OT - Pregnancy in the work place
Hey People,
I am wondering if anyone has ever experienced this before. From the moment I told my boss I was pregnant things have not been great. His reaction was a look a dread and a huff. Eventually followed by congrats of sorts. Anyway, when it came to discussing maternity leave it did not go well. My work is small so no FMLA, the do not offer disability, I would have had to take it out on my own. I asked about this years ago and was told not to worry. When I mentioned that, the boss said he probably meant I was not going to get fired.
Anyway, I pushed back on what they offered me, being laid off claiming not enough work and I will be able to collect. I pushed back because I know for a fact that GM at my work got his full salary and benefits when he had a medical issue and was out for months. They do not know I know that. I tried to stand up for myself and things got a little loud and I left for the day that day. They came back with unemployment still but I get my yearly bonus early and it is quite generous. I accepted it and just figured if I should just take it and not deal.
My boss still is extremely standoffish with me and I can honestly say never makes eye contact with me when we walk past one another. I had a fender bender on the day at lunch and the seatbelt pulled tight on my stomach so I went to er to make sure all was ok. DH met me there. My boss never even asked if I was ok when I returned the next day. Some of my responsibilities were also taken away from me.
They never really said how long I have to be out before I lose my job. I have been told 6 weeks, 8 weeks, 10 weeks, not till after the new year. It is all over the place. There was an email from a consultant about speaking to an outside firm and said I would no longer be with the company but my boss corrected that with that I will be on maternity leave for 10 weeks. Also, my insurance has been switched to DH as he now works where I work as well.
Curious if all this sounds like I am being set up to not come back. He literally will not look at me, boss used to say have a great weekend to me and good evening. He does not talk to me at all. I have tried some small chit chat asking how his wife is and what not to get back to a better place but I gave up. Anyone else ever experiences this?
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I have not dealt with this
I have not dealt with this personally but I can see it happening. My company is small as well, we have 12 employees. If I was to go out for 10 weeks we would fold. There is literally no one else that could fill my shoes within the company. I strategically planned my hysterectomy so that I would miss as few days as possible and worked from home in a state that I never should have been doing anything important- the Percocet was flowing! LOL
I guess my point is, would he be willing to hire a temp and have you do some things remotely with the baby at home? If not, and if you aren't willing to make that sacrifice (which I wouldn't blame you for a second! I stayed home for 4 years when my kids were little and wouldn't trade it for the world) you may need to plan for this job terminating your employment. Let them fire you. Don't quit. Make sure it is writting when you will return- let them tell you no!
If I can get a new job
If I can get a new job working from home that would be the only option for me to stay at home. There is not way we can live on DH salary for several years. I still have student loans. Plus I want to work, I paid alot for my education and have two degrees that I really want to keep using.
A temp couldn't really fill in for me. What I do it can take several weeks to get up to speed and to be able to actually do the job. Things are set up for me to be out. Funny thing is I can work remote but they will not allow me to. I know this already because well they said not but also when the schools shut down I was not allowed to work from home with DS11.
I have asked for things in writing but still have not gotten anything. It is so awkward my boss and I have traveled together for tradeshows and had a good working relationship. He will not even look at me unless I have a question and go into his office. It is almost like I did something wrong by getting pregnant and standing up for myslef to be treated equal.
Make sure to keep copies,
Make sure to keep copies, read receipts on emails, everything.
6 weeks is the usual standard because that is when daycare accepts babies. Some private party babysitters will go earlier.
Let them fire you is going to be the big thing so you can at least collect unemployment. Hopefully they won't fight you on that.
Unfortunately, it does not
Unfortunately, it does not sound like they are obligated to pay you.. and despite what they may have paid the GM in the past, you honestly may not be valuable enough to them for them to provide you the same treatment. I'm not sure what your role is but it's not unusual to give different treatment depending in small companies. Also, you don't know the exact details of what went on during the medical issue.. whether the GM was still performing part of their job remotely etc... You really have to see your own situation judged on your own merits and based on your own agreement. It does not sound like there was a meeting of the minds with you and your boss over what exactly would happen if you were to have a child. He thought that he was being nice and letting you know you would not lose your job.. and you thought he was offering some sort of paid time off.
You have now worked out the best they seem to be willing to do. It's not great.. but more than they are obligated.. so for that I guess you should be thankful. Small companies can't always offer the same benefits due to the high cost and difficulty it might present in their operations... By the way, you may not be aware but FMLA does not require PAID leave.. only unpaid. Some companies allow for paid leave.. but it's not required.. even with companies over 12 employees.. in fact.. it's reallyl just preserving that you have a job to come back to. your employer isn't even obligated to do that really since they are so small.
