I learnt the hard way , 2 miserable years of keeping my mouth shut. Not rocking the boat , whilst dh ran around after his first family I was literally stuck holding our colicky baby...

One day I just woke up and blew up. No more or get out. No more letting bm dictate our life according to when she needed a babysitter for a date. No more blowing his phone up and demanding immediate answers to schedule changes whilst we are on holiday.  And definitely no more entering each others houses n her ending up crying on his shoulder when her grandads Ill.  

From that day forward it was email only comms. When she trys to go via ss phone its ignored. 

When she pulls schedule changes I simply send her the email with the original agreement.

Drop off is at the end of our drives , the parents remain in the car,  no contact.

She moaned in mediation that I control him , I did laugh. Maybe I do , but he's a pipe and slippers guy, no back bone really and wants an easy life. I arrange everything in our daily lives kids activities etc,he's clueless. And he likes it that way , so who was gonna 'control him ' or rather organise his life bm? The ex or me?

She was with him 14yrs , she knows what he's like so that's the laughable thing . He was bound to look for another strong woman to run the ship !

Rags,  I appreciate the fact that you were able to draw very clear boundaries.  I do think that to an extent, the fact that you are a man (quite more often the men get the shorter end of the custody stick by society and courts.. which makes it tailor made for the new partner to walk into a situation that is hard to fix due to the legal framework and public opinion).. and the fact that you also don't have kids of your own probably factored into why you were able to do that.  And.. you even do admit that there were some dark periods in your relationship early on.. and there were step related issues that while you drew boundaries didn't 100% go away at times.  But, I do agree that we tend to see a lot of repeat behavior and situations on this site.  While some of the details may differ slightly..a lot of themes do carry from one scenario to the next person's scenario.

But, denial and justifcation for current status quo by the stepparents is common.  And, while the bio parent and EX can be problematic.. I also see enough situations where the Step parent is self centered and selfish too.

A super common theme is moving too fast.  Moving in too fast.  Getting pregnant too fast.. Basically rushing on through to the "serious" comittment when there are many red flags present.  Sometimes it happens because people say "why should we maintain 2 homes.. if we combine homes then we save money".  This is attractive to the bio parent who may be strapped with CS.. and overwhelmed caring for their kids during custody.  But.. it also can be attractive to the new partner who may be doing that typical "audition for wife role" where they try to show their partner what a good cook.. housekeeper.. babysitter.. they will be.. and moving in they may see as someone being able to take care of them too.

There are lots of people that don't know how to be alone.. not just financially.. but emotionally.. they fall in love with a stump.. and find people that sort of fit a general category.. and then they think they can make them the person they want.  And... these parents know how to reel them in.. love bombing so to speak.. and everybody's pheremones get jacked up and it all seems like such a good idea.  BUT there are other people in the mix.. Exes.. Skids.. and if boundaries have not been in place before.. the new person setting them may have a hard time.. and for the bio parent.. it's tough to walk those expectations/habits back.

But.. why stay in the toxic?  People have blind spots for their own participation in the drama.  People are selfish and they want their happily ever after and think if it were only for X that it would be great.. and they spend a lot of time justifying why that external force is the issue...  Then there is the fallout of rushing in.. the people who have bought homes.. signed long leases.. had children with the "mistake".. it's difficult to unwind those things.. and status quo is easier than making the big change.. for a lot of reasons.. insecurity, laziness.selfishness. fear  etc.. 

And.. sometimes toxic situations are like the frog in the pot of water.. you don't necessarily feel the full impact all at once.. you wear your optimistic rose colored glasses going in.. and sometimes it's the death of a thousand cuts when you realize you are up to your chest in the cesspool and being boiled in that pot that you now look back and say to yourself.. "well.. yeah.. I do recall it was getting hot in here"... 

And then there is the alternative for people.  The older women get (more in this camp).. the more difficult it is to find a good mate.. I mean.. lots of the great ones are snapped up under 30.. and so as each year goes by the pool becomes smaller and smaller.. and the desire to dive back in.. if you aren't inclined to live a solitary/uncoupled life.. really diminishes.. because there just isn't a lot out there to look forward to.

And I see the same thing, Rags. I try to remember that our perspective as old-timers means we've seen this over and over again, yet some of these people are going through it for the first time. As you say, "tolerate once..."  I agree that once the situation is clear, it's time to lay down the law and deliver an ultimatum (expecting improvement), successfully disengage from any skid issues, or it's time to depart. 

But you've seen it as have I - so many will post their sad saga, will get good advice, and will then reply with "But...but...but" excuses why they can't demand to be treated with respect and full partnership. Or they ignore the solid advice offered and will only respond to others who are sympathetic.  If that's all they want, fine ... this is a site to "vent" after all. But I now easily recognize those posters and won't waste my time responding after my initial comment. 

Fundamentally, I think people stay in these toxic relationships for three primary reasons - they are financially tied, they are emotionally bankrupt, or they've had children with these already-proven-to-be-bad parents.  That's why I always advise people to keep their finances/property separate, NOT marry and wait to have more children.

