When I side with the BM...
Recently, some of the things said by people on ST who are SMs AND BMs have gotten me thinking. Specifically, yes, this is a forum for stepmoms, but many people on here are both. And those people, at least, can see both sides of the story and have some sympathy for the BM perspective in the SM/BM struggle.
I think it's a good thing that we have BMs on here as well as SMs. Because in my situation, I am not really able to have sympathy for BM. She's just done too many bad things, and the situation she's created has been the result of her own poor choices. So, coming on here helps me to have sympathy for the situation of the BM, even though I can't sympathize with "my" BM.
But I realized, because of Sita's situation and things that BBB and WSM have said, that there is one situation in which I pretty much instinctively side with the BM over the SM. And that's in the situation where the SM started out as the Other Woman, and really did have a hand in breaking up the marriage. In that situation, I feel instinctively that the SM has essentially NO right to expect ANYthing, or to expect the BM or any of the SKIDS to treat her as a stepmom at all.
(*Ducks head in anticipation of projectiles*). Okay, ladies: DISCUSS!
BB
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Comments
Kids should treat all adults
Kids should treat all adults with respect no matter the circumstance. I agree that the animosity will be much thicker if the new relationship begun as an affair, but that is a marital issue and not a kid issue. I don't think the kids should be involved in any of that. Its just not fair to them. Just because dad is a shitty husband does not make him a shitty dad. The two are not synonomous.
Totaly - Great point!! BB -
Totaly - Great point!! BB - I completely understand your thoughts on that... and I don't know really how to answer.
I am of the firm opinion that a happily married man does not cheat. Therefore, if there is another woman - there's 3 things to consider...
1. The marriage was in trouble BEFORE the affair. I'm sorry, but it was. HOW MUCH TROUBLE is up for debate.
2. The other woman - well, as a woman, yes, she should walk away out of respect. But we don't always do what we are supposed to do. None of us is clean.
3. The husband of course. He is the one that made the commitment. But I must ask. If he is unhappy and then meets someone. And doesn't do anything, but then breaks up with his wife, and then goes with the OW... who's fault is it?
And like Totaly says... Just because a dad is a shitty husband, that does not make him a shitty dad. That's super important to remember. While I can understand that BM's have issues with OW because of where the OW was in the BM's relationship, that animosity should not flow over to the children. They don't need to know everything as far as I'm concerned. To me, that's poking your eye out to spite your face.
I am truly sorry if this hurts anyone. And I would be just as devastated if I found out that my husband cheated on me. But I would really look at that as an issue between HIM and I.... not him, the kids, and I.... I don't have to have bios either to have that opinion... because I lived through something similar when I was younger.
*** A rainbow just threw up on me... and now I'm sh*tting glitter! ***
I agree with you 110%,
I agree with you 110%, Stick!
Would the teenage version of myself agree with you? Probably not.
My parents divorced when I was very young over many things, including my dad's affair with my stepmother.
For years, I hated my stepmother with all my being. I felt she was an intruder. On top of that, she is not a very nice person.
I think that so much of how the kids react to this situation depends on how their parents act. In my case, I am extremely fortunate. My mom acted like an adult for me. Did she feel animosity towards my dad and stepmother? I'm sure she did. Feelings of animosity and anger are certainly understandable and human. She complained about my dad and/or stepmother to me. I'm sure she did to her mom, girlfriends and my stepdad, though :). None of them ever bashed my dad or stepmom to me. I most definitely complained about them to my mom, but she always told me, "it's certainly ok to feel hurt and sad, but your dad and stepmother are still adults. You don't have to like your stepmother, or even feel respect for her, but you have to act respectfully and politely towards her." Then she would tell me that I can always come to talk to her, and if she ever found out that I was being rude to my dad or stepmother, I'd be in a lot of trouble. She helped me come up with some really good ways to cope with my stepmother.
My dad is a good man. For a long time, I felt anger towards him, too. I even told him point-blank that I was angry at him. He told me the same thing my mom did. He also made a concerted effort to spend an hour of quality time with just me every weekend.
My mom and dad decided that they would each talk with me about his affair when I was 18 and that it wouldn't be fair to me to have to spend my childhood knowing that he cheated on Mom. As you said, cheating does make a person a bad spouse, but it does not make them a bad parent. Naturally, I was quite hurt when I learned of Dad's cheating and asked him how he could do that to Mom. He told me he had no excuse for his behavior.
When I found out that my stepmother knew my dad was married when she was sleeping with him, I placed all the blame for the affair and my parents' divorce on her. However, DH, SDs, maturity and time have blessed me with the gifts of the ability to forgive and the ability to try to place blame more fairly. My mother has always taken accountability for her part in the demise of her marriage to my dad. As I have grown, I have looked back on my childhood and reminisced on many things. My parents had a very friendly marriage, but not a loving one. Come to think of it, I think my Mom may have Asperger's Syndrome, just like me :). But that's for another thread. We Aspies often struggle in relationships, and I know that my mom and dad both struggled in theirs, just in different ways.
I am sure that the lack of passion was tough on both of them, each in their own way. It was tough for Mom because she had trouble understanding my Dad's cues and often likes to have her own personal space. She also has a few fascinations/obsessions, like me. She tried to show affection to Dad in her own way (which he now acknowledges). Does the lack of passion excuse my Dad's cheating on her? Absolutely not. However, my reminiscing on my childhood has helped me to place blame fairly on both of my parents.
It has also helped me to be a little more fair in placing blame on my stepmother. Yes, she knew my Dad was married. Do I condone her actions? Absolutely not. However, she wasn't the one married to my Mom. My Dad was. Knowing this has relieved me of a lot of angry feelings towards her. Do I love her or like her? No. Do I hate her anymore? No. I won't ever be friends with her, but I've made peace with her in my heart. Over the course of many years, millions of tears, billions of prayers, thousands of counseling sessions, and hundreds of reflections on the past, I've forgiven her (and my Dad, too).
That being said, I can certainly understand why a child feels so angry towards their stepparent if that stepparent was a contributing factor in the demise of their parents' marriage/relationship. How their parents teach them to channel their anger is extremely important. Counseling, karate, tae-kwon-do, art, writing, sports and exercise are all great ways by which to release anger. They are certainly better long-term solutions for the child and their anger than the child's being nasty to the stepparent.
Great post, Anon! Very
Great post, Anon! Very convincing and thought-provoking argument. Thanks for adding your unique perspective!
BB
You are not second best, you are not second class. Do not ever let anyone make you feel that way. - 2BLoved
You're welcome, BBD!
You're welcome, BBD!
There should be level of
There should be level of standard respect but likely won't be; not a like a stepmother who didn't wreck the home. The animosity between the parents and the other woman is usually far too great to keep repressed. Even if they try their darndest to keep the kids out of it. Unfortunately I've been there. My kids didn't know why I was a insane mother bear toward OW but they didn't want to find out so they stayed away from her.
But I think that animosity
But I think that animosity is misplaced. Our husbands make the commitment to us. Not another woman. The animosity should be directed toward him. And if that is the case, then the kids will be expected to take sides on a marital issue.
There may not be commitment
There may not be commitment but the OW knows she stepping on someone else's turf so there will be repercussions. BM will NOT be nice to her. BM will think it is in the best interest of her children to keep them away from someone who in her eyes has poor moral character. What can an immoral person going to teach her kids??? And the father too so now its a household of immoral people.---this is what goes on in the mind cheated spouse whether its wrong or right.
See, that's kind of how I
See, that's kind of how I feel about it, too. That's what I mean by why I side with the BM. I think of Sita's position: if her H and the woman he's having an affair with now end up staying together, this woman will be Sita's daughter's stepmom. And god, who can blame a BM in that position for feeling justified in not wanting her child to be anywhere near that woman?