As far as the attitude.. it is not totally uncommon. I'm sure you can see how losing a person in a large organization is going to mean more work for people. More work for your manager to re arrange your duties. more work on your coworkers etc.. it just is a fact of life. It's unfortunate, but the fact that women have children puts them at a natural disadvantage in the workplace. The percieved need for "special treatment" to take time off with their child is a special accomodation. Now some companies like mine are progressive and offer leave paid for both men and women.. and people who are adopting etc.. but not all companies do that.. nor are they required to offer the paid leave.
If you like the company you work for and your job. I think the best way to deal with it is hold up your end of the bargain. Do your job.. be available and willing to do your work.
If you are inclined to cause problems, you could report the situation to the unemployment board since they are basically faking that situation....but you won't get paid then.
You could look for another job.. but you will also be unlikely to find one that will provide you with those benefits for this pregnancy.
Hopefully you can find that with time that things work out anyway and your boss gets past his concerns
I know the GM didn't work
I know the GM didn't work while he was out. He was nit capable. I however am but is what itbis at this point. Unfortunately I know way too much crap about how people have been treated there and how it is a case by case thing. I know small companies are like that. I do know FMLA is not paid.
Just getting a weird vibe they are setting me up to not come back. Maybe hormones i am not sure. I have been asked multiple times now when my last day will be and I keep saying I am working up until I am in labor. My husband works where I work so I want him near so we can get to a hospital. If i stay home and wait for him to come get me and than go to a hospital it would be over an hour.
Just have a weird vibe.
I just found out about a guy
I just found out about a guy my husband knows... he gave his employer what amounted to 6 months notice.. he was going to work for another company next season.. the current season runs through October.. so he would start with the other company next April.
Well... lo and behold, they manufactured some "violation of policy" and have fired him. I will say that this company pays SUBSTANTIAL season completion bonuses.. So now with less than 2 months left.. they are saving tens of thousands of dollars.. (one year my husband got a 75K bonus.. again.. it's a significant part of their pay structure). Instead of being grateful they were given months to recruit someone new.. they fired him.
Sometimes too much notice is really not to your benefit because they have alonger time to figure out how to "screw you over".
It's a small company and I know you wanted to know if they were going to be willing to pay you anything for maternity leave.. but now in hindsight, it's clear that is something you should have gotten "in writing" before you accepted the job. Now, it's just subject to the adhoc decision about how much they really feel they need to retain you. I'm guessing the GM had more "value" intrinsically and may have had much longer history? Idon't know.. but they aren't prepared to offer you that same deal.
Honestly, they might decide to replace you.. or hire a temp depending upon how long you want to be out. Maybe not to do your job.. but to do other tasks so other experienced workers can do your job while you are out. They might decide that person is a good fit and not bring you back.. that is the risk.
Sure, you may be hyper sensitive, your boss might have other things on their mind. And.. yeah.. they might be a bit irritated that they are going to have to figure out how to deal with your absence. I might just always keep in the back of your mind.. that you might have to figure out a new job.. so I would plan accordingly.
I have planned accordingly.
I have planned accordingly. We have some money set aside, I already had my resume out there and had a few interviews but I am too honest and told a couple I was expecting on the like 3rd interview. At least I am getting interest and getting my feet wet with the whole interview process again.
They could possibly hire a temp, I just do not see that happening as it will take them longer to get up to speed than to just have me come back. There are tasks I do in the company that no else can do, but they could outsource it. I have been with them for going on 7 years now. What is funny when I got married the females in the office took me to lunch and gave me a gift card. Nothing has been done like that for me having a baby. I do not really care but just find it extremely odd. I did not think having a baby here would be so taboo. I feel like I am stuck in the 50's or 60's.
Trust me when I say I look out for myslef and my family for sure. I know they like having my husband work here now and are realy happy with him, so maybe they will think before they do anything because they let me go eventaully DH will leave too. Of course when it is feasible.
Unfortunately, it does not
dupe
I believe pregnancy is
I believe pregnancy is considered a "disability" under the Americans with Disabilities Act (ADA) and your employer is expected to provide you with "reasonable accomodation". Being paid while on leave is not a "reasonable accommodation", but there may be precedent if they have provided that to another employee. A better approach might be to do some research on what a "reasonable accommodation" for your unpaid leave would be (for that the FMLA, which allows up to 18 weeks of unpaid leave for a pregnancy, I believe) could be used as a benchmark and then put your request for that accomodation in writing.
You could contact the Equal Employment Opportunity Commission (EEOC) if you wanted to push on the discrimination issue, but I suspect that is a lengthy process and won't solve your immediate problem.
