SD DIDN'T CONTACT HER FATHER AFTER SHE GAVE BIRTH TO FIRST CHILD
My partner is upset that his oldest daughter (SD26) didn't contact him after she gave birth to her first child yesterday. He received the news from his two sons (SS35 and SS31). Either BM or one of the SD's informed them.
BM from whom he is divorced who lives 2,000 miles away sent him a picture of their new grandchild 20 minutes after she was born. She was contacted right away after the birth and didn't hesitate to let my partner know that. BM is always looking for an excuse to contact my partner and the recent birth provided this opportunity.
After I suggested that my partner find out at which hospital SD26 is staying and visit her, he said that no one told him where and he seemed reluctant to find out. My partner lives closer to SD26 than his sons and BM do. In fact, he lives closer to SD22 than his sons and BM do.
My partner believes my SD treats him this way because BM used parental alienation to turn his daughters against him. I think that these young women (SD 26 and SD22) are adults and have their own minds. However, after reading Steptalk posts, perhaps the damage is so extensive that it cannot be repaired.
The last time he heard from his daughters was several months ago when they took him out for his birthday, his son paid for the meal, and they asked him for money. He's since given them gifts ranging from $100 to $500, but they still sporadically reply to his text messages and never call him on the phone.
He is so starved for their affection and feels incredible guilt at "abandoning" them when BM kicked him out of the matrimonial home 16 years ago. He visited them as much as he could during the those years, but it seems for naught. He is almost at the point of not having anything to do with them as he is so frustrated.
However, he will be attending SD22's wedding later this year because he wants to see his family and hang out with them; particularly SS35 and SS31 with whom he has a warm and loving relationship. Of course, I am not invited, so I will visit my eldest son who is a few hours away by car.
When I tell him this is not right, he says that it is more disrespectful to him than to me and that it pains him more than me. But he cannot know how I feel. It is very triggering for me as I was excluded by "mean girls" for most of my childhood and this seems to be more of the same. I think I would have liked to have the choice to attend or not. Visiting my son is 1000x more fun than seeing SD's.
Your thoughts?
Thoughts about?
There's plenty in your post for others to give opinions on. Is it about the new grandchild? The upcoming wedding?
In any case, the bottom line is the stepkids are adults. They are responsible for their behavior and for maintaining a relationship with their father.
I would cut the SD some slack if she just gave birth yesterday. I would assume she probably told BM to "let everyone know" and that's probably what she did. Your post is confusing - did the BM call your DH 20 minutes after the birth or did your Dh find out from his sons? If BM contacted your DH 20 minutes after the birth, that's nothing to complain about IMHO. Plus, it is not unreasonable for her to do this especially since this is their grandchild.
If you are purposely not being invited to events like weddings etc. then your DH needs to address that. If you are choosing not to go because you feel unwelcome, that's perfectly understandable and it's fine because YOU are making that choice.
EXACTLY, 2TIRED4DRAMA
My post is about the manner in which SD's are treating their father badly. He is/was the only guest at their weddings not allowed a plus one.
In fact, his daughters have gone so far as to refuse to meet me even though he's been separated for 16 years and in a relatioship with me for six years.
Moreover, neither of his daughters contacted him after the birth of SD26's daughter. I later found out that SD26 reached out to BM and her siblings, but not to her father even though he doesn't force himself on her, texts her regularly telling her he loves her, and asks her to meet up once in a while...most of which is ignored.
He heard from his two sons that their sister was going to the hospital, was in labour, and how the labour was progressing. My partner received a photograph of thei baby from BM. Hope this clarifies.
OK, from the top.
OK, from the top.
His daughter didn't call him personally after she gave birth yesterday ... has it occurred to him that she might have had a tough birth? An emergency C-section? Give the woman a break. He got the news the same day, why does it have to be her who calls him?
What is more natural after giving birth (or even before) than wanting to have your mother there? Mothers and fathers do not carry the same weight/importance in childbirth. Why does he think that the photo he received was to stick it to him and let him know she was there and he wasn't? She sent him a photo of the baby so he could see her/him. Seems like a civilized thing to do. Has he considered that she just wanted to do something nice for him seeing as he wasn't there?
How can he expect his daughter to be all gung ho for him when he won't even bother finding out which hospital she is in so he could to and see her? Tell him to stop being so damn wishy-washy and cut out the moping, to buck up, go and buy some flowers and go and see her! If he doesn't, it sounds as if he'll whine about not being there in the hospital and seeing his first grandchild for the next eon or so.
