SD People Pleasing
My stepdaughter is 7 almost 8, and since the beginning I’ve realized that she is a people pleaser to please her mom. Biomom is a nightmare. She is the epitome of toxic and narcissistic. Wretched is the word that comes to mind. At the beginning of my relationship with SO she would scream obscenities at me from her car during pick up and drop off of my stepdaughter. The first nine months of our relationship were that way until finally I guess she realized the only way I would communicate or engage with her is if there was some civility.
It was clear from the beginning that she loves her daughter very much, but she absolutely does not want her to love anyone else and it also became very clear she has an obsession with my SO to the point that over three years in she’s still trying to manipulate her way in.
I never really thought that any of this would be this hard even in the midst of major anxiety during pick ups and drop offs and fear of her actually achieving her wish I still just never realized it would be this tough.
She flip-flops between gushing over my SO and bad mouthing him to me. I put the block on that pretty quickly and let her know that bad mouthing him was a boundary I would not allow her to break. She tried to befriend me only to bad mouth him. It's easy to see through.
These last few months she is on a kick where she pretends I don’t exist and is now being kind and loving to SO. She sends him messages "this song always reminds me of you". He doesn't reply. It just makes me sick and dread any time there is interaction with her.
Anytime my stepdaughter is with us and talks about her mom I’m always pleasant and respond in a kind way. When her hair is braided. I say what a great job Mom did. I always ask about her day, her cousins and am always pleasant never negative about her mom to her. I cannot say the same is true for how her mom speaks of me.
She bragged when we first met how she was able to runoff any girl that my SO ever dated and I can see how because she tries every damn trick in the book. Her desperation is palpable. I do believe the stubbornness that I have and maybe even a level of spite has helped me push through
I’ve already surpassed any length of time that they were together ...together without breaking up that is because they dated on and off and on and off for 12 years. I’ve wondered if I have to get beyond the 12 year point for her to finally realize I’m not leaving, but I also don’t know that she’ll ever stop or ever give up.
Most recently my stepdaughter decided she wanted to play soccer and she is naturally athletic. Bio mom sends my SO a text saying "they need coaches, would you like to coach" and I am all for it. He’s great with kids. He’ll do a wonderful job and it will be a good bonding for him and SD but I know her real true motivation is to spend more time with my SO. What she doesn’t realize is that he asked me to help him so I’m at every practice and every game. She even sent him a message asking if he needed an assistant coach and how much SD would love it. Again her desperation is palpable. Thankfully my SO is smart enough to stear clear of that!
She’s on this "I love him. He’s my hero" type of phase right now and just stares at him with googly eyes and is sending him messages telling him how hard it is for her to see him, raise their daughter with another woman and believe me I do understand how that would be difficult for anyone, I do, but this woman’s motivation is not to confide in him about how hard it is. It is to try and make him feel shameful for not building a life with her and SD and regret for never marrying her.
The people pleasing she’s created in my SD is what really breaks my heart. I remember braiding her hair one day and the next time she came over, the hairband that I had used was stretched out completely like the size of somebody’s leg...completely unusable. Then when I did her hair the next time she didn’t want me to use my hair bands. I said "does your mom get mad if you’ve got my hairbands in?" and she said "yeah" very quietly so I bought her her own hairbands and said "make sure your mom knows these are brand new and they are yours"
That is one tiny example of trying to keep Mom happy and not upset..that she’s instilled in her child. Another one is if we are waiting in the car where we meet for pick up and drop off, SD will sit in my lap and hang out, but the second that she sees her mom‘s car pull in she will hop out of my lap. She won’t hug me in front of her mom. She won’t say I love you.
All of this I’m ok with accepting because I don’t ever wanna make her feel bad or be "that" influence. I just hate that her mom has made her this way for her own narcissistic, selfish feelings about me.
The most recent was at their first soccer game. It truly did break me. Usually, my SD will at least talk to me and even if she’s not like running up and hugging me in front of her mom like she does when her mom‘s not around she still will talk to me but at this game she completely ignored me. I mean I said "have a good game sweet girl". "Good morning beautiful" but she full on ignored me as if I did not exist and wasn’t there.
