OMG, is there no end to the selfishness?

Seriously, does this not take the cake? SS26 announced to DH and me that he, SDIL and SGDs were going out to an ice cream shoppe for lunch & ice cream. After DH and I have acted as servers all week, taking their dinner orders, calling them in, and then carting our happy @sses all over the area each evening picking it up and paying for it, do you think SS26 would even ASK if we wanted to go, or ask if they could bring us back something?! H*LL NO! And we would have given them money and not expected them to pay for ours. I guess I should be glad they paid for one meal for themselves, but I'm so disgusted. The only other time SS went out this week was to get swim goggles for SGDs. I found out after they returned that DS12 asked if they would bring him back a pair, and SS26 made some comment about getting "community goggles." He bought two small pairs picked out specifically for SGDs 5 and 7 that CLEARLY are theirs (and weren't offered to DS12 to use, although they wouldn't have fit any way) and DH and I ended up going out and buying some for DS12.

I've had just about all the self-absorbed, entitledness I can take and am hoping I can get through the last evening without spewing venom. No, I'm not surprised, but I sure am disgusted.

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He was probably hoping your

He was probably hoping your DH would say, "Oh, great idea, let's go! My treat!"

I think this is why you can't just go on pretending. Yes, it's "better" that you aren't doing all the work to pick up after them, but it's still an awful situation.

I agree. DH told me he also

I agree. DH told me he also noticed it, but based on how they were raised by BM to "get what they can" and think only of themselves, he's not surprised. What I really don't know is, what is the alternative unless DH is ok with just cutting them loose? We are hoping to have a lake house by next year and to do the family vacation there. I suspect they won't be willing to stay a whole week there, which is fine.

The alternative is to ask

The alternative is to ask them to help and to pitch in. Ask them to bring some food and do some cleaning. Say, hey your little brothers are cleaning up, can you please help them?

If they refuse to have anything to do with DH because they are asked to take out the trash, then so be it. Your DH has to face his fears head on and stop letting them walk all over him.

Problem here is bio mum has created this view its normal

Your husband has not actively taught the kids that their self centredness, selfishness is not ok and to stop being a bunch of stingy bums!!

my husband is the same blaming it on bio mum but in the 11 plus years since you divorced her, what have you actively done to state that this behaviour will not be tolerated?? Absolutely nothing!!

you blame bio mum but do nothing because you justified it as being too late

Wanted to say somethign

Wanted to say somethign similar. It is all well and good to blame their mother, but they had another parent who could have set different standards in his home if he had wanted to.

DH had EOW visitation. With

DH had EOW visitation. With such a small amount of visitation, it's virtually impossible to effect "change" in SKs, especially when fighting against BM who wants to be the favored parent at all costs and who had DH's exorbitant CS to do it with. It reached a point where oldest SS didn't want to visit, around age 12-13, and youngest was a short time later. DH not only had no influence during those years but both he and his family were vilified. If your DH had that kind of limited visitation and still managed to mold your SKs to be like him and not the BM, then I applaud him, as it's the exception and not the rule.

No one said it is easy

No one said it is easy raising kids in two homes. But we all have to accept responsibility where it falls and part of that responsibility to raise kids who think about others and try to show their apprechiation when they are gifted things fell on your husband. Excusses are all well and good, but he cannot ignore the fact that he failed himself and them by neglecting that then and accepting the situation as it is now rather than trying to adjust his relationship with these adults. Ignoring your husband's responsibility and placing all the blame on his ex is tempting but it doesn't help you, your relationship with your husband or the ability of your husband to progress beyond this attitude that he has no control over the situation.

I know our first reaction when faced with harsh truths is to protect ourselves and those we love but sometimes we have to face the painful truth that choices made have consequences and we all make bad choices.Moving forwards is a lot easier when we accept that.

Your assumption that my DH

Your assumption that my DH "neglected" to try to teach the SKs appreciation is totally false. Noting I said indicated that. I said it's virtually impossible seeing them EOW to effect change, and that's a fact, not a "cop out." Further, I said they did not visit due to PAS during a good part of their formative years. That doesn't mean my DH didn't model good manners for them, and it certainly does not mean he allowed them to be rude or hold them accountable for misbehaving while growing up. Further, I'm not making "excuses" for my DH. I've tried to be as fair as possible in describing the situation, including criticizing my DH when I feel it's warranted, so I can get the best feedback possible. What's not helpful is making assumptions that are not based in fact.

Op, your respinse is a common excuse used.

saying the minimal amount of time he has custody of his kids means he can’t effect change is a cop out. He should have the basic standards and expectations in his home because it is the right thing... not doing it because he feels its a losing battle to effect change is a cop out.

