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Always a competition

Movingonisbest's picture

Just been thinking. But I have noticed that the few serious relationships I have been in, there has always been another woman in the man's life competing with me or trying to sabotage the relationship (generally it has been the man's mom or sisters). I did have one admit she was actually jealous. This last relationship I was in it was mostly the man's youngest daughter being the problem. I guess what I don't understand is why a man's female relatives find a need to compete with a woman in the man's life? I have men in my family and I have never ever thought about doing this. In fact it is actually weird just thinking about competing with a woman in one of my male relative's life. Thinking more in depth, the women who have done this have generally used, abused, controlled, or manipulated etc. the man. Is it always jealousy like the one woman admitted to me or could it possibly be something else? I have never competed with or tried to sabotage any of the relationships my dad has been in. So what a shock this was when my now ex's youngest daughter pulled this stunt even though she hasn't spent time with her father in several years. Thoughts?

Comments

DHsfamilyfromhell's picture

I get you, it’s happened in my life a lot. And yes sometimes it feels weird and yukky (I wouldn’t dream of doing that to my family).

A partial answer is occasionally it is social exclusion, so a woman maintains her social status in society (or family group). Ie a manipulative and sometimes narcissistic mother in law might sometimes do this. 

You most likely have offended someone by being too beautiful, or too kind, or too funny etc. 

Try not to let these people upset you. 

Movingonisbest's picture

DHS family, I appreciate your response. Thanks for letting me know I'm not the only one who experienced this and possibly why. I try not to let people like that upset me but it is frustrating. Oh and I forgot to ask, when dating men with adult daughters is this something I should expect ie them competing or sabotaging the relationship?

shamds's picture

sd’s are a common one and when you break it down, they have never been taught respect of boundaries, they have been placed into equal wife/aloha female status as the wife of their dad.

Their hcgubm narcissistic pos has taught them abuse and manipulation to get your way is normal. My husband for example cannot have his youngest daughter from ex aged almost 15 because eldest sd24.5 controls her access since bio mum palmed off care to her years ago when they ceased contact

they are just like their mum thinking if they ceased contact that daddy would put his life on hole and jump through hoops. The jumping through hoops did no favours for anyone 

when sd’s started crossing the line by disrespecting pur boundaries and privacy and relaying everyting to bio mum and stepdad vis the interrogation debrief/report, even my 2 children aged 1 & 2.5 were not spared. What we did, where we went, what we spoke or wore...

then sd’s thought they could control and mummy me around, would tell me what they would do to my kids when they were being 100% inappropriate.

at a nephews engagement party they decided to feed my 2 yr old in a white dress melted chocolate that had been sitting in an extremely hot car for 6 hours. It was everywhere when i turned my back for a few seconds to put my son in his seat. All they did was sit there with a smirk.

they’ve even banged on our bedroom door 7am screaming like a banshee wanting special sugar they bought from their aunt in the car whilst we were having sex and our 2 kids were sleeping. They could have waited for their dad to leave the room 30mins later but when bio mum has never respected boundaries well neither do you

final thing is when they manipulate daddy for money. My 24.5 yr old sd has been in fulltime employment since feb last yr. every yr she reminds daddy she needs his $1000 per month to help care for her sister when hubby is paying cs to bio mum... whether bio mum sends all of this to sd who knows because they never disclose anything

i never signed up to be married to a man financially supporting skidults!! As long as that happens we can never have a proper functioning marriage.

i also find it laughable when a sd is placing herself as same league as stepmum... its just disgusting!! Worry about your own sexlife and romantic life and not that of your dad

Movingonisbest's picture

Shamdds You said "final thing is when they manipulate daddy for money. My 24.5 yr okd sd has been in fulltime employment since feb last yr. every yr she reminds daddy she needs his $1000 per month to help care for her sister when hubby is paying cs to bio mum... whether bio mum sends all of this to sd who knows because they never disclose anything. i never signed up to be married to a man financially supporting skidults!! As long as that happens we can never have a proper functioning marriage." Yes, the manipulation is hideous. Imposing on other people's lives instead of getting up going out working for the things they want in life like normal healthy adults. As time went on it became clear to me that his adult kids (especially the youngest daughter) were nothing like he portrayed them to be. His adult kids are the only young adult kids I know that don't work enough to take care of themselves. They regularly call him for money and the youngest got to the point of either demanding it, by verbally abusing him to get it, or shedding fake tears to get it. I was like wtf?? My adult kids are around the same age as his adult kids and mine are independent, their friends are independent, my friends young adult kids are independent, my young adult family members are independent, etc. So rather than address the issues he decided to cover it up in hopes that once I found out the truth I would actually stay with him? Shamds it's bad enough when daughters do this but his sons were culprits too. Smh. 

