Need Advice – Gun-ho Granny Chasing her PAS-ed Out SKiD Grandbabies
Need your advice and perspective about this. Am I thinking about this correctly?
Background:
The skids are PASed out—OSD since she was 14, and now at 20, remains completely estranged from her father. YSD, only recently PASed out a few months ago at 17, has also severed contact with DH. Neither daughter communicates with their father, despite the years he spent time, love, and all the care he has given them.
MIL, the mother-in-law from hell, adds another layer of toxicity to the mix. She’s deeply enmeshed with her sons, playing them against each other and their wives with subtle (and not-so-subtle) passive-aggressive tactics. The result? All of her daughters-in-law keep her at arm’s length—a necessity for their own peace of mind and sanity.
MIL thrives on control. She operates under the belief that she’s the sharpest tool in the shed, doling out unsolicited marital advice as though she were an expert. The irony? Her own marriage is a glaring example of dysfunction of what NOT to do! Decades ago, her husband has completely checked out, treating their relationship like a joyless cohabitation. It’s obvious he resents her—possibly even hates her—and their interactions reflect that.
Yet, during the holidays, YSD reached out—not to her father, but to MIL and an uncle. Not a word to DH. This particular skid has mastered the art of shunning—her ability to exclude and dismiss others is practically unrivaled.
Over the holidays, YSD reached out to MIL and an uncle to wish them a happy holiday, skipping right over her father, DH. The silence on her end? Deafening. This wasn’t an oversight—it was deliberate, another tactic in her well-honed game of exclusion.
MIL, of course, sees herself as the linchpin of the family—the irreplaceable link that keeps YSD connected to this dysfunctional web. She doesn’t see it as a shunning tactic; she views herself as stepping into a role me or DH can’t or won’t fulfill. In her mind, she’s the savior, keeping the fragile connections from breaking entirely.
MIL’s delusion goes even more profound. She doesn’t just act as a grandmother—she tries to parent the skids, stepping far beyond her role. When she overstepped with OSD, BM swiftly set a boundary, telling MIL to stop bullying her daughter. And MIL’s response? A full-blown victim act. She called DH and me, crying, insisting she was being unfairly attacked.
But here’s the thing: MIL isn’t a victim in any of this. She actively chases after people who clearly don’t want her involvement. She inserts herself into the lives of nearly-grown adults who already have a manipulative BM firmly in control—a BM who treats parenting like a cult leader safeguarding her followers. Yet MIL refuses to see the obvious or acknowledge her role in her own drama.
I dread Friday nights.
Every Friday night, like clockwork, MIL calls to “catch up” and find out what’s going on. But this weekend? Silence. No call. By Sunday, I was starting to wonder what had kept her from her usual interrogation routine.
Sunday night, she finally called DH. The reason for the delay? She had spoken with YSD.
Hallelujah.
MIL informed DH that YSD had landed a job. But here’s the kicker—MIL didn’t have any details. She didn’t know where YSD was working, how she got the job, or even when she started. That’s not like MIL at all. She’s a seasoned interrogator when it comes to extracting information. If MIL can’t pry it out of someone, you know they’re stonewalling her. My take? YSD wasn’t offering anything, and MIL was left pulling teeth.
Apparently, MIL managed to scrape together a little more from OSD, but it wasn’t much—just enough to feel like she had something to report. The lack of details was glaring.
Then came the cherry on top: MIL told YSD to call DH and apologize. According to MIL, YSD agreed and said she would. But guess what? She didn’t. Shocking, I know.
MIL’s selective blindness to YSD’s behavior is always astounding. She acts like her suggestions carry weight when, in reality, YSD does what YSD wants—and an apology to DH clearly wasn’t on her to-do list. It’s just another example of MIL inserting herself where she doesn’t belong, trying to patch things up without addressing the deeper issues at play. And yet, here we are—another cycle of MIL trying, YSD ignoring, and DH left just standing in the background watching it all unfold.
