I think I am starting to get it

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I have been trying really hard to see the situation with SD with empathy and looking for a positive outcome. Probably because of my guilt for dealing with things over the last few years by withdrawing. I was never mean to her, but she took my withdrawal as not wanting her here. I have been trying to put myself in her shoes, I am sure she has a ton of feelings she is dealing with and it's my job as an adult to try to help guide her though it. But I don't think I can...and I don't think the feelings she is having are what I was thinking and hoping they were. I thought she may feel hurt and rejected, and wishing that things could be better between all of us, or at least her and her dad... but from what I am seeing, I think she just wants to hurt him.

DH again extended an invitation on Monday for her to come for dinner last night, which got ignored.....other than her texting each night this week that she was "stopping by" to grab something (I thought she moved out), he does not get an response from her. But he still reached out yesterday to see if she was coming. She responded an hour before he was planning to get her to say she forgot she had therapy. He said, that's cool, we can eat a little later, come on over. As we were making dinner, she texted to say she was stopping by......could it be? Could she really be coming to visit? Are those angels I hear in the background? Nope, she was just coming in to grab a shirt as BM waited in the driveway.

I knew she wouldn't come for dinner, but I don't get this whole dropping in thing. If you dont respect your dad or want to be around him, why do you keep coming to his house??? Especially after you are blowing off his dinner invitation, you are going to "stop in" in the middle of it??? You may recall, she did this same thing last week, he invited her with not response until she "stopped in" as we were cleaning up to collect pictures off her walls to take to her new master bedroom at BMs. This is just plain mean....am I right??

Since she "moved out", DH has walked around like someone kicked his puppy. He has been drinking more, not excessively but I notice the presence of beer often. We talked about it the other night, and he admitted it's because he does not know how to deal with this. That's because he is not dealing with it, he has not said one word to her about what she is doing, nothing about prom, nothing about ignoring him, he just invites her to dinner and makes sure the front door is open whenever she wants to "stop by".

I can't change him and what he is doing, I know that. But I am not going to keep watching this go on. It does affect me directly, in that I have a DH who deflates after every interaction with her, it is impacting his overall mood and well being. It affects me indirectly in that I can't stand to see anyone acting like this, let alone someone who is able to take advantage of my home and spouse. And I hate that things are this way, this is never what I wanted for my relationship with my stepdaughter.

What I would really like to do right now is first of all pack up the stuff scattered around her room, clothes and toiletries. If it's so hard for her to go back and forth all the time, then let me help. Just take it all. Second, I would have DH stop inviting her to dinner here, if he wants to keep chasing her that is on him and he can try to get her to go out, but I am done with the roller coaster and her fake politeness when she walks in my door. Finally I would let her know her birthday trip is not happening. There is no way I am going to spend hundreds of dollars to give someone an amazing trip when they can't respect my home and spouse, I don't care if we said we would or if it's her birthday. I don't think DH will take it away, but I have decided I am not going. I feel terrible because it was supposed to be a fun trip and I don't want to leave him on his own, but it's more important to me not to continue to feed this behavior. I have been looking for a reason to go, but she just keeps piling on reasons not to.

So yeah...if you read this far, thank you....just needed to get this into words. I have given DH a few weeks to mope and mourn and keep trying, but I am ready to draw the line. I will always treat SD with kindness, but that doesn't mean laying back and letting her steamroll. And I am going to need him to figure out how to man up and work this out because I am done letting this impact our lives. Loving someone doesn't mean they have a right to treat you like dirt, he needs to figure that out

I've been where you are (am

I've been where you are (am still where you are, really), and I know how hard it is to watch your spouse's kid treat him like dirt on their shoe. Ugh, my SS19 was alienated for 3 years and now that he's back, he's still hot and cold with DH. Sometimes he responds to his texts, sometimes he doesn't. He ignores him for holidays, then lets him meet his girlfriend. Sometimes he'll go out to dinner, sometimes he won't.

I've just let DH decide how to deal with it, understanding that I want no part of it. I do give him advice if he asks for it, but mostly I just have made clear that I don't want to see SS. This was hard for me, because SS is not rude to me and has not ever been, but I just can't stand the delusional state he lives in and listening to him lie.