"My partner believes my SD treats him this way because BM used parental alienation to turn his daughters against him"
THere is nothing that you have written so far that makes me think this has anything to do with PA (I'm not denying that she did, just that everything about the birth seems pretty normal). Please tell him to go and visit his daughter if he doesn't want to dig the gulf between them even deeper.
If he's upset about them only wanting money then he should stop enabling them. No more money. Money won't but their attention nor love so he's just throwing it away. And he know that.
However, he really should make a stand about SD22's wedding. If you are not invited, he should not go (I hope he isn't footing the bill for it). Anything less is an insult to you. It's high time he stopped pussyfooting around his daughters' refusal to acknowledge you.
"When I tell him this is not right, he says that it is more disrespectful to him than to me and that it pains him more than me."
If that isn't proof that he's a self-centred idiot, I don't know what is. How DARE he imagine that this disrespects him more than you?! Ask him how he works that out! You are the one who is being treated as a person of no consequence, as a bit on the side, as a casual hook-up. How does that disrespect him more than you? Tell him to take his eyes off his bellybutton for a minute, engage his brain and actually think it through. I am angry for you! Doesn't he understand that he is adding an extra layer of disrespect by only seeing how he himself is feeling?
Yes, I wholeheartedly agree that you should be invited and that the decision to attend or not should be yours.
I agree
I only have daughters, no sons. and I agree that they would more than likely contact me first than their dad. And as I recall, when I gave birth to my first child, I did not even call my parents until the following day. And my parents are not divorced.
I had an emergency c-section
I had an emergency c-section after 43 hours of labour and didn't call my family for 2days. Nobody hated me for it and nobody ever held it against me. My parents are not divorced either.
:)
I had an emergency c-section
I had an emergency c-section after 43 hours of labour and didn't call my family for 2days. Nobody hated me for it and nobody ever held it against me. My parents are not divorced either.
:)
emergency c section
Like you, I had an emergency c section... forgot all about it. lol
Good points, Winterglow. However...
My partner was told that the delivery went well and it was relatively "easy". His daughter called her mother and sister as well as texting her brothers shortly after the delivery.
BM lives 2,000 miles away and wasn't present for the birth. As far as I know, brothers and sister were at their respective homes.
My parents passed away before I had children, but I did reach out to my ex-husband's parents and close relatives on the day of the births. They visited us the next day.
But you are correct about mothers and daughters. The mothers can relate to the process of childbirth in a way men cannot.
He thinks the photo was to stick it to him because of what BM said when she sent it.
I agree with your point about the hospital. I suggested he buy her flowers and visit her the next day, but alas he did not.
Since I posted this, his daughter replied to his text to let him know that she left the hospital and will find a good day for him to visit her.
He's not upset about them only wanting money. It just seems that on the rare occasions when they see him, they ask for money. It's not very much money either (ie. $100-$300).
I believe that they send this money to their mother who has difficulty managing her own money and who got cut off by my partner as soon as the divorce was finalized.
Moreover, neither of his daughters asked their father for any money to pay for either of their weddings.
Speaking of weddings, he believes that since he isn't paying for the wedding, he has no right to demand that I am invited.
I told him that he is less disrespected than I am as he is invited to the wedding and I am not. Even some of the bridesmaids had casual hookups who were invited as plus ones. So in fact, I am worse than a casual hookup - a persona non grata, if you will.
That is an excellent point where you stated that he is adding an extra layer of disrespect by only seeing how he himself is feeling. I think his point is that he knows his daughters and I do not; that their insult is personal to him and not personal to me.
I'm not excusing him, I am just trying to understand. I think he tried very hard to be in his daughters' lives after the separation and doesn't understand how they have been blowing him off.
He could have forced a sale of the matrimonial home when he separated, but instead he gave money to BM so that she could afford to live in that house with children until the divorce came through 16 years later and the house sold.
The two sons were adults at this point and moved out shortly after the separation. My partner has an excellent relationship with both of them and visits with them as much as he can. However, one of them lives 3,000 miles away. When he comes into town, my partner visits with him and his girlfriend. I have met both of them and have found them to be very pleasant individuals.
Sacrificing his financial situation in order to keep BM and his daughters in the matrimonial home and in the home in which the daughters grew up was done out of his love for them. In fact this sacrifice caused him extreme financial hardship as he was renting an apartment, paying mortgage, taxes, and insurance on the house, and earning only 2/3rd of what BM earned before she quit her job to move 2,000 miles away.
He feels dejected as his daughters' treatment of him is a big slap in the face.