BB
You are not second best, you are not second class. Do not ever let anyone make you feel that way. - 2BLoved
I'll duck with
I'll duck with you.
Homewreckers burn their bridges before ever crossing them.
Yes I agree too. I do think
Yes I agree too. I do think that the kids should have respect for all adults BUT I know that I would try to stick it to EH and OW all the time.
Deep down I know that may not be right but I would....I am not sure for how long.
HE is still the one that is
HE is still the one that is screwing you. SHE is supporting her husband. All second wives support their husband. It doesn't matter how they got together. You're a second wife. Don't you support your husband?
I don't believe it is the
I don't believe it is the wife's fault at anytime. I think both people had a hand in the breakdown of the marriage, but if there is to be blame for the finality of it, that blame lies with the one that stepped out, not with the other woman/man. They owe no duty to you (generally). The saying goes "all is fair in love and war."
I certainly don't expect the wounded spouse to not resent the situation. I do expect them to put their children first though. The children have no business in the couple part of the marriage and should not be dragged in for the agenda of making the other person suffer. That person, if they were morally corrupt enough to step out on their marriage in the first place, will not suffer nearly as much as the children stuck in the middle.
If they need to vent how much of a slut the OW is to make themselves feel better because they can't reconsile in their minds that the man that promised to love and cherish them till death betrayed them, then they should vent to a friend or relative, not the children.
You said it yourself, most times the men aren't telling the truth to the OW. Why then should she be held more accountable for the affair? You still blame the OW for the lies your EH told. HE pitted you two against each other, yet you are glad HE found someone decent. Your EH is an asshold for doing that to you and yet you seem to have forgiven him and still place all of the blame on the OW.
That IS inexcusable. What
That IS inexcusable. What he is going through with his grown children now is justly deserved. No one should abandon their children for any reason.
My x and my oldest haven't
My x and my oldest haven't spoken since my daughter was 15. She is married now with a son and a baby on the way. He has had NO contact with any of them. He is a pig.
He didn't even show up when either of them graduated High School.
He still talks to my youngest only because she is so afraid that he will write her off like he did the oldest, she bends over backwards to make him happy. She's going in the military and leaves for bootcamp February 7th. They'll harden her.
You're right HIS LOSS!
I can totally see that
I can totally see that happening bc I didn't want BM to get all the money she's getting. Granted I wasn't the OW but still...I didn't want her to have all that money. I supported my husband.
I think some women who seem like they want to screw BM out of things she's entitled to are really caught up in what she's being told by the husband. She knows nothing of what the BM is going through or what she went through. Makes it easy to try to screw the BM when you only have the cheaters side of the story.
I KNOW thefrizz's side and I STILL think she is undeserving of the alimony she gets. It criminal...she didn't earn it. CS,absolutely! Alimony at that amount...hell no.
"Venting without the desire to look within and improve your situation is simply venting to hear yourself bitch."
..."I'm not mean, you're just a sissy."
BB - I am going to have to
BB - I am going to have to duck too.... but I still feel that I have to say. Having the DH cheat does NOT in my opinion, give the wife to act any old way she wants without thoughts or consequences. I understand the whole "He did it first".... but is that a true excuse? What about the man and woman who don't have children, but were married for 10 years and he cheats or she cheats? And then the spouse goes crazy and tries to ruin their credit, their life? Is that okay? No... everyone would agree that the spouse should be hurt, but not vindictive. Why is it okay to assume that because children are involved, they can become the pawns of vindictiveness? It's just not right. And again - I'm really sorry if this opinion hurts anyone... But I DO HAVE SOME EXPERIENCE HERE - within my own family.
*** A rainbow just threw up on me... and now I'm sh*tting glitter! ***
I agree with some comments
I agree with some comments on here. Regardless what happens with the OW she is not the one who put the ring on BMs finger and exchanged vows, he did it seems though that the anger over this is misplaced. The OW did not put a gun to hubbys head and make him cheat i would say 9 times out of 10 its the man who inititates is. Does it make it right no. I understand being hurt but at what point do you let it go? 3 years 5 years when? I agree that a shitty husband does not mean a shitty father. I also do not beleieve in the term homewrecker. The home was already wreacked if he strayed. Sorry. its the truth from my point of view.
Now that a few people have
Now that a few people have commented, let me say a little more about what I was thinking when I started this blog.
I agree with Totalybogus that kids "should" respect all adults no matter what. That's just teaching children good manners. However, the "should" and the reality are probably two different things.
I also agree that the BM doesn't have the right to harass, punish, be vindictive, etc. toward the OW. Because in my view, we as humans are too good at using any old excuse as a justification for our bad behavior.
I also agree that the husband has a hand in it. Obviously. The OW has done a bad thing by intruding on a marriage. But the husband, arguably, has done a much, much worse thing because he KNOWS the people whose lives he is going to destroy just to satisfy his desires. And again, I think the "the marriage was already in trouble" is just an excuse for bad behavior.
I think that if a marriage is in trouble, and a person finds himself becoming attracted to someone else, he owes it to everyone involved -- EVERYONE -- to stop right there, to talk to his wife and say "I'm having feelings for another person that I should be feeling for you. I don't want to do anything I won't be proud of later. So I'm telling you this now, so we can try to work on our marriage."
Again: this is what SHOULD happen.
I will clarify what I wrote in the original post: I feel like a SM who starts out as the OW should not expect to ever be treated like a SM by the kids or the ex-wife. Not that she shouldn't be treated with a degree of civility that anyone should expect. And not that the BM has the right to drag SM through the mud or poison the kids against her. But my gut reaction is, a SM who started out as the OW has no right to assume that she deserves to have any sort of parent or friend-like stepmom relationship with the skids.
I'm still gonna duck again, because I imagine this will cause a stir, as well. And for the record, I really did open this up because I want the discussion -- not because I want to "accuse and condemn" all OW. I want people to challenge me on this. I don't like it when I have such strong black-and white reactions.
BB
You are not second best, you are not second class. Do not ever let anyone make you feel that way. - 2BLoved
Here is why i feel like "the
Here is why i feel like "the relationship was already in trouble" Would you ever hurt someone you truly loved? Would you ever make someone you love cry? I would not cheat on my current BF because of those reason. I have however cheated on people in the past. Not proud of it but it has happend and the bottom line is you dont cheat on someone you love and respect. I agree 100% that if you are not happy in a relationship then show your partner the respect they deserve and get out before you look for someone else.
Eh, I don't know about that.
Eh, I don't know about that. With men, sometimes it has nothing to do with whether or not they love their significant other, it's about the strange. Sometimes they just feel the need to think with their dipstick.
But Belle - no one should be
But Belle - no one should be expected to endure disrespect ALWAYS. The BM has no concept of what the DH told the OW. She doesn't know why the OW went into the relationship and stayed there. For the most part, the BM doesn't really know what kind of woman the OW really is, as a person (except for you WSM... it does seem that you knew the woman.)
I know quite a few "Other Women"... many times they are caught up in IMMATURE forces. They too feel it's love, or whatever they think it is. Most women that I know, don't go into these relationships to break up marriages. And most other women that I know are also very very conflicted on their role in everything. How many times have we heard of other women wanting to break up with a married man and HIM pursuing her... telling her he's not happy without her.. etc.
And again... it wouldn't matter if the guy met her and then even a year later broke up with his wife - after trying and not pursuing - ... if he ended up with that woman EVER she is the OTHER woman.
The thing is... For the most part, the BM in this scenario has ALL THE POWER. So she can make or break her ex-husband's and her children's lives. She is the one that can be graceful under pressure or be a bitch on wheels. She is the one who holds the cards and wants to wield the power.