It's not, I googled it, but
It's not, I googled it, but they still can't discriminate about it:
https://www.eeoc.gov/pregnancy-discrimination
Here's another one. The
Here's another one. The pregnancy itself is not a disability, but the "impairments" that result from pregnancy are considered a disability. This document indicates that granting additional leave is a "reasonable accomodation" under the law.
https://www.eeoc.gov/laws/guidance/fact-sheet-small-businesses-pregnancy....
I've never gone through
I've never gone through anything like this (I had the good fortune to be able to stay home when DD was born), but I've also never worked anywhere that offered either paid maternity leave or company-paid disability insurance. The US is not known for its generous maternity policies.
Do you think that your boss's new attitude might be a result of this: "I tried to stand up for myself and things got a little loud and I left for the day that day." When a business doesn't offer paid leave, I don't think there's anything wrong with trying to negotiate for something. However, I can see where a supervisor's opinion of an employee could change if that negotiation became loud or contentious and the employee left.
You probably won't have issues, but be aware that to collect unemployment you're supposed to be ready and able to work. My state requires that you be actively looking for another job and you're required to keep a log of all the calls you made and job applications you submitted (although I don't think anyone actually asks to see that stuff), and you have to certify weekly that you're actively looking for a job (or participating in a job training program). Maybe it's different if there's a temporary work shortage at your company, though.
In your situation, I would probably be inclined to look for another job, for a couple reasons. First, it would be difficult to work for a boss who is being standoffish. If you think that would continue after your maternity leave, it's probably time to make a change. Second, if the company is small enough to be exempt from FMLA, I'm not sure how wise it is to have both you and DH working for the same small company. If they had financial difficulties, or problems with one of you, that wouldn't be a great situation. Finally, you might as well be prepared in case they are setting you up to not come back.
I'm sorry you're going through this. It's hard enough being pregnant and dealing with everything else it entails without having to deal with an unfortunate work situation as well. I hope it all works out.
I had a female boss
Not my boss but a boss that I was helping tell me to get an abortion cause the baby's birth would land on an important time frame for a project. I was just learning some new skills and helping them. It was just a side project . She got fired not for what she said to me but she kept saying inappropriate things like that. My baby is six now. . I work for the City so we have FMLA and now all moms and dads get twelve weeks of paid leave without using their own sick or vacation. They didn't have that when I had my kids though. We keep getting diversity and inclusion training and so do the bosses so they know that pregnancy is a protected state and they can't discriminate based on it . Sorry you are going through this . I had a negative experience with my second child when I was pregnant too. I got pre eclampsia and my female boss tried to force me to work hours and amounts against doctors orders and disclosed my hippa to my coworkers and told them they had to work overtime cause of me and my medical condition and she did get fired for that . She had 25 years ar the company and her bosses fired her for it
Wow she deserved to get fired
Wow she deserved to get fired. What is with people thinking women can not be productive and have children. If anything it motivated me to work harded when SS came into my life because I wanted to be able to provide a good life for my family. People are so ignorant.
I am an accountant, but have
I am an accountant, but have managed HR for companies as part of my duties. If your company is under 50 people, they do not fall under the FMLA law. They are not legally obligated to hold your position (or a similar one).
Yes true under FMLA. From
Yes true under FMLA. From what I have read and heard the pregnancy discrimination act says they can't fire me. Yet there is no limit stated or anything. Just really really weird. I do my job I offered to work from home part time a few weeks after I had the baby. He just got weird with me. Who knows what will happen just wondered if anyone else has ever dealt with it and if I should look for anymore signs.
They can't fire you for being
They can't fire you for being pregnant, but you can be terminated when you have to take leave (even if medically necessary).
I would plan to find a new job after you finish your maternity leave.
That is just so ridiculous.
That is just so ridiculous. Fortunately for me I am smart and have forwarded all emails to my private account that have been sent. First saying they are laying me off for my maternity and will claim not enough work, and says to notify them when I am ready to come back. I also have the one where my bos the owner states they are not letting me and I will be back after the baby. I have copied everything and kept a log of things said and done.
Unfortunately, the "laying
Unfortunately, the "laying you off" so that you can file for unemployment is likely a violation of that... and would most likely not be enforceable in a court of law because a court of law won't force performance of something that is illegal.
And the "not letting you go?".. if you are in a right to work state.. and not subject to FMLA.. they can go back on their word. They can state they could not go on without replacing you.
The bottom line is that all you really have is the "integrity" and history with them to assume they will follow through like they said. I would work really hard to repair the rough patch with your boss before you left... be extra productive.. do all I could to not take off extra time...