Its also not fair to the stepparent, half siblings or other stepsiblings in the home...

Please see my response above.

Please see my response above. In fact, I'm sure the fact my DH had rules and BM had few contributed to both SSs having limited contact with DH.

Please see my response above.

Please see my response above. In fact, I'm sure the fact my DH had rules and BM had few contributed to both SSs having limited contact with DH.

"Oh, great SS, let me see

"Oh, great SS, let me see what everybody would like and make a list for you."

If you change your behavior just a little bit, you can effect change. And as a mother, you shouldn't tolerate SS being a jerk to your little boy.

Oh, how I WISH I'd said that!

Oh, how I WISH I'd said that!!! The look on his face would have been priceless!

"After DH and I have acted as

"After DH and I have acted as servers all week, taking their dinner orders, calling them in, and then carting our happy @sses all over the area each evening picking it up and paying for it..."

Really?!?! No. You two haven't stopped. Were you participating and helping with this catering? And were you cleaning up at all? I don't know how you do it. It's not solving any problems at all and your frustrations are the same.

What entitled spoiled brats, just really....

I have collected and called

I have collected and called in orders, and DH and I have gone to pick up the food. I have texted my & DH's bios when we returned so they could help carry in the food. I've done very little compared to what I usually do. I'll continue to do almost nothing . It will be over with tomorrow for another year. SS will head out early with his family (he has about 2 hours fewer than we do) and we'll leave after we do everything required to get our damage deposit refunded. I'm a little miffed as I'm typing this as I'm watching my DH AND DS19 carry in the chairs and umbrellas we rented from the beach that SS26 took out there.

I don't mean to overstep,

but want to offer some food for thought: how do you think this dysfunction is affecting your bios? Do they recognize/comment on the double standard? Do they ever show signs of resentment? How do you think it makes them feel to see their father prostrating himself this way?

We used to have a very wise poster on this site. She loved her DH dearly, and over the years had put up with quite a bit of mistreatment from her MIL and three teen/adult SDs. Like your DH, hers made a good living and continued to chase after his adult kids. He was never able to draw boundaries with them. The poster disengaged for her own mental health and focused on her bios - two great, well rounded overacheivers - and her marriage. But by the time she left ST, her eldest had begun to turn against his Dad. He saw the double standard and the way his father grovelled, and lost all respect for him. I hear she's divorced now, and hope she and her kids are well.

If SS is unkind to your bios, that puts the entire dynamic on a whole different level. How do the SSs treat your sons? Are they close? Have you talked with your boys about the SSs? Have you listened to their feelings? It can't be good for them to see their father catering to their half siblings, then holding your boys to a different standard. You haven't shared anything about this with us, but as a mother I would be concerned about the effect (if any) this dysfunction is having on your sons.

Great points

you bring up! This dysfunction can be very damaging to the bios..which lasts a lifetime.

OP your SS sounds like a total prick...surely this affects everyone involved.

Will be done

Will be done for another year???? You can't possibly mean that you intend to do this AGAIN next year? You know what the definition of insanity is - doing the same thing over and over again expecting a different result. If you give these ingrates another luxury vacation with you acting as their servants, you are not a victim. You are a volunteer.

This would be absolutely

This would be absolutely maddening to me. I have no idea how you tolerate it. The way these adults treat you and your kids would eliminate all possiblity of me spending any time with them. And since your DH enables it and allows it, I wouldn't put myself in a position to watch him spend time w them. You must be a thousand times more patient than I am!

I am stunned that your

I am stunned that your husband is willing to go to the lengths he does to get a very occasional scrap thrown to him by his sons. Their behavior is disgusting, and his enabling of their behavior is pretty bad, too. I think I'd put my foot down, and tell him that if he wants to take his adult freeloaders on another vacation, he'll be going on said vacation with them alone, because you and your bios aren't going to be subjected to the boorish behavior of his kids again. Then stick to that.

You also mentioned a lake house. I'll bet his sons will want to vacation there - without you and your DH, of course. Good luck with that.

First, it's not accurate or

First, it's not accurate or fair at all to say I've done nothing but vent and have not tried to change the situation. My DH was aware of how upset I was last year and made a conscious effort to plan a vacation this year that would avoid many of the problems a beach house brings, by booking a 4-bedroom condo with housekeeping at a resort at a very popular beach. Also, I was going to fly down mid-week to minimize my time with them. However, due to COVID, we jointly decided to cancel the resort and book a beach house at a less crowded beach as the best way to social distance on vacation. The nearest airport is several hours away, so flying mid-week was less feasible. Still, having gone the direction of the beach house, we decided not to purchase any foods that needed cooked on the stove and to carry out all dinners, as well as, to purchase paper plates, plastic cups and utensils to minimize dishes. All of these decisions were a direct effort to try to make the vacation smoother. Due to these decisions, the change to the beach house has been smoother than last year.