We are not the only ones who should be expected to "handle things with dignity and grace" as BBB says on here. It should be expected of ALL parties. So I'm sorry... but if a BM is using the excuse that THIS WOMAN - if it weren't for THIS WOMAN - then my marriage would be OK... well, no one knows if that is true... and it's a bunch of "What if"... It doesn't apply. (Sorry WSM.... for this opinion.)
For all we know... the other woman could have gone away and the husband could just cheat with someone else, or start doing drugs because he is unhappy (as I know another man has actually done)... or make the home life absolutely miserable. There is that option too. Staying together for the kids where there are real and true issues and NO ONE is happy. Not the wife, not the husband and not the kids. (What about all of those divorces once kids are grown??)
NO ONE deserves continual disrespect unless they act continually disrespectful toward others. If the new SM is trying... then she deserves some benefit of the doubt.
Yeah, that's what should
Yeah, that's what should happen--but many times the other spouse doesn't want to get help and expects to continue contributing nothing. That's what happened to both DH and I--and of course, BM blamed me initially but he made it clear to her and his kids that I had NOTHING to do with the demise of their marriage. It was over except for paperwork when we met -- BY HER HAND! She, like my ex, is selfish and infantile, not a partner. We both had no intention of getting divorced but it takes two to make a marriage and we were both tired from doing it all.
That's our story.
Let me in!!!!! I wanna
Let me in!!!!! I wanna play! LOL!!!
In my situation I blamed Satan 90% and EH 10%. The reason? She would not go away. She moved into our small town out of nowhere and it happened to be during a rough patch between EH and I. She was skinny and cute and sooooo fun. She loved ALL the same things he did and she literally threw herself at men, particularly the one I was married to. Excuse me while I puke now. EH and I were talking about getting counseling to stay together and then I find out about HER. She truly talked him into everything. We had just started a business and it had taken off in leaps and bounds and was doing great. SHE was so much more skilled in business than me and she convinced him that she needed to run it for him. He was simply smitten with how she looked. :barf:
I admit... I went complete and total psycho BM on her ass. She immediately planned this gigantic wedding and then she took over the business and bankrupted EH in 8 months. Then guess what.... she started cheating on EH! Shocker!! Their marriage was a joke from day one.
You know there was one thing she could have tried to do? She could have tried, just once, to apologize to me. She never did. Ever. So I made her life hell. I made sure she knew that as long as she existed in MY life, hers would be miserable. Maybe, just maybe, had she tried to apologize to me, for breaking up my marriage, I could have tried to swallow it for perfectson's sake. Because, you guys ALL know that he is perfect and I'll do anything for my boy.
Had she not been pure-dee-evil, I *might* have tried.
Stick is also right, our marriage wasn't in good shape, but we were a far cry from divorce and then OW came sniffing around.
So really, for someone to have so little respect for MY family and MY marriage and MY life.... why should I have given her 1 drop of anything? Nope, she deserved everything I gave her. I truly believe she has nightmares about me still!
I know of 1 OW that is on this website. I have no problems with her and in fact I'm proud to call her my friend. The reason?? She acknowledged her part in the demise of the relationship and she wanted to rise above and beyond that for the benefit of the children involved. She paid her dues. Most OW don't care.
But that's my opinion.
Yeah, I can think of one, as
Yeah, I can think of one, as well -- and I like her, too. In fact, that's part of the reason I started this blog: because when I think about the situation abstractly, I side with the BM, but when I think of individuals I know and like who have been the OW, I'm troubled by my extreme reaction. And I haven't ever been cheated on and left, nor have I been the OW, so I don't have the personal experience to make me feel so strongly.
I'm sort of hoping that SMs on here that were the OW will join the conversation, though I can understand that they might not want to, since this is such a potentially emotionally charged subject.
BB
You are not second best, you are not second class. Do not ever let anyone make you feel that way. - 2BLoved
See, this is where I have a
See, this is where I have a problem. You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make him drink it. The OW in your case may be a tart, but your XH is the one that betrayed you and your marriage. You said it yourself, he was "smitten" with the way she looked. Men are visual creatures. Besides, I believe if a guy is that easily swayed, if it wasn't THAT OW, it would be someone else. The flaw is in the man.
No, it was her. I promise
No, it was her. I promise you I know how crazy that sounds. But this woman is like no other.... she is evil from a level of hell I didn't know existed.
I think that woman tried to
I think that woman tried to run off with my then husband too! She was by FAR the most evil person I've ever come across. She was conceived and born from Satan's a$$!
Well, dh and I didn't have
Well, dh and I didn't have an affair, but Wingnut is convinced we did. She can hate me all she wants and Sd can too, but the bottom line is, SHE brought this on herself. We were friends and I did open his eyes to the fact that his wife was treating him badly. I probably gave him the strength he needed to leave his toxic situation. BUT the forensic psychologist involved assured me the marriage was over before dh ever met me AND the forensic psychologist, DH's psychiatrist and DH's family have all told me that I likely saved DH's life by befriending him. Prior to our friendship he had a mental breakdown and spent 7 days in a mental hospital. She didn't visit him. Not even once. She blamed him for his illness and insisted he make it up to her everyday thereafter. She had him convinced he was a terrible person and his only saving grace was to make her happy and do what she wanted. Having suffered with depression (and in fact lost a brother to suicide) I recognized his spiral and befriended him.
I did not encourage him to leave her. I simply told him that he was not responsible for another person's happiness. He was responsible, as a husband, to do his best to work with his wife for both of their happiness. I don't feel the least bit guilty. He tried to do counseling with her even after he and I had met. She refused. She flat out said "I don't have any problems. Our marriage doesn't have any problems. You have problems and you embarrass me" then she tried to stab him. Yes, I can be defined as the OW (though we never actually had an affair) and I was there for him the weekend after he left her (and I've been by his side ever since), but I did not wreck her home. She did.
I'm ducking!
"God is great, beer is good, and people are crazy" and you can't change crazy!!
Good for you. *Ducking while
Good for you.
*Ducking while saying this*
Married people deserve to be happy. A husband deserves to be happy just as much as a wife does. I have always thought that you should take care of business at home because what you arent willing to do another woman is. Not a popular point of view by any means but its the gods honest truth. I think a lot of BMs dont take responsability for the breakdown of thier own marriges and I think thats very sad. Its so easy to blame the OW. If it wasnt for her then he and i would still be together and be happy. No if it wasnt for her it would be someone else i promise. Happy men dont stray. Love it or hate it its the truth.
She also sat on her lazy ass
She also sat on her lazy ass all day while he worked 60 hours a week. He had to bring home dinner every night, clean the house on weekends, take care of the baby every evening (dinner, bath, bedtime, etc). She didn't work and she wasn't a homemaker. She was a sponge both emotionally and financially and she is still trying to play that role. Dh gave her the world and she spit in his face in response and she blames ME for their marriage falling apart. Actually, in her mind he is bi-polar (he isn't) and he will one day get medication, realize the error in his ways and come back to her.
"God is great, beer is good, and people are crazy" and you can't change crazy!!
No boyfriend. She had one
No boyfriend. She had one for a while. He was actually very nice. Apparently he got tired of bringing her lazy ass dinner every night and then babysitting her kid while she slept on the couch.
"God is great, beer is good, and people are crazy" and you can't change crazy!!
Man, SVS--we have the same
Man, SVS--we have the same BM!!! Ours did work "late" all the time, hmmm...but poor DH did everything else! He was the one who got up in the night--all the time. She didn't even respond to her baby's cries. I've never met someone so shallow and undeveloped. The woman doesn't even have a single hobby!
Wingnut's hobby is going to
Wingnut's hobby is going to the mall and spending our hard earned money.
"God is great, beer is good, and people are crazy" and you can't change crazy!!
"She flat out said "I don't
"She flat out said "I don't have any problems. Our marriage doesn't have any problems. You have problems and you embarrass me" then she tried to stab him. "
OMG! Is it wrong that that made me laugh out loud??!!??
