Isn't PAS more a by-product of the adult's behavior than the child's, though?

You are under the assumption that a kid just needs more TIME? When the other parent is the one turning the child against the other parent? I don't understand your reasoning. How much time do you think is needed? Enough time until the kid has no relationship with the other parent at all?

We are looking at 6 years and counting, and I can promise you,more TIME is not the answer.

Also, there are a lot of syndromes that are not genetically based or hereditary. That basis alone does not determine whether something is a valid disorder or not.

We have 3 boys and the oldest is my step son. We've been through this alienation process, and have read a lot on it. Only a parent who is a narcisist, can hurt their child in this manner and not feel bad. Trust me, even when told they are hurting their child by not letting them visit with visiting family cause its not our week, is only going to hurt the child! In so many ways she uses her boy to hurt others. He has told us for 3 months, he didn't want to visit with us anymore and only wanted to live with his BM. About 3 months, and only 1 visit each month, we were able to see that he wasn't doing it out of Love for his mother, but out of fear from her. Not that she would hurt him physically, but her feelings. Our boy is 9, and he feels he has to take care of his mother. The last visit with us, he came clean and told us that after his father punished him, his mother convinced him to stay there till his BF was over it so he can get out of the grounding to follow.
A long and hard lesson, did he learn, when he didn't get to see his OTHER family for 3 months. I'm the step mother and when he wants to open up, its always to me. I think I'm the only one completely honest, and will listen when he has something to say, AND his feelings are what matters most! He said that when he tells his mom he wants to visit, she makes him feel bad, and tries to convince him his father is bad and not good for him. I explained, the only reason we let you stay away is cause YOU said you wanted to. If you don't then we will go get you. Long story shorter, I told him that if his mother tells him he has to choose again, to tell her, HE DOES NOT WANT TO CHOOSE, AND IF SHE WANTS DIFFERENT CUSTODY, TO TALK TO HIS FATHER ABOUT IT! Like I said, I'm completely honest and told him, they aren't suppose to even ask him to choose, Judges, don't even bother asking a child till at least 13. Unless the child's welfare is in danger, they don't care what the child wants.
Our boy told us, if we have to go get him with the police, he wants to come back. Cops were called but we got our boy back without bringing them. Our 9 yr old realized that his parents are there for a reason. To make decisions to protect him, not to let him make the decisions, that cause him pain in the future. Wish his mother would see the pain she causes him, but studies say, you cannot reason with a Narcisist, and I concur! It is so obvious that her actions will hurt him, but she never chooses the right thing. From telling him to steel, to making fun of other kids along with him. We are Christian, and I cannot or will not say anything bad to him about his mother, but what can I do to save him from all the pain he suffers?
He loves me dearly, and mostly cuddles with me on the couch, or hanging on my arms, like the rest of my boys. I know he loves me, but often when his mother is mad, she says he hates me and doesn't want to come home cause of me! We all know different, and usually when he gets back after one of these excursions, first person he comes to see is ME, with eyes full of tears, and he says he's sorry. Then tells his mother doesn't like me and he's trying to make her happy, but he always feels terrible after the things she makes him do. I did confront her about calling the child names, and telling her boy to call her names also, and she called her own son a lyer, so I asked the child who was being called names, and she also said the mother was as well! As soon as our boy realized it wasn't okay, to call anyone names, even if an adult says its okay, his poor little eyes filled with tears immediately and wanted to call and apologize. I still never told him his mother didn't stick up for him and called him a lyer, cause that would kill him. I'm the step parent, suppose to be the Evil Step Mother, but the only Evil one in his life, is his own blood mother, who carried him for 9 months. How can a mother be so cruel to her own child?

She also stalks my facebook, myspace, etc. Adds my friends, then trash talks me! Even went in her boys account and made mean comments, and blamed him for it, but he doesn't know how to post comments, or even check his messages, so I knew it wasn't him. She cannot let go of her ex husband, and tries to control him, or she will keep her son away to punish him. We finally got an attorney, so it won't happen again. Also opened his child support mail for almost 4 years before she called us to let us know he was going to lose his license if he doesn't pay. Come to find out, we forgot to tell child support we were married and they had 2 years of charges, we didn't know about. I could go on and on forever, but you wouldn't believe it unless you saw it with your own eyes. He visited my mother in law for a month, and 3 days into his visit, his mom called him complaining he didn't call, but he did all three days, and could not leave a message cause they were full, and left him crying on the phone while on vacation. The year before called to tell him they were putting their dog down, so he cried for two days, then never even did, the dog was fine. Also tells him his 4 yr old brother doesn't eat when he's at our house, cause he misses him, and when he went on vacation to his grandmothers like he does every summer, he balled cause he thought his baby brother was gonna starve to death!
Sorry its a lot to take in. I'm open for ANY ideas on how to get rid of my fan club (stalker), or if there may be someone with experience, does this even sound like a fit mother. We are planning on fighting for full custody, but still let him see her, as any child Loves is bio parent, it is given at birth, and not something that has to be earned, so I've learned!