Next, I haven't specifically discussed this situation with DS12, but I have discussed it with DS19. Both know the relationship with the SSs is strained, and I think they would rather help out and make things go smoother so it's less their dad or I have to do, and they don't sit around keeping score of who did what. I don't sense any resentment. DS19 and I were discussing the "ice cream snub," and he actually was joking about wanting a milkshake and how incredible it was that they didn't ask if he wanted anything. (I did let both DSs order dessert with dinner tonite and didn't mention it to anyone else; DH also said we'll stop for ice cream for DSs white traveling home.) I also discussed with DS19 as I have many times that I call him out when he's in the wrong and ask him to help because it's my job to make him a better person, and he's better for it, but I don't call out SSs. DS19 agreed I should do that with him and that he is better for it. Both bios are very close to DH & me (honestly, probably closer to DH), and I think they feel sorry for SSs that they didn't get to grow up in the same household with DH, which makes them less resentful of SSs' lack of contribution towards the family.

Next, DH and I had a very ugly discussion this evening about SS26's behavior. I did ask him point blank if he ever planned to ask SS26 to help out and if there was any way short of me not coming on vacation at all or a divorce to avoid being subjected to it. He made me sad by saying he knows he has a bad relationship with both SKs. I told him they don't care about either of us and said I guess he is fine with them treating us like crap, having a shell of a relationship and having them use us for what they can get. His response is simply he can't change the fact they were raised by BM to care about no one but themselves just like her. He just said the vacation is almost over, let's get through it, and we'll NEVER do a beach house again, as we hadn't planned to do one but for COVID. This is obviously a Band-Aid approach, as whatever vacation we do will provide different opportunities for SSs to be selfish a-holes. If we have a lake house next year, the vacation will be there, and I seriously doubt they'd stay a full week, so there's that.

Finally, this has nothing to do with my self-respect and everything with wanting to keep my otherwise happy 20 plus year marriage from ending over people we only see a few times a year. I do want to continue to try to make things better, but I don't want to win the battle and lose the war. Right or wrong, my DH is not willing to call out SSs on anything out of fear of losing them. And I know that's a valid fear. And I most definitely don't want to be responsible for that happening, because that could end my marriage. One thing that helps me deal with these things when they come up is venting here, for which I was criticized. However, that's what this site is for. Although I also hate it when people vent and do nothing to change the situation, for reasons I explained above, I don't think that's me.

For fear of losing them? THEY

For fear of losing them? THEY ARE LOST!

I'm guessing your marriage

I'm guessing your marriage will NOT end if you refuse to go along with this charade, but I get your fear. Your DH is able to see what he's doing, he's just unable to stop doing it because of his own fear.

Many women on here (a few in this thread) have successfully changed the dynamic in their marriage about enabling skids and maybe they will chime in again. But in the meanwhile, I often recommend the book The Dance of Anger, it can really help.

I'm just sorry that your

I'm just sorry that your husband hasn't realized that not only did he lose his older kids a long time ago but that he's in the process of losing his younger kids by running after the older ones... Bravo. He's going to be a very lonely old man once they're all estranged. Please try to make him see that the younger ones are worth fighting for... before it's too late.

I believe I criticized for

I believe I criticized for you venting, and I apologize. Vent away! But please listen to some of us who have been in this spot. Yes, people who you rarely see could result in the end of your marriage. And you also deserve some peace, rather than worry about the annual vacation and assured fallout.

I know you feel for your DH, but this is his issue to deal with. My middle-aged SDs expect for DH to do everything for them, and to visit them, and I have had to pull back and let him feel it and deal with it.

When I was involved facillitating/helping, all it did was cause further resentment and almost cost me my marriage. I pulled back and let DH deal with his kids all on his own. I haven't seen one in almost 5 years. The other only comes around when she wants info on what we are doing.

I don't understand why you are subjecting your own kids to the rude behavior of the SS's. Repeat after me" IT'S OK TO NOT HAVE A BLENDED FAMILY!!!

My bios have not seen OSD in almost 10 years. They have never seen her youngest child. My kids don't care. I stopped long ago trying to force family unity that was never going to happen. I would have been open to it, but DH's kids would never allow it, and that's the way it is.