You are not second best, you are not second class. Do not ever let anyone make you feel that way. - 2BLoved
No, I laugh out loud at her
No, I laugh out loud at her nonsense everyday. She is truly living in an alternate universe.
"God is great, beer is good, and people are crazy" and you can't change crazy!!
See my earlier comment, SVS.
See my earlier comment, SVS. Similar situation. DH considered suicide before he met me.
Then I am glad he found
Then I am glad he found you!
"God is great, beer is good, and people are crazy" and you can't change crazy!!
The OW shouldn't expect
The OW shouldn't expect anything from BM as far as respect or kindness or friendliness is concerned. BUT and this is JUST ME...my ex ended up marrying the OW. She was really good to my son. it hurt, but I made sure my son knew he was to respect his father's wife at all times. didn't matter that daddy was messing with her while he was with me...she may not deserve MY immediate respect but she still deserves the respect of a child just like any adult does.
i don't think being the OW should condemn someone to the ranks of "lowest of the low" undeserving of even a smile or handshake...i think after the initial hurt and shock is put behind everyone, people should at least try to come to some sort of peace even if it's just an outer surface peace that may not be absorbed into the heart until much later down the road, it's better than nothing.
I'm just giving comment on what has worked for me in my own life, i didn't treat the OW like dirt. I saw her as a naive,stupid little girl who messed with someone she shouldn't have messed with...she made a mistake. a HUGE mistake. She came in timid and afraid to be in contact with me and at first that made me put my BM superhero cape on thinking "that's right bitch...you SHOULD fear me...I'M the one in control here" But it faded fast and didn't fill that black hole of nothingness for me. It made me feel mean,bitter,and hopeless. i plotted a million ways to destroy her,get rid of her...until i just had no further down to go...I had to turn myself around and backtrack through that nastiness and hate I built.
So i just began treating her like I'd treat a casual coworker. Nice,not too nice. Friendly,not too friendly.
helped me get over it faster and made me a better person in the long run. Showed my son a thing or two about what it means to be a lady and what it means to be a good,mature,solid person as well. it is my hope that if,heaven forbid, he ever has a wife who cheats he can remember how his mother reacted to being cheated on and he'll learn to make peace with what has happened to him and he'll use the experience to grow as a person. I learned what MY part was in tearing my previous relationship up, I didn't focus on what the ex did. I focused on what *I* did and I took all the things I did wrong and learned WHY I did it without trying to justify my actions...that way I could fix it before diving into my next relationship.
Sorry...went on a tangent...but hope this adds something valuable to your discussion BB:)
"Venting without the desire to look within and improve your situation is simply venting to hear yourself bitch."
If i could hug you right now
If i could hug you right now i would. Its all about respect. Even though someone didnt respect you does not mean you can turn into hell bitch. I beleive our parents tought us this when we were playing on the play ground. I wish more women would look at themselves also when they are mourning the loss of their marriage. I am so proud of you that you were able to take the time to reflect on the role you played. It shows what a mature, strong and respectable WOMAN you are.
YAY! Yes, that is EXACTLY
YAY! Yes, that is EXACTLY what I wanted to hear. Thanks for this thoughtful, thought-provoking response. You are sure not a dumb Barbie -- you're a mensch!!!
BB
You are not second best, you are not second class. Do not ever let anyone make you feel that way. - 2BLoved
Oh and before I lose my
Oh and before I lose my bitch status let me add that if she would have been bad to my child or did anything uppity and ghetto...there would be a whole different tone to my response on this blog. I'd be commenting from probation for knocking her teeth out ...*innocent eye blinks* lol. "Venting without the desire to look within and improve your situation is simply venting to hear yourself bitch."
AMEN ... I hate my BF BM but
AMEN ... I hate my BF BM but would never be mean to her children because i dont like her. its not the childrens fault they ended up with her as a parent. LOL. My EH girlfriend is great with my daughter they do all kinds of girly things together and Im glad that she has that girl figure there when she is with her dad. Hell someone has to do her hair LOL
The whole ducking thing =
The whole ducking thing = sometimes someone writes a blog on here that hits a nerve and sets off a HUGE flame war sh*tstorm. You've only been here for a few weeks, so you probably haven't seen one yet. But we're about due for one.
BB
You are not second best, you are not second class. Do not ever let anyone make you feel that way. - 2BLoved
Oh Belles. Expectations. I
Oh Belles.
Expectations.
I will often say that I don't expect my husband's exwife to respect my marriage because in reality... I never truly respected theirs. That's my choice and how I make peace with myself in my own situation.
We are not defined by our mistakes.
A woman is not defined by the route she takes to find happiness. She is defined by how she accepts her flaws and takes responsibility in her life that she is as human as anyone else... and is deserving of whatever life hands out... good and bad. A woman who will take on a married man and feels regret, shame, and remorse is very different than one who projects herself as better full of excuses as to justify the behavior only to mask the deeds that lead her to a place where she is cast as unworthy.
She's still worthy, belles. We all make horrible mistakes sometimes.
June and Johnny Cash are one America's most treasured love stories. What they had was real and they embraced it all in their own right despite the fact that Johnny was married with three little girls.
The felt that they deserved happiness.. and they did.
Forgiveness is what sets us free. Infidelity is not an unforgivable act... and perceptions of ANY given situation can be very different when you sit down and understand each player involved.
It's not so black and white.. and I believe in the goodness of people. I expect only what I extend to others, and I would hope that those I have trespassed against would forgive me enough to see past my mistakes to the beautiful person I truly strive to be...
"For every ailment under the sun....There is a remedy, or there is none;
If there be one, try to find it; If there be none, never mind it." ~ W.W. Bartley
Very true CG. Dh and I are
Very true CG. Dh and I are soul mates. We got here in an unconventional way, but we are complimented constantly on how "fairy tale" we are in our love for one another. I will never regret that no matter how many people think it was wrong for me to interfere in dh's first marriage. She made her bed and I benefited from it. I tell dh all the time that I am grateful for how nasty she is because he is so forgiving, if she had been even the tiniest bit nicer, he may have stayed and I wouldn't have a wonderful husband.
"God is great, beer is good, and people are crazy" and you can't change crazy!!
SoVery - I am not DH's other
SoVery - I am not DH's other woman... I came along 5 years after he left the home... BUT I feel the same way. IF BM over here had just been a little nicer... DH would have stayed - for his daughter, his house and his dog. And I would have missed out. Her selfishness is my LUCK!!
*** A rainbow just threw up on me... and now I'm sh*tting glitter! ***
Good for you! DH definitely
Good for you! DH definitely would have stayed, if only for SD, but she threatened his life and threatened to call the police and claim (falsely) that he abused her. I know this to be true because she often threatened him with this even after he left and I overheard many phone calls. If she had just been a lazy b*tch, he would have stayed and been miserable (like many people I know who are in loveless marriages), but she pushed too far and I just happened to be there to pick up the pieces.
"God is great, beer is good, and people are crazy" and you can't change crazy!!
Very nice response, CG. You
Very nice response, CG. You are one of the people I was hoping would respond, because I value your thoughtfulness. I agree, nothing is ever as black and white as it seems (well, almost nothing). Thanks for showing some of the grey. As I said on here in response to someone else, it's the people I know who have been the OW, like Sita -- and you, apparently -- who have made me want to rethink this reactionary stance, and examine why it is that I have such a strong, black and white reaction of sympathy to the "victim" of the OW.
I've never been cheated on, nor have I ever been the OW. So I don't know what it is that has given rise to this reaction of mine. But posting this blog has had its desired effect: it's helped me see the grey I knew I needed to start seeing.
