How and when to talk to your stepkid about bio parents...
Is it appropriate to talk to your stepchild about their bio parent? Bear with me as I try to explain a very complex situation in a couple of paragraphs.
My SD is 12 years old- a young 12, IMO. We make a point in our house to not speak badly of her mother to her (a common rule for most of us, I would think), but she is getting older and I am wondering if it is ok to start pointing out certain behaviors or inconsistencies.
For example: SD consistently displays stress/anxiety at displeasing her mother in any way. We are constantly consoling and making it better. She cries/panics if her shoes get dirty- I can not tell you how many times I have washed shoes and bleached shoelaces. Or we buy her shoes specifically for play and to get dirty (that are never returned to our house). She cries if she can't find something before she leaves our house because her mother said to bring it with her- we assure her we will help her find it or bring it to her if we don't find it before she leaves. She cries if her mother is outside waiting to pick her up and she doesn't get out the door fast enough. This list goes on....Can I talk to SD about this- directly? I have of course questioned why she is stressed/crying, but that seems to stress her out more.
Or when she is sent to us in clothes that are too small and I then go out and buy her clothes that fit, only to have them never come back. We have asked BM repeatedly to return certain items- and eventually they are- after SD has outgrown them. Can I ask SD to bring her clothes back? I don't want to drag her into any back and forth crap with BM, but clothes are getting expensive. Plus we pay BM for half of anything she buys (we get receipts but I've seen very few of these items).
I do not want to add any more stress to this child's plate, but I am beyond frustrated at the amount of control her mother wields. She is 12 years old and her only opinions start with "Mama says..." It's not fair to SD and it's not fair to us. Not to mention I fear the long term effects of all of this. Her mother already has her college and career path picked out and SD stresses over grades because of it. Also, I am embarrassed to admit, bottling it up as caused me to lose sh** a couple of times and said some rather snide things that I KNOW SD picked up on.
I am constantly told "she will see it eventually"...but I fear the manipulation runs too deep.
PS- DH is a doer, not a talker. He will keep doing whatever he needs to do to keep peace. He is fine with me talking to SD and will help/be supportive, but talking is not his strong suit.
All I can offer is to send
All I can offer is to send her back in the clothes she arrived in to avoid the things that you buy drifting to her mothers'. When she arrives, everything she has on her goes into a bag to be returned with her thus avoiding anything being forgotten or anything getting dirty that BM wants to keep pristine.
Personally, I wouldn't talk to your SD about her mother (not your place, to start with) but I would stress that the rules are different in your home and that you don't mind her getting her shoes dirty (for instance). Don't criticize her mother. This poor child has more than enough on her plate. Instead, concentrate on helping her relax in your home.
Can your DH take her to see a therapist to help her cope with her stress?
I don't disagree and that is
I don't disagree and that is exactly what I'm struggling with. I feel it's really dangerous ground to tread on.... but it's becoming more and more tempting... and, I fear, necessary.
I do like the idea of stressing different rules in our house. We don't really do that... so anything we tell her is ok- she calls her mom to ask first. Ugh
we haven't addressed the idea of a therapist in awhile. It would likely be questioned. We recommended it a couple years ago to help SD transition with our marriage and move, etc. It was shot down- not necessary.
Next time she tries to call
Next time she tries to call her mother, take the phone gently from her and explain that it's Dad's rules in your house and that has nothing to do with her mother's. This should never have been allowed in the first place. It's none of BM's business what goes on in your home. I mean, I'm pretty sure that what you are asking your SD to do is pretty ordinary things and she should be able to accept that(how will she ever survive as a teen if she calls her mother every 5 minutes to ask for permission?). It's not like you're taking her hang-gliding, is it?
Good point. I am admittedly
Good point. I am admittedly new to this- all of it. Marriage, children... my husband is not a disciplinarian. I don't mean that in a critical way- he is just very mellow, even keeled person. Having said that, I hestitate to take the reins on things like this because (1) I have no idea what I'm doing and (2) I don't want to be lumped into the evil stepmom category.
And yeah- stuff like spending the night at her cousin's house. And it's not just permission- a lot of times she calls to verify that what we are telling her is correct. One night work schedules got changed unexpectedly, and so we had keep her overnight (she was supposed to be going to her Mom's). So, she called her Mom to verify because she wouldn't take her father's word for it.
Oh, how I could go on....
Your husband
MUST reign this in.
He doesnt want to be the "mean dad" therefore anything you do will make you the "evil stepmom". He is setting you up for failure, by his failure to step up his parenting game. Children must learn about boundaries and repercussions. Her calling her mother for "permission" and "verification" underlines the fact that her father is not considered a parent. He needs to do this, and establish himself as the authority in his home.
He doesnt have to be a hardcore disciplinarian - he can measure the stength with easygoing. Firmness. When she insists on calling her mother for every little thing- he can firmly say "no", period. No is a complete sentence. Then if she rebels, take the phone and elctronics away.
The mother, she will push back when she gets word that your husband is getting a backbone. This is a crucial time - for SD. Pretty soon it will be too late.
New to all this - well its a major learning curve the first few years. I am almost 6 years in.