As for his moping, my DH went through some of that when SS was first alienated. Finally he was able to let go and focus on rebuilding our life, his life, and taking care of himself. Your DH needs to move on and not stay focused on this. She will be back, she's not totally gone, and she doesn't need to find a broken and miserable father.

Thanks Tog, your words the

Thanks Tog, your words the last few weeks have really helped me, and I appreciate you taking the time to share them. I believe this will all work out eventually...or it won't, who can say. I feel awful for my DH and I don't want to add to his stress, but I am not going to live my life based on ups and downs from what SD is doing. I so wish things were different, I have really been working on myself to let some things go and wanted to move forward to be able to have some kind of relationship with SD, but right now I don't want to see her or be involved at all. So until DH can figure things out, I think I am going to have to make that my boundary. Last night I felt so angry at DH as he just said "bye, love you, have a great night!!" As she is sailing out the door with her stuff. I can't let this come between he and I, so its going to have to be separate from me right now.

The ups and downs were the

The ups and downs were the worst for me - so I work hard at disengaging from those. I also work on, as you are, changing how I think about why SS does what he does. I realize I always think the worst of him (and BM) and why they do what they do. So if he cancels on DH, I start to think that he's doing it on purpose to hurt DH, etc. But the truth is, I know SS is scattered, he always has been. DH can be too. DH has forgotten (truly) to bring SS's Christmas gift to him for the last 2 times he met him, and I don't interpret that as him trying to hurt SS, because he isn't. My interpretations affect my mood, so when I find myself angry at SS, I try to come up with alternate interpretations.

For example, DH recently asked SS if he played in any local gaming tournaments. He got no response. I was originally angry and figured he was withholding information from DH to hurt him. But then I thought, well, maybe he's been kicked out of these tournaments and doesn't want DH to know. Or maybe he couldn't qualify for them and is embarrassed. There are lots of ways to interpret what happens, and how I interpret it affects my mood and how I give advice to DH.

As for the room - I waited a good chunk of time to clean it out, because I was sad and upset about the alienation, too. DH said he didn't expect it to be left as a shrine to SS, so I finally cleaned it out and got rid of all of his clothes, but left his toys and other stuff important to him. After he turned 18, I boxed up stuff DH thought he would want and made it more of an office.

Yep, some of it is just SD..

Yep, some of it is just SD...she and her BM are kind of last minute people, and that has been one of the conflicts with us because we like plans and schedules. We are more than willing to compromise, but seems like SDs expectation has been her way or we are awful and don't want her here. SD has never been great with text responses, but there is a noticeable difference between the times all is well, and when she is not happy about something. If she texts or calls DH and he does not respond literally right away, she gets upset and blows up his phone. So it's not like she doesnt understand what she is doing. But I am keeping in mind that she is doing what she has been allowed to do for years. Maybe she nor BM had malicious intent, but whatever is behind it all needs to stop because the actions are hurtful.

I was just talking to DH and told him he needs to have a conversation with her to find out where her head is. They only seem to talk about things when someone is upset and they just end up sniping at each other. He said he has a hard time talking about these things without getting upset, but that it is a good idea and he needs to work on that. I am trying to get him to see that talking about things in a genuine way will be so much more valuable than ignoring the problems and trying to buy her off

But. I said my piece, it is my turn to work on myself and stepping back from it all. After I clean up her room, which he did give me permission to do. I am not cleaning it out, just getting the stuff off the floor, making the bed, and putting her clothes together so she can take it all with her next time...the in and out just feels like it's trying to instigate. But her room will be here like normal when she is ready

On another note, what kind of gaming does your SS do? Our boys were into tabletop games at one time and did some local tournaments , not sure if that is what you were talking about

Video gaming. He claims he

Video gaming. He claims he plays in all kinds of tournaments and has made money, but I think it's mostly BS and wishful thinking.

Yes, I left his room as it was for a while. Now it's an office/guest room, since he's never going to live with us.

You are right when you say

You are right when you say you are going to disengage from it all.

If DH wants to still take the trip, let him. And be honest when he asks why you are not attending. 'sorry DH but I don't believe it is OK to support her poor decisions by rewarding her'.

As for her room - go give it a good cleaning. Put all the things away and create a more guest room feel. It is your home. She left it. That doesn't mean you will have to keep a shrine forever.