BB
You are not second best, you are not second class. Do not ever let anyone make you feel that way. - 2BLoved
It's okay to have black and
It's okay to have black and white thinking sometimes.
I will always struggle with certain subjects and lean towards the black and white... abortion, sexual abuse, rape, politics, etc.
The only thing is that life will sometimes force your views to be challenged. Like what if one of my children did an act that I have deemed horrific. I love my children and there is no conditions to it and I chose to find forgiveness in whatever it is they do. I may not support them in all they do, but my love remains and my contempt would not.
Every situation is different. It's inevitable because all people are different. You inevitably side with Sita because you love her. You are angry for her. Her story is one of a great injustice. These are understandable feelings. It's not true for every single situation though. You also only know her version of her own truth.. she's your friend, you don't need or want to hear another's version. I feel the same way.
Here's the thing. We often close our minds when we don't understand something. Once you begin to find truth and appreciate how people get to certain points it allows you to embrace the grey.
For example and the most eye opening experience for me was in my volunteer work for abused and neglected children. I took several classes from a pyschologist who counseled not only abuse victims in domestic violence but the abusers as well. There is so much to the dynamic of these types of situations... and it's a cycle that is passed down in generations. It's not so black and white, right and wrong, good and bad.
Our experiences and behavior are often learned. It's all we know... the moral compasses are often not set by us until later in life.
Taking sides isn't even necessary, even when it's instictual to do so. Growing as a person involves opening our minds and realizing that being upset at a situation has so much more to do with our own fears and frustrations based on our own experiences. Humanizing the beast that we find in others and knowing that it doesn't define the person. There is so much complexity in each of us and so many reasons that we do what we do in life. We are deserve to be loved, each and every one of us...
"For every ailment under the sun....There is a remedy, or there is none;
If there be one, try to find it; If there be none, never mind it." ~ W.W. Bartley
I'd also like to add that on
I'd also like to add that on my little peace journey after being cheated on...i did my share of destroying personal property. Did you know that golf clubs WILL break if pounded onto a concrete slab repeatedly? And it is NOT smart to throw a massive CD collection from the window of a moving car. Not smart. AND it is EXPENSIVE for a man to replace all his shoes,underwear,and socks after they've been torched by some crazed woman...just sayin....
"Venting without the desire to look within and improve your situation is simply venting to hear yourself bitch."
LMAO!!!! You are on a roll
LMAO!!!! You are on a roll today, BBB. That was comedy gold!
BB
You are not second best, you are not second class. Do not ever let anyone make you feel that way. - 2BLoved
*curtsy* why thank you
*curtsy* why thank you missBB
They say the funniest stuff is true life details.
"Venting without the desire to look within and improve your situation is simply venting to hear yourself bitch."
LOL see and thats 100% ok to
LOL see and thats 100% ok to act that way in the begining. Its years later that i would worry about.
I have a bonfire that lasted
I have a bonfire that lasted THREE DAYS!!! No lie!
I really shouldn't have done that because I torched some pretty significant memorabilia BUT he's admitted he deserved it.
Wow this is an active
Wow this is an active discussion you've started! Nice! LOL. Where to start, well, I agree I like having some BM perspectives on here for sure, but unfortuantely it's usually a perspective of a sane and rationally thinking individual and not the undiagnosed personality disorder of the BM in my situation. But I do like to have the diversity in perspectives, additionally from the Fathers and SF that come on here.
I do have to respectfully disagree with your other thought, that SM's who enter into an affair then are held to different rights and expectations. I think that sometimes, people don't meet their soul mate, or the love of their life when both are single individuals. Before you throw shoes at me... I am just saying, I don't condone affairs or the breaking up of families, BUT, if my DH came to me tomorrow and told me he met what he beleives is the love of his life and he doesn't love me anymore... yes OUCH, but I would rather let him go and find my own happiness... Just my respectful opinion, not taking anything from your perspective.
You know what I love?
You know what I love? Disagreeing with someone I adore and finding it really no big deal! LOL!!!!!!
I will always believe Satan hunted down my EH, then she hunted down the next husbands whose marriages she destroyed!
I totally agree.... it's not
I totally agree.... it's not as common, because I know PLENTY of men who did all the hunting, but my particular case, it was her.
You're cute too...
(((((HUGS)))))
I'm surprised. I'm going to
I'm surprised. I'm going to have to jump in. I wanted to read and pass by, but I can't. Mainly because you are my friend and many others that are on this blog are my friends as well. Most of you here know my story.
I've been left for the OW. I've also been the OW and that is how mine and my husbands relationship began. It is not how it continued though. I am no longer the OW. I am his wife, and he my husband. We have a wonderful family. We walked through hell to be together and I have complete faith in my husband and in this family. We will never part, and for the first time in my life and in any relationship I can say that out loud and mean it without fear of looking like a idiot later. He will never betray me. And I will never betray him.
Can I understand BM's psychoness when we were first together? Yes. A resounding yes. It took me some time to get it, because I've never been the type of woman to screw with a kids head. She did. It was hard on all of us to sit by and watch the kids be mentally tortured and forced to choose between their father and mother for a few years. It was rough. I do know she was hurt, her and I have talked it over until we were both blue in the face. I'm happy to say that now her and I are friends. It took us BOTH to forgive each other, for DH and her to BOTH forgive each other. It wasn't just black and white. I didn't walk into a perfect marriage and bust it all to hell. I used to be a pretty judgmental person regarding this type of situation, until I was in one.
I didn't want to be. I tried to walk away from him, and he tried so hard to walk away from me. We couldn't.
Their marriage was over long before I gave into my love for him. If I had it all to do over would I do it different, yes, of course. At the time all I knew was that I loved him. What else can I say?
Do I think that gives her the right to wreck our lives for the rest of our lives? NO. Not at all. I'm sorry, I just will never agree to that.
When my x cheated on me and moved the girl into my house the same day I left (well actually while I was leaving) yes I was furious!! I did hate her, I didn't want her around my child. But I couldn't keep him from his dad, or hurt my own son just because his father chose to not be with me anymore. My own anger had to be put aside. I can't lie and say that her and I ever found our peace. We didn't. Not only because of what she did initally, but because of what she continued to do to my child.
I've talked about it to death here. There's not much more I can say on the subject.
You mentioned Sita and how she didn't deserve this. Of course she didn't. Who does?
If another woman came into my marriage and set out to destroy it would I be happy? No, of course not! But as DPWB said, I wouldn't give her a second thought. My DH would be the one to deal with me! She didn't stand in front of God and our friends and promise to always love and take care of me. He did that. And I expect HIM to uphold those vows.
Juice and I are living a beautiful, happy, loving life together. I'm sorry that BM was hurt.....and I've told her that. I wouldn't give my husband up for anything though. And I can't feel bad about that.
"If you don’t adapt and look within yourself, you’ll just keep wading in that stagnant poisonous pool of stepparent hell." author: BitchBitchBarbie
There's the key words my
There's the key words my friend.... "I'm sorry that BM was hurt... and I've told her that."
THAT makes all the difference in the world to me. All I received was a neener-neener-neener, I took your life so by God I took it back. But I'm a bitch like that!
Jen, you are one awesome
Jen, you are one awesome woman. I'm so proud of both you and BM for how you've made your peace.
I used to be judgmental about these sorts of situations also. Whenever I'd hear of a celebrity who had cheated on their spouse, I'd think, "how can this person do that to their spouse?"
If another woman were to come into my marriage and try to destroy it, I'd be hurt and angry too. I'd be even more hurt and angry at DH. If I could show even half of the grace and class you have shown, then I'd be happy.
((((((((((JEN!!!)))))))) Yay,
((((((((((JEN!!!))))))))