When we were leaving my DH and I are walking to his truck...her mom and her are getting into their car. She’s head out the window screaming "I love you Dad" smiling real big as bio. Mom stands there, smiling too and laughing with her and I walked by to get in our car and say "good game sweet girl, you played great one of the best out there" and again she completely ignored me. I swear her mom rolled her eyes at me.
It hit harder that day. For whatever reason, It’s never been that harsh before, it’s never been that blatant and I broke down in the car on the way home. Of ourse my SO is like "you know this is not you, it's just because her mom makes her feel like she has to. You don’t need to let it get to you" but it did. It broke me. It was tough. It bothered me all weekend and even now writing this. It makes me tear up.
Here’s what I know, this woman will never stop. She is a toxic narcissist and she’s not going to change and there’s nothing I can do about that. I have known from day one that my only option is to be the positive example in my stepdaughter‘s life. The other thing I know is that my SO is not buying what she’s selling.., he doesn’t feed into her junk. I think he is happy that she’s actually being kind and not a total jerk to him constantly so he’ll take the kindness and be polite and fairly friendly back but he’s not buying what she’s selling.
Finally, I know that little girl regardless of how she acts in front of her mother loves me. When it’s us just us or just me her and her father, we have a ball and she says she loves me and she hugs me and she is very affectionate.
What was it that broke me Saturday? What got to me so bad and why. I realize it was so blatant and I was full on ignored and that’s tough for anyone that’s just facts, but there were also other parents for the soccer team that were there. They know that I am coaches other half and here’s this beautiful little girl that I cannot claim as my own, but that I love dearly that is ignoring me in front of all of them. That’s my ego talking...fear of what they may think.
I just have to remind myself. You are not the person that cares what other people think it does not matter and let it go and continue to remind myself of the things i know to be true.
Does it ever get easier?! Reading everyone's blogs, I'd lean toward that answer is a "No!" I take solace in this woman's failure to achieve her goals of making her child hate me and her baby daddy come back to her. I take solace in the love I do get from this beautiful little girl for as long as universe allows. I give myself some grace and accept that my feelings are likely to be hurt again. I grasp and understand that all of it, every single bit is out of my control.
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Comments
It is great that you are recongnizing SD is in a loyalty bind.
It is great that you are recongizing SD is in a loyalty bind. Her feelings for you are genuine, but she knows if she expresses them to BM in any way that she will be punished in some fashion. BM may withold affection, or may yell at her, or show in some other way that it is wrong for SD to express anything positive about you. So, SD is going to ignore you when BM is around in order to protect herself. Of course this makes you feel awful, but keep in mind SD is doing this as a way to survive.
You should block BM on any electronic devices, there is no reason for you to communicate with her - that should all happen with DH. And he needs to limit his communication to only what is absolutely necessary. Look up "BIFF" and "low contact" for helpful advice.
You might also want to reconsider how often you are interacting with BM as well. There is really no need for you to go to picks ups. If DH needs a witness, change the location to a local police department that has cameras. Resist the urge to not want to "let her win." I understand the urge, but sometimes it is best to pick your battles. If it was me, I would really think about the assistant coaching thing. Yes, you want to be there to let BM know DH is yours, but how much stress is it going to put on SD? I'd really keep an eye on her and see how she is handling it. She is very young and BM is obviously very difficult. Maybe try not going to one game and see what DH thinks about her stress level.
As to whether this will get better, I hate to tell you, but it probably won't improve much. What you can do is learn what you can control and where your red lines are and then fight for those. Let everything else go. This child is in a very difficult position and it is wonderful that you are doing your best to understand and support her.
BM most assuredly does not love her daughter. She does not love
at all. Except in worshipping her own delusion.
Toxic POS people are just that. Nothing more.
Yes, SD has a loyalty bind. That is a clear outcome for kids who are cursed to have lost the parent lottery with someone like this BM.
BM's toxic delusion does not justify her own behavioral and manipulative crap, and the loyalty bind does not justify SD's crap either.
Agreed!
Agreed!
SD was 8 when we got married
SD was 8 when we got married and she was quickly put into a loyalty bind. Many things have transpired since, but now she is fully PAS'd at almost 15. BM's behavior is modeled for SKs and unfortunately personalities/pre-dispositions are also genetic. I wish I paid more attention to that when SD was younger.