The drops ins, eventually there won't be anything left for her to take then it's over. This is just their way of throwing it back in your face. So give it to them. Wave to BM. Say hello and goodbye to SD with a smile. 'hey SD I cleaned your room and added a new bedspread and throw pillows to spruce it up what do you think'!

Your DH's mood, ignore that too. Plan fun outings. Any talk about SD is met with a 'oh wow, uh huh' but don't engage. Live your life together like SD is not a thought.

The worse thing you can do is play into the emotional talk. Because anything you say will be used against you once SD starts coming back around, and she will.

Stay non emotional about the entire thing.

Agreed, you are right on all

Agreed, you are right on all of this. I an deciding whether I should clean up her room on my own, or make sure DH is ok with it first. I did mention it the other night, and he just kind of laughed and said something about charging her a storage fee. Yes, non emotional is the way to go...I am going to be nothing but sweet to her or BM if we happen to cross paths. Unless I find BM in my house, that's another story!

I remember this act from my

I remember this act from my SD too. It's maddening.

But your original assessment might still be true ("I thought she may feel hurt and rejected, and wishing that things could be better between all of us, or at least her and her dad.") and it might be the reason she "drops in."

Maybe dropping in is her way of trying to get what she wants or it's her way to be heard...almost like a cry for attention. She WANTS you to know she's unhappy with something, so she's partially freezing you out. She wants to engage you or him, she probably wants you to ask "what's wrong?" she wants you to know she's not OK with how things are. Maybe she's not sure why she's angry. Maybe she's not sure how to verbalize it or exactly what she's feeling, but she clearly wants you to know it's not good.

I don't know how old she is or what you've tried in the past, but dad should put down his beer and have a frank talk with her. Why not just ask her? The attention he shows her by asking might be enough to open the communications. She wants to feel like she matters, especially to him. So ignoring the message she's sending is exactly the opposite of what she probably wants.

So if he throws some attention at her, see what happens. Maybe it would be better for them to take the trip alone -- they can continue to explore where their relationship is failing.

BUT...The problem with him throwing attention at her is this: you are on the outside looking in. If he wins her over and repairs their relationship, that doesn't do a thing for your relationship with her and you will end up the third wheel (which is what happened in my case in this exact same situation).

So, as he's throwing that attention at her, he MUST be very firm about your place in the hierarchy. He must talk you up and embed in the conversation with her an expectation of respect from her toward you, the expectation that you're not going anywhere and are part of the family unit, even if you aren't in the room with them. THIS is where most fathers fail, I think, because they've finally won their kid back and that's all that matters to them. The fact that the kid has probably shifted their anger from the bio parent to the step isn't really solving the problem and it makes the step a scapegoat, but because dad has his kid back, all's good to him.

I think it's great that you've tried to see it from her perspective. And I think you're probably spot on that the kid feels rejected, etc. How you repair that, though, makes all the difference in your place as the stepparent going forward. Your husband is the one who must address it, but if he just does what's good for him, you will become the evil stepmum. He can win her over WHILE setting expectations with her regarding how she interacts with you, but I think it probably takes a planned approach to do this. If you leave it to chance, you WILL end up the scapegoat.

I encouraged my husband to reach out to his daughter when she was pulling this. He did. They're great now. They're totally in love. But I sit at home alone when he sees her because he never would stand up to her shitty treatment of me. As soon as she was on good terms with him again, that's all that mattered.

Don't make this mistake. Talk to your husband about how he approaches this before he does it, or approach her together. I swear there is no greater hell than encouraging a relationship between a father and daughter and then becoming everyone's target.

This time actually, her upset

This time actually, her upset is not primarily directed st me for once. Lol. SD is turning 16 next week. We have been through this to a lesser degree before, mostly due to expectations that I put in place, he agreed with, and tried to enforce. When she doesn't like something, she pushes the mommy button and frosts DH out for a while. This time happened because he caught her in a lie, and removed her from her friend's house....a few weeks previously she got drunk at a party and when he tried to enforce the consequences here that BM would not, SD did not come for her time here. So he backed down. The weekend of the party lie was the first one she actually appeared to be staying, and I think she assumed it would be business as usual of her doing what she wants. But DH has decided to take a stand on the drinking and is definitely paying more attention to what is going on. BM came to the rescue, let's SD do what she wants, and even just moved her in to the master bedroom at her house. DH is the villian, BM is the hero. So we know why SD is upset, this time anyway, it's because he is trying to parent.