Just 2 comments
"he believes that since he isn't paying for the wedding, he has no right to demand that I am invited"
That is just plain ridiculous. It's not a question of money, it's a question of decency. Paying for a wedding doesn't give you the right to dictate conditions however, he is only asking that his SO be treated with the same respect as any other "plus one" on the guest list. He ought to be ashamed for allowing you to be treated so shabbily.
"He feels dejected as his daughters' treatment of him is a big slap in the face"
I stick by my above comments and will add that he is choosing to interpret the events negatively and he is choosing to feel dejected.
Just wondering
Has he talked to his sons' about the attitude from their sisters? If not, they may give him some insight into the situation and, perhaps, give him some peace of mind (i.e., if they are still angry over the divorce, that he's moved on, etc. he can tell them to get over it because they are clearly selfish people).
You hit the nail on the head, BobbyDazzler!
He's spoken to his sons on a few occasions about this. At first, the sons felt disloyal to BM by agreeing to meet with me, so it took a couple of years before I met them.
However, exactly as you've put it, they realized that their father has moved on and are happy for him. Now that the divorce has been finalized and the house (which the daughters couldn't leave fast enough) has been sold, my partner thought that his daughters would accept it.No dice.
Just today, the daughter who just had the baby sent photos of her baby with SD22, SD22's fiance, SS35, SS35's wife to my partner. He has been trying to find a date and time to visit for the last several days, and his daughter has been non-commital. Yet she invites her sibilngs and their partners. The other sibling and BM live far away (over 2,000 miles). Disgusting.
But DID she invite them or
But DID she invite them or did they do like most people would when there's a new baby and just turned up with gifts? Tell your husband to JUST GO and stop wittering about! This is his grandchild we are talking about!
It actually sounds as if he's looking for slights so he doesn't have to go. He is also causing a lot of unnecessary stress for all involved.
There is MUCH…
Going on here and none of it good, respectful or proper.
Your partner is a gaslighter and a manipulator. If he has such a great relationship with his sons he can contact them anytime to get together...anytime. In doing so, still support you and have your back. He makes his own choices to help only himself.
When a person shows you their true colors, dont try to paint a different picture.
Good points, SteppedOff.
My partner gets together with his eldest son at least once a week. His youngest son lives 3,000 miles away so it is more difficult, but he gets together with his son when his son visits the area. We are making plans to visit his son during summer vacation.
I guess he doesn't understand how his daughters make time to visit their brother who lives 3,000 miles away and their mother who lives 2,000 miles away, but they blow him off when he tries to find a time to meet with them. He only lives 20 miles away from both daughters.
Even when they took him out for his birthday, it was on their schedule and not his. He had to rearrange his work schedule in order to finish in time to be able to meet them at their appointed time. He gladly did it for the crumbs of affection they threw his way.
And I do mean crumbs. Literally and figuratively. One made 12 chocolate chip cookies and the other gave him 12 chocolate balls as birthday gifts. He likes chocolate, so he did enjoy the gifts.
I am in the exact same situation
Welcome to the club! Oldest SD(27) got married 5 yrs. ago. There were no hints that I was not welcome to attend and DH made it clear he was not going without me, so I did. Things were weird, awkward, and honestly it did not go well. After the wedding, SD made it clear that she wanted nothing to do with me. DH and I have sent her gifts every birthday and xmas, at first even included her husband but then it was just gifts and texts to SD. All of our efforts have gone unnoticed, he gets "thank yous" and often ignores me.
SD had a baby about a year ago. we were not invited to baby shower, gender reveal etc. She did, however, notified her father of gender and when she went into labor, SD had someone contact DH to let him know. now the drama...
SD sends a picture of newborn baby and DH forwards the photo to me (his wife). One of the aunts on DH's family asked me if we had had the opportunity to go visit the baby since we live about 6 hours away. I responded no, but we did receive a photo - which I attached to our conversation. Next thing, SD is texting DH mad "how dare (your wife) go into your phone and send herself the picture I sent you" DH was mad but chose not to say anything, he did not correct her either. But she did gladly received the gifts we sent prior to the baby's arrival (almost $1,000).
So, we have not met the baby and I doubt we will. Her birthday was just a few days ago and DH has finally got it. No more gifts though he decided to continue the "happy birthday" texts etc.
I do not think your partner should go without you. My DH doesnt always speak up or confront his family but one thing he has made it clear is that we come as a set. He needs to send a message, not sure how, that depends on his personality. I do not agree with the way my DH handles issues but that is his way, not mine and as long I am by his side, I am ok.
It is interesting how…
many of the dysfunctional stories here all have the same components. I have been in a similar situation as well.