There are two separate issues
There are two separate issues here - the one about the clothes - and I agree with what Winterglow said about this.
However, the other issue - about SD being afraid of displeasing her mother - I do think that 12 is old enough to have a frank conversation about this. I would have been so relieved if at the age of 12, someone from outside my home (and my neglectful parents) had talked to me sensitively and made me understand that my parents did not have the last word on everything.
I would try and find out why she is so afraid of her mother - is she just a naturally anxious girl? And I'd try and tell her that it is ok to not agree and abide by her mother in everything. In particular, choices about her future life, college etc. You do not have to talk bad about her mother, but I think it would be a kindness to the girl to help her see that she doesn't have to allow herself to be dominated by her mother so much. She is allowed her own opinions, feelings etc on stuff. I would have been so happy if someone had told me that, at 12.
I think I was grouping them
I think I was grouping them together bc I think the clothes issue could easily turn into perceived slight against her mother. We haven't done clothes exchange ever- 5 years now. I think to start now would start a fight and ignite other petty battles. I also really hate to send the child home in old clothes that are one and two sizes too small. Apparently this clothes issue is extremely common. Who knew!
I suppose it all boils down
I suppose it all boils down to how willing you are to subsidize BM's budget by buying clothes for her home ...
It is ok to point out irrational behavior
First you should try to get her to tell you why she is so stressed. If she won't, you can tell her what you have observed. And you can explain to her why her mother's behavior is irrational and not ok. You can explain to her that she deserves to be treated better, because getting shoes dirty while playing does not make her a bad person or deserving punishment. I know this opinion won't be popular here as most people (not just on this website but in general) feel if it's "not your place" you should say nothing. I think that's wrong. It is ok, even a moral obligation to call out injustice. If you stand by and watch a 12 year old be emotionally abused, you are complying. It IS your business.
One example - my ex-H was similar with my kids. Not quite as bad as what you are describing, but he was constantly lecturing them about imaginary fingerprints on the wall (or real...who cares!) when they were little, finding fault with everything they did; nothing could be done right or fast enough, etc. In the 3-5 years leading up to our divorce, I started to shut him down, tell him off and put him in his place. I would talk to our kids about the fact they should expect to be treated more respectfully, that even if they made a mistake that is not the appropriate reaction. Nothing changed after we got divorced other than I was suddenly aware that the conventional wisdom was not to "badmouth" the ex. Guess what - if making sure my kids' barometer of how they should be treated and how relationships should work would suffer due to my silence and haste to be sure I followed the guide to parenting after divorce, I was not going to do it. When ex-H chose to move across the country with his girlfriend, his stupid parents and POS sister still acted like he was father of the year and a great guy - I did not allow that bullshit. I call it like I see it. Obviously this situation was different as clearly it was my kids, my business, but in the case of your SD, it is no different from seeing anyone being mistreated. Speak up. That is everyone's business.
Yes! Thank you! This is
Yes! Thank you! This is exactly what I was thinking! I just could not verbalize it! I can't stand by and just watch this happen- it's heartbreaking and I worry about how it will effect her development and adult life. It is just such a delicate balance. To avoid "badmouthing", I try to talk to her about things in general terms, but I don't think she is quite making the connections to her relationship with her mother. I think it's time to get a little more direct.
In general, I think direct
In general, I think direct statements about her mother's behavior (even if it's not disparaging) needs to come from her father. My DH was a little too blunt sometimes about it with SS, but he did not hesitate to point out BM's bullshit.
I, on the other hand, tried to talk around the issue. I'd say things like, "You know, SS, it's really okay for you to have your own feelings about stuff." or, "Hmmm, maybe you'd better check with your dad about whether that's how it really happened", etc.
I want to add. We failed at preventing my SS from being alienated from DH and from becoming the hot mess of a human being that he is now at age 20. I too thought I could have influence on my SS when he was 12 - nope. The mother-child bond is strong and a sensitive and anxious kid like your SD (and my SS) will have a very hard time standing up to a controlling BM and extracting themselves from the enmeshment.
If I could go back, I'd make 90% less effort to try to help my SS. It was a waste of my time and energy.
I think I currently do mostly
I think I currently do mostly as you did- talk around the issue.
As is probably true for most of us here, I could write a novel on this woman. I know I have a hard road ahead and I knew that going into this. I made a choice to take this on with no expectation of it ever getting any better- likely, worse. I will not at all be surprised if in 10 years I will find I have also wasted precious time and energy on a lost cause. However, I think I will regret NOT trying more.
I suppose that's true, at
I suppose that's true, at least I know I tried. But a stepparent, or even the other bio parent, really can't undo the damage caused by a mother like this, especially with a child as sensitive as your SD is. It is hard to watch though.
At this point, I no longer spend any energy worrying about SS, so you might have that to look forward to!
Just my opinion.
I didn't read everyone's post but this is what I've done with my SD. (See my first blog post from the other for details on whats going here)
SD13 (today is her bday!) and I had a conversation a few months ago. We were in the car and she brought up the falling out between myself and BM. I gave her some details which she was aware of half of it anyways. SD is a mature for her age. She understands who her mother is etc.
