Crossroads, should I or shouldn't I?
My SO has been divorced for 8 years. He and his ex (BM) co-parent 50-50 and she has her own SO of six years. I get along with his ex just fine. I am child-free by choice. I have never liked, nor enjoyed the company of children for a variety of reasons. His children are now 10 (boy) and 13 (girl). They are not mean kids but they are extremely spoiled and misbehaved. When SO and I started dating I knew he had two kids. He told me up front that his children are his #1 priority and that they are a package deal. Okay. He also said that I could be as involved or uninvolved with them as I wanted. Fair enough. He said, "they have a mom" so they don't need another. Good! At first, things seemed great because he had them every other week. He would spend a week at my house and the next week he'd go back to his apartment and was a full-time dad. Meanwhile, I had a week to do what I wanted, when I wanted, etc. I met the kids and they were fine. I started spending the nights on Saturdays on the weekends when he had them and got to spend more time with the three of them. He was an involved dad, etc. I then started coming over for dinner on Wednesdays on the weeks when he had them. They used to all eat on the couch watching TV. I suggested that when I come over, we should eat at the dinner table (what a concept!) This is when I noticed that the then 8 year old boy couldn't use a knife and fork and only ate with his hands. None of them (including dad) used napkins, nobody washed their hands before dinner, the children didn't know how to set a table nor did they offer to help bring out dishes or clear the table. (Yes, I was raised to do all those things). I became annoyed and started noticing the lack of rules, consequences, etiquette, and basic hygiene in the house.
Mind you, when SO lived with me during his off weeks, he did dishes at my house, ate at the table, used napkins, etc. He used to offer to mow the lawn at my house and scoop litter boxes, etc. This hygiene thing only happened at his house. On the nights when I spent the night, I noticed that the children were never told to wash up or even brush their teeth...so they didn't. The SAME bar of soap sat on the bathroom sink for months! I kept taking mental notes but not saying anything. The floor at his house was always icky, the rooms were in disarray, the couch had dirty blankets, there were socks everywhere, it was gross. When the kids would bathe, they asked their dad to "run the tub" for them. They only took baths, no showers...After a few months of this and when I grew a little more confident in my position there (I was probably going to stick around) I brought up some things: I told him that I noticed that his kids were always missing school because they were "sick". They missed about 4 school days a month. I suggested that they are missing too much school and that maybe if they took showers they wouldn't be wading in their own germs...I also pointed out that his then 8 year old had a speech impediment that should have been outgrown by now (a heavy lisp that made speech almost incomprehensible). I said that some of my best memories were of family dinners and that it was a good time to model behavior such as "please" and "thank you". I felt like "super nanny" had just shown up to point all this out. He was gracious and thanked me. He implemented sitting at the table, etc.
It has been two years. We have remained living separately but have been considering moving in together. In the past two years, I've spent more time with the children and the hygiene has only slightly improved, the speech is being treated by a speech pathologist, both children are being seen by psychiatrists because the 13 year old daughter has anger/rage issues and the boy has anxiety. Yes, I pushed for professional help after his daughter started cutting herself, getting into trouble at school, started refusing to go to school, broke a glass door, destroyed her room, broke furniture, threatened to run away...and the boy is hypersensitive, throwing crying fits, sleeping with the light on, being really clingy and a hypochondriac (oh, I am a psychologist. I didn't mention that).
I've read a lot of your blogs. I know that some of you have evil SKids and evil BMs. These are alright kids with behavioral problems, but I know that even though they are both getting treatment, I don't know that I want to go through teenage years with kids who already have serious psychological issues. I divorced my first husband due to his bipolar disorder and my second, because of his severe anxiety disorder. I like my space, I like things a certain way, I have worked very hard to have my own things, my house, I collect antiques, I like privacy, cleanliness, and most of all, no drama. My biological family lives in another state and I moved out about 20 years ago so I wouldn't have to be sucked in by that. I keep my visits short and once every couple of years. I like it that way. I am not about to move in to a "family" with known psychological issues, the potential for huge drama, broken furniture, suicide attempts, who knows. Both my SO and his ex wife are ex-addicts, both in recovery. The kids were taken by the state way before I showed up in the picture and before they sobered up. Bottom line, I have built just the kind of life I want. On the weeks that my SO is with me, we are really good together, but as soon as I am around the three of them together, I get tense, angry, get migraines, notice that he doesn't set boundaries, they are entitled, both have better iphones than either me or my SO do, they don't clean up after themselves, they don't respect property, etc. And this is PRE-ADOLESCENCE.