You also said "i also find it laughable when a sd is placing herself as same league as stepmum... its just disgusting!! Worry about your own sexlife and romantic life and not that of your dad." You are so right. My ex's youngest daughter would have nothing to bring to the table of her own relationship if she had one. She lies, steals, manipulates, is disrespectful, verbally abuses her dad, doesn't want to work, and has been in college in some cases long enough to get a master's degree yet hasn't even completed her sophomore year of college. This is a 24-25 year old woman that I believe he thought I was going to come along and play mom to. Trying to pawn that burden off on me because according to him he wanted her to be just like me. Every woman in his life has a degree (including me when I was in a relationship with him) except her. He had the nerves to say if he keeps believing in her and loves her enough she could turn out to be the kind of woman I am which is exactly what he wants her to be. Smh. This message board and others helped me realize the problem isn't just his adult kids. He has severe problems too.

shamds's picture

Themselves this is normal and acceptable.

my husband will be retiring early in approx 2 yrs. hopefully early 2022 i will be in fulltime employment once my studies are finished. Hubby warned his kids 2 yrs ago they were on their own as the eldest 2 would be adults and the youngest is an adult age 21 but finishes school aged 17. 

In hubbys asian country they do not force a retired person to pay cs to someone old enough to earn. Skids do their standard reply “very well dad” but i know the shitstorm will happen “daddy you abandoned us for that woman mum calls a whore and those 2 kids of yours...

thing is my income alone is enough to sustain us and it will grow rapidly pretty quick. Skids sure will claim dad abandoned them and we live a rich comfortable life. 

But you know what?? I have been studying fulltime on my own and raising 2 toddlers and kindergarteners on my own the past year and through covid lockdowns with my husband in another country the past 5 months.... i and kids have been sick and i still had to just suck it up. I have sacrificed heeps and made the bloody effort. My reward will be my career and good salary but skids will not see that. 

Even when hubby retires he wants to do part time work as a supplementary income to cover bills etc... but no way is any portion of my income subsidising skids lives.... not 1 cent!! Them claiming life is so hard is effin laughable 

i have told my husband it’s deplorable despicable behaviour like this which makes it real hard to want a relationship with them and our kids will see them as vermin stealing things off people

when hubby makes excuses for skids, i remind him his niece is a nurse and her brother a dr. They lost their dad when they were like around 10 (just before teens). Mum solely supported them as a head nurse. The girl is 23 now and last year bought a home (got a loan on her own). They had an even tougher life than skids and guess what?? They aren’t lazy mothereffers so cut out the bs excuses hubby. It’s ridiculous and laughable!!! 

When i ask hubby why his kids can’t be like that, its dead silence

Jojo4124's picture

Sd 23 did SAME thing at 7am...asking where the eye drops were... stbexdh  got up...we were having sex! To help poor widdle sd. She was jealous of us as I believe they are incestuous. She interrupted us another time by calling his phone twice...again he got up to answer her call. He showed me who his primary lover was ickkk

Exjuliemccoy's picture

One of the most common themes on ST is the lack of boundaries, be it BM, our partners and their exes, our partners and their kids, the in laws, etc. When parents don't raise their kids with structure and a respect for boundaries, kids grow up thinking the rules don't apply to them and become manipulative a$$holes running their own agendas; and adults who don't know how to draw and maintain appropriate boundaries end up getting walked over and abused.

Lets be honest - it takes two to kill a marriage/relationship. Most of the parents who are "normal" - functional, well adjusted, come from good family and are good parents - are still in intact relationships, so we come here to vent about the three legged dogs we chose. Many of them come from dysfunctional families and went on to perpetuate that dysfunction. Some were abused and damaged by previous partners. This is why it's so very important to thoroughly, slowly vet the people we date, including observing their family of origin. If I had known then what I know now, I probably would have told my DH to lose my number after attending that first Christmas with his crazy family.

I have learned so much on ST about about my own gender. Females can be a PITA!  Females care about territory and control, whether it's a dynamic, another individual, or both. The ones who grow up without proper boundaries, who don't have engaged mothers and strong fathers willing to check misbehavior and wrongheaded beliefs, learn how to use manipulation and stomp boundaries to get what they want. Many of them constantly test boundaries, looking for that weak spot so they can assert, play their games, and regain that sweet control.

It all comes back to boundaries. If your man isn't able to draw them and enforce them, comes from a family of Godzilla-like boundary stompers, or has an ex and/or kids who won't respect them, your step experience is going to be a rough ride. 