However, I totally agree they need to have a genuine talk and I told him that. There is a lot that has built up over the years, and I am sure she has a lot more that is bothering her. And he needs to be able to explain his side also. He said he is afraid to because she usually gets snippy, he gets angry and ends up being sarcastic...they are similar in that way and just end up pushing each others buttons. He has never been good about asking questions and getting to what is behind things with his kids, it's like he thinks they will get offended or it's none of his business I do think that is something that would help for sure, thank you for that.

We have been where you are describing, kind of he and SD against me. We can't survive that happening again. I will always encourage their relationship, but I know I need to be aware of that dynamic so that he and I can stay healthy also. I appreciate your advice

I understand what you feel

But SD is just playing some type of game. You don’t know when to make dinner, she will be here at 5 o no 6 or maybe 7.. Not eating at all. You have to stop the game playing for SO and your own sanity. Dinner is at 6 she show up or not dinner is at 6. Clean up her room to stop the coming over to pick up something. She comes over to se DH or not. No bring an ATM for her and BM

realise what is going to happen will happen. You have no control over it. Seams like your DH has no control over it also. Keeping the door open is one thing being a door mat is another. Being at the bad end of a crazy SD is something else

I agree with you, and your

I agree with you, and your words then other day helped me start seeing things really for what they are. I am ready to put some things in place for all of our benefits. I felt a flood of anger yesterday as she went prancing out the door, as I saw the look on DHs face. If the in and out continues, those emotions are going to bubble up from one of us and something may be said out of being upset. I am wondering if that is what she is looking for, so she can feel justified to cut him out. I don't want to go there, I want to keep things calm and open so that maybe we can repair some day. So part of that is removing the "things" she needs to drop in for. She is welcome to come for a visit. She is welcome to live here. But this isn't her closet. Thanks for your advice Harry, it has helped

Don't over complicate it.

Don't over complicate it. Change the frickin locks and inform her she left, it is no longer her home. Stuff all of her shit in trash bags and old boxes, stack them on the side of the house, text her to come get it immediately or it is going on the curb on garbage day, and let her feel the full weight of her choices.

My GM used to say "If you can't listen and learn you will have to feel." Time for her to feel. The only Skid feeing you and DH should be considering is forcing her to feel the consequences of her decisions. Beyond that, her feelings are irrelevant. Feelings are irrelevant other than feelings and emotion are definately the spice of life. However, in terms of lifes progression, they don't matter. What matters is quality of decision, quality of effort, and appropriate behaviors. The quality of her decisions sucks, her effort sucks, and her behaviors suck. So.... show her what suck really is.

Do not give her or the situation more space in your head. Team with her dad to give her clarity that her choices have consequences, apply those consequences, and give her the message that when she gains clarity to give you a call when she is ready to pull her head out of her ass.

IMHO of course.

Good luck.

I hear you, Rags, I know it

I hear you, Rags, I know it looks like I keep just complaining but I really am paying attention. I am just going to go about it a little more gently for now, I will save the hard core for if the situation escalates. At this point ANYthing would send a message, because she has total freedom to do or say whatever she wants with no repercussions whatsoever. I talked to DH earlier and he agreed that I can pack up her things I am just going to clean her room up, and get her clothes together so she can take them on her next drop in. The in and out has to stop, it's just keeping the tensions high. I am not ready to change the garage code, but it's on reserve if things were to ramp up. Right now all I want to do is minimize the disruptive hurt. I appreciate your tough love stance....and i have read enough of your story to know that it worked in your situation. Thanks for the input you have shared!

I know this is tough but SD

I know this is tough but SD ignoring text messages, responding when she feels like it and "dropping in" to pick up stuff has to end. This is causing your H more heartbreak. Every time he invites her and there is no response, its another jab at his heart. Can you suggest to H a date to clear out her room and place everything in boxes/ bags and when she "drops by" she can pick them up when BM drives her? You have to start somewhere why not the room?

