Before they married it was her business and hers alone.  Had she continued to make payments using her own paycheck and not altered the status quo of their finances then it would have remained her business.  However, now that they are married and she wants to take out a loan, that loan becomes marital debt.  If she uses the loan to pay off her prior debt, she has transformed her prior debt into marital debt even if she continues to make payments herself because she incurred that loan during the marriage.  Her DH has every right to be royally p*ssed off that she did not tell him and now he has to be on the hook for a loan.

Plus people tend to be angry at being intentionally kept in the dark.  If your friend was handling it herself, why did she need to hide it?  Sure it was her business and she had no obligation to disclose it but that is not going to feel good to her DH when he is thinking about it at 3:00 in the morning.  How would she feel if the roles were reversed?  The phrase "if he has been hiding this all these years, what ELSE is he capable of hiding???" springs to mind.  

She has some major a$$ kissing to do.  Was she obligated to disclose prior to marriage?  No.  But should she have?  100% yes.  She should have spoken then or forever kept her mouth shut.

I don't know if it could be considering lying, but I think she was not forthcoming and that be seen as untrustworthy. 
That said, I don't think it's uncommon for there to be surprises after people are married. Especially if people have a "shameful" secret like debt, they are likely to not want to reveal it. If the relationship is strong, it will survive, but she will have to build trust again and will have to be okay with allowing him to be upset and give her a hard time about this for a while.

Yes, I believe it's a lie - it's called a "lie of omission". I'd be upset if I found out that DH had huge debt that he hadn't told me about.  Debt affects your partner, especially if you live in a state/country where any loans to pay that debt might then become HIS debt. Or if attempts to pay it off take money away from the household that the other partner then has to make up out of his/her money. Maybe he was counting on her being able to contribute X amount, so they bought a house based on that;  but now she can't pay that amount because she has to put more towards that debt. 

And the worst for me is that I would wonder what else he had hidden from me.  That sort of secret would make me question my marriage.  You can't build a strong relationship on a bed of lies and secrets. Why would she keep such a secret?

In your friend's case, I believe she was in the wrong. Personally, I don't believe you should marry someone if you can't be open and honest with them about your circumstances and who you really are. You don't think she lied, but she was not being honest, either.

 Being in debt is a pretty big deal when you are marrying someone. It's not like she didn't tell him that she couldn't tie her shoes until she was 11.

It's definitely a lie by omission on her part and carelessness on his part. Imagine if she had a STD and didn't tell him; I think we'd all say that was a lie and putting him at risk. When you marry someone you really need to check them out and get to know EVERYTHING about them before legally joining your lives together.  It's not very romantic to ask to see their account statements and have a credit check/background check run, but it should be required.  

Before I met DH I was dating a guy who was deeply in debt, had filed bankruptcy, got laid off, was living off credit, was borrowing money from his adult kids, and so on. We were in love and got along well but I knew I could never legally join anything of mine with his.  We'd never be able to buy a house together and I certainly wouldn't put him on any of my accounts.  I broke it off after a year of him making no progress in getting his finances together.  It may sound like a b*tch move but money is the #1 issue that people divorce. I didn't want to start out and have to crawl down into his hole.  

I wouldn't call this a lie.  To me, a lie is an intentional false statement.  Assuming she never made any statement about her financial situation/debt, then this is an omission, not a lie.  That doesn't make it any better.  Both are deception, both are wrong, when the information is withheld from one's spouse.

Debt is a big deal and should be disclosed. I think she was deceitful. However, my DH and I still joke about the fact when we had been dating a couple of months I told him I would need to see his credit score to go any further. Immediately I received a screenshot of his well over 800 score with the comment 'do I pass?':) Her husband should have asked. These are just basic things you need to know about a person before getting married. I showed DH my equally strong credit too.

Wikipedia:  'Lying by omission, also known as a continuing misrepresentation or quote mining, occurs when an important fact is left out in order to foster a misconception. Lying by omission includes the failure to correct pre-existing misconceptions. For example, when the seller of a car declares it has been serviced regularly, but does not mention that a fault was reported during the last service, the seller lies by omission. It may be compared to dissimulation. An omission is when a person tells most of the truth, but leaves out a few key facts that therefore, completely obscures the truth.'

I can tell you from experience as a person who was lied to by omission, that when you are not up front and 'honest' with your potential mate it sets the stage for misunderstandings years down the road.  Just ask yourself how you want your marriage to look in ten, twenty. thirty years.  Is it really worth it to keep your partner in the dark, and risk the loss of trust for the rest of your marriage?  Do you want them to question if you really love them?  