 

Rumplestiltskin's picture

I realized (way later than i should), that the disarming charm of my SO and feeling that we knew each other and were close immediately was due to his crossing boundaries, which to my idiot self, felt like "wow, we are so close so fast!" And if i'm honest, my problem is likely codependency. The personality disorders or neuroses of the people involved take what is already a very difficult situation and make it impossible. 

Exjuliemccoy's picture

Don't be too hard on yourself, Rumpy. We're all here because we made mistakes.

What's great is you're owning your part. If more people were like you, we wouldn't need StepTalk.

Movingonisbest's picture

Exjuliemccoy, this entire comment was extremely  insightful. You also said "Females care about territory and control, whether it's a dynamic, another individual, or both. The ones who grow up without proper boundaries, who don't have engaged mothers and strong fathers willing to check misbehavior and wrongheaded beliefs, learn how to use manipulation and stomp boundaries to get what they want. Many of them constantly test boundaries, looking for that weak spot so they can assert, play their games, and regain that sweet control." This part was so helpful. This issue when it came to stepkids is the first and hopefully the last time I come across something like this. It was hard for me to understand but I remember telling my ex a big part of the reason his youngest daughter is so horrible is because he was a weak man and a weak father and how there is no way in hell my dad would allow me to behave like that and not correct me (though I would never behave like his daughter does anyway). I didn't really know that was the underlying problem. I was mostly just speaking on my relationship with my dad growing up.

Your other statements about boundaries make sense. If one partner has boundaries and the other doesn't things don't work out well. Thing is my ex lied pretending like his kids knew not to disrespect him, but the truth is, they do disrespect him and treat him like crap.

StepUltimate's picture

Great observations. I see the male/female relationships & ranking with my cats & dogs, too. Taught me a lot. 

Exjuliemccoy's picture

I've been a huge animal person my entire life, but it took joining ST to see how certain behaviors are common with all mammals. And we see the same themes over and over.

I remember the first time I read a post about a SD who wouldnt properly dispose of used feminine hygiene products. It was just gross yet comforting, because YSD was the same way, and I still believe that's a way of marking territory.

Lifer33's picture

I've not experienced this personally but my aunty is v odd. She shown an almost incestuous interest in her younger brother, his male child and my brother over the years. To the point my cousin was alienated from his own mother and went to live with aunt. My aunt rejected all the wives and girlfriends, none were good enough so she tried to push them out. My brother got it and confronted her during a big bust up at my parents home ten years ago. Aunty left and didn't speak to my brother or her own brother /sil again. then my parents died so never made peace. I honestly think she's got severe mh issues and it's sad as she's only hurting herself. Nobody bothers with her and If she does get invited to anything she tries to make a drama. The latest was my other cousins wedding. Right up to the last minute she was spoiling it for the grooms mum with the 'I probably won't come (beg me to come) my other aunty just turned around and said' you know what dnt come then, stay home be miserable like you are the other 364 a day ' she did turn up but turned her nose up and made spiteful comments about everything 

Exjuliemccoy's picture

Your Aunty reminds me of a female cat I once had. She was a shelter cat - neurotic and likely inbred. Later I took in a pregnant stray, and when she had her kittens, the other female kept stealing them. She'd dart into the mama kitty's box, grab a kitten, and drag it off. The cat made no effort to nurture the kittens she stole; she just wanted to possess them.

Does your Aunty date and have healthy relationships with other men? I ask because my late FIL had enmeshed relationships with his daughters and granddaughters. He also was something of a misogynist, so he never remarried or dated after his children came to live with him. He got all the female love and adoration he wanted from his daughters, and they continued to live with him for decades after reaching adulthood.

Kes's picture

I have experienced this with my MIL.  She didn't get on at all with DH's first wife, either,  they were daggers drawn the whole marriage. DH is the eldest of 3 brothers and was very close to his mother after his father died when he was about 20.  I get the impression she finds any of her son's wives a threat, but especially my DH's.  We fell out with her badly 2 yrs ago and ended up going no contact. She tried to tell me I wasn't allowed an opinion on a family matter since I wasn't part of the family, although I'd been with DH for 16 yrs at that point!   Since then she has friended NPD BM on Facebook and "likes" and comments on all her posts. Trying to prove she doesn't have a thing about DH's wives, I think.  

SeeYouNever's picture

I have to admit I acted this way with my brother's now wife. She would have probably said I was jealous but I just thought she wasn't good enough for him. I eventually left it alone because he chose to stay with her so whatever. I still don't think she's good enough for him but I leave it all alone.

SacrificialLamb's picture

I have two middle-aged SD's. They were young when OSD was labelled the pretty one and YSD was labelled the smart one.

