unless the person is emancipated.
You would think, but in most
You would think, but in most (maybe all) states, having a baby does not emancipate a child. In my case, my SD got pregnant, got married, and dropped out of high school, so DH was able to get her emancipated.
And that’s why this board exists
BM thinks they are queen for life. Hope your lawer can do something. SD is 18 she's an adult who has a a baby. Are you going to support her all her life.. BM can do what she wants. SD should be living with BM. Not with her BF Somewhere.
'What does BM do for a living. $5000 a month $60000 a year with tax's. About $75000, she must be making $300000 a year
BM should be paying you CS
I think she may try to say
I think she may try to say that her boyfriend is paying for everything but they now live in an expensive town with an almost 4k a month rent for a house, and he pays alimony and child support to his ex as a School Guidance Counselor, so he is certainly not supporting a lifestyle for BM. Last we knew she was making about 130k but has changed jobs and we assume she is making more but not enough to pay 5k dollars a month to her daughter.
What she claimed
This is what she claimed to be spending each month.
Does the landlord know that
Does the landlord know that two strangers are living in the apartment and that bm is nowhere to be found. Could she be considered to be subletting given that sd is giving her money every month?
The landlord is not aware
The landlord is not aware that there are two adults with baby and XL Bully dog and cat who pees everywhere living in that house. We do have the contact information for the landlord and we have this in our arsenal in case we need to use it. But this would put my SD in potentially a bad situation so its not our first hand we are playing
MA is a tough state.
MA is a tough state. They even do partial emancipation. Having a child does not guarantee emancipation. In MA you don't have to be emancipated to get welfare, so SD may be receiving WIC and EBT legally. School attendance can continue support till age 23.
Good luck in court. A lot can depend on the judge. A friend's ex took him back to court in MA for more support when both kids were in college. The ex had quit her high paying job to start a new career making 50% of her previous job. Judge ripped her a new one and ordered he split the current payment in half and give it directly to the kids.
She only qualified for WIC
She only qualified for WIC and EBT because she lied on her MassHealth application. The MassHealth application wants any and all support the person gets; I even called them to verify this. She went 100% on her own income and not her mother's and father's support. This has been a long time coming. She is only PT in school and the emancipation prong states they need to be FT in school for school attendance to count as she works full-time. The only prong under the CO for CS that could be in question is the amount of financial support but even that requires that she lives with the custodial parent and not on her own with boyfriend and baby.
Its only a matter of time before she gets kicked off MassHealth for the baby because she and the babies father are not married but he is on the birth certificate and the state will come to him to provide health insurance for their baby
Another friend's daughter had
Another friend's daughter had a baby and BF's mom was furious that her son's name was on the birth certificate. "Why couldn't you be like my other son's girl.and leave him off the certificate?.Now he will have to pay child support." MA took the BF to court. Child support and insurance ordered.
MA welfare will find him. Whether he will actually pay is another question.
Outside of him getting a 17
Outside of him getting a 17-year-old pregnant, he is the more responsible one in their relationship. I just don't think they know this is coming
From friends who have had
From friends who have had cases in the local family court, said the judges that are currently in the seats are not taking anyone's BS.
Evidence, hard evidence is
Evidence, hard evidence is what is going to win this case. If you need to get subpoenas, or evidence from a PI or to call sd to act as a witness then that should be done. Make sure you have a good understanding of the exact wording of the laws around this so that you can target them with your evidence. I hope you've got a good lawyer who is on top of all of this and can give you good advice.
I think the lawyer is good,
I think the lawyer is good, he had the idea to file a motion to temp suspend child support as this was the only thing that is moving this case along as BM is trying super hard to slow down the process. Although my DH filed in September and if it is determined that she was emanciptated since then well BM will be on the hook for paying back $1000 a month
Private investigator,
Private investigator, subpoena everything (financial records, accademic records, Mc D's payroll records, etc) subpoena them all and put them on the stand. Then filet them with the facts, documents, PI findings/video, on the stand after each lie. Hopefully they go pro se or their attorney does not motion to exclude witnesses from the court room. IMHO it is extremely beneficial for toxic people to have their ass bared to their friends and family in court if at all possible. In our case, the SpermClan attorney moved to exclude witnesses from the hearing until they were called to the stand. Spermidiot did not want his mommy learning of the depth of his depravity. So, DW's family, friends, witnesses were sequestered in one witness waiting room. SpermClan family friends, and witnesses were across the hall in another. I... was standing at the window into the courtroom. The Judge did not like that much but could do nothing about it. I was not in the courtroom. I was excluded. I complied with that, but I made sure I had an eye on everything.