Before I married DH he didn't exactly 'lie' but he implied he made more then he actually did, that his job had more potential, and he was on a roll.  He left out a lot.  I SHOULD have checked him out before I married him.   I was stupid and take full responsibility for it.  I didn't find out the truth for a long time, and when I did I felt like I had been used.  He later said he hadn't been forthright with me because he was afraid I wouldn't marry him.

As 'heartless' as it sounds, before you marry anyone, check them out.  We are not dealing with first marriages so in most cases there is no rush.  Take your time to REALLY know all about them.  If you still want to be with them get a pre-nup.  If you are in debt, this would let your mate know you love them enough that you don't want to shoulder them with it, and you value trust in your marriage.

Also, as heartless as it sounds, it is very important in a marriage to have common values.  This means, social, financial, emotional, and intellectual values.  It's a lot easier to grow with someone if you are on the same path. 

Omitting the debt info while they were friends was not a lie,  Omitting the debt info while dating was not a lie.  Omitting the debt info once they decided to marry was absolutely a lie.  It shocks me that anyone would feel different.  

Yes, it is absolutely a lie.

I would suggest that your friend apologize to her husband and beg for forgiveness. Honestly, she reminds me of a child who doesn't tell the whole truth because they don't want to get into trouble. Then defends themselves by saying "Well you never asked me that specifically!"

A friend of mine was adopted. She found her birth father and he had no idea that she existed. He had a girlfriend in HS and then moved away. A year later he came back and ended up marring the girl. They had a daughter and divorced 10 years later. She never told him that she'd given birth to a daughter in the year that he was away!

My friend discovered that she has a full blood sister! She has met with her birth mother as well and guess what? BM hadn't told her second husband or children with him that she'd given a child up for adoption.

A lot more controversial than not telling someone about debt but still a lie.

The good news is that my friend is now very close to her sister and is building a relationship with her father and his other children. Her BM, not so much.

I answered above but I wanted to add that, by the rationale of "I was never asked directly so I did not lie" escapism of the lie of omission standard, essentially the friend is doing the ultimate cop-out.  She is saying that, unless someone had strapped her to a chair with a naked lightbulb swinging overhead and grilled her within an inch of her life with a battery of questions, she is off the hook to disclose major facts of her life that could eventually impact them.  Like the existence of debt that would lead to a loan taken out during the marriage.  And in every state that I am aware of, a loan taken out in the course of a marriage is marital debt.  If she defaults, the bank can come after any property that they jointly own to recoup the debt.

By her logic, every day her DH should have to sit her down and ask her if she knocked boots with the entire roster of co-workers during the lunchhour.  And if he happens to miss the correct name, oh well.......    Maybe an extreme example but if she used that type of "you did not specifically ask me" logic, you can be sure that type of untrustworthiness either has or will cross his mind.

I belive this entirely, providing the issue will or has the potential to affect another person. I speak this from experience as my DH neglected to inform me of several issues before we were married, as well as after, and in the case of all the omissions there have been negative consequances for me, our marriage and our future plans. My DH said the same thing as your friend, that I hadn't asked. Some of them I should have asked about but, being an open and honest person myself, I didn't consider needing to ask what I assumed would be naturally disclosed to the person you intend to marry or are married to. Other things were issues I would never have considered asking, as they were far from my realm of thinking. Why would the onus of disclosure become mine because I didn't ask the question?

Where I come from many kinds of debt in a marriage becomes jointly liable and the unknowing spouse may be on the hook for paying it off. Debt also become a factor in plans to purchase property etc. 

I won't go into details about my DH's omissions, but suffice to say I have been furious each time one has come to light and has affected me. As another poster said, it is a cop out of your friend to state she wasn't asked, even if she thought she had her debt under control. Her DH had the right to be fully informed of what may affect him and their marriage and she should have had the integrity to be forthcoming about her situation. 

I have debt and I told my DH when we were dating and getting serious. He didn't care. He told me he had bakruptsy (years before we met) because BM refused to work and he lost his job so he himself is afraid to ever have debt ever since. 

i don't believe one needs to disclose their debt to boyfriends, but surely it needs to be disclosed when getting married. At least it has to be mentioned. Not because one needs their spouses help to pay debt but because it is a decent thing to do

sadly your friend lied, possibly thought he'd not marry her if she had debt (some wouldn't). So that's tricking a person into marrying you. And saying she lied because he didn't ask is ridiculous. What if she had STD (he didn't ask about a specific kind she had), slept around during their relationship (he didn't ask if she sleeps around) etc She absolutely lied

now if she thinks couples should have private lives and don't need to disclose such things, then she should just date and not tie the knot. 
 