I hate labels; I think they limit people. These two sisters were told "this is what you are" and instead of thinking of personal growth.  They still are thinking of ways to outshine each other. Who has a nicer car, whose purse is more expensive, who is aging faster, who is skinnier. Constantly. Given that BM needs constant attention, the apple did not fall far from the tree. 

They are in competition with dad's new SO, but when we are not around they still have other competitions going on. It's pretty sad, really, to need that level of external validation.

I think there is a biological component - thousands of years ago the males hunted and women stayed in the village. Women had to be strategic about getting what they wanted, including attracting a mate, trying to outshine the other women. 

I guess some women of today haven't evolved or done the introspection of "do I feel better being superior to someone else? Does this really make me happy?"

Movingonisbest's picture

Iamwoman you said many women simply can't tolerate a female who is more beautiful, more intelligent, more kind, or more successful than themselves." I was all of those things compared to these women that behaved like that. I just couldn't understand why a female family member or female family members behaved like that. It would seem if they loved and cared about their father, brother, son (whatever the relationship) they would be happy he had a quality woman.

 

You also said "Exclusion, hostility, blame, accusations, manipulation, etc... it all has more to do with what's wrong with the attacker versus what's wrong with the target." It helps to look at it that way. I remember when my ex's daughter had that tantrum I told him she behaved like a dog with no home training. Acting like a fool because she doesn't want to work and take care of herself. It made me look at my relatives that are around her age or younger. The ones who are in college don't behave like that. All have or are putting themselves through school (scholarships, loans, work, etc.) and none of them behave that way. They look up to and even seek advice from those of us who already have degrees and careers. They would never consider being disrespectful to one of us. They are actually progressing and succeeding, even through this corona virus situation. So in my ex's case his adult kids, but especially his youngest daughter's behavior was something I had never seen before. Her level of disrespect was atrocious. His youngest daughter was failing miserably in life, and unfortunately taking it out on others (especially her dad and then disrespecting our relationship) instead of looking within. I definitely wasn't going to let her make her problems my problems.

Movingonisbest's picture

Iamwoman, I eventually learned it is actually the other women. I didn't let them make their problems my problems because I viciously stood up for myself. Wasn't tolerating any bullying going on over here. But it's just that negative energy isn't anything I want around me. And when it came to my ex's daughter, I never thought I would have to tell a parent what a loser their adult kid is. However, she just seemed to be pushing and pushing until she had that atrocious tantrum. I said to him and said you really expect her to graduate from college and become a professional? Who the heck do you think is going to hire her if she does finish college? Of course he didn't respond. I said she shows no transcripts, class schedules, or anything. I told him what her sh--ty attitude tells me is that she is failing. No brainer that she doesn't even have a potential graduation date in sight. Smh.

strugglingSM's picture

BM used to do this. When I met DH, she was regularly doing things that would require him to drop everything and do what she wanted. As soon as we moved in together, she would regularly call him at the last minute and ask him to do xyz or take the kids immediately. As soon as he started saying "I'll have to ask struggling" she would tell him he was a deadbeat dad who didn't care about his kids, but as he held fast to that boundary, she eventually stopped. For her, it was a control issue. She liked being the person from their relationship who had remarried and could control him because it made her feel superior. It was also a way to stay relevant in his life.

MIL also does this to a degree. She also tries to constantly have secrets with DH or things that are just between them, which I find really weird. What she doesn't know is that DH tells me everything and even puts her on speaker phone for their most tense conversations. I think she is actually a bit of a narcissist, so this is her way to stay relevant. When DH was 24, she told him that he better get married or he'd end up like his "loser" bachelor uncle. DH ran out and married the first person he dated after getting MIL's "advice", leading to 10 years of misery with BM. After DH got divorced, he ended up living with MIL at first and taking care of her, like the "loser" bachelor uncle. I think MIL liked that, despite her proclaiming that, that uncle was a "loser". DH tells me all the time that he thinks his mother was upset when he finally had another serious relationship because she lost out on her companion (DH) and caretaker. She still acts like a hurt child around him, always complaining that he doesn't come around enough, doesn't pay her enough attention, and doesn't do enough for her. This is despite the fact that DH's brother and sister don't pay much attention to her, either. For some reason, DH is the one who is supposed to cater to her. Again, it's about control and relevance for her. She complains all the time that she is alone and lonely, but when her kids are around, she is pushy, doesn't respect their boundaries, or in DH's case, criticizes them, so they avoid her. DH loves to call my mother, because she's friendly, positive, and doesn't treat him like a child, so he feels good after talking to her, as opposed to feeling bad, drained, or taken advantage of, like he does after talking to MIL. If I ever really wanted to get at MIL, I could tell her that DH calls my mother multiple times a week, even when I'm not around. He rarely calls MIL and usually tries to avoid talking to her when she calls.