It sounds to me like you are dealing with a lot of kids with ADD diagnoses, and your frustrations in dealing with those issues.
PAS is quite different. You really aren't going to see a lot of acting out in these kids in a school, the bad behavior is directed at the other parent.

These kids don't mend these relationships on their own, or if so, very rarely. How would you like it if someone came and took your child and spent YEARS turning that child against you? Would you be willing to wait 18 years for it to "work itself out?"

Also, the reason for the medical diagnosis, I believe, is to have it recongnzed by the court system so it can force a judge's hand to DO something about these kids being damaged this way.

ImaSmom,

PAS does NOT fit the profile of the others. I don't think ANYONE suggests medicating for PAS. It is something completely different from the other 'syndromes'.

I agree with you about bad behaviour being excused as one of the multitude of new 'syndromes' and the over medication of children.

I think most of these 'syndromes' are the result of bad parenting.

I know a woman, the mother of 4 children. She doesn't 'do' discipline at all. All 4 of her kids are ADHD and she swears it must be hereditary. I asked her what the symptoms were, how she knew something was wrong. Among other things she mentioned how they'd jump up and down on the sofa even late at night, how they ran around the house shouting, how they didn't 'listen', how they interrupt, can't concentrate, etc. Thing is...she never disciplines them. She gives in to everything they want. She never taught them basic manners. They watch as much TV as they want as late as they want and...here's the killer...she lets them have chocolate and sugared candies and coke or dr. pepper ALL THE TIME - yet she wonders why they are hyperactive? Rather than face that she's making HUGE mistakes and own her failure to effectively parent being the cause of their unruliness, she prefers to have them labeled and medicated.

Now I'm not saying that there aren't children out there who REALLY have ADHD and who need the medication. I'm just talking about this one parent.

Alienating a parent is when one parent trash talks the other until the child hates the parent, whether there be a reason to or not. Making the child decide not to want to live with the other parent anymore.
Trust me, my step son went through it for 3 months, we let him stay with his mother, just to find out that it was a game he was playing with him, and his own mother made him feel like he was hurting her if he went to visit with his father, step mother, and 3 brothers. The reason why children are not given a choice where to live. Parents are suppose to be adults and protect their children from being hurt and make decisions for them. My step son was 9 when this all happened, and he now tells his mother, I do not want to decide, if you want to change custody, talk to my dad!
Its not a syndrome of the child, but of the parent, cause what parent in their RIGHT MIND, can cause pain to their children for their own benefit. I hope it is a syndrome, so their is actually an excuse for their behavior, and would be nice if there were medication to help them.

Also, I know what you mean, with ADHD, my boy has it a little, but no drugs for him. A few more knocks upside the head growing up worked for him. Still a little more difficult than my other boys, but NO DRUGS to calm him down. Now my nephew is completely out of control. When he takes a pill, he sits quietly on the couch and doesn't even talk, so I'm still against it, but would be nice if they found an herbal medication or even blocking out sugar helps!

It's funny that most custodial BMs commit PAS whereas most custodial dads gloss over the sins of the NCP BMs.

Really? I'd sure like to see where that statistic comes from. That's crap.

Honestly? I don't give a crap what they call it at this point. Courts won't recognize it as a definite problem until they get a definition.

So if giving it a name and putting it in a book will get us some help, well then go right ahead. Maybe when you can label someone with it in a way the court system will recognize, then maybe they will start doing something about it.

God I agree, I'm so friggin sick of it...all these disorders, syndromes, labels...what the hell...if you check my blog you will see what I think abotu the term itself and who "coined" said "disorder".

Ailenation exists, and it's wrong. Shoot it exists between married couples and their own biokids. You can't however legislate/diagnose morals, ethics, behavior and parenting.

I agree with that also-but for some reason, the courts don't see it that way. Or very few of them do.

It is obvious you have some agenda here. I have read your previous posts, and you are talking about medicating kids, they need more time, etc. What gives? Have you been locked up too long in a room full of ADD labelled 5 year olds?

You are all over the place with your examples. Why would you medicate a kid who has been PAS'ed? :?

I am glad I don't have a kid that has been diagnosed with ADD. I would be super pissed right now that someone who doesn't even know me wants to make blanket statements about what they consider kids need and don't need.

Or....how about a label/disorder for kids from divorced homes? That'll be helpful. I'm SO with you here...it's not that bad parenting, alienation and crappy decisions aren't made...but what is up w/the labeling of everything. I mean...we now have "SLEEP SHIFT DISORDER"...wth??

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