The whole thing unfolded under my hairy eyeball. I could not hear a thing, but the SpermIdiot, SpermGrandHag, etc.. all saw me eyeballing them through the slot window in the courtroom door when they were on the stand. Interestingly, they didn't do the same when I was on the stand.
The comprehensive records, etc worked wonders for us in court when the SpermClan pulled their lies, poor mouth, manipualtive bullshit. An advantage we had is that we lived in Texas while court was in SpermLand (Oregon). Texas is a single party recorded conversation state. Anyone can record any conversation they have without informing any other party that they are being recorded. They would lie, we would play the tape. They would claim something never happened, we would play the tape.
The SpermLand judge was visibly irritated that we could counter just about anything they claimed and prove nearly every lie they told with official written records, telephone recordings, or answering machine tapes of ranting profane messages they left. "I never said that!" Click, followed by that person's voice saying exactly that.
We would go to court with file boxes full of stuff. They would go with only a few pay stubs and their lying lips. We brought everything the courts requested and more. They brought next to nothing. We would highlight that they had failed to comply with the Judge's order for information, we would get "the look" from the Judge. We would bring it up repeatedly during the hearing. "As requested, here is XYZ LMNOP. We have not seen this same information from the respondent." Eventually the Judge would get snippy with us for highlighting that they were in violation of the court requests for information and even gripped at us to stop trying to do his job. We won, resoundingly, every time.
We used this model every time we were in court with the blended family opposition.
Even with winning, I have never left a court hearing not feeling so skeeved out by it that I didn't want to take a scalding hot high pressure shower to wash off the sleeze. That people like them can play the poor targeted good family, lie in court, fail to provide what is court ordered to provide, violate a CO without consequence, etc, etc, etc. We adopted the "bare their asses" model and we never stopped until they crawled under their slime covered rock at the bottom of their shallow and polluted gene pool and stayed there. Our driver was SS's best interests and protecting him from them to the best of our ability using all legal, financial, and social tool available.
Good luck with the forced emancipation. I hope they all have their noses scrubbed in the stench that they create.
This sounds like the path we
This sounds like the path we are planning on taking at this point. We can subpoena all financial information and he plans on having his daughter summoned to court to testify, this step alone may make his ex quit this shit but the closer she gets to losing the more of an %#$hole she becomes so its gonna a ride. Massachusetts unfortunately doesn't allow for taping/recording of people without their knowledge so that wouldn't do us much good I have thought of doing such a thing when talking to my SD to just have it on hand but it wouldn't stand up in court.
The lawyer has suggested Mcdonald's records and banking for our SD and all banking and financials for BM. I believe BM thinks if she keeps making this difficult my husband will just leave it be but he is over this BS
It sounds that you have a
It sounds that you have a good and assertive attorney. Our initial attorney wasn't. Much more of a "can everyone just get along" type more worried about maintaining a relationship with the Judge, other lawyers in that community, and protecting their reputation in the community so to not alienate themselves from their potential clients. Not much interest in delivering as we paid them to deliver. I get their position. They had to live and make a living in that community and pissing off Judges, peers, and their community was not a wise move.
DW and I were assertive enough with them that they did push for most of what we directed them to do. After we had the first hearing, we moved to a killer shark attorney in Texas. We would build our plan/case, work it with our shark then go pro se in SpermLand hearings. Usually we had the SpermClan backed into a corner prior to the next hearing so they either canceled or just showed up, sat through the ass baring, and left pouting. We really were not doing anything more than enforcing the CO and countering their lies, manipulations, and PAS attempts toward my SS. We stood on the facts. The facts were our hill to die on. When we bared their lies, they would often try to make the claim that we were lying. We rolled out the facts.
Get your ducks in a row, build your data set of facts, and keep them handy in rolled up copies to smack the opposition with when they do what they do.
It's a heck of a thing paying
It's a heck of a thing paying cs to an adult who is playing house. .
BM is suposed to be there---but of course she is not.
Yeah, you might be surprised to know this happens more than you'd think.
Some dads are ordered to pay life long support and the same thing is going on.
Please keep us informed.