As you know, many don't listen. 

Well, I'm a Steptalk OG as well.  I have seen the same stories and same advice recycled endlessly over the years.  For myself, I acknowledge that I'm stuck.  I'm not ready to embrace "Loneliness with Dignity" yet.  So I put up with a bunch of BS to get **some** good things out of my current situation.

For me, my "but only if" thing is getting off the road for work.  Once that happens, I plan on taking plenty of time to re-assess and see if there was any point in tolerating a less-than-ideal relationship, if it is time to really focus on an exhaustive search for a quality partner, or if it is time to accept "Loneliness with Dignity."

Some of us were not raised by healthy parents. We have never experienced a healthy, pleasant relationship, so we don't know how to insist on one. People raised in unhealthy families are programmed to think that when they're not treated with dignity and respect, it's their fault for lacking some special ingredient. They don't realize that they are worthy of being totally loved and respected. Broken people marry broken people. At least that's what happened in my case. 

I endured the crap and stayed with my DH for so long because I thought that 1) one day I'll get it right and therefore be good enough; 2) I should stay in case I'm wrong about DH not loving me; and, 3) I stayed with the hope that perhaps DH would have an epiphany on how much he's hurting me. Yes, that sounds insane, but when you're rasied by two fucking insane personality disordered parents, you get programmed to believe that you are inferior, lacking and definitley not as worthy and deserving of love, validation and respect as everyone else. It takes a long time and lots of therapy to reprogram oneself. It isn't simple to just implement boundaries for people rasied in toxic families. We were taught that if we did, we'd lose loved ones. 

There's also the "death by a thousand cuts" issue. When a SM speaks to an incident, it doesn't sound like a big deal at all. The SM knows this and starts questioning herself over something that most people wouldn't bat an eyelash over. The SM then gets caught up in chastizing herself for making a big deal out of nothing. It may take quite of a few of the death-by-a-thousand-cuts incidents for the SM to realize it's indicative of a shitty pattern/dynamic. 

There's emotion too. Just because some of us are married to fuckheads, doesn't meant we're not madly in love with them. I fell madly in love with my DH and by the time I realized that I was up shit creek without a paddle, I was madly in love with my DH and married to him. Leaving is way easier said than done. 

I'm not saying I still have that mindset, but I figured I could give some perspective from a person who was raised by broken people. Broken people rasie broken people. For some of those broken people, it doesn't even occur to them that they can set boundaries or deserve better. 

It really is a completely different mindset between a person who was raised with love and respect and a person who wasn't. 

While there are people who cannot wrap their heads around why someone would stay with these Disney, enmeshed bio parents, there are people who were raised in a way that they cannot wrap their heads around how someone can implement boundaries and require respect. While staying with these bio parents is foreign concept for you, being with a healthy person is a foreign concept for others. People raised by toxic parents don't know HOW to require better. They know they want to and they have heard all the "shoulds," but they don't know HOW to go about it.

I could go on and on. It's not simple to answer. It's many factors.

I suppose you would consider my DH to be one of those. In the beginning, he was a Disney Dad who tiptoed around BioHo because of her very real threats to withhold the skids. So DH did what he could to NOT rock the boat because seeing his kids and remaining in their lives was THE most important thing to him. 

Enter Aniki.

I saw a hardworking and loving man with standards and integrity who was doing his damndest to keep his kids in his life and stay relevant. My DH pretty much sees everything in black and white. I do not. My input, me disengaging, my willingness to help.... all contributed to Death of a Disney Dad and DH finally being able to see there were different ways to handle things without compromising his integrity. 

So while he may have started out as what you call a "ball-less wonder", he did not stay that way. 

Nor do I consider the skids to be "failed family dregs". They didn't choose BioHo for their mother. And despite her countless attempts at PAS and step-PAS and her endless bag of stupid 'Ho tricks, they have all turned out to be hardworking, loving adults. Like their father.

I want to second what folks said above about others lacking their own understanding about what a healthy relationship should be, hoping things will get better, needing more time to mentally prepare to separate, things being "good enough" now versus the alternative, etc. We also can't forget that some folks are in abusive situations that have them scared, confused, and feeling worthless. Every story sounds the same to you because, after 13 years, you're going to see/hear the same types of stories over and over again.

But remember Rags - that's the point of STalk. It's meant to be a place to vent and seek advice. It's generally a starting place for people to work from Point A to Point B, and Point B isn't always going to be leaving. Also, often, circumstances for people just suck and it's outside the control of the people in the situation. They will tolerate some bad because the good is great, and the bad can't or won't go away because court systems suck, some exes are toxic and manipulative, and mental health care access for kids is abysmal in many places.