Yay, I'm SO glad you responded! Honestly, you are one of the reasons I wrote the blog. If you've read the entire thing, you know by now that my main reason for writing it is that I couldn't reconcile my feelings about this in the abstract, with the realities of people I know, like YOU, whom I like, and who have freely admitted that they started out as the Other Woman.
I really, really hope I didn't offend you (too much) with this post. Honestly, I worried specifically that you would read it and be hurt. But I didn't want to say right off the bat "I know that the way I'm feeling isn't charitable or even making much sense -- talk me out of it!" even though that was what I wanted.
As you say, "I used to be a pretty judgmental person regarding this type of situation, until I was in one." I remember that you were one of the people that got completely freaking SKEWERED in a blog a few months ago about SMs who were the Other Woman. That whole blog was an awful, unproductive sh*tstorm, and I didn't participate in it because I thought it was so awful. But when the whole OW thing started coming up because of Sita, it started me to thinking about the OW again, and I realized that I had some pretty unattractive feelings about the whole thing...
SO anyway, please please don't be hurt, Jen. I think you're awesome. And I really did want to "expose myself" as it were, in all my judgmental-ness, so that I could be more clear on what I REALLY felt and why I felt it.
Hugs, Jen!
BB
You are not second best, you are not second class. Do not ever let anyone make you feel that way. - 2BLoved
"I'm surprised by your blog
"I'm surprised by your blog BB, I wouldn't have expect this from you. If I could be honest and blunt, it seems very narrow-minded,"
Exactly why I posted this blog, DPW. Exactly why.
Because I found myself thinking the exact same thing: "Wow, me, your attitude about this seems very narrow-minded and judgmental." And as I wrote in a PM to someone else who wrote me privately about this blog, I find that the people in my world who cause the most problems to me and others tend to be the ones who are very narrow-minded and believe they are right about everything and the world is black and white.
So I wrote this blog, because I wanted to have some saner heads give me the shades of grey that I was not seeing, or allowing myself to see. Like BBB and Colorado Girl's posts on here, as well as what you wrote above, are doing that for me. I honestly posted this because I wanted the dialog. Not because I felt my position was right, but because I suspected strongly that my view was too narrow for someone like me, who likes to think of myself as more clearheaded than that.
See, I tend to think of myself as someone who would NEVER get into a relationship with a married man and thus be the Other Woman. I tend to think I'm better than that -- that anyone who would do that is a terrible person. But I suspect that the reality is, I happen to have gotten to the point in my life where I am officially done looking for The One, and because I managed never to fall for someone who was already in a relationship, I mistakenly believe myself incapable of it.
But then I look at someone like Sita, who is very open about the fact that she was an OW for 3 years!!! SITA, of all people! I mean, my god, she's such an amazing, intelligent, moral, grounded person. She's a WAY better person than I am! So, if SHE can be the OW... well, then I have to reevaluate my prejudices.
See where I'm going with this? It's all about trying to honestly examine just how it is that I've become so damn certain I'm better than the people I'm abstractly condemning. Because I've made some whopper mistakes, myself -- just not THAT one. So who the F am I to judge so quickly, right?
Anyway, I'm really glad this sparked a good discussion. Because I have read ST threads in the past that were really terrible, mean and ugly fights between women who have been cheated on and women who have been the Other Woman. Those discussions were demoralizing and completely unproductive for all. I hope this one has been better.
Oh, and for the record, DPW. I didn't say that OWs didn't deserve to be treated right by the kids or the BM. I said that they couldn't expect to be treated as a stepmom. For instance, she couldn't expect for the BM to ever be willing to let the SM take the kids alone without the DH, or that the kids would consider her anything but their dad's wife -- not that she had any relationship to them personally.
And again, I'm trying to revise my opinion about that. I was stating that I had that gut reaction. And wanted people to give me reasons to revise it.
Thanks for your thoughts, though. I appreciate it -- after all, it's what I asked for!
BB
You are not second best, you are not second class. Do not ever let anyone make you feel that way. - 2BLoved
Can we have like a huge
Can we have like a huge group LoveIn now?? Sing camp songs and hold hands? This blog makes me all warm and gooey inside bc we're having such a peaceful,mature discussion about such sensitive dangerous subjects! Love ALL of you for seeking answers outside of the box
"Venting without the desire to look within and improve your situation is simply venting to hear yourself bitch."
And I love you all for not
And I love you all for not poking my eyes out, poking me with a red hot poker, yelling at me, calling me names, making fun of my dog that was dog napped! This is the first blog I've seen on the subject where the original blogger wanted nothing other than some understanding.
Understanding and agreeing with are two totally different things though. And Bell I don't expect you to agree with or to think I had any justification in my role in DH's life. I don't expect anyone to, to be totally honest. It's a tough subject........even for me! I can sit here right now and tell you if it happened between Juice and I that I would be floored and devestated. I would hate the other woman.........damn straight! I would hate to lose my husband. Does that mean I'd fill my daughters head full of crap about him, no. Does it mean I'd want to and walk a very fine line there, YES!
I just know from my own life experiences that it has all opened my eyes wide. No matter what the sin, I try very hard to not judge it. Because for all I know it could be me tomorrow.
My hardest thing to wrap my head around is abortion. Not to start a debate, that's not what I want. But when I hear about it or see it on tv it really breaks my heart and I do believe it should be illegal. But then the thought always comes up............would I think that way if I were the one that was raped and now pregnant by the rapist? So no matter what my convictions, I simpily cannot judge because I know if I walked in that situation my thoughts and beliefs on the whole thing could change in a snap.
(((((((hugs Bell))))))) You know I love you girl, even if you do think I'm a homewrecker!
LOL
"If you don’t adapt and look within yourself, you’ll just keep wading in that stagnant poisonous pool of stepparent hell." author: BitchBitchBarbie
Jen ya lil homewrecking
Jen ya lil homewrecking hussy! lol:) You're the best girl I love ya
I had tons of respect for you before this particular blog but reading your responses to everything...the respect just went up like a million points. I wanna be like my girl jen when I grow up 
"Venting without the desire to look within and improve your situation is simply venting to hear yourself bitch."
..."I'm not mean, you're just a sissy."
Isn't Jen just the BEST
Isn't Jen just the BEST EVER????? I LOVE HER TO PIECES!!!!
This has been a great subject and I'm way impressed with how everyone has kept their cool with it. There's lot of strong opinions all the way around. In my mind, it all remains situational. Hopefully NONE of us ever go through this crap (again for me lol) cause what you *think* you would be able to do in a situation sometimes is a far far cry from what you *actually are* able to do.
Good discussion all the way around!
"My hardest thing to wrap my
"My hardest thing to wrap my head around is abortion. Not to start a debate, that's not what I want. But when I hear about it or see it on tv it really breaks my heart and I do believe it should be illegal. But then the thought always comes up............would I think that way if I were the one that was raped and now pregnant by the rapist? So no matter what my convictions, I simpily cannot judge because I know if I walked in that situation my thoughts and beliefs on the whole thing could change in a snap"
That's an awesome thing to realize. The world (or at least our country) is so filled with black-and-white thinking these days -- it really makes it almost impossible to have a civilized conversation about things like this. What you've described here has been kind of how I've felt about the OW thing: I'm completely hard-line against it. But, I've never been "tested" in real life.
I think it takes a very strong and self-aware person to say this: "So no matter what my convictions, I simpily cannot judge because I know if I walked in that situation my thoughts and beliefs on the whole thing could change in a snap". I think if more people could say that about things they feel strongly about, we might be able to see people with different views as not being evil, but being human.
Nicely put, Jen -- ya homewrecker!