I have tried trust me. I have
I have tried trust me. I have not taken any extra time off. All my appointments I have scheudle after work or before work if possible. Unfrotunately these last few weeks I have had to make appts that are late afternoon. I have vacation time and used that to take half days that I need for my last few appts. I really have not taken like any time off unless necessary. I took a half day to take my dog to the vet last minute. The reason I am doing it and not DH is becuase he is saving all his vacation days to be home with me the first week after the baby. Is here.
He is even taking a couple unpaid days. I just still can not believe that some people have the mentality that having a baby is such a detrimental thing in the work place. Is what it is.
I work for a huge multi
I work for a huge multi-national company that is male-dominated, and got the royal treatment when pregnant: unlimited work from home, flexibility for doctor's appointments, 12 weeks paid leave and could take up to 6 months additional unpaid with continuing benefits. But, big companies can absorb those personnel costs (and they were clearly stated upfront - no negotiation), where small companies simply can't.
But - I had a reputation for going above and beyond before pregnancy, didn't ask for any accommodations that weren't offered, and kept my productivity up at pre-baby levels when I returned.
Fairly or not, your boss may perceive you as focused on time-off perks and no longer committed to the work, and unlikely to maintain productivity. In that case, he may hope to replace you ASAP.
I also think that some of the
I also think that some of the awkwardness may stem from the fact that she "stood up for herself and it got loud". Since the company is required to do basically nothing but "not fire you for being pregnant".. if you got loud about wanting more than that.. you were in his eyes demanding something you were not entitled to. That isn't so much standing up for yourself really because you were not trying to get what you were deserving.. you were trying to get them to give you more than they were required to do. I can see that your boss might be a little awkward about a confrontation and might have a changed perspective about an employee that demanded what they might have seen to be special treatment.
And, while they may have appeared to provide some special accomodation to that GM... that was the GM.. and it's not unusual for more senior employees to get different perks at the option of the company. I hope that she didn't try to use the "well, you did X for GM" as an argument because generally when asking for something from your employer, it's most successful when you make the request based on your own merits and not .."you let suzy do it when she was out for 2 weeks for her stent surgery".
Unfortunately, the pregnancy time off thing is going to also be seen as a bit more compromised time since once you have the baby at home, you have that baby to care for and they may not be comfortable being completely sure that you really are focusing on your job responsibilities vs being with your child. That's why I know some employers are more concerned about work from home when they know the people have young kids at home... and unfortunately, the skepticism falls more on women who are percieved caretakers. That is actually unfair because I know two men personally one now and one at a prior job that would "work from home" from time to time and it was clear that they were caring for their young kids because they were not very responsive or available when they were working from home.. One guy used to actually use "air quotes" when he would say work from home.... a few years later, he left the company to care for his kids full time because his wife earned a lot more and he had a trust fund. He was not working at home... he was caring for his kids. That is the stigma and concern that people have to overcome.. and it's tough and some companies just don't want to deal with it.. and if they offer it to some.. others might want it too and then they have a workforce they feel will be harder to manage.
I tried a very calm approach
I tried a very calm approach at first and offered several options for maternity leave as the company I work for has not policy in place or written down anywhere. I did not say well you did this for so and so. I know better than that I did say after some back and forth that you have never paid for anyone to be out in the history of company due to medical illness. I left it as that and I was calm when I said it.
I got heated after he said I simply just want and "ashmar policy put in place" I said no. I think it is just good practice to have something moving forward. He said well it is something they can consider down the road. Basically gave me the blow off at that point.
The person who handles HR here I went to them and talked to them. When I said I would like to hava sit down with them and my boss/owner to see if we can work something else out. That person when to the boss and had the converstion without me present. Not sure if that was right but it didn't seem right. So many people in the history of this company have gotten mad and yelled at owner, I have heard it all. People have come to him asking for loans and money because they have fallen on hard times. Hello one guy stole from the company multiple times was fired, he was a drug addict, and he was rehired and within a week stole agian something worth like 1,000 dollars.
My favorite recently was they found drugs on site in the one building and had a meeting about it. The owner literally said to start he does not care what people do on their own time but here you can not be doing that stuff. Possibly cocaine or heroine. He went on to say that person should come forward and admit the truth. We have OSHA to follow and contracts with large companies that have policies about this stuff that we have to abide by. That person basically go a get out of jail free card.
It is really hard for me to witness everything going on and all these things. My boss started acting differect towards me from the day I told him I was pregnant, even before I stood up for myself. Were things said and was there an attitude yes at one point I did have that. I apologized and have been trying really hard to make amends for it all. It is not working. Other people can yell and get mad and throw way bigger fits that I did and all is good.