Here’s my questions and what I came up with:
PASed-out kids need space—it’s counterproductive for “self-important” relatives to interfere where they don’t belong, especially when they lack any real understanding of Parental Alienation. To me, it feels like a betrayal when they chase after the skids, knowing full well the skids want nothing to do with DH. Instead of helping, their actions undermine boundaries and prolong the dysfunction.
Why Space is Important for PASed-Out Kids:
- Critical Thinking Development: PASed-out kids need time and space to step away from the manipulated narratives they’ve been fed. Chasing them or constantly trying to engage can reinforce their belief that they’re always in control or can manipulate others to their advantage.
- Self-Initiated Relationship Repair: Healthy relationships are built on mutual effort. If they never experience the natural consequences of their actions (like estrangement or feeling the loss of a connection), they have no reason to reevaluate their behavior.
- Avoiding Enabling: Chasing them can unintentionally validate the toxic dynamic, where they feel justified in their treatment of their father because they know someone will always "welcome them back" no matter what.
By chasing after the skids and ignoring their toxic behavior toward DH and me, MIL is sending YSD the message that it’s acceptable to abuse, neglect, and lie about her father. She’s showing her that no matter what, there will always be someone ready to chase her down and welcome her back into this so-called “happy” little dysfunctional family. This kind of enabling only reinforces the cycle of disrespect and dysfunction.
By chasing after the skids and disregarding their abusive and disrespectful behavior, MIL:
- Undermines Boundaries: Instead of reinforcing the idea that healthy relationships require mutual respect and accountability, MIL’s actions send the message that their behavior has no real consequences.
- Encourages Entitlement: YSD and OSD may come to believe that they can behave however they like, and there will always be someone ready to cater to them without requiring growth or reflection.
- Invalidates DH’s Experience: MIL’s behavior minimizes the pain and betrayal DH feels as a result of his kids’ actions. This will drive a wedge between DH and me if I feel this is wrong, but DH (enmeshed with his mummy) will defend MIL to the bitter end.
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Comments
Yep. Force does not build
Yep. Force does not build relationships. This is especially true once children become adult children/adult stepchildren.
This is why I do not believe in reunification therapies that attempt to force a child into a relationship with a rejected parent.
I do believe that children should have to abide by rules of the household until the age of 18 but no one can change a heart with force or brainwashing.
In fact, in the long term, a forced approach greatly increases the risk of temporary alienation becoming permanent alienation. Relationships are built over a period time on mutual respect and love, not coercion or force.
Thanks for sharing your thoughts. I am dealing with adult SDiablas that triangulate and sh*t talk us to family and friends. It's no picnic.
Thanks for your input. I
Thanks for your input. I write your most recent post https://www.steptalk.org/blog/elea/diablas-are-diabla-ing-279924
I'm sorry you are going through what you are!
Imho.. this is actually great
Imho.. this is actually great....
YSD and MIL will likely get reciprocally burned by each other.. you can be non-committal and add no info or flame to fires.. let them roast each other.
If YSD name comes up? yeah.. no.. haven't heard from her.. ... "did she call her daddy to apologize".. "no.. not that I know of".
The side benefit.. it probably drives BM crazy.. and the three drama queens will be so busy making each other miserable.. you can just go on live life.. hahaha
You're absolutely right, and
You're absolutely right, and you've captured the dynamic perfectly. By disengaging from the drama and refusing to be pulled into the chaos, I’m not only protecting myself but also creating space for DH to process his emotions without projecting them onto me.
Here’s the core of it:
When I disengage, I break the cycle:
Toaster wisdom. Some of the best out there.
I had long taken the stance that I say what I mean and it is to be taken as it is said. This was not the most bond building perspective early in our marriage. DW would often reply with "So you are saying....." I would become irritated, interrupt and clarify that those words never come out of my mouth and never entered my mind and that I said exactily what I said and that is what I meant.