We sent cards and gifts for the strepadult daughter and her children for every holiday. We never heard or received any acknowledgement in five years. One day, we discussed and decided enough pretending as though there is a relationship here and stopped sending anything. Pretending the key word. Nothing changed other than us gaining our self respect back and living in our reality.
I really believe we give away our power, self respect, dignity and a slew of negative things when we continue to chase without any resemblance of a real relationship. I feel honestly these step adults get off watching us continue to chase while they abuse, divide, bully, and make others feel not part of. These people will NOT change without mental health intervention so we may as well keep our own and walk away.
More difficult when they are adults...
I am always more patient with children, I feel like they are innocent, easily swayed, brainwashed and I am able to give them the benefit of the dount. But not adults. I tried because I love DH and I really wanted to give it a try but after years of trying (about 5 or 6 of adulting youth) I am finally done. DH and I have been together for over 12 yrs. I met his kids when the youngest was 10. I cannot excuse their behavior anymore.
Thanks for sharing, Step to grown children
I'm glad that your DH stands up for you when attempts are made to exclude you. I wish mine was that brave.
I'm sorry that your DH didn't respond to his daughter that he sent you her baby's picture, but perhaps he realized that those words would incur her wrath. There's no excuse for that though and her wrath was incurred; just you were the target.
I'm glad to hear that you and your DH are no longer sending gifts to her and have stopped attempting to visit her. You can find other uses for your time and money.
^^^What steppedOff said^^^
^^^What steppedOff said^^^
Bravo...
Good point, Mamabearof3.
I have read a little bit about PAS and it does seem to have far-reaching consequences. That's too bad though. I wonder if some of the PAS survivors even realize what happened to them.
I know for a fact that my partner's two sons do understand and try very hard not to let it affect them. However, his daughters seem to want to continue the stale narrative of villifying their father. It's very sad really.
I was too busy after the
I was too busy after the births of all my four children to contact people right away.
Nearly exactly 23 years ago I was having the best sleep of my life after having my son 6 weeks early to be woken up by a nurse say 'your baby is crying (prem babies were in a hospital nursery not by the bed') and their policy was to do one feed a night and mums do the rest. He needed feeding two hourly - so by the time I go to sleep it was nearly time to get up again. I remember going into the TV room on the third night at 2am for a little sob.
Maybe its PAS, but I think its a Combo meal
From your previous posts and this one, it seems like you are still on the backburner of a very combustable stove. The horrendous enmeshment with BM, the PAS, and now your partner is telling you that you are not feeling the pain like he is and you are not being disrespected like he is.
Meanwhile YOU are the one who has ALWAYS been excluded and NOW he wants to party down with HIS family and leave you out in the cold AGAIN.
You asked for thoughts. Sheesh. I could not be with this person and I put up with a LOT. The financial wreckage and continued disregard. Im sorry you are going through this. I do not feel an ounce of sorry for your partner who has allowed all this.
The original poster needs
The original poster needs some counseling. She seems to have low self-worth and low self esteem. Last year or the year before she spent alot of time blaming BM and the sds for most of the issues. She thought she had a prince when obviously she has a frog. This man already showed her who he is numerous times. They have been together for years and my guess is he has no intentions on marrying her. Heck he isn't even suitable for marriage. This man does not respect her, does she really think he loves her? I believe she really knows the truth but doesn't want to accept it. I hope she forgives herself, forgives him, and seeks some much needed counseling.
The OP does not have a frog.
The OP does not have a frog. Frogs are capable of turning into princes. The OP has a toad who has disguised himself by wearing a frog suit.
Princes don't attend functions without their long time partners. Frogs don't stay after the function is over to party with the ex. They return home to their partner. Toads attend and stay.
Excellent points, everyone! Nature vs. Nurture Advice?
I just started going for counselling, but I am torn because my partner feels he will lose his daughters forever if he doesn't dance to their tune. This is why he is tiptoeing around finding a time to visit his new grandchild.
His family is very formal and appointments have to be made; one just can't show up and be a welcomed visitor, like in my family. He is trying to book an appointment with his daughter to visit the baby yet she blows him off (ie. sometime in the next two weeks with no date given). I'm not sure why her siblings already visited her; perhaps she gave them a firm date.
My sons also felt disloyal to their father (another PAS monger) after separation, and were reluctant to meet my previous dating partners (over 1 year, less than 3). However, they were just teenagers at the time and as they grew into adulthood, it became clear what their father was doing. They now laugh about their father's antics and rejoice in the excellent relationship we have. I would say my children are closer to each other than they are to me, but not by much.
I would like my partner to have this with his daughters. He clearly has this with his sons and it breaks my heart to see his daughters shun both him and I.