Would you move in with clear rules into a house or keep the status quo until??? Do I have the "dream" arrangement??
Oh, SO wants us to go on "family vacation" and his ex wife and SO just took a two-week vacation with the children and when she came back, she told SO that "she's done" with the children. That they were so "horrible" the whole time and ruined the vacation for everyone. The daughter locked herself in the bathroom and refused to come out, she and her boyfriend fought over the children's behavior all the time. He told her she was a terrible mother and that no wonder the kids hate her (??) and she says they're probably going to break up because on the weeks when the kids are at her house, her boyfriend avoids the three of them and just plays videogames in the bedroom or sleeps on the couch, leaves early, comes late, and just avoids their company altogether. It seems that living with the children (granted he's done this for 6 years now) is tearing apart their relationship.
I have made rules when they come to my house that my bedroom is off-limits and so is the "cat room" where the cats go to run away from the dog because that is their "safe space" from the boy who is always trying to handle the cats and trying to hug them or pick them up or pet them when they clearly want to be left alone. He is just very overbearing with them and even my dog hits her limit of cuddles when he's around. He still can't use a knife or fork, he doesn't say please or thank you, neither clears the table (they just get up like it's a restaurant). The one time I made a meal for thanksgiving and even made dessert they said it was gross and it tasted like play dough. You're welcome!! I never cooked again at their house. I am afraid that living together will ruin our relationship but I don't know that I can avoid them forever. I met his extended family over the holidays and let's just say I know why nobody uses napkins, nobody says please, thank you, excuse me, etc. There is burping and gas-passing and all the kinds of things that were non-existent in my house. I just want a partner with whom I can grow old with and who is not having to be "trained" to brush his teeth, wash his hands, behave at the table, fill up the gas if he borrows my car or at least puts gas in the car when he borrows the car (which he does often). There's so much more, but that does it for now. Sorry.
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NO, NO, NO
You colllect antiques And they will break them.. you are not on the same page at all. You are glossing over the problem. Thes kids have mental problems, not just delayed. BM must of been on drugs when she was PG, 13 yo girls don’t want to smell, they are after boys. They shower like twice a day. What do kids At school say to them, make fun of them.
This is not going to work. If it was just great, you would not be on these boards
You're right. I am on these
You're right. I am on these boards because I feel that visceral "hell no" when I am around the children. I knew it was a "package deal" and trying to have him to myself is selfish of me. It doesn't do him or the kids any favors. Even their mother is annoyed by them but in their dad's eyes, they are the cutest, smartest, most perfect beings. I swear, he sees nothing until I point it out. Denial is strong in this one.
Yes, you have the dream arrangement!
Keep it that way. There is no way it will work for you to live with them full time. No woman could do that and stay sane. Keep things as they are, only don't let the kids come in your house, or break up.
There is definitely something wrong with an 8 year old who can't (or won't) use silverware. Doesn't it bother your that your boyfriend isn't getting the kid the help that he needs?
Does he take advantage of you in other ways other than borrowing the car and not putting gas in it? Are there more negatives than just the children? You seem like a very "together" woman - please make sure that you aren't "settling" too much in your quest for someone to grow old with.
Thank you for confirming what I already knew in my heart
I suspected that I was right to keeps separate and let him and his ex raise their children. You're also right that co-mingling in one house would not work. I would become maid, chef, chauffeur, psychiatrist, case manager, and would probably resent my SO so much that I'd never share a bed with him again...
The non-silverware user is now ten and still has this problem Just this morning I told my SO that I don't blame the kid, but blame both parents for not teaching him basic tasks. He seemed hurt but agreed. I suggested he practice during non-meal times. (every time i make a criticism i always make a suggestion on how to fix it). And yes, it very much bothers me that the parents seem to think it is developmental and they will just learn on their own or at school. (um, no, parents teach home things. teachers do other things).