Not a good thing as I eventually learned. Fortunately I have a brilliant partner to share my life with who is far more than capable of holding her own when we disagree and has purged me of that disrespectful habbit. Or more accurately, allowed me the grace and been assertive in giving me clarity to figure out that I was being a jackwagon. We rarely have tension in our life together these days. We talk, we figure it out, and we embrace the moving on from there. Together.
Which I absolutely undertand is due to her patience, confidence, and zero tolerance of my historic bullshit. Thanks babe.143!
Thank you too Toaster. Wisdom is an incredible gift to others. I appreciate yours.
From the grandmother's view...
I am not defending your MIL, she sounds like a toxic, bothersome person and I'm glad she's not my MIL. As a grandmother of 9, I'm guessing she's thinking (kindest interpretation) that she"s just keeping touch with the GD, keeping communication lines open. She probably thinks she's performing a service for your DH by keeping him advised. I know, she's a manor pain and not doing anyone a favor but thats what I think is going on, in part.
Your SD might appreciate someone from DH's side keeping in touch with her. Sounds like the toxicity might run in the family.
I believe you are absolutely
I believe you are absolutely right, JRI. Thanks for your input!
I agree that force does not build relationships.
However, I am 100% convinced that fully forced accountability for chosen behaviors drives either clarity or distance. Both are a win IMHO.
I think that it is long past time that you and the rest of your MIL's DIL's plan and execute a full frontal ass baring mass intervention with MIL in person with all of you present, armed to the teeth with the historical facts, and you dissect her one molecule at a time with full direct accountability as each molecule at the core of her toxic manipulative cult leader being is ripped away and highlighted. Clearly highlight how her own marriage is a facade and her own DH can't stand her and that she is propagating that crap in the lives and marriages of her own sons and their families. Then, all the DIL's go out for a celebratory girls night or even weekend, bond, and plan the message that each of you will give to each of your DH's when they come home all but hurt over what their mommy earned in an ass baring alignment session from the DIL squad. All the DH's need to know that never again will their toxic manipulative mommy be allowed to maintain possession of their balls in her mommy purse. Never.... again!
If the DIL team guts mommy, and mommy is never tolerated to be the manipulator that she historically has been just maybe her baby boys will all finally be able to put a hand between their own legs, grab a big ole hand full of man sack, and deal with their baggage instead of having to beg mommy to temporarily borrow their own balls if they ever even have tried to borrow them from their mommy.
I have no idea how horrible this is for you and your DIL counterparts but I can imagine. Just the imagining is nauseating beyond measure.
Time for mommy's boys to grow TF up.
IMHO of course.
I wish we could all adopt
I wish we could all adopt this approach. Unfortunately, Gun-Ho-Granny has already executed her ‘divide and conquer’ strategy with her children and their spouses, leaving trust shattered among them. Being wealthy and holding the purse strings, Granny ensures her children tread very carefully around her, wary of upsetting the delicate balance she controls.
Yes. You are seeing this
Yes. You are seeing this clearly. And I hate this kind of game playing triangulation. Can you and DH not engage with her "intel" on skid?
I agree with Esmod: We know nothing. Change the subject.
Update
Last night, BM responded to DH on OFW regarding YSD’s new therapist. For context, BM has been attempting to move away from the court-ordered Parental Alienation Specialists involved in YSD’s therapy. Instead, she’s pushing for a new therapist who aligns with her "narrative." Well, it seems she’s succeeded and now expects DH to cover all the costs. But that’s a story for another day.
She dropped a subtle "dog whistle" to DH by mentioning that YSD has a "customer service" job. This is unusual because the BM doesn’t give details about the skids unless she has an agenda going on. After sleeping on it, I realized that when Gun-Ho Granny began blowing up YSD’s phone, the cult-leader BM was already two steps ahead. Most likely, unbeknownst to Gun-Ho Granny, she was either texting BM directly or BM was coaching YSD on what to say in response. This would explain why Gun-Ho Granny couldn’t provide us with any meaningful details—just cryptic, rehearsed tidbits that sounded more like half-assed text than a genuine conversation.