She has truly taken on the manipulative/toxic personality. Not just me. But friends/teachers/extended family, etc. I wrote little nuances off when SD was younger. "Oh, BM is probably telling her to say that." And I justified ALL of SDs negative behavior towards me. I wish I saw it sooner, but part of her is also BM to a tee.
Wishing you some clarity & protect your peace. Get as much space from BM as possible.
I get that your DH isn't
I get that your DH isn't replying to BM's sappy texts, but has he indicated that he wants her to stop? My ex DH used to do that. Long sappy late night drunk texts. I ignored them for a long time but one day i texted back and said "Look, this has to stop. You have to stop. I want you to stop sending texts about our past or our relationship. Please only text me about the kids and only if it is necessary." It worked.
I would Love for my SO to set
I would Love for my SO to set that boundary with BM. He's trying to keep the peace and from a page out of my own book of enemies...kill her with kindness. That's not to say he's responding to her gushing over him but that he is being kind regarding SD etc. I do hope he sets that boundary one of these days but so far his reply to me is that I give her too much air or let her get to me too much.
His being kind is a far cry from the toxicity that they were very much used to before I showed up. They set each other off with the tiniest comment and would just unleash. So in that regard it's an improvement. I just wish she would kick rocks.
You recognize that the girl
You recognize that the girl is in a loyalty bind with her mom.. I think the best way to deal is to not try to push into that space. You are fully aware that you calling her "sweet girl" in front of mom is going to grate.. getting her to respond to you when she is with mom.. yeah.. that is setting the girl up to get "punished" by BM.. so don't put her in the position. You know the little girl is not in a good situation here.. she is not giving you problems when BM is not around.. she acts like she likes you etc.. so just take it for what it its.. it's difficult for the girl to show you affection in front of mom.
My BM was very much like that.. she would take it out on the girls when we did things that were "too nice" for them.. or if BM thought I bought things for them.. so it was easier to minimize that. At a sporting game.. I might say hello.. but not make any attempt to interact with the kids unless they initiated it... just wasn't worth it.. since they were the ones that suffered the consequence.. and in the end... I understood it was not personal.. at least not from the kid's POV.. they were self preservating since BM was the PCP
I'd meet it half way
I wouldn't push SD to say I love you, or miss you lots etc. when she's with BM, but I also wouldn't stand for being ignored. I'd have a chat with SD. Give her the words to frame what she's going through. Let her know that you understand that she's in a "loyalty bind". That she feels she has to ignore you to make BM happy. But that means she's not being honest. Not to you, not to BM and not to herself. She shouldn't change who she is to make people happy. If she loves you and you love her, then you'll try not to put her on the spot, and you understand that she's not going to try to hurt BM intentionally, but she's not to be careless with your feelings either. So when you say good game! she needs to say a happy "Thanks!" back. If you say see you tomorrow, then "Yup, bye!!" is an appropriate response and not with rolled eyes and attitude to suck up to BM. The child you and your DH are raising is a good, honest polite child. And you expect her to behave as such no matter who she's with.
We did that with our kids, and BM was unhappy at first, but eventually she chilled out. The kids also had to ask her to please stop badmouthing "their family". And regardless of what BM thought, DH and I were family. Having the kids stand up for us was hard for them, but because they did it, eventually made their lives a lot easier. Because eventually the only answer she got to a dig about us was "please stop". It took the fun out of the game, and it let her know that she wasn't being badmouthed at our house.
I would say that the way the
I would say that the way the things were phrased might be a little triggering to BM.. so cut out the "sweet girl".. "beautiful" comments.. those are acting "mom-like".. and that is pushing it a bit for a kid that clearly is dealing with a toxic mother.
I would say.. yes.. civility is important.. Have a good game. period.. the response a simple "thanks".. that's enough.
I tend to agree with you here
I tend to agree with you here. I've been trying to figure out the best way to approach it with SD without making it worse or making her feel bad. Before today I didn't even have the language "loyalty bind". I don't try to say i love you or miss you in front of BM nor do i even try to hug SD. I do my best not awaken the beast that is BM. Unfortunately my very existence does that and things that make my SD happy have already brought on her mothers wrath.