Sorry just to give some more back ground. I know I am not entitled to anything and I get that, trust me I really do. I am taking what has been offered and have not complained since or commented or told anyone what I am getting. Trust me the other women in the office are very keen on making sure I am not getting paid. The whole environment has been just stressful. I plan to start looking and really evaluate what I want moving forward. Thanks for the input.
Honestly, your workplace
Honestly, your workplace sounds highly dysfunctional and unprofessional - personal loans, drugs and stealing tolerated, yelling showdowns. The timing may suck, but it's probably for the best to move on to another company.
I agree. It was never this
I agree. It was never this bad but in the last couple years things seem to be much more disorganized and honestly the owner seems to be checking out more and more. I think he will sell in the next few years anyway.
You are entitled to fair
You are entitled to fair treatment under the law, and it's ridiculous that they'd be upset about a young woman being pregnant. That's the cost of employing human beings, they sometimes need time off.
I think the issue was that
I think the issue was that you approached them and asked for a policy that would provide benefits to you.. they don't have a ton of people in your situation.. so basically what you were asking for in their eyes.. was a self serving policy to be put in place.
I mean, they don't have to pay you maternity leave. They just don't. So.. you offering that up as a solution.. or one solution? well.. they could say no. Same from working from home.. they don't want to go down that road.. it's a small company.. they can have that perspective.
You have been there 7 years.. you could have gone to them 5 years ago with a proposal.. but you waited until you were pregnant.. they clearly see this as something you want as a benefit that wasn't part of the "employment package".
Again, it is what it is... and the fact that they may have given people loans in the past? or given people second chances? Well.. again that has zero to do with your situation. If you work at it, I'm sure with your great past history with them.. you and your manager will get past the rough spot. But, you need to get yourself in the mindset that you were asking for something they didn't have to do for you.. and that what they are doing for you is more than they need to... If you keep harboring this "it's unfair to me" mindset.. I think it will be hard to keep working there.. whether you want to or not.
Again, you say that no one else there can do your job.. but it can be outsourced.. which means you are technically replacable to them. Maybe the other people had skills or relationships with people there that you don't.
As someone else said.. it's risky putting your family's whole basket of income in one small company that could fold.. or if one of you gets fired.. it's sure to impact the other one's job.
Sounds like you are exploring other opportunities.. maybe look for a larger company that would already have these kinds of policies and protections built in.
The issue is misogyny. The
The issue is misogyny. The men are allowed to steal, yell and bring drugs to work. The women better not complain about shit!! Tale as old as time...
I know the story well. I was
I know the story well. I was actually told at 19 years old that they only had so much annual raise to give out and were giving the mailroom guy a bigger share than me "because he had a family at home". This was over 30 years ago. I know that over my career I have paid the price for being a woman many times.
I have never had kids.. but I'm sure the "potential cost to the company" has been factored in to my earnings over time.
And.. in some ways I am doubly dinged on this... like my current company.. it does offer some paid time off and time for both parents. They even offer time off for people that adopt. But, I have never and will never be in a position to take advantage of that benefit. and the COST of that benefit is factored into our compensation.. so I technically am paid less so that others can use this benefit.
It's just naturally unfair that women biologically are the people that carry their children. The stakes are much higher for women out of the gate. But, in the work world.. businesses are not in the business of providing jobs and incomes to people.. they are in the business of whatever they are producing.. that good or service. Benefits like paid time off for these events are enticements to get a good quality work force.
There will always be disparity in treatment in the workplace. Like a teacher's pet.. there may be personal relationships that allow some people to get away with more. Some employees have more value to their employers.. so they can be more lenient in some ways... if Ash's job can be outsourced.. it sounds like she is a support person.. an office administrator.. accounting role maybe. If the company is a plumbing company.. they may bend over backwards for qualified plumbers.. but not feel they have to go to those lengths for the payroll clerk who they can just get an accounting firm to replace the function if they need to.
BTW.. there are workplaces that allow attrocious actions by women too.. I know of a woman who bought a car on her company credit card.. never had to repay them and they kept her on staff.. always wonder what she had on them.
I am not administrative
I am not administrative support. Some aspects of my job can technically be outsourced not all. I am in sales and do all the marketing and advertising for the company if you want to know. What they offered is illegal, I know this because I did ask a lawyer. If my husband did not work here they would still have to offer my benefits while I was out. This is all stuff I know.