Of course marriage is about love. For me it is. That's why I wouldn't withhold important info from my husband, I love  and respect him. So I am honest to people I love. And marriage is about love for my DH too. That's why when I told him I have debt, he said he can't care less. 

withholding important info from a legal spouse and then saying he must love her enough and forgive lies, isn't very loving in my opinion. Love goes both ways. Being honest is part of loving relationship. Lying directly or by omission isn't really love because it doesn't give your partner fair chance by misrepresenting yourself. If you love your partner and want honest and healthy relationship, you don't misrepresent yourself.

my marriage is about love and respect and it's honest. Sadly your friends marriage was not built on love because she first lied (which isn't a foundation of love) and then refuses to face consequences (again not how love works) 

for your fiend to believe she had rights to lie but he has no rights to be mad when truth came out s very unfair. Plus of your friend is embarrassed in front of her spouse she had no business marrying him. It's not how marriage works. She'd better off find someone she can be comfortable and secure with  

Wrong. A lie by omission is still a lie. A big lie by omission, like this one, is a dealbreaker for me. You are trying to justify your friend's actions because she was a single mother and it was "good" debt. Doesn't matter. When you marry someone, debt should be disclosed. It is not fair for the new partner to find out about big debt after marriage. Not sure why you can't see that. 

I was on my own and a single mom too most of my life and my debt is not like drug debt or something, mostly medical bill, student loan etc lol I still didn't think I had to be lying about it. Lie is a lie. Not a good start of a marriage  

It's one of the first things to be discussed when marrying someone else.  Most prenups include debt and savings as part of what to add so finances are clear.

Did they do any type of prenup? Do you know for sure they didn't have a financial conversation that she failed to mention here debt as part of the discussion?

Id be shocked if no financial conversation came up.
 

But regardless, no I would not consider your friend to be an honest person in that she did not disclose a significant and potentially life changing debt.

I completely understand why her new husband would be upset.  I would have a really hard time trusting her in the future. However, I do question why he did not insist on having a financial history conversation with her.  Because that just seems like such a basic thing to do especially in a 2nd marriage when theoretically people have more potential good or bad history.

Without reading any of the replies, I can tell you this happened to my bro when my SIL shared about her student loans & $30k in dental bills (= from a country with poor dental care), shortly after they got married. They got through it, but it hurt my bro that she kept that from him. He helped her pay it off 13 years ago.

Not disclosing 85k debt is more than  just a little omission. 

To me marriage is as much a buisness arrangement as a declaration of love and I think that everyone should be open with the state of their finances and aims and goals for the future before they sign the marraige certificate. Even if they plan to keep finances separate. I kept my finances secret while dating my husband and paid close attention to how he managed his finances. We were very open with each other though once we decided to get married. 

This couple seem to have had different ideas to me and did not fully disclose thier finances to each other prior to marriage, so that could be a mistake on both their parts although I guess they both assumed the other did not have any nasty surprises in their financial closets. Knowing that that assumption was being made and deliberatly witholding information is not a great way to start a marriage.

I am surprised that her debts were not brought to light when they applied for a mortgage together. I know I saw my husband's credit report when we were sorting finances to buy our house. 

Overall I do not really think that it matters weather it is classed as a "lie" or not. A lie is mearly a word to describe a thing. What matters is that her husband feels hurt and betrayed and that the wife did not feel that she could trust her husband with knoweldge of her debts until this time. They need to work out how to get past these things as they will eat at their trust for each other and destroy their relationship unless the address them. Having said that the husband may feel that he needs his wife to appologize for her lie in order for him to start to hear things from her point of view. 

11k isn't a lot of money. Why does she need loans to pay that? I'd not take loans to pay 11k

When they chose to marry it became pertinate.  A lie of omission is still a lie.

Not telling a spouse everyting is one thing but a pile of debt is definately on the share it now list.

IMHO of course.

It could be a lie by omission, however- if she had told him prior to this that she had some form of debt (like a lot of people) and he didn’t question her further on it, then it is not entirely her fault. 

It perhaps wasn’t wise to do this. In the UK as a spouse is no longer responsible for the other persons debt (the laws changed years ago though not sure how many) people think sharing their financial information is not as much of a big deal as it used to be. Not sure what the laws regarding debt are in your country. I would only be upset if I was legally responsible for someone else’s debt and they hadn’t forewarned me. 