When getting my SD to sleep in her own bed, we gave prizes when she slept through the night in her own bed and one of those prizes was a craft making shells. One of the ideas on the box was a peacock, so it was painting the shell certain colors, gluing on little googly eyes and I was doing this craft with my SD. She loved the shell that I made and wanted help making one of her own, but she chose a small shell and I helped her. I didn't do it for her, but I helped her. I guess my SD went home and told her mom how she slept through the night and she got a prize and that she and I made mother-daughter shells. It was a large peacock and a little baby peacock and that's how my stepdaughter viewed it. I never called it that but it set her on fire.
Again,just one tiny example. Another was two Christmases ago. Her class sent out a message saying that they were decorating their very own class Christmas tree and that students should bring in ornaments that represent them and their homes. I knew BM would send in ornaments that are pictures of her and my SD. I had one ornament made. It had pictures of everything that we had done together that year around it and I made sure to send it with SD in her book bag on a day that we had her, so she could take it into her class and hang it on the class tree. Apparently, she forgot, and it was still in her book bag when she went home. Upon finding it BM, lost her mind and smashed the Christmas ornament, which left my stepdaughter crying
I don't ever want my stepdaughter to feel caught in the middle or trapped, and I don't wanna make it worse. It doesn't matter how careful I am. This woman will lose her mind no matter what happens ...just us living our lives and so I do think a conversation with my stepdaughter is the right course of action I just have to choose the right words.
My YSD was a literal adult..
My YSD was a literal adult.. like 22 years old and was on a day trip with my DH and I to go get some steamed crabs in a neighboring state.. Her mom called her while she was with us.. SD made the mistake telling her she was with us.
Her mother told her "well.. guess you love your dad more than me." and then hung up and literally BLOCKED her daughter's number and unfriended her on social media. I mean.. that's unhinged.
At this point.. YSD knows how to walk the line.. she does love her mom.. but doesn't stop her from doing things with us.
That IS unhinged! I can see
That IS unhinged! I can see this being my future but hopefully not. Hopefully there more sense in this woman's body that's she's shown this far but I am also not counting on it.
As info "Sweet girl" and
As info "Sweet girl" and "beautiful" were all out of ear shot of BM. But she did glance at her mom before ignoring me and running off. Clearly that day she felt that even talking to me would set off BM.
You are not going to win,
BM has SD screwed up to her. Get any idea that SD. Will love you and being a daughter to you. You are just her BD wife,
'Stop playing games with BM. Disengage from her block her on all Media . Make a life with DH not including SD. It's his child and he takes care of her. You don't do any child care. Sorry it hs to be this way.
Remember m in important events like weddings and graduation you will not be in the picture. You may not be invited, not enough tickets
Wow!
That may be true for some, but it is not true for all. I am very much involved in the lives of all of our kids and have been to every graduation and milestone event. BM tried all of the things mentioned above, but as the kids got older they knew who they could count on to behave reasonably, and who they could count on. Alienation does not have to win. But conversations have to start when they are young so that they can learn to question inappropriate behaviors.
It really depends on the
It really depends on the stepparent's spouse. Some allow the BM to run the show and exclude their wife, and some don't. You read horror stories on here of guys leaving their wives at home and going on birthday dinners with BM and the skids. Quaking in their boots at the thought of disobeying BM. And some husbands make sure their wives are respected.
Absolutely conversations have to start early. From the instant
Absolutely conversations have to start early. From the instant that the PAS targeted parent re-partners. Facts matter. They are neither good, nor are they bad. They are merely facts. The kids need the facts in an age appropriate manner starting as young as possible continuing through the CO years and throughout adulthood. This is critical to the kidults being able recognize the facts and to protect themselves from the toxicity of the shallow and polluted end of their gene pool. Those people never stop. Kidults and the quality side of their lives have to maintain diligence and keep the proverbial enemy outside of the gates fo their entire lives.