I get what you are saying I really do. I think it is a little difficult for you to have an honest perspective on this as you have not children of your own and never been in this situation. I get small companies can do what they want but that does not make it right. As for my husband and I having all our eggs in one basket, trust me when I say we are good. I know how much money they company makes, I see the reports. The company is no where near going out of business. It is small but it is also a multi-million dollar company. When my DH lost his job a few months back and I was already pregnant I went to the GM and asked if he had some part time work to supplement what we lost. They new his skills as they had met him and talked to him at company outings. They decided to hire him. I stayed totally out of that one.
We are grateful, the commute for him is longer but he works m-f day shifts and for what he does that is not easy to come by unless you stay with a company for a really long time.
I get my situation and fully understand it all. It has been awkward since the day I told my boss. He litterally huffed like a groan of types hung is head, shook it a little, as his initial reaction. I still traveled after I found out I was expecting, before the restrictions got put in place. Even since that day he has treated me different. I am fine with the compensation I am getting and excepting it. What I am not totally ok with is how it is very clear that pregnancy is not very welcomed here.
"I get small companies can do
"I get small companies can do what they want but that does not make it right." Just like you don't think I can have a "true perspective" becauseI haven't been in this situation. I don't think you have a true perspective because you aren't the boss or manager who has to deal with employees that are asking for a benefit that wasn't part of their hiring package.. and then getting upset when the employer doesn't offer them what they want.. what would make their life easier.
You are seeing it from the perspective of an employee that is pregnant. While I can sympathize with this situation (even though I have not personally been in it).. I know people who have had to deal with it. I have also been in the workplace and had to take on extra work to cover for people with kids a lot.. and that is also a factor in a lot of places.
As someone who has had their own business and dealt with employees in a small environment.. I see it also as a business owner who has to deal with the extra cost of dealing with employees that expect or want to be paid for not working or have special arrangements.
Employers have work that has to be done. When an employee is out sick, wants an extended leave of absence with pay.. they are asking the employer to give them money for not giving me any value in exchange (other than retaining an employee that may/may not have that much value depending on a lot of factors). Now there are some protections under the law for employees. They can't fire you for being pregnant under the assumption that they think that you will be less productive as a result. They can fire you for being less productive if they can prove you are not producing the work they need. They also put higher requirements on employers that have more employees because the cost can be spread over more people.. and expect that they can absorb it.
The fact that the company makes lots of money? That doesn't mean they are obligated to reach in their pocket for people when they ask.. They have done it for some people.. some people have burned their bridges.. perhaps they have ruined your employer's good will for handling these things. And.. maybe your manager is just a sexist SOB that is rolling his eyes because he thinks that it will be one thing after another with you now that you are having a baby. I don't know.. I have had pregnant coworkers.. some were great team players.. some really milked it and I've known many who have been all "Yeah.. of course I am coming back to work.. yeah.. pay my maternity leave" and then when the time came.. they didn't come back.. So.. while I sympathize that you work for a company that doesn't offer this benefit. They didn't offer it before.. you didn't get it as part of your hiring package.. It does sound like they have been burned in the past by other employees.. the drug thing..they didn't know who it belonged to.. so Iguess they couldn't fire everyone right..though Iguess they couldhave drug tested everyone.. but that again comes with a cost.
I get your perspective I do.
I get your perspective I do. I can wrap my head around my boss has a company to run and yes true I would be paid for doing nothing I get that. There is no policy where I work and I get that coming up with one now would seem to only accomodate me but is it not good practice to start a precedent as time continues and they hire other women or continue to grow. That is my opion on the matter.
I have been an extremely loyal employee, never asked for anything. My boss has made it very clear that having young children is not really acceptable at this place. That was evidentally clear when I asked to work from home when the schools and daycares shut down earlier this year. They never sat down with me and talked options or said if I need to take a layoff at the time I would have a job to come back to. What do you do with that? I was already set up to work remotely as I travel at times for this job. There was literally a pandemic and our state had shut so much down and said if you can work from home you should. Trust me I can do my entire job remotely right now as I am not allowed in any of the other buildings and no customers are coming to visit. Nope it would be unfair to everyone else. No one else in the office has young children. I am the only one.
I get you are coming from this as an employer side of things. That does not make it right, does not make it fair. I have been treated differently because I am pregnant. When the person in HR went to the owner and told them everything I said about the original offer and said I requested a meeting with both of them to maybe work out something else that was wrong. I also asked for everything in writing and still have gotten nothing. They do not want to put in writing that they are committing unemployment fraud. Too bad they already said it in an email.
They have handled all this extremely poorly. You are coming off like I should just be grateful I am getting anything at all. I am happy about getting my bonus early and it being very generous, I still do not have to be totally ok with the treatment I have recieved. I just wanted feed back from people who ever been in my situation. You have not. While you can sympathize you will not fully understand the stress and the emtional roller coaster you go through knowing those around you on daily basis have an issue with you being pregnant and are fully judging you.