As for the taking advantage of, the first full year of our relationship my SO was under-employed. I helped with transportation and meals, I had food delivered to them when I knew they didn't have enough. I also paid for us to travel internationally with the idea that he'd pay me back as soon as he was employed. I drove us around when he didn't have a car and only used public transportation because I believed he would gain full employment. I made a significant loan to him but asked him to sign a promissory note and had him make payments monthly or pay a fee (I am also an attorney). He did make payments, he did get a good job, he did purchase a car, but the power differential took a toll. We had a lot of problems the first year for which we went to couples' counseling. Now he has paid me back and all that, but sometimes he can be thoughless about things like putting gas in the car if he borrows it (his AC broke so he borrowed mine). As educated and independent as I am, I still want to know that a man could in a pinch jump in and help with a changing a tire, fixing something, helping me carry things, and he does for the most part...He's not perfect and he's definitely come a long way from the man I met two years ago. Therapy helped a lot. He did not have a good role model for a father/husband so he seems to be winging this whole adulting thing. Whereas I have been planning, he's been winging it his whole life. (Note: the two academics who are my ex-husbands clearly had issues as well, so I thought I'd try the unorthodox type). ha!
Because the children are high
Because the children are high needs they won’t leave you guys alone even after they become adults. You will always have to deal with them being in your space for the long haul if you stick with this guy. My DH has the same situation as yours. Their house and lack of hygiene is gross. Skids caused BM to go through three live in boyfriends in five years. Gross and mean skids along with DHs poor behaviors resulted in his fiancé (me) canceling the wedding and moving out. Parents with difficult children should not date until they clean up (pun intended) their kid situation honestly. Because his daughter has so much jealousy, is needy and has mental health problems (social anxiety, depression, and low self esteem) she won’t be out of his hair for a long long time. I blame the parents for their kids current state of affairs. DH pushes his kids really hard and calls them stupid and aholes when they don’t perform which has caused them to feel insecure and lack self esteem. His mother did that to him and that’s why he’s a mess.
If you jump into this
If you jump into this situation you'd have to start prescribing yourself medication to deal with it.
"Do I have the "dream" arrangement??"
No, but your SO does.
"I just want a partner with whom I can grow old with and who is not having to be "trained" to brush his teeth, wash his hands, behave at the table, fill up the gas if he borrows my car ..."
Then keep looking hun. You're with a fixer up that's going to take a lot of *remodeling*. I'm going to take a wild guess and say there are childless men out there that are on your level and more compatible. Sounds like you're attracted to men who are "projects", if you fix them you subconsciously fix whatever issue you had in your family of origion. You may want to tap into some talk therapy and figure your own issues out before you keep wishing away your SO's and his kids faults and issues.
From what you described, it
From what you described, it seems pretty clear which way you should go at the crossroads, and it is NOT toward living with this man and his children. Honestly, it doesn't sound like a fit for what you're looking for in life AT ALL.
If kids have that many problems
Do you think they will move out of SO Home. Or will this be still be going on when kids are 35 ?? Like if they can’t shower or eat. How are They going to get a job and move on there own ?
These kid have major mental problems. Most likely from mother doing drugs when she was PG. There is nothing anybody can do to fix these kids. What you see, is what there. It’s not going to get better. Most likely it will get worst. Except it’s going to become a circus, police, lawyers, courts, DR.Hospital Jail time, around and around it will go
In my opinion, you should cut
In my opinion, you should cut your loses and leave the relationship. Your situation sounds eerily similar to what I dealt and am dealing with with my DH and his kids. One difference is that I was indifferent about children before meeting DH, but during our relationship I realized that I wanted my own kids. DH loves kids (as does his entire family - they are a bunch of procreators) so he was completely onboard. So, we have kid(s) together and I'm stuck in this. But, you seem pretty sure that you don't want your own, so why stay and deal with the stress. From experience, I'll tell you, it doesn't get better enough that I don't want to stay in my room and drink every night. I have an angry SS14 and an anxiety-ridden SD18 and I'm a person who tries to fix people and things. It's tiring and it's not the life I want to live. I think you feel similarly. I think if you stay you will grow to resent your partner. I know I certainly resent mine.