You had the privilege of marrying the mother of a child who had a *really* strong - and reasonable - case for obtaining full custody. Even if Sperm Clan fought her, the court was always positioned in your DW's favor. Imagine how much more stressed your marriage and life would have been had your DW been given minimal custody of your SS. You constantly having to watch SS be subjected to horrible conditions regularly while the courts said told DW that she didn't deserve more time with her son. With Sperm Clan constantly bad mouthing her and you. With SS believing that because it's hard *not* to believe it when your primary family tells you it and the court reinforces it.

Would you leave your DW, knowing the kind of woman she is, if this was her reality with her kid? Because that scenario is the one many, MANY on here live. What you see as "ball-less wonder" is someone who desperately doesn't want to give up on someone who got shafted and is paying a price they shouldn't have to. 

You shouldn't have to walk in someone else's shoes to empathize with them. We're all guilty of making snap judgments of others and their situations, but this isn't the first time you've made a post like this, Rags. Perhaps as others need to work on building boundaries and building themselves up, you should work on understanding why people don't do what you *think* you would do and learning to empathize with their situations to help them versus judging them when you haven't been in their shoes and your step situation comparatively seems like it was a cake walk.

"Never ask survivors of narcissistic relationships this question."

I figured I'd share this because the question to never ask applies to any shitty relationship. 

This video will explain how it feels to be asked that question.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VX48i_Z21dA

On this site I indulge in enjoying the biting, blunt, angry comments the same way that I occasionally indulge in sugar and potato chips, it's an outlet to vent and let off steam with people that have experienced the reality of step-life challenges but probably not a good mindset to live in all the time. Those who haven't lived it have lots of opinions, judgements and no knowledge.

With that said I find the irony of your comment to be hilarious! "Tolerate it once, shame on the toxic." You've been here ---13--- years. If you don't like it then why are you here? If life is too precious to deal with other people's crap then why not leave steptalk?

While I generally agree with your statement "we see the same stories and same issues over and over again". I have to disagree with the rest, in general.

Maybe you are fatigued and having a tough time with the posts that seem like they are repetetive. Although we are individuals, and each situation is a little different, we are all kind of having the same problems. And luckily we have Steptalkers like YOU who have YEARS of experience to draw from. At 8 plus years, I come here to lend an (ear/eye/brain) to those that need it, in honor of those that lent them when I needed it. You have much to give as far as your humor, insight and empathy.

Maybe you just need a break...

"Tolerate it once, shame on the toxic. Tolerate it twice, maybe a coincidence. A third time... shame on us, and it is our fault for tolerating it."

Yet your DW still engages with her family that you think are losers and your SS still engages with his Sperm Clan family and they are losers...so isn't your DW and SS just as guilty of this?  Does it make you think less of them because they still foster those relationships?

I think the thing I find more frustrating than the repetitive themes in the CAUSE of the problems of steplife is the reluctance by the stepparent to take steps that will fix or mitigate their problems.. and that may be up to and including leaving the relationship.  Because all we can really do is control our own actions and reactions.  We have precious little control over what the EX and skids may do or say.. we have only  moderate control over our spouses.. especially when you have an ex involved that is the particular brand of toxic that wreaks havok on your home when ruffled.

A lot of times on this site, posters will present problems.. and then people will make well meaning suggestions on how you might fix it.. and the poster has 1000 and one reasons why they can't or won't do any of it.  and they won't leave.. they will just stay and be miserable.  sometimes their complaints are legit.. others they are just as selfish as they portray the other people involved!

Like the SAHMs that complain about watching the skids when there are legit financial constraints that would come into play.. their spouse couldn't pay all the bills AND child care for their bios that aren't the sp's.... so the only way to fix it is if sp goes to work.. to pay their share of bills.. right?  but no... can't do that.. 

Or the person having a problem sharing their home with other people.. and maybe not even with reasonably normal kids... or can't stand that their baby won't be the first.  So.. people suggest they work on their own issues.. get therapy etc.. but "they don't have time" "don't have money".. etc.. 

and, I get it.. there sometimes are situations that we just have to grin and bear for some duration and the prescription to fix the issue might have more side effects than we want.  

But.. resistance to doing other hard things is a big problem for some people.. and why they remain stuck in the same point... endlessly hashing out their annoyance with the minutae.

So.. what is the saying.. "pick your hard".. it's hard to watch your skids.. but it's also hard to have to get a job and if you have kids.. put THEM in daycare too.. pick your hard.

It's hard to feel depressed about your situation.. but it's also hard to go to therapy and do the deep dive and accept you might have some part in things.. so pick your hard.

It's hard to be in a relationship with someone who is a disney parent.. and puts you last. .but it's hard to be alone too.. pick your hard.

I think it's a rule of human history we must have "repeats." Often when we look back at history we see one group of humans discovered something, but it gets lost and then rediscovered by another group later. So with steplife there are many repeats as well. The smart ones among us will eventually learn from our mistakes and grow. A few wise ones will learn from the mistakes of others. So I guess it's because we're just humans being silly hopeful desperate loving struggling crazy sincere humans. It's the way of the world. It takes time but we learn eventually