Sadly, more often than not
Sadly, more often than not the money goes to the X and not to the kid. Not that supporting a nominally adult teen breeder COD with direct payments is much better. But at least that money has to go through the Kidult's hands befopre getting to the toxic PASing X. I doubt a teen breeder would be particularly interested in giving money they get directly from the NCP to the CP. After all, the PASing money grubbing CP created the little beast. Behaviorally anyway.
TG that I did not sully my gene pool with my XW. I would have been on the hook for insane money.
Its so ridiculous we almost
Its so ridiculous we almost lost our minds when we went to visit my SD two weeks ago and she said she cant wait to get back to work so she can save up the $500 she needs to get her hair done. $500 for her HAIR! She has a new baby, works at McDonalds and she has $500 to pay for her hair to get done. My husband and I can barely afford to fix things around our house but she has $100 for her nails and thinks that she is entitled to continue the life her mother made her accustom to and pay $500 for her hair to be colored.
"Various options have been
"Various options have been proposed, including subpoenaing the ex-wife's banking and financial records, my stepdaughter's work, school, and banking information, etc. "
I would definitely go ahead with that - think you might be in for some surprises. I did a quick google for salaries for Mcdonald's managers in Mass. The results were edifying - 44000 to 74000 per annum (based on 71 salaries that were submitted),
https://www.glassdoor.com/Salary/McDonald-s-Massachusetts-Salaries-EI_IE...
There are a lot of holes in the claims being made by BM.
My husband is sure that going
My husband is sure that going in front of the judge will finally make her stories fall apart; she is banking on my husband giving up due to his busy spring work schedule. Her lies on top of lies cant keep up when their is proof. She commented that he couldn't produce proof in her legal written statement as to why she believes their daughter not to be emancipated.
When is court? I'm looking
When is court? I'm looking forward to hearing about it!
They had Pathways today,
They had Pathways today, which is the initial mediation to see if they can come to a settlement. BM didn't show up, but her lawyer did and kept saying, "My client says this...My client says that...." But soon, when some initial proof was given to him, my husband claims that her lawyer was a bit confused as BM has been lying to him for years. Right now my husband wants this to go to trial and they stated a 60 day discovery period. But my husbands lawyer followed up and was going to make a call to her attorney to see if they really want to keep pushing this further or settle as everything prong that makes my SD emanciapted has been met. We will go all the way if needed but hoping that her lawyer (who is a friend of hers) can maybe talk some sense into her.
Great set up for court. Keep
Great set up for court. Keep your collective foot to her throat and rip it out if she twitches. No quarter.
Enjoy the raise and have a emancipation celebration when the Jude signs the emancipation order.
The emancipation may even drive a closer bond for DH and his DD.
We have a very close friend who forcibly emancipated his DD when she was 17. She was an honor student. She started dating a kid a year younger who was attending a different HS. She would not go to school, hang out with her BF at his house when his parents would leave for work. She had a friend who was an student aid in the school admin office who would doctor the attendance records. When the scam was discovered the police were involved. She was sent to the Opportunity Center campus. She remained an honor student. With the issues they had with her and her influence on the two younger kids in the home/family her dad initiated forced emancipation when she was 17. It was granted and she was kicked out of the house. She graduated a year early with honors and received a scholarship to study mathematics at a major State university. She and the younger BF married after he graduatied a year and half later. He got a sports scholarship to the same university. She graduated from University 2yrs before he did, took a job out of state, and divorced him when she started shagging her boss. Our friend and that DD are very close once she settled down and pulled her head out of her butt. She is now on DH #3 but she and her dad remain close.
Maybe, emancipation will force your SD's head out of her own ass enough to start her on a path that will get her to viable adulthood including finding a relationship with her father.
Stranger things have happened.
This whole thing is a good
This whole thing is a good case for getting a vasectomy at birth.
Reverse it once viable financially independent adulthood is reached for those with the need to spawn.
Or installation of a tubal plug for the female element.
Of course not at birth, but it would mitigate a ton of drama and angst.
What does the original CO say?
Was this modified at any time ? Because SD made unwise decisions, is not your problem or responsibility. With her expanses. She would have to make $65,000 a year. And food , is not included.
No Modifications as of yet,
No Modifications as of yet, the amounts that were recorded by BM were highly inflated and included her own cost too, such as phone, and other items. Also she is not paying the school $1500 a month and my SD being a mom at 18 could get her grants for school and it would cost her nothing but the loan is through her mother. Mom claiming she is spending 67k on a 2nd home and its occupants! ridiculous