This can be a power trip with her...coming in as she pleases, hurting her father emotionally and walking out. This is very hurtful and he has to attempt to put an end to it.

I actually got his ok to do

I actually got his ok to do that today, so I will be helpfully gathering her things and straightening her room..yes, totally has to stop. I am trying to point out to him that he keeps opening himself for more hurt by chasing her right now. I suggested he give it a rest, and then have a genuine talk once he feels like he can calmly do that. He is hearing me, but this is hard for him to do....he is not great with facing conflict, he is more of a go along to get along kind of guy. But that is part of what led us here, he has done along with to much. In my totally objective opinion of course. Ha. I appreciate your input I am glad to see that I am not alone in feeling like this situation is not something that is ok to keep on with

I reckon this is a sort of narcissistic manipulative tactic

Keep you all in anticipation like for hubby to be excited about her arrival thinking great i’ll have time but she pops in for barely a minute to grab something and then she is out so hubby is hot and cold with his feelings about her. Definitely part of pas.

thats why she says yup should be fine or hints/suggests a yes then last minute change is a no go then last minute yes then buggers off after a minute or no show

its to play with hubbys emotions and taunt him. She enjoys manipulating her dad this way and enjoys the fact your husband is waiting for her (putting his life on hold) it feeds into her ego that she is the centre of his world when hubby should get on with life.

Don’t have dinner waiting, watch tv/cuddle etc, let her walk into home seeing that or you both reading a book, dancing/having fun etc...

Yep, you are right. We have

Yep, you are right. We have been going about life for the most part, yesterday ahe just happened to come when dinner was being made but it was so sad to see the hopefulness on DHs face when he heard she was coming only to have it crushed. The way things have been happening does feel like manipulation - I get she is upset about some things here and she doesn't like to be told no. But games aren't going to work for anyone's benefit Thank you for your advice

Stepper47 all my 3 skids(sd23, ss20, sd14)

do this to hubby. Its such disrespect and i keep thinking back to my younger years how my parents would have disciplined the shit out of me even as an 18 yr old. I keep asking myself how on earth will my 2 toddlers want a relationship with their half siblings when they see the disrespect, narcissism and manipulation from them?

i know some here will say disengage but my husband says he needs helps, he’s clueless how to manage and address his skids issues and he knows its not a healthy life to live

i had to ask him, is that the way you want them treating others? Will you be proud of that? Of course not!! How could anybody?

so i explained to hubby exactly as i told you, why settle for the dodgy crumbs when you deserve way more? If it weren’t for you working your arse off they’d have nothing. Your mistake was marrying their mum and having 3 kids with someone you knew from day 1 was incapable of nurturing. Hubby is a good natured person, always helping others less fortunate and people take advantage of that at times

i had to ask hubby how can you call skids our kids siblings? They do not deserve the respect of sister or brother and he agreed. I said it upset me they got that title by default when they truly never wanted anything to do with them. But they hate our family including hubbys loves them very much and talking about them so they need attention back on them.

i had to just say to hubby how can you allow skids to behave that way, enable and encourage it because that destroys all the positive nurturing and parenting i’m mainly doing with kids when hubby is at work.

i had to say “you effed up the 1st 3 and now you wanna eff up our 2? Over my dead body!! I’ll divorce you before it happens”. Now hubby has slowly gotten better but remember there is like 25 yrs of toxic crap we have to detox and that doesn’t change overnight

since late last year when skids purposely cut off contact, hubby ignores it when he’d daily ask sd’s what they had for dinner and how was their day when they couldn’t care about hubby, when ss says he is coming back from university and doesn’t show up because daddy told him he’s been an arsehole whose sole mission is to make me and our 2 toddlers feel unwelcome at home and make excuses for that behaviour and that he needs to do chores, hubby ignores him and doesn’t message him but coems home to a lovely wife for dinner and gets sex in the evening. What does that tell hubby? Skids are a never ending source of stress, wife and our 2 toddlers relieve it because we try to be a solid unit.

thing is skids envy that but make no effort to change because they are incapable of it, you know because they are children of divorce so everyone feel sorry please

Oh gosh, I can't imagine

Oh gosh, I can't imagine having young children with DH and going through this. It was hard enough having my own teenage son in it, who is the oldest of our 3 kids. I have had to explain to him before why he is expected to help around the house and SD is not, he has also noticed that SD can act however she wants but still does whatever she wants. He has always "got" it, as in, she is not my child and I am not raising her, and he thinks SD is a bit of a spoiled brat.