I believe when he says he feels more disrespected than I do, he means that his daughters know him and are shunning him whereas they don't know me and are shunning me. I look at the fact that he was invited and I was not. That's more disrespectful in my eyes.
I also believe that he means that my sons do not shun me and are thus more respectful to me than his children are to him. The fact that they accept him with open arms is not lost on him either. I have a 100% success rate with my 4; he has a 50% success rate with his 4.
After having a narcissist for an ex-husband, I was not expecting much from my children as my ex-husband groomed them from birth. He denigrated me in their eyes and believe me, the teenage years were rough. It delights me that they have grown up to be such wonderful young men.
The thing is, I have a lot in common with each of my sons and collectively. We can chat for hours about many topics. My partner doesn't have this with his daughters. They do not have any interests in common nor do they make it easy to find common ground when discussing things. They also do not like to divulge much about themselves. He feels he is grasping at straws when conversing with them. The only reason he's interested in them is because they are related to him, I feel.
I have been pulling away emotionally from my partner. I am starting to feel uncomfortable around him as he is not as unselfish as I thought he was originally. I am the kind of person who is all-in and it's difficult to be that way when one is being marginalized.
My partner claims that BM is not a narcissist, but I have my doubts about this. He claims that he and BM raised his children to be wonderful young adults. However, why are SD's not this way? My children could have easily gone this way, but they did not. Is this nature vs. nurture? I don't understand how to answer something like this. Do you?
I am glad you are in
I am glad you are in counseling. I think it will be very helpful. Your significant other needs counseling as well. When there is this strong of a need to be validated, there is something internally wrong, as with your partner. It's normal for people to love their kids, but not to live for them, especially when they are adults, who have, or will be forming their own families. The only reason his adult daughters treat the two of you poorly is because HE allows it. Do you think they would be ok with you and/or their father having functions or events and excluding their partners? Of course not. Not sure if it is nature or nurture but whatever it is, it's toxic. I read something one day that said "Never let a person you didn't cut bleed on you." I agree with that statement 100%. This man and his kids are bleeding all that toxicity on you. You definitely don't need or deserve that because it sounds like you have already been through so much. Life isn't meant to be filled with pain and suffering.
Someone recently said we are not supposed to spend our time trying to repair some damaged things. The person said just like we wouldn't spend our time trying to repair a glass that fell on the floor and broke, we shouldn't be spending our time trying to repair broken people because we are not rehabilitation centers. People have to be willing to do their own work to heal and grow. If you keep trying to pick up a broken person, like a broken glass, you will get hurt over and over again.
Have you watched the YouTube video by Dr. Ramani about narcissistic adult daughters? If not, it may help shed light on what you two are dealing with.
Wow just wow, Movingonisbest!
Your insightful comments are amazing. Your broken glass analogy is excellent. I am going to think long and hard on this. I have a counselling session later this week. I have already brought up my discomfort with my partner as a topic of conversation. This will be my third session. Even though we have lots in common, such as similar career path and similarly aged children, I no longer feel connected to him. I viewed our partnership as a team effort (sometimes one makes sacrifices for the team), but he is more of "every man for himself" kind of person. His philosophy of life doesn't fit well with mine.
The other thought I have is as follows. Let's say his mean girl daughter does invite me to the wedding. Do I really want to go knowing that I only know three people (my partner and his two sons) and that their ex and mother is throwing daggers at me throughout the whole wedding ceremony and reception? I think not. So it would be a hollow gesture because if I were to be invited, I would not go.
I look at relationships as
I look at relationships as being teams too. Unfortunately, for weak toxic men, they want to play on more than one team or when your back is turned, they shoot the ball in their toxic adult kids basketball hoop. That simply doesn't work.
As far as the wedding there shouldn't be a reason for them not to invite you. If you love their dad, and he is happy with you, then they should be happy for him and treat you with courtesy, love, and respect. They don't respect him, but the truth is that he has no self respect to let anyone treat his partner like that, yet call himself a man. He is inadequate and a coward. They all need to grow up. Is it really that hard for them to be polite to other people, especially you? They shouldn't be inviting their father to major events without including you. Unfortunately, the likelihood of them changing is slim.
"He claims that he and BM
"He claims that he and BM raised his children to be wonderful young adults"
Is he having a laugh or something??? They certainly don't sound wonderful, well the daughters don't anyway!!
I'm not going to advise you to leave him (I would if I was you, but you won't) but you should certainly do your own thing, hang with YOUR family and friends.
Do not wait for any crumbs of affection he deigns to toss your way, when he gets a moment from pining after his daughters who have his balls closed very tightly in their purses.