So - women who work for small
So - women who work for small companies should have no children? Or small companies should only hire men? What is the solution to this capitalist view of human labor?
Small companies have a lot of
Small companies have a lot of burdens.. disproportionate to large companies. I mean.. think about this. My dad needs caregivers daily. He has about 6 caregivers that cover 12 hour shifts 7 days a week... they mostly work part time. He pays a decent hourly rate... but he also does withholding and we pay an accounting firm to do proper withholdings... also pay unemployment insurance as he is technically an employer. My dad is making zero income.. but according to the state he is an employer.. when one of the caregivers was let go last year she filed for unemployment. Due to a mix up with the number that the employment board was supposed to call for the telephone hearing the ex-caregiver was given unemployment. she was let go for cause... was late.. was not performing her duties.. was leaving my dad alone to take care of personal business. But because the called my cell phone when I was in a meeting at work instead of calling the number where the caregiver "manager" was to deal with this they just default approved her claim.
So.. if one of these women (they all are women .. ) got pregnant.. should my dad then have to provide them paid time off? should he guarantee that he holds their space open.. or that he will definitely take them back.. when one gets pregnant? He is their employer.. but at what point would be consider it not reasonable to have him cover that benefit.
Now, larger companies have found that offering this benefit to men and women (both are parents right).. is one way to provide something that prospective employees find of value. Not all employers can afford to pay "double" for the same work which is what it amounts to.
Having a child is a choice. It just is. I suppose we could take this out of employer's hands all together and establish some minimal amount of paid leave... like unemployment insurance for parents when they have a child. Maybe 3 or 4 weeks at the same rate they pay unemployment claims... If employers want to supplement that they can. Of course this means that all employees will be subject to some impact for the cost of this as it would be spread over everyone who works.. male or female.
I think we find that when it is in an employer's best interest to retain well qualified employees in a competitive environment.. they offer better benefits like maternity leave..
We do live in a capatilistic society. We can bring socialism into this mix but nothing is free. It costs someone to work for the benefit that you give to someone else. No free healthcare.. the doctor has to train and spend their time. Medicalsupplies are produced by someone's effort and materials. There is no free lunch.. someone makes it. someone grows the ingredients. Someone is paying for it. We may agree that as a society we are ok with paying those additional costs.. or we may have limits to what we can do... at some point people have to have responsibility for their own choices too.
3 to 4 weeks of unemployment.
3 to 4 weeks of unemployment. Did you know it takes much longer than weeks to recover from a c-section. You clearly have never been pregnat and if you have I am sorry for this. You have no idea the emotional toll it takes to have child and to carry one for 9 months and still be productive at work. I am flat our exhausted every single day when I get home. Way more than I have ever been in my life. Soon I will be pushing a baby out of me which also takes a toll on my body. Yes having a child is a choice.
It should not be viewed as a burden. Comparing your dad's situatoin to work for an actaul small company that offers insurance and benefits is not that same not even close. I think the government should offer paid maternity and paid paternity leave. They do for federal employees these days. I would be happy to pay a little more in my taxes knowing I would be able to take time off with way less worry to care for a new born baby.
Again until you have been in the situation I do not think you can grasp it very clearly.
But.. you don't understand..
But.. you don't understand.. my dad would be treated like your small business.. he is an employer of 6 people. I guess he could be exempt if the structured the requirement..
And... not everyone has a C-section. If it's medically necessary to be out of work.. it's a MEDICAL disability issue.. not a pregnancy time off issue.
I can grasp it quite clearly. I don't have to go through it to understand that it sucks that you aren't going to be paid for your time off. I also understand that many companies offer better benefits. They do that to attract employees. They aren't doing it because they are "nicer" than your company.
I mean, from your own admission.. it is difficult for you to be pregnant and be productive.. I'm sorry.. but isn't that proving your boss' point to not be super happy that he has an employee that may not be as fully "there" as they were before they got pregnant?
I mean.. you say you would be happy to pay more to make the benefit available.
Why haven't you"paid" yourself this tax in a savings account to save for this future possibility? Lots of people do save up in advance knowing that they will need to take extra time off.
Does your company offer disability insurance? that does often cover a decent part of recovery time for pregnancy and for that C-section if you need it.
Again.. maybe we need more comprehensive leave that would pay the unemployment rate to people who workfor companies that don't offer maternity leave? Maybe the standard is 4 weeks but can be extended based on medical recomendations? Unemployment isn't your regular salary.. but it is something.. and if your employer pays in as part of unemployment insurance a bit more to cover this kind of situation.. then maybe that works out to be less of a burden.
