Teen Stepkids Don't Want to Visit
So SD16 and SS14 call my DW and tell her all of a sudden they don't want to visit anymore. We have a wonderful home and have a lot of fun, and have a daughter 10 and son 4 between us and all the kids have a good time together. SD16 and SS14 chose to live with BD 2 years ago and wife decided to let them. She couldn't take the pleading anymore. BD is the typical "Disney Dad" without the Disney. Typically has always had trouble holding a job, always lives in run down accommodations, but lacks structure, rules, has the mentality of an adolescent and provides an awful diet (appealing to kids though) so we've always understood the draw to him from a kids perspective. Wife told SD and SS she was very hurt by this but she loves them and will always be here for them. Are they at the age she should let this go temporarily and let them figure out on their own how wrong this is? Or force the issue? Just very sad. We know they are (as they always have been) being manipulated so terribly by their BD.
This is most likely parental
This is most likely parental alienation - she should insist on them visiting unless the court stops her visitation, until they turn 18. The next step will be that they cut her off entirely and stop speaking to her.
It most certainly is parental
It most certainly is parental alienation and has been for 10 years. They lived with us full time for 7 years but at this point I feel they are too old to engage in legal action. Yes my wife could do that but I think it would be more detrimental for the relationship with the step kids. Not to mention a huge hassle with little hope of good coming from it. My wife is stuck and doesn't know what to do.
Once they get to mid teens I
Once they get to mid teens I think there's very little point in forcing visits. What would be gained? the step kids would be resentful and it would worsen your wife's relationship with them even more. We experienced parental alienation for years and years, NPD BM poisoned her daughters against me and DH. Me more than him. And yet now they are in their 20s, they are beginning to see that she fed them a load of rubbish about us. They see how chaotic and full of unnecessary drama her life is - and how calm and pleasant ours is by comparison. My advice to you and your DW is let them be - hopefully in time they will see how things really are.
THANK YOU.
THANK YOU.
I was really hoping for some assurance that my beliefs are on the right track. I agree 100% but easier for me to conclude this than my wife.
My SS was alienated for over
My SS was alienated for over 3 years, so we've been down this path. It's worth some legal fight, but not to the death and until your finances are broken. My DH eventually had to stop fighting and I supported that - my SS did reappear after 3.5 years of alienation.
But she should not, IMO, just say, "OK, kids, I'm not going to fight it at all". Give it a try and see how it goes in court. We had a poster here who was told repeatedly to give up on court and at their final appearance, BM was told to make sure the kid visited or she'd go to jail. Guess what, the kid visited and was happy to be there. So don't just wave the white flag without seeing where your court stands. The kids are not in control here and they might actually WANT someone to force them to visit.
Kids' allegiance to their
Kids' allegiance to their parents can be a strange thing. Even when a parent isn't actually very good at parenting, that's either not how the kid sees it, or the kid just wants them to be better so desperately that they'll overlook a lot of flaws in order to be with them. Or some kids even think that their very presence will make that parent want to do better. And then some kids end up in a reversed parenting role and worry that that parent won't be ok without them around all the time. And then yes, some parents will alienate their kids and make the other parent out to be awful amidst all of that too.
Also, teens actually, physcially lack the ability of foresight because of how their brains develop, which can only complicate things more. They're smarter than we sometimes give them credit for, but they can be incredibly obtuse at times as well, because they simply cannot see how things might play out the same way we do.
Interesting that your skids bio dad has such a hard time adulting--why is he so bent on having the added responsibility of two teenagers?
That said, I could see my 12yo son wanting to go live with his dad. No alienation or anything like that, but things are a lot more lax there. As much as it would hurt me, I would respect my son's desire to go be with him. I get it--just like you guys see the appeal in your skids wanting to live with their dad too. I would, however, demand visitations with me--and I think his dad would help make sure that happens too. Because that's how it should work.
There's a fine line when it comes letting kids have some input and control over their living situation I think, but there has to be at least some concessions made. Compromises. Because if not, then it's really just giving them their way, and that doesn't teach them anything in the long run. It's important to take their thoughts into consideration, but someone has to step in and make an adult decision when they cannot. I imagine if you guys tried to communicate this to their dad it wouldn't get you anywhere. So going to court may be worth a shot. If they had a concrete reason for not coming, that would be one thing. But there is no real reason for the kids not to visit other than they just don't want to, and that's not acceptable.
Agree
I think you're pretty spot on. On the one hand, yes, kids probably feel that their BD "needs" them there and I think over the years he's wrongfully made them feel that way to get what he wants (literally crying to them when they were with us full time, expressing that they've been taken from him etc). I have no doubt that since they've lived with him he's continued that messaging just to ensure they never change their mind. On the other hand, the SKs will be 15 and 17 this year and know right from wrong, but agree they can't use the foresight of an adult brain to realize how not visiting could be so detrimental.
I don't think court is an option because at their ages, it doesn't seem worth it. Having the courts enforce visitation on 2 teenagers who have expressed no desire to visit anymore (which I think may be an influenced, short term feeling) would just feel rushed right now and again, not worth it. I'm hoping they come to their own realization that this is wrong (my wife expressed this to them already).
Ultimately it's up to my wife but she feels pretty much the same (with all of the hurt along with it). I recognize how messed up it is, but fortunately don't have the burden of feeling hurt by it so it's easier for me to be objective and unemotional.
Thanks for your insight!
You and your DW abdicated
You and your DW abdicated your position of athority as the adults in your household to two teens and are now regretting that. Not surprising. There is a reason why adults make the decisions in families and kids don't.
The abdication parenting trend of the past decade or two is returning results that should be no surprise to anyone.
Considering the age of these Skids, the view is likely not worth the climb regarding getting things back under the control of the viable adults. BioDad obviously does not qualify. Any parent that would play tears over "needing" their children is pathetic and far from a viable adult. Your SO should have never abdicated her place as a parent to her kids.
Nope. There is no age that a
Nope. There is no age that a kid should choose. A CP is appointed as CP by the courts. Not that I have all that much respect for or faith in the those who are idiots that often make rulings wearing the Harry Potter robes and slinging the Fisher-Price wooden hammer. However, the CP is the one who decides where the kid(s) live.
If the NCP wants that to change, the NCP needs to go to court.
If kids are kept abreast of the facts and are fully informed of the content of the CO, in an age appropriate manner, then they know that where they live is ordered by a Judge and is not really up to either mom or dad. That limits the drama. Coddling kids rather than keeping them informed with the facts, COs, court records, applicable jurisdictional supplemental guidelines and applicable State regulations.helps both parents and their kids in navigating the blended family adventure. If one of those parents refuses to remain informed. that gives a distinct and in all likelihood very effective advantage to the parent who invests the time in being informed and who keeps the kids informed.
It worked like a charm for us. Though we had the distinct advantage of being the CP household and never lived nearer than ~1200 miles to SpermLand and did not have to deal with anything but a long distance visitation schedule. And... my DW is of course the BM.
Of course if mom and dad are both reasonable it can be worked out. But if STalk is any indicator... that is one very big IF one side or the other of blended family equation..
JMHOC