My therapist at the time told me I really needed to pay attention to the serenity prayer, and that I needed to accept the things that I could not change. I did, and I believe that is what saved my marriage - rather than trying pretend we could be a happy family and then just get upset at how things turned out, which would only cause a fight.

My therapist also told me that my DH lives in a state of denial, and if I keep rattling his cage about his kids, it's not helping anything. The kids are grown. He does not know what to do and does not want to deal with it. The same applies to you. I had to accept that my DH lives in a state of denial when it comes to his kids and place myself somewhere where it does not affect me or our marriage. He rarely sees them, and we just get back to our happy/peaceful lives when he returns.

If you are concerned about saving your marriage, the best thing you can do is let DH handle his spoiled adult kids on his own. Men like their comfort most. After some time of handling the kids on his own, he will tire of it.

This. Especially you do not

This. Especially you do not have to blend your family.

Do your husband's kids even consider your shared kids siblings? Sounds like a big no. I sure hope your kids aren't "made" to feel (and act) like his kids are their siblings. They are not. Sharing some genetic material does not make "family".

No, I don't think they do

No, I don't think they do consider my bios "family." There is very little interaction between them. When both SSs were there, I noticed they and their DWs hung together and went off to themselves a good bit, I.e. they'd go hang out at a corner of our pool, then go to the beach together. During those times, even DH & I felt like outsiders, and I think that's part of why he wants me there. I have stopped doing a lot of the things I used to for SKs, and I definitely did almost nothing at the beach house.

So, if you and your bios were

So, if you and your bios were not there, your husband would be left alone.

Perhaps he needs that to happen so he can let go of the fantasy.

No, I don't think they do

This whole situation boggles

This whole situation boggles my mind. For one thing, since I became an adult with a job, I am the one who takes my parents on vacations and pays for everything. I would be SO uncomfortable with them paying for trips in their retirement, much less allowing them to wait on me. It seems to me that by the time you raise a child to adulthood, you're entitled to relax on vacations and not do anything that you don't want to do. It's vile that your SS and their wives are content to let their dad and you kill yourselves while they sit back and do nothing to contribute. I honestly don't know how your DH can even stand to look at them at this point. The entitlement is just beyond the pale.

My parents always paid for us

My parents always paid for us, but they had money and wanted to spend it that way. My mother still pays for a lake house for the family every summer. But damn sure, we help out and let my parents put their feet up and relax when it comes to labor.

Is it possible to just not

Is it possible to just not invite them for vacation anymore? They are grown (so to speak) and is it worth it for you, your DH, and your bio kids to have to go through the strife?

I know you said it will be different next year because you and your DH are buying a lake house, but how different will it really be?

If you enjoy having the grandkids around, maybe just invite them next year and pose it as a "drop the grandkids off with us and you go for a kidless vacay" scenario.

No, her husband insists

No, her husband insists because it is one on the very few times he sees his first family kids, unless it is a gifting holiday, gskid birthday (OP throws lavish party for) or they need money (like for a college laptop).

Additionally, skid wife will text and ask when the vacation is being scheduled!

Yes, exactly, all of this. I

@SteppedOut, Yes, exactly, all of this. I blogged about receiving a text from SDIL in the spring asking when "our" vacation was so she could plan accordingly.

Also, as I explained above, the plan to go for part of the week was changed due to switching the trip to a more remote beach farther from an airport due to COVID.

Well, not to defend these

Well, not to defend these ingrates, but no one has ever told them it's not "their vacation" and that they are behaving badly. It keeps happening year after year, so it's reasonable for them to assume that it will always continue.

I'm guessing your DH has been allowing them to take advantage of him for 10-12 years, so they don't know he has a problem with it. No one has told them otherwise.

I agree. When SIL asked about

I agree. When SDIL asked about "their" vacation, I'd have either responded with "great, where are you taking us? " Or "What are you talking about? "

How entitled can you get? She basically asked her MIL when she'd be spending her hard earned cash on her... How pathetic.

Well, again, my parents paid

Well, again, my parents paid for a family vacation for all of us since I was a young adult. It came to be something we expected, and asked about, and planned around. Of course, my parents don't wait on us hand and foot, but I can certainly see why these young adults think this is an expected yearly affair - it's happened every year, and no one has asked them to pay or to help in any way.

Of course, non-entitled young adults bring gifts or food and jump in to help, but no one has ever told them they have to, or that it bothers OP and her DH that they don't.

Your family vacations and OP

Your family vacations and OP's hellacious "family" vacations are not similar at all.

Tog, yours are loving family treasures, OP, husband and bios are looked at as means to an end.

You are here

OMG, is there no end to the selfishness?

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