But.. to be clear.. babies aren't the only reason why people need time off. When my dad almost died.. I had to take vacation time I had accrued or go without pay. If I had not been able to keep my job going.. I would have been fired.
Women are often in that caregiver situation too.. it sucks being faced with these choices.. but it's not like you were promised something and they went back on it.
We need to insist that
We need to insist that everyone offers maternity leave. If you can't afford to pay for basic human wage and benefits, don't hire anyone in your business, do all the work yourself.
Your father is not a good comparison, he's not making a profit off of those nurse's aides. She is talking about people who make a profit in their business and then refuse to treat their workers well.
When you keep saying 4 weeks
When you keep saying 4 weeks it is very clear you do not understand needing off to have a baby. I can not put my child in daycare until at least 6 weeks. This is where you clearly do not understand the basics of having a baby. No offense but you do not get it.
I never admitted to be less productive because I am pregnant. I am very productive and still do my job to the full extent I have before. I am just more exhausted at the end of the day and come Friday evening I have nothing left in me. I spend all weekend recovering by sleeping in as much as I can and taking naps. You would not understand what it is like if you have never been pregnant. I have also been lucky to have nausea the entire time and be really sick.
I get babies are not the only reason people need off. I needed a day or two when I had a surgery a couple years ago. My mom needed off to have a hysterectmy. I get there are other reasons. My company does not offer disability, I would have had to have seeked out my own. I did not think I had to based on a converstation with my boss years ago.
You really have a very narrow minded view of this and I am sorry but I do believe that is becuase you do not have your own children. Having a child should not be viewed as some kind of disability and should not be treated as something of an inconvience. Women make up a huge part of the work force and should be accepted better and acknoledged better.
Such as a choice to start a
Such as a choice to start a small business? That's a choice as well. It's also a choice how you treat your employees or if you hide behind "it's hard for us so we won't do it". And certainly if people don't pay for any maternity leave, they shouldn't find sneaky ways to fire them "legally" for daring to have children.
They should at least be able to get some sort of disability. My state now has Paid Family Leave for men and women and that is helpful, too. But the idea that it's okay to treat your workers poorly so you can make more money has to go.
Thanks Beebeel. I fully
Thanks Beebeel. I fully understand they never had to give me anything at all. I am not disillusioned about this. Honestly is not really my issue. I know the laws in this country and in our state I read up. I had a conversation with the owner years ago about taking out disability should this ever come up. He said if it eer came up I would not hae to worry. I took his word. I think he also thought would never have children. At the time there was absolutely no plan of it as I was single and not married. Well I changed my mind.
This have calmed, I find it so odd that like a couple weeks ago one of the guys in the office was yelling at my boss/owner and they say good morning now like everything is all good. My boss will not even look at me and it is has gotten worse as I have become very visibly pregnant. I am due in less than 3 weeks. I find it odd I keep getting asked when my last day of work is. I have said I am working up till I have the baby. I want my money up until that point. Some really weird things.
Most countries have some kind
Most countries have some kind of paternity/maternity leave - I'm thankful New York now does. It's crazy to me that we make it an issue for women to have children and still work.
Maternity leave is a joke in
Maternity leave is a joke in this country. I've known small businesses that have amazing maternity leave and other benefits, so don't tell me it's impossible because of size.
Even working at a public school with hundreds of employees and decent benefits, I was told if I came back after my leave, it wouldn't be to my job. I would have had to take a completely different job. Even though I only took two weeks of time during the school year and the rest I had planned around summer break, I felt it was a punishment for daring to have a child while employed. It fucking sucked.
I told them to pound sand and I found a much better opportunity working from home.
Beebeel you and I do not
Beebeel you and I do not usually agree. On this I see we clearly agree. This whole things was not about me wanting special treatment but more about seeing women having children is not a bad things but reality and should be accepted as such and handled much better.
Our country should be doing better and I think that starts with many business owners having a more open minded mentality about it all. I have had great raises over the years here and pretty good bonuses. I have been happy. When I got pregnant the attitude towards me changed. I originally said I need at least 6 weeks. I get a weird feeling they may not take me back even though I have never done anything to warrant that action. I could be paranoid but i am sorry but if I get replaced because I had a baby that is just flat out wrong.
They have fired and rehired so many people here of the years. They have done much worse than me and had extremely poor job performance. Hell there are employees that have cost the company 10,000 dollars or more because they screwed up production and they still kept their jobs with no punishment at all. Knowing all this I have hard time wrapping my head around how I have always been valued. It just seems to me pregnany is not acceptable here.