Even if the SParent enters the picture with older or even adult SKids, the breeder in the new marriage must instantly set and enforce standards of behavior and standards of performance with the kids. All of the kids in the picture. His, hers, and in the event of joint children, the ours kids as well. The SParent has to enforce as well. Because when breeder mommy or breeder daddy are not present the standards have to remain inviolate. Unfortunately it is often if not usually the case the SParent has to be the primary enforcer of standards and respectful reasonable behavior because failed family breeder mommy or daddy that is married to the SParent won't do it out of divorced mommy/daddy guilt. These types seem to think that their failed family spawn are something fragile and that as CODs their noxious disrespectful bullshit is somehow justified.
Standards do exactly what you mentioned. They plant the framework for a kid to recognize and then question inappropriate behavior from the shallow and polluted end of their gene pool.
Sadly, way too many CODs are cursed with a shallow and polluted end of their gene pool. Tragic reaches its peak when the kid's entire gene pool is shallow and polluted. That is also the pinnacle of SParent hell.
SParents who are confident, have clear standards for how they will be treated within a blended marriage, and tolerate no crap tend to have strong relationships with their SKids and live a life of adventure and create a love for the ages with their prior breeder mate.
Tragedy happens when the SParent tolerates toxicity in the members of the blended family and the peripheral Klingons (Xs, ILs, etc...). The love through it naivete is far more often than not a self supporting prophecy of crap behavior, disrespect, and tends to sacrifice yet another marriage to the divorce pile.
"Alienation does not have to win." That is absolute truth. My stance is that toxicity and violation of the standards cannot ever be tolerated. Not one bit. Crap behavior has to be immediately met with such overwhelming misery inducing consequences that violation of the standards will never again be attempted.
Standards. Always.
Lather, rinse, repeat.
IMHO of course.
Always here for Rags comments
Always here for Rags comments. Thank you for this. I agree with you and several opinions on here. I appreciate all the responses. I did have a conversation with my SD over the weekend. I explained that I know she probably feels stuck and wants her mom to be happy but to completely ignore me is disrespectful and truly not ok. I explained that I will never go out of my way to hug her or say sweet gushing words to her in front of her mother but I will say hello. I will say good game and I expect her to politely acknowledge me and respond. I went on to say that I wish her mom didn't feel the way that she does and that I wish she didn't feel like it was her job to manage that. I told her she shouldn't have to change who she is around anyone even momma. She said she understands and will not ignore me like that again.
time will tell...
You are fortunate. It appears that you have a SKid with a brain
Many do not. I would even say that most do not.
Focusing on behaviors allows us to ignore things like a loyalty bind. The kid knows what the standards are and that violating those standards has consequences. Mommy having issues does not forgive a violation of the standards. Kids who have the foundation of standards learn very quickly and early that the crap generated by the shallow and polluted end of their gene pool is what it is. Pure crap.
Our kid was introduced early to standards and the facts when the SpermClan would try to drown him in bullshit and manipulation. By the time he was in his mid teens he knew the facts and every word in the CO, our comprehensive Custody/Visitation/Support files in our home office. He had listened to every ranting SpermGrandHag answering machine message, every telephone call recording, and every second of court recordings. As he grew from early toddler stage to 18yo and beyond his growing knowledge of the facts, SpermClan history, etc... became increasingly infuriating particularly for the toxic manipulative SpermGrandHag. She hated that he knew it all in detail. That was her fault. SS would come home from visitation upset that we were mean, we took food away from SS's three also out of wedlock Spermidiot spawned half sibs by two other baby mamas, that CS bought SS nice things, a nice house, nice cars, good schools, vacations, etc.... My bride being a CPA put together kid friendly spreadsheets and charts showing the pittance in CS ($110/mo, then $133/mo, etc.) comparied to the cost of the home we purchased, food, costs of cars, taxes, etc... The sliver that CS was compared to our annual spend to live made a huge impression even on pre-tween SS and that clarity progressed until he aged out from under the CO at 18.
Kids need the facts and they need the quality side of the blended family equation to have their backs, and enforce standards of behavior and standarfds of performance. Kids can be kids a whole lot easier under that structure than they can under the manipulation, lies, rants, loyalty binds, and PAS that the shallow and polluted end of the blended family equation perpetrates against the kid.