BB
You are not second best, you are not second class. Do not ever let anyone make you feel that way. - 2BLoved
Perhaps Jen's post (re:
Perhaps Jen's post (re: abortion) is why so many of us on here have problems with the BM's (and even dh's and skids) in our lives. Many (if not most) of us SMs (and BMs) on this sight recognize we aren't perfect and take responsibility for our own flaws and truly try (and we've had some post where it was very difficult) to not judge anyone else's position. It is called having respect for others as they are and in many of our cases the BMs we deal with have no respect for our boundaries or our differences. When you are a person with boundaries and who truly TRIES (not always successfully) to respect the boundaries of others, it is very difficult to deal with people who don't do the same.
"God is great, beer is good, and people are crazy" and you can't change crazy!!
LOL Bell! Silly thing! "If
LOL Bell! Silly thing!
"If you don’t adapt and look within yourself, you’ll just keep wading in that stagnant poisonous pool of stepparent hell." author: BitchBitchBarbie
This has been the most
This has been the most mature, thought-provoking thread I've seen in a very long time. I have nothing to add at this time, but I just wanted to say I'm proud of everyone for being able to talk about this touchy subject with open minds and to really want to learn and grow. Thank You, BB.
______________________________________
Love me or hate me, I'm still gonna shine!!!
YAY EVERYONE! GROUP HUG!!!
YAY EVERYONE! GROUP HUG!!!
BB
You are not second best, you are not second class. Do not ever let anyone make you feel that way. - 2BLoved
Thanks for the link. I just
Thanks for the link. I just started reading the article, so I'm not sure I will "agree" with it or not, but one thing struck me right away. Here's a quote:
"Hardly the cunning femmes fatales portrayed in pop culture, the mistresses often appear dazed, speaking of themselves as victims who yearn to break free from the cycle of chasing after unavailable men."
Interesting how the concept of the "Other Woman" is really created to be a terrible homewrecker femme fatale, in much the same way -- and in the same media -- as the "Stepmother" is created to be an evil bitch.
BB
You are not second best, you are not second class. Do not ever let anyone make you feel that way. - 2BLoved
I guess it really depends on
I guess it really depends on what each of the people wanted out of the relationship to begin with. If it was someone that thought they could just jump right in there and replace the wife/husband, then yes, I bet it did suck. But, if it was two people fulfilling a need they weren't getting at home and they were satisfied with that, then no, I don't think it would suck, not for them anyway.
There are many different breds of OWs and OMs. To group them all together in one category is like grouping together all stepmothers as being wicked and evil.
Most affairs do not start
Most affairs do not start off as love. Some affairs really are just about the sex.. at first anyway. Some are about being able to talk to someone about feelings that they don't feel able to discuss with their spouse. It really isn't about anyone else. Some are insecure in themselves and get what they need from the attention that the single/married guy gives them.
I think probably younger women dating married men probably want the public spectacle but other women generally are not looking for that. Once that happens, that's when the APs either decide to end their affair or they leave their spouses for each other so they can hold hands in public.
Wow, that's a double
Wow, that's a double betrayal. However, I still maintain that the children should never know. Of course no OW deserves the wife's respect, but again, the children are not parties to the marriage and should not be a party to any vengefulness
Well of course if that is
Well of course if that is the case and the kids see this, both parents should discuss this with the kids in the least intrusive way possible for the KIDS. I don't really care how the adults treat each other, but my point is the kids should be involved as little as possible.
And my post was in error... instead of any "Other" women.. I meant "older" women.
For myself, I love my kids more than I hate my x. I will always put them before any feelings I have for him or his psychotic wife. They don't need to be pulled in two directions. I wanted my girls to be able to grow and become socially adapted in spite of whatever our marital problems were.
I think putting our children's needs before our own is the key to helping them develope as normally as possible under the circumstances. They don't need to hate dad because mom does no matter the reason.
PnQ - At the risk of having
PnQ - At the risk of having you, and others look at me different... The thing is.... I was an other woman to a married man for 5 years... through a pregnancy with his wife. I did not want to write that before because I personally feel a stigma about myself about it. I am ashamed of myself and my actions.
I was stupid and young and ignorant and now, I personally believe... I was a bad person as well. Selfish and demanding and ugly inside.
I know my reasons for staying in it - most of all I thought he really loved me. And I can tell you that I really really loved him. After we broke up, I didn't date or even have sex with anyone for 2 years, I was so emotionally devastated by how it ended.
He wasn't a neighbor. And he wasn't very discreet either, which is part of the reason why I thought he cared about me.
The reality is... we all have the potential to do the worst thing we can imagine ourselves doing. Some of us succumb... and some of us don't.
I try to be a good person. I try to be understanding of all sides. I try to be moral and ethical and a productive member of society. And a long time ago.... I was the other woman too.
I don't view you differently
I don't view you differently Stick. I think you're brave for sharing this with us...
"Venting without the desire to look within and improve your situation is simply venting to hear yourself bitch."
..."I'm not mean, you're just a sissy."
So do I. BB You are not
So do I.
BB
You are not second best, you are not second class. Do not ever let anyone make you feel that way. - 2BLoved
(revised ) I'm not brave BBB
(revised ) I'm not brave BBB and Belle - But thank you!! ... if I was brave, I think I would be okay with it and just say it's part of my past, and would have been able to jump in at the very beginning - or on previous posts like this. But, as it is, I am ashamed of it. I did learn from it. But I still to this day think I truly loved that man with all I had.
I think bravery is more like you, and SMJ and WSM and Belle and others who say... OK.. this is a flaw but Whatever! Get over it! Deal because it's who I am. Or help me change... which is even more brave and harder to do.
That's still a journey for me! I offered it up because PnQ and I have corresponded on other things and I was not sure if anyone else could figure this out about me or not. And if no, then does that change who you see me as? (Thanks for the "no" answer by the way!!)
*** A rainbow just threw up on me... and now I'm sh*tting glitter! ***
Bravery is bravery. No
Bravery is bravery. No matter when you jump in and share.
Even admitting that you loved him so much is such a step in the right direction. Doesn't seem like it but it is:) If you weren't brave you'd hide and deflect..you wouldn't come right out and say, "ya know...I really loved him. SO much and I was crushed when it ended."
Sorry babe,still brave to me
My high opinion will not be budged 
"Venting without the desire to look within and improve your situation is simply venting to hear yourself bitch."
..."I'm not mean, you're just a sissy."
Well, and it's also part of
*** A rainbow just threw up on me... and now I'm sh*tting glitter! ***
Awwww Stick! You know what?
Awwww Stick! You know what? This admission just made me think even higher of you.
You are one of THE most level headed and honest to goodness nice people I know!!!!
We ALL do things we're ashamed of... I sure have.... but we learn from our mistakes and move on! Life is one big fat lesson!
DPW!! Never say never eh?
DPW!! Never say never eh?
I think that's one of the biggest lessons I have learned is to never say never!
Now... how many of us watch movies like Anne Frank's Diary or Saving Private Ryan and think of which character we would be? But possibly know in our heart there's the potential to be the not-so-nice person? The person who hoarded food? Or the person who killed someone else to save themselves?
Of course, that's on a much much grander scale! But that's sometimes where I torture myself. I know who I WANT to be. I don't know if I AM that person.
*** A rainbow just threw up on me... and now I'm sh*tting glitter! ***
Ohhh DPW!! How funny!
Ohhh DPW!! How funny! Ok... just before we all say Yay with Open Arms... Can we please please just tease you a little bit to say "GIRL!! What the hell are you thinkin???" Six kids under 12 !!! EEEk!!! I can't stop smiling right now that is so funny!
*** A rainbow just threw up on me... and now I'm sh*tting glitter! ***
Oooooohhh, man that makes my
Oooooohhh, man that makes my brain hurt!
BB
You are not second best, you are not second class. Do not ever let anyone make you feel that way. - 2BLoved
I think our pasts, the path
I think our pasts, the path that lead us to the now.. are just part of who we are.
I also don't like that you see yourself as a bad person... ever.