I think both parties should be open about their financial situation when going into a relationship.  That includes baring their debt ridden soul.  Of course, she could have, at that time, told him that she did not intend to use any joint finances to pay off her existing debt.  The fact that she is now considering a consolidation loan gives me the impression that what she owes is not a trivial amount and that she may have actually let the debt grow.

I think partners should understand their partner's financial tendencies.. saver/spender etc.. while they don't have to have outright JOINT finances.. their individual decisions can still impact the couple as a whole.

I think it was akin to a lie (maybe not that exact word).  She kept a secret from her husband that was in the category of "major issue".  It would hurt as much as being lied to about a significant thing.

Ohhhh noooo. You gotta be upfront with that crap.

I had about 30k of debt when I got married. My wife kinda laughed and told me that it's a "funny little loan".

I think 300k would have made her double-think getting married before it was paid off.

You don't get to sink someone like that. Not without them knowing.

It's a lie of omission. My EXH did this. He said he had no debt, but had at least 30-40k in student loans. He also overstated his income and work history. He turned out to be dishonest, abusive and self-serving in several other areas as well.

Okay, put the shoe on the other foot. If she were the fiscally responsible one and he were the credit dipshit how would she feel and since she is your friend, how would you feel if he was the one who sold her a bullshit bill of goods before they married and then said SURPRISE!!! after they were married?

It is a lie. Period.

Sounds they don't have loving trusting relationship. It might not even be about money. Why did she marry this guy? She wasn't comfortable enough to admit she has debt which is not an indication of good marriage or she was afraid he won't marry her. You'd think at 40 she'd know not to marry someone you can't be honest with or marry someone without being honest. Her decision making ability is lacking. 
 

He makes her sleep on a couch and refuses to speak for three weeks, abusive. How does he "make" her? Notnsly whoever is upset would go on a couch. He kicked her out of bed? 3 weeks??? 

I'd not be surprised if money isn't the only issue in their marriage. They have no solid foundation of trust and mutual respect. Doesn't sound like it will last, which is for the best.  

They dated for 6 years before getting married so overall they were together for the past 8 years and he only now finds out she has debt? How is it possible? I thought they got married quickly and not knowing each other. I had long term SO before, not married and I can't imagine how he'd not know I had student loans etc? That's weird. Either superficial relationship or she was deliberately secretive. In that many years she managed to keep a secret until now? That's a very long time to keep your partner in the dark. Do they never discuss expenses and finances?  I don't get it.  That's so bizarre.  

We keep separate accounts but we still talk to each other like even random exclamation "oh I am tired of this stupid bill" "I wish I could pay it sooner", do they not talk to each other? This was kept a secret deliberately otherwise no way he wouldn't know. You seem oddly defensive of this person and their doomed marriage.  

She screwed up, has apologized, and is going to continue to take care of her debt. He had a right to be mad but now, instead of trying to move forward, he is just being an abusive jerk. If he wants a divorce, he needs to just say so.

Regardless of whether anybody thinks it was a lie, a lie by omission, dishonesty, or whatever, the real problem now is that he is not speaking to her. Not speaking to your spouse and not sleeping together for 3 weeks can be very damaging to a marriage. I can't even imagine not speaking to my husband for 3 WEEKS. Or the resentment I would have for him if he gave me the silent treatment for that long. And, if he were mad at me, HE would be the one sleeping on the couch (which I have never really been a believer in, it solves nothing).

He would damn sure be taking care of own mother.

I'm glad she is considering leaving him. This relationship had a number of red flags from him isolating her away from her friends, using her as a carer for his mother all the way through to his over reaction and prolonged "punishment" for her revelation and now his own inability to see parellels between their situations and respective debts. They don't sound like a good match.

I'm glad she has a good friend like you to help her out.  

I'd say the only truly unconditional love we feel is for our children.
 

All other loves are conditional as we expect things in return (not material things I mean) we have expectations and preferences and standards that we expect from a partner (unless we are too desperate to even duscriminate). I see a lot on this board how men treating women like crap but women stick around being doormats because their love is "unconditional". It's stupid and naive to be that desperate for a man to take on a man "unconditionally"
  
my response to all this is the same as from the beginning of  this thread.

People must disclose before marrying. This belief how they have rights to be private about their  affairs and can omit whatever they want blew in their faces.  it's also telling how after 8 years they weren't comfortable enough to even share with each other. What a superficial relationship. They are better off divorcing.  

 Hope she can get through it quick and painless and I'd not be moving out to care for his mother. That doesn't seem wise to me.