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So who thinks we should pay the rv payments back to inlaws?

hismineandours's picture

Just out of curiousity. Dh and I are having a debate.

So the initial arrangement is that they were going to pay our camper payments for 6 months and store it over there on family land (it was not even actually their property that it was stored on). Never was it mentioned or described as a loan. In the meantime, if they felt the need to use it for a trip or whatnot they would have the freedom to do that. Let me also say this is the only time in our whole 13 year marriage that they have ever helped us financially or in anyway really. We do not borrow money as a practice, but were simply in a bit of a bind as dh was not bringing in an income while waiting for his va paymetns to be approved. We have helped that entire family many times-dh's sibs, and his parents have come to us regularly for loans. Sil owes us thousands of dollars in unpaid loans (Im not talking about the credit card stuff this is separate). In addition, we have purchased things for my inlaws, given them things, helped them with any sort of thing they needed. They have never actually babysat my children ever, they dont spend time with them, they dont buy gifts for dh or I and havent for the kids in years. We have hosted them for every xmas, dinners,etc. Not that any of this matters-just didnt want you to get the idea that there is some sort of pattern that we are always having my inlaws do things or help us-because really this is the one time ever.

This all happened from November 2010-May 2011. They never actually made the 6 payments,but the best we can recollect is 3. I received late notices on them and went ahead and paid them. we have submitted a request to our bank to get records which cost us 15.00 They were unwilling to resesarch their records to let us know how much was paid. It cost us 200.00 to retrieve the rv. Initially fil was to return the rv to us when dh returned from the military (may 2011)but he never felt like is and then dh and fil had the falling out in July of 2012. Dh asked a number of times for him to return it. When dh first mentioned to mil that he had plans to retrieve it and had found someone to do it-she gave him the runaround essentially and said he'd have to talk to fil. Fil called him the next day and told dh that he would not allow us to get it until we paid 6 payments (despite the fact that they did nto make 6 payments)and that he in fact had spoke to an attorney that said they could keep it since it was considered abandoned. (strange considering it was never actually on his land). Dh then called mil again and she said she did not care about any money but that it was fil. Dh offered to pay one payment right away and then pay whatever they actually paid in monthly payments. She said again hed have to talk to fil. We had to wait another day until fil was willing to speak to dh and to which he essentially turned down dh's offer. He then told dh he do some more thinking and let us know. We waited another two days-at this point we are approaching one week that this negotiations have gone on. The guy that was moving it for us was going out of town the