I am glad your DH is starting to come around to seeing what is healthy and what is not. My DH has finally started to admit things are not as they should e, and has admitted there is a problem and asked for my help at times. But it seems when SD gives him a glimmer of hope, he starts to revert to being all aboard the SD train. My favorite is when he asks me why I am so upset about something that's going on. Like I am not supposed to have feelings and I haven't just been watching him be devastated over how whe treats him. That happened tonight. He had " a talk" with SD where it sounds like she wanted to argue at first, but when he mentioned not feeling like her bday trip is going to happen next week, she said that things are going to be ok and they are going to work it out. After all, he promised he would take her for her bday. So he asked me to please go, and then acted surprised that I am still not. Sometimes I feel like I am in the twilight zone.

Thanks so much for sharing your story!

Sometimes us steps try to

Sometimes us steps try to help our SO by putting ourselves in the middle to help communication or fix failed relationships...reality is that this only puts a target on your back as someone to be sacrificed when the blame game starts. Let the two of them keep it between the two of them. If it matters enough to him or her they will stop playing this hot/cold game and have the conversation they need to have to fix things.

You are correct. I do need

You are correct. I do need to figure out how to disengage, but that is hard when I do want to support my spouse. However, our conversation tonight reminded me I am in a losing position. He took my advice regarding having a conversation with SD, and asked her why she was treating him this way. She said "you know why I am upset" and eventually he got out of her that she doesnt feel welcome here but didnt give specifics. To me, that is a convenient reason that turns her behavior around on us. He said he told her from the way she has been acting, he is not feeling like taking her bday trip next week. That brought on the "but you promised you would take me for my birthday!", so he asked if things were going to go back to her ignoring him when they get back and she said, oh no, we will work this out.

I did not ask about any of this, he shared it. I wish he hadn't because it went right through me. I feel like he just gave her the power even more...I don't know what he expected her to say - yes, dad, I am still going to treat you like this? Of course she is going to say what he wants to hear, this trip is something she has wanted, she is allowed to invite a friend or 2 and it was going to be all about them shopping and doing what SD wants to do. Then he asked me to please go.....I said, there is nothing you have told me here that makes me want to change my mind. All I know is that now SD will probably play nice for the next week to get her trip, and you are still going to go spend hundreds of dollars on someone who shows the opposite of respect you. Seems like buying her off to me. It turned into an argument, with his old defensiveness coming to the surface. He claims I haven't wanted to go since SD came home drunk (true, kind of ruined my enthusiasm for doing any extras for her when she had no consequences for that) and acted like I am trying to ruin the trip. "Why are you so upset about this, Stepper". You're right, DH, why am I wasting my energy and stress on your mess. You are now on your own with this situation, keep patching over the problems and have fun on your trip.

All I want him to do is tell her - we are not going next week because you and I have some repairing to do. And then give it some time and see what happens. I am not saying never take her, but in my mind he is just continuing to feed and reinforce that how she treats him and our family love is ok. So instead of this trip truly being positive and where we all go on good terms, he is going to carry forward with our money and against my wishes, all out of fear that she will be mad if he doesn't or the idea that this will make everything better. I definitely have to let all this go a d step back, I am laying here typing on a blog about it when I have to be up in 3 hours. Not good

You are correct. I do need

Went through the same thing

Went through the same thing with OSD, maybe you saw my posts about the Europe trip. DH took her with us anyway, in spite of her not speaking or contacting with him for a year. He even admitted that she only started agreeing to two very short visits two week before the trip because she realized she WOULD be left out.

DH was sooooo exiited she was going! I was not. She was on ''good behavior" for the trip with a couple nasty slip ups. I did not engage unless I had to.

It's been three weeks since our return and OSD is back to silence, as I expected. DH swears he is not facilitating anything more, but I don't believe it. I just don't help.

Yes, all her stuff was boxed up and the room thoroughly cleaned about 5 months after she left. That did help DH actually.

You are here

I think I am starting to get it