You're just wrong.
"For every ailment under the sun....There is a remedy, or there is none;
If there be one, try to find it; If there be none, never mind it." ~ W.W. Bartley
Thank you CG and DPW... but
Thank you CG and DPW... but in this I will disagree. I conducted myself in a less than honorable way. A bad person through and through like Charlie Manson or Hitler or Pol Pot? No. But a person that was acting strictly on selfish and needy motivations. A person who only cared about herself and her wants. Yes. That doesn't make me a good person. Maybe not bad... but definitely not good either. And Yes, it is a big part of who I am, even though I don't talk about it much.
I don't think it's self-flagellating to admit that I could have been a bad person. I think it's just a point of growth for me.
Let me rephrase... (Using my
Let me rephrase...
(Using my best validating skills and the SET technique
)
Stick, I can see why you feel and think you were a bad person, I've felt that way before myself. I also know you and by my own definitions of what a bad person is, you don't fit the description based on the traits and behavior you described.
You are human. Not an excuse but merely a statement. The perception of your actions and because you feel bad... doesn't equate you BEING bad.
I commend you on your remorse.. but I won't be talked into ever believing in labeling you as anything but the light I see you in... which is one that I get to decide.
"For every ailment under the sun....There is a remedy, or there is none;
If there be one, try to find it; If there be none, never mind it." ~ W.W. Bartley
Touche!! CG! I hear you
Touche!! CG! I hear you girl. I understand. I think you know what I mean too.
On the plus side of that relationship - that man made me feel more beautiful than ever after having gone through some very low self esteem times. So I understand.
Thanks honey!!
*** A rainbow just threw up on me... and now I'm sh*tting glitter! ***
Man I hope you still love me
Man I hope you still love me by the time I'm done.
He didn't make you feel anything...
He awakened it in you.. and you were finally able to see your own beauty. All he did was see you and helped you realize.
It was the first time you were able to believe it is all...
"For every ailment under the sun....There is a remedy, or there is none;
If there be one, try to find it; If there be none, never mind it." ~ W.W. Bartley
I commend you Stick and
I commend you Stick and others for coming out of the OW closet
I was going tit-for-tat on this post earlier siding for the BM but I believe that the outlook of BM/SM-OW relationship largely depends how intrusive the other woman was and the mental capacity for the BM to forgive.
Now with that being said your courage gives me strenght to come forth on the flip side. I have been the other woman as well. We dated when he was seperated from his wife of 4years. After couple of months he got back together without telling me. I figured it out quick enough but by then the emotions were too deeply imbedded. I knew if I had a chance I should make myself as scarce has possible because when the day came he would leave her (which never happened) I didn't want her to ever know my identity as the other woman. It ended when I realized their relationship was unfinished.
I couldnt tell what the outcome would have been if she had found out and he had left her for me. I would have been tremendously sorry for the pain I caused and wouldn't blame her for hating me. If he would have gotten any amount of custody I would have made a point to not be around the child until enough time passed by to somewhat heal the wounds I had a hand in. I knew the scars would always be there.
Go back almost 10 years ago. The affair my XH had at the time was with a very sadistic horrible excuse of a human being. She got pleasure out of destroying my family. She first became friends with my MIL, then she "friended my XH, then she friended my boss I worked at the time, joined my humantiarian group, took my kids to amusement parks and bought them things and MADE SURE that I noticed. She tried to buy the business MIL and XH were into. I don't understand why my XH allowed this--I believe at one point she was black mailing him and his mother in regards to the business they were in. Yes, my marriage was at a horrible state and I blamed XH and me both for the demise but this woman was purely intended to cause harm. No joke, it got her rocks off.
She was by far the only human being I've ever truly hated and feared. She intentially set out to DESTROY me...drive me insane and she almost did. She was a psychotherapist so she had the professional know how to mind-f#ck someone. It was my personal duty as a mother to keep her as far away from my children as possible. This woman in my opinion would have gone so far as to having an "accident" happen to one of them. She had connections like you wouldn't believe--straight up the mofia chain literally.
I left the marriage, filed for divorce, then they broke up and XH and I decided to give it one more try. Needless to say, I'm with someone else today. If XH had ended up with this woman I would have taken my children underground. I would have created my own witness protection program for us. No one would have heard from us again. OW was way too dangerous to be around. Losing their father would have been a major sacrafice but I wasn't going to risk my life and theirs.
I still believe as I said before. SM/OW shouldn't expect to be treated cordially by BM. And depending on BMs protective nature for her children she'll most likely go to great lengths to keep them away from her if she had the choice. This not excluding the husband for breaking the vows of marriage, however, most BMs know the children should have some kind of relationship with there dad so she'll comply.
There is something eeeerily
There is something eeeerily familiar about this OW you're talking about...... and I totally get you on this. I was ready to take perfectson and leave the country to keep him away from satan when she finally FINALLY left my life. I TOTALLY get you on this. There truly are some evil evil evil OW out there.
I so know what you're
I so know what you're talking about! When you mentioned what happened to you regarding OW situation it hit me straight on. She sounded just as psycho.
If you say she was from a slavic country I'm seriously going to freak!!!
No.... this one was from
No.... this one was from California... lol... but I BET it was her relative! lol
What I wonder is, when the
What I wonder is, when the BM tries with all her might to get everyone to believe that you were the OW, when in fact you were not and did not even meet your SO until after they were divorced...
I often wonder, do people feel this way about me? That I shouldn't expect any respect or decency because they think I was the OW, when I actually was not? I wonder what SS thinks of me, knowing that his mother continues to place her blame of their breakup on me. And I wonder, is this just something she purposefully continues to reiterate in order to justify the awful things she says and does?
Heck, in her last email to me she is STILL blaming me, and it's been six years!
I realize that if it weren't for you, SS wouldn't have a place to stay when he has to visit BF, but on the other hand, if it weren't for your and BF's actions, he wouldn't need to be there at all.
I honestly am beginning to think that she actually has come to believe that I really am the reason that they got a divorce. I have no idea in what universe that could possibly be true, but apparently that is the truth in her crazy world.
*~So sayeth Nymh~*
Nymh..... You know the
Nymh..... You know the truth. I know it can be difficult but you know the real timeline.
BM over here has done something similar to herself. DH left her in 1997 early 1998 (I am not quite sure, but know it was around then.) He went back to her once in that time frame too and left again.. so let's say 1998. When I met DH in 2002 - he had his own apartment and had been there for years. I had seen some of his lease papers as well during renewal. We moved in together in 2003. HOWEVER - the really tough part was that BM would not ever agree to signing divorce papers. He finally got her to sign in 2006!!!
Also, SHE had been dating during that time DH and I were living together. And we actually liked one of her boyfriends.
When SD started going through everything and wanted to come live with us.... BM was telling everyone - all the counselors and everyone that her and DH were "WORKING IT OUT" for 5 years after he left. She was trying for FIVE YEARS! Well, that's all a bunch of crap. 5 years after he left would be about 2003 when he and I moved in together. And she herself had been dating before and during that time.
She was dating others and so was he. She just was changing the story to suit her "Poor Me Victim" status.
That's all your BM is doing. She's rewriting history to make herself look more like a victim. She's placing the blame on you so that she doesn't have to own up to her own issues and faults in the demise of her marriage. She's deluding herself.
Hopefully it doesn't get to you. And when BM over here did that in front of me, DH and I both called her on it... and said... Uhhh what about "X".... you were dating him at that time? IS that trying to work it out with DH??
So.... have your husband - or if it were me and I had gotten that - I would respond and say... I know you may think this, but isn't this the truth ??? and then give her the timeline as you know it.
We have to talk BM into reality here every once in a while.
*** A rainbow just threw up on me... and now I'm sh*tting glitter! ***