Yes. you are all correct
it is clear what i need to do. So says that he has to stay in town until his youngest goes to college (HAHAHAHA) that is the 10 year old. I will be SHOCKED if the older is not pregnant by 16 and the young one finishes high school. You are right. If they can't manage to wash their hands, not rely on their father to run their baths, there is no way they are going to move out of town, much less get into a decent college (any college). I plan on moving out of the country in the next five years. I have lived in three countries and five US states. I don't linger for a long time in places, jobs, marriages, etc. Somehow I thought this would be different. I thought maybe this one would be stable since he is not a man-child like the ex husbands...but he clearly has his own issues and the biggest being the children he is raising. I have no desire to be a parent. I want to work for another 10 years and then retire. He says he wants that too and would love to move internationally with me (and his kids will be out of the house, so says he) but at this rate I don't think they will be. I will definitely NOT be moving in. I will maintain my distance from the children and let him and his ex wife be parents. I have a good job that I like, excellent benefits, renting my own place, and generally enjoying my life. He knows I do not intend on marrying a third time and that I am not going to purchase a home because I am not willing to make that kind of commitment. He knows perfectly well where I stand in terms of children (all children, not just his) and although I love him dearly, I have worked too damned long and too damned hard to be where I am. Yes, I do take in projects (humans and animals), I do like to rescue and fix, but I also want someone who will take care of ME for once. That has NEVER happened. EVER. My friends say I am "too dominant" or "too alpha" to let anyone else be in charge, but isn't there an equal partnership? Trust me, I have looked and looked. and looked. Every man I've met at my age has children except for my two ex-husbands. hahaha. Neither of them wanted children either. I am still friends with them. They are fantastic people but not husband material for me. Alas, maybe I'm meant to be a crazy cat lady and I am okay with that.
As one childfree woman to
As one childfree woman to another, may I be blunt?
You are dating beneath you, and involved with a man who will never be able to truly be your equal. Why is a question worth exploring, but please extricate yourself from this relationship. There are plenty of other men out there, including ones who practice good hygiene and aren't looking at a lifetime of being saddled with their dirty, disgusting unable-to-launch offspring. Throw this one black, ship him a case of Purell as a parting gift, and get on with your awesome life.
Bingo!
Many of the men use their offspring as an excuse to revert back to a caveman's lifestyle.
At first, I thought - keep
At first, I thought - keep your current arrangement. My tastes are different. I like the chaos of kids and I have one of my own. But my SSs have fine table manners - and when they have lapses (such as with roast potatoes - they can't keep their hands out of the serving dish!) they are told off. TV is not allowed on during meal times and we have wonderful, if boisterous family dinners, it's one of my favourite times when it's all 5 of us at the table. It's the big family dinners I've always wanted.
But I don't have half the problems with mine that you do with yours. Mine will end up living with us - off and on - as adults, but that is because of the housing market where we live. I accept that - and in fact - they're all good kids so we will be able to handle chores, etc.
I know you don't like children in general - but believe me - there are better kids out there, and even if you don't find a man without kids you can probably have an arrangement like you do now with someone who has basic hygiene standards. Good luck.
I Could
have wrote your story word.for.word.
I too was told by Chef (my SO) that "they already have parents" blah blah as he was eager to lay ground rules...FOR ME!!!! This was RED FLAG number one in a series of MANY!
What he didn't tell me is that neither he nor the Girhippo (BM) had ANY intention of parenting the three peccaries.
I have GROWN children who I raised as a true single, divorced parent, with RESPECT and MANNERS; not a race to the bottom to see whose house would be the house with the fewest rules for behaviour.
He wanted my help to enable financially his Disney/Guilt "parenting" whilst he jettisoned almost his entire pay to CS but otherwise to butt out (other than maid and laundress, etc etc)
My advice in a word is RUN NOW!!