All I really said to not "bash" BM (as she really never comes up in convo in our house or around the skids) was that don't let her make you feel guilty for decisions she has made. I told SD it's not that she doesn't love you but don't let her make you feel less about yourself.
BM has done this before.. the whole guilt trip stuff. My SD Understands these things though. I think it's ok to address these things to build up a child self esteem and self worth.
Facts are neither good nor
Facts are neither good nor bad. They are merely facts.
Kids need facts to understand their blended family situations. Particularly when they have a toxic manipulative PASing parent to deal with. The more of the facts kids understand, the better they are able to protect themselves from a manipulative parent.
We landed on this model with SS-27 fairly early. He was ~6-7. His mom and I married the week before he turned 2yo and the SpermClan manipulative bullshit had already started. They pulled all kinds of toxic evil shit with that baby when they had him during SpermClan visitation times.
As SS got older and the more he understood he was able to shut down their manipulative shit when he was in SpermLand. They hated that.
We would sit down with him and review the CO to explain why something that the SpermClan was trying to manipulate out of us couldn't happen. As an example, this helped him to understand that the SpermClan's efforts to stick his mom with the label of being evil, taking money away from and food out of the mouthe of his three younger also out of wedlock SpermIdiot spawned half sibs by two other baby mamas mouths was bullshit.
As he progressed into his teens we would regularly find him deep in the file cabinets reviewing Custody/Visitation/Support related records. He listened to the official recordings of the court hearings, listened to the SpermGrandHag ranting profanely at his mom on the tapes we saved from our answering maching, read the CO, the supplemental county rules, state regulations, Journals of the toxic vitriolic crap his SpermGrandHag slung at his mom, the Sperm Idiot's arrest records, the marriage and divorce records of his SpermIdiot's brief marriage to a 16yo to avoid a statutory rape charge when the SpermIdiot swore up and down to SS that he had never been married, etc, etc, etc........
When SpermGrandHag would steal SS's clothes because he didn't need name brand and it wasn't fair that his younger half sibs could not have those things and send SS home in flea market crap clothing we billed the Hag for the clothes she stole. Those records were in the files too. And made a huge impression on SS since he remembered how they would make him feel bad about his nice things when he was on visitation. We never let anything slide as far as toxic SpermClan bullshit was concerned. If they were manipulative, we brought the pain. One interesting memory from those times was when SpermGrandHag sent SS a studio pic of the three younger half sibs with them wearing several pieces of SS's clothing that he could not find when he got back from a visitation.
When SS was in his late teens even his SpermIdiot would steal his clothes. On later visitations the SpermIdiot would forget that he had stolen the clothes from SS and would wear them. SS forced his dad to strip off his stolen clothes on several occasions. SpermIdiot did not like that much. But by then SS was in zero tolerance mode with the shallow and polluted end of his gene pool.
Kids should have the facts. After all, the facts are all about the lives of the kids.
If neither parent is toxic, there really are no facts that anyone needs to fear.
Poor SD. Life is already hard
Poor SD. Life is already hard enough with two sets of parents.
I experience some of these things with SS6 too. He would be sent in clothes that don't match, worn out and/or too small. But SO would get pictures of him wearing expensive, nice clothes looking like a kid clothing model on the days BM had him. SS would also get upset he couldn't bring a toy he loved with him when it was time to go to his mom's. I spoke up to my SO and told him that was really hard for me when I had step parents as a kid. I think whatever we buy him is his, so he can bring it where he wants. The clothes and toys shouldn't be looked at as something that serves the parent. They're for him to enjoy, for his life to be better. I think it's acceptable to ask SD to bring back something of hers to your house so that there's more of the nice things at both places. I don't think it has to go through BM, especially since she's showing she won't do it anyway.
In terms of the anxiety, I feel being honest with kids shows them and teaches them respect. They'll respect you more if you're honest in a matter-of-fact, tactful way. It's ok to say "I'm sorry you're so worried. You should have to be so stressed over something like this. You're a good kid." I'm sure SD already sees the difference in how much worse her BM is. She's still learning how to articulate herself. I would encourage her to talk about how she feels. Let her know you don't want her to feel upset and you want to help. Unfortunately.... we can't control BM so this could be just part of SD's reality.
A few things...
Clothes, easy to sort. Buy some for at your house. Let her wear those in your company but she changes at yours into clothes from her Mum's before she goes back. We do this.
Regarding Mum, to avoid openly being critical, any time you see anxiety, explain that you sense some things may be upsetting her & reassure that you are her friend & she can talk to you or Dad any time. You have to be prepared to coach her through situations though, knowing you cannot necesarily fix some of what causes her anxiety as she is too young to 'fix' her Mum's issues. Dad would need to be prepared for confrontation with Mum should anything major come up. Right now, you can be a friend, guide, listener, help her understand we each have different preferences etc & sometimes we unfortunately have to live with some things we may prefer not to. As she hits teen mode she may build confidence to challenge her Mum. She will certainly see things more clearly.
Keep being caring & supportive so that she lnows she has somewhere she can vent.