Lawyer Frustrations Again....
I have emailed our attorney with very little feedback. It is getting old.
Has anyone ever subpoenaed someone to the stand for a custody hearing? Both of BM's other baby-daddy's are willing to testify for us. The 1st one (his daughter is 19) has been alienated to the point where she only calls her father the "sperm donor" and refuses to speak with him. He desperately tried to be in her life but after BM married my DH and they moved out of state he had to give up the fight. She was around 8 at that time. He was still pretty young (around 27) and didn't have the funds to keep going. He never stopped trying to reach her but BM blocked it at every turn. Of course the girl just sees him as a deadbeat.
The other dad's son is 17 and he has custody. He has all kinds of info that would help our case. Alienation tactics used on the daughter that he witnessed including BM telling him that she wanted him to be the girls dad and wanted girls dad to go away. Proof that BM was lying about all of his medical history in attempts to get my SS14 diagnosed with various illnesses. However, he wants us to subpoena him since he still has to deal with BM.
I just want our lawyer to let us know if that is the road we are going to take and if it is, we need to do this NOW. Court is in 27 days.
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What does your lawyer say?
What does your lawyer say? Honestly... he will be the one who needs to decide if this will be helpful. But you do realize that bm already has pushed another ex out of her child's life right. Unfortunately I dont think you will have much success since the 14 yo will certainly side with mom...and has clearly indicated he is not interested in his dad right now.
Interesting, my DH
Interesting, my DH inadvertantly helped BM alienate her older daughter too. He didn't realize it until it started happening with SS. And she also has a son who was raised by the father and is not alienated from either one.
I'd advise Baby Daddy #1 to find a way to reach his daughter now and try again. But I agree with ESMOD, your SS is going to side with, and lie for, BM. Unless this judge is really alienation savvy, it will be hard to get anything done.
I wonder if subpeonaing BM's
I wonder if subpeonaing BM's DD19 would be helpful, let the judge hear her spew about what a worthless SOB her dad is too.
Then the lawyer can give the judge the common denominator speech.
"Both of BM's other baby
"Both of BM's other baby-daddy's are willing to testify for us."
Sounds like this is turning into the Jerry Springer Show.
That is what it is for sure!!
That is what it is for sure!! I don't know what else to call the guys. She had one in high school, married the other and he left her. Then DH married her and she left him. Thankfully she had a hysterectomy while they were married or I am sure we would be on baby-daddy #4!
Is this idea coming from your
Is this idea coming from your husband's lawyer.. or is this something that you and/or your DH think would "help your case"? TBH, I am not so certain how much weight a judge will give or how much patience they will have for bringing up witnesses that can only result in he said/she said types of testimony.
I mean, sure, the former husband can claim that BM alienated his daughter.. but in the end, who has proof of his attempts to BE a father.. or whether he did fulfill his financial obligations etc.. Other than his claims.. how can anyone prove that BM actually created this alienation.
Because, honestly.. just because it might seem like the two situations are possibly related.. in reality, I'm not sure a judge will really give that much weight. They are much more likely to look at the actual facts and situations relating to your DH and his EX.. and the child. I doubt they will be all that interested in BM's alienation history. Because.. maybe the estrangement was for other legit reasons?
The judge is going to give a LOT more weight to things like:
The kid's current state of being... is he doing well in school.. any behavior issues..
any risks in BM's home.
Experiences while at his fathers.. is he properly supervised? Has DH or any other adult in the home done anything to make the child feel unsafe or neglected?
They will likely look at (recent) history of times when DH may not have had his life together so to speak as well.
In any case, these other witnesses can only offer ancedotal stories.. that can't be substantiated in fact. The judge wants to rule on facts. Our legal system is also under a lot of courseload weight. These witnesses aren't likely to bring forth any usable information for them.
So.. I think the best thing for your DH to do is to ask his lawyer what HIS or HER gameplan is for the case.. Then be prepared to support that effort.. and listen to the lawyer's prognosis.. what do THEY think is a likely outcome?
That is why we aren't sure.
That is why we aren't sure. Can the eldest’s father testify that he was cut out of her life. - Yes.
Can the next ones father testify that he does not have any of the diseases that she claimed he does in SS14's records to prove she is lying- yes. Can he also state that BM told him that she was cutting the 1st dad out of her daughter's life- yes.
Can DH then say that BM wanted HIM to be daddy to those 2 kids because they both left her. He was told that the 1st one wanted nothing to do with his daughter and the 2nd was a physical abuser. - Yes
Can conclusions then be brought that BM just "find new dad's" for her kids in every relationship??? There is a serious pattern of lying. Like the physical abuse from #2 that didn't happen, her accusations of substance abuse on DH. She lies and cheats and does whatever she can to financially bleed these men dry. Standing united- showing what a POS she is has to mean something to a judge!
I am probably crazy at this point. I don’t know....
"That is why we aren't sure.
"That is why we aren't sure. Can the eldest’s father testify that he was cut out of her life. - Yes" This is his "claim".. it isn't a fact. This is his opinion or conclusion.. I'm sure BM has another side of the story more than ready to tell.. and her child would certainly back up her mom's side of things.
Re the 2nd one and "diseases".. This again can be very subjective... she can claim she didn't understand the Dr's explanations and when he said "might have" she took it as "did have".. or some of these things might have been passing diagnosis etc... the 2nd BD is not a medical professional.. his opinion on what the kid does and doesn't have? worth nothing.