Gun-Ho-Granny: So, YSD, what are you doing?
BM as YSD: I got a customer service job.
Gun-Ho-Granny: Tell me about it, dear!
BM as YSD: I got a ‘customer service job.’
Gun-Ho-Granny: Tell me about it, please, YSD. Please, Please tell me more!
BM as YSD: I got a ‘customer service job.’
Gun-Ho-Granny: Okay, I got it, could you tell me more about it?
BM as YSD: I got a ‘customer service job.’ Got to go Gun-Ho-Granny!
In the most grating, high-pitched tone, Gun-Ho Granny called DH, practically squealing,
"See, see! I’m so brilliant! I did something you and Toaster couldn’t do! I got through to my Grandbaby, and she’s really communicating with me. See, see!" This outburst came right after she had likely been texting BM, mistakenly believing she was actually talking to YSD, and then promptly decided to blow up DH’s phone to gloat about her so-called success.
One thing ‘dense’ relatives of PASed-out skids fail to grasp is that the BM cult leader already has a carefully orchestrated communication plan in place, one she fully controls. The cult thrives on unity through a common enemy, and Gun-Ho Granny’s so-called ‘reconnaissance missions’ aren’t seen as helpful by the cult leader—they’re viewed as acts of espionage, direct threats to her control over ‘her family narrative’.
Per ESMOD, if I understand correctly, said it best. How do you think BM will respond to such perceived threats? She’ll likely tighten her grip, reinforcing her narrative and casting Gun-Ho Granny as a meddler or even another enemy. In her eyes, these ‘missions’ aren’t bridges—they’re provocations. And who do you think the cult leader BM thinks is behind these provocations? DH, possibly Toaster.
The reason cult leader BM permits communication between YSD—her ever-loyal “sleeper agent”—and Gun-Ho Granny is simple: money. Gun-Ho Granny is wealthy, with funds earmarked for the skids, and BM wants her offspring to benefit from it because it ultimately makes BM’s life easier. Of course, YSD is “allowed” to text Gun-Ho Granny during holidays, serving as a (tool) mouthpiece for BM’s agenda: get Gun-Ho Granny's $$$$.
But like JRI pointed out, Gun-Ho Granny likely thinks she’s doing something noble. At best, she probably believes she’s simply keeping in touch with her granddaughter and keeping communication lines open. Maybe she even sees it as a favor to your DH by “keeping him informed.”
Here’s the thing: I’ve worked in high-tech and STEM fields my whole life, collaborating with some of the most brilliant inventors and minds out there. They all had one defining trait: humility. They didn’t charge into a system they didn’t understand, thinking they could fix or improve it without fully grasping its inner workings. Instead, they studied the system meticulously, respecting its complexities, and acknowledged there were people smarter and more experienced than themselves, especially those with more experience and knowledge about a particular system under study.
That’s the kind of humility Gun-Ho Granny seems to lack. Instead of pausing to understand the dynamics of parental alienation or the intricacies of BM’s control, she barrels ahead, unwittingly reinforcing the very dysfunction she claims to oppose.
DH attempted to explain to Gun-Ho-Granny why he wasn’t chasing the skids; he explained why she shouldn't chase the skids. We even tried to educate her about Dr. Childress's work on Attachment Style Parental Alienation and Gardener's original work and the insights shared by the court-ordered Parental Alienation Specialists, the ones that the BM wants to flee from.
But no, Gun-Ho-Granny dismissed it all. She was and is convinced she knew better than the experts.
And YES, JRI, the swamp I stepped into has multigenerational toxicity!
Toaster, you are one smart
Toaster, you are one smart cookie!
You have to get away from your
MIL and her dysfunctional life. Do something so your too busy to talk with her. Stop the crazy train. And get off of it. You can't do anything about SK PASed out. It's too late. Disengage from all of this dysfunctional life. It's DH's problem, not yours.
What Harry said ^^^^
What Harry said ^^^^