"Can DH then say that BM wanted HIM to be daddy to those 2 kids because they both left her. He was told that the 1st one wanted nothing to do with his daughter and the 2nd was a physical abuser. - Yes." Again probably not.. this is not really a fact unless your DH has literall proof that this is what she told him. And your DH's interpretation of BM's motives will certainly be called into question because he is fighting her. In fact, perhaps her Exes were those things to an extent? These are the kind of things that end up being a lot of static to the judge.. and really won't lead to any help.
And finally, nope.l you can't bring "conclusions" to court. You bring facts and the judge draws conclusions and makes a decision.
Again, is this your thought that you can bring these people forward to somehow prove your alienation case because she supposedly acted similarly in the past? Is this YOU or is it your LAWYER who thinks this is a good idea? I am guessing that it's not your lawyer. You can certainly tell your lawyer about these people... but I doubt that they will be all that interested in hauling them into court to muddy the waters further. You never know when the judge might actually get mad at your DH's atty for "wasting time" etc.. and have THAT go AGAINST him.
I know you think it would be logical for you to pull in these other Exes who have axes to grind.. but in reality.. they probably are not going to do anything to help. I mean.. for all you know THEY are lying about the situation right?
This is DH's and my idea. If
This is DH's and my idea. If it isn't a good one, I just wish the lawyer would say that it could cause more harm than good.
As for the medical- if BM is a Nurse (she still claims to the doctors that she is one and still has a license in that state) and is STILL not understanding that SS's brother doesn't have any of the illnesses that she claims... I mean.... I dont know what to say to that.
I guess that's my point.
I guess that's my point. Your DH's lawyer should be responsive to your suggestion and say... "yes that would be good.. who do we need to bring in?" or "No, that might do more harm than good"... I AM assuming your DH is paying this guy right? So.. perhaps you need to figure out a way to get your suggestions in his hands. are you not able to get in touch with him? Also, keep in mind your DH's bill goes up every time your lawyer fields a call or a question.. Not saying to not contact him.. but in the end. it does add to the bill. I don't understand why your lawyer hasn't gotten back other than he doesn't think it's worthwhile pursuing. If he thought something like this might be useful.. I don't know why he wouldn't have asked you about it before. He has experience with these cases right?
Being subpoenaed isn't a big
Being subpoenaed isn't a big deal. I know I was given one in exH court trial. Made getting off of work a lot easier. Your attorney fills it out and files with the court. If you are on good terms with ex, it shouldn't be an issue, usually serving someone is the difficult thing.
You seem very stressed about the whole thing. The one thing most of us learned is that Family court moves in its own time frame. Do your best to relax.
OP I can not stress to you
OP I can not stress to you enough that custody is very VERY difficult to change UNLESS child has been removed from home by cps..AND OR/ bm is in the clinker OR mental health professionals have provided enough facts to your Judge that bm is activly engaged in Pathogenic Parenting. If I am correct that is what the claims are against BM, correct? "Parental Alienation"
I know I have suggested Dr. Childress to you before...but here it is again.
Dr. Craig Childress provides PDF letters of introduction for your lawyer and any mental health providers you may be involved with. HE will consult free with your lawyer IF your attorney contacts him,,all you have to do is print them out and hand them to your lawyer... here is it for your records.
http://www.drcachildress.org/
SS will not testify bm is doing anything inappropriate that is causing conflict in his and dads relationship. I will put 10bucks down that ss may say MOM wants us to have a relationship but I (SS) just cant...he may report SHE is all wonderful and very supportive. SS may also report this is all him and does not have anything to do with BM...He may also resport---I dont know why but I just dont feeeeel right at dads house, I feeeeel better with my mom .
GoodLuck...hope court works out the way you want it to.
Subpoenas are tricky...depending on cross from BM's lawyer it could blow up and strengthen bm's position.
Not to be a jerk---for goodness sake this boy is 14. YOU NEED mental health involved trained in child psychology. All that your efforts is doing is churning this case$$$$$$$$$$$$ and everything is still the same if not worse.
Have your lawyer contact Dr Childress--it's free. Its like this: You cant board a cruise without a reservation right? You cant use effectivly use "Parental Alienation" without mental health professionals support in your case.
JMO
I didn't know that we could
I didn't know that we could contact him. I absolutely will tell our lawyer to!
The psychologist here told us that SS would have to move here for any amount of counseling to be effective. Maybe a letter from him as well.
I am hoping that the GAL being on our side along with the obvious light switch that happened will make a judge see the duck for a duck- but who knows!
IS bm ordered to take ss to
IS bm ordered to take ss to counseling in her home town? IF not, why not.
"counseling" is the standard recommendation usually by one side or both. Especially a well trained GAL....
Well, goodluck
BM did have him in counseling
BM did have him in counseling and then blocked the GAL from the reports. The GAL was PISSED, the counselor refused to let DH sign approval to speak to the GAL. It is all a mess.
A GAL is court appointed. You
A GAL is court appointed. You have seen or have a copy of this Judged sign appointment, yes?
Thus has full access to everything about the child. All GAL had to do was walk in OR call OR fax court order of appointment to the case.. to therapist and BOOM GAL would have been talking with counselor. Albeit, may be limited in scop of conversation but GAL can talk to anyone they want to.
Matter of fact GAL can appear in front of Judge IF anyone interferes with their duty to the child.
Remember the GAL is not working for you---GAL is only working for the child.
You are absolutely correct.
You are absolutely correct. However, BM expressly stated that she did not want the counselor to speak to the GAL. Therefore the counselor invoked Dr./ Patient confidentiality and would only tell the GAL that he was a patient and that was it.
The GAL is going in front of the judge to point out all the interference as well as his opinion that SS should come to live with us at once. He does not believe that BM has any parental control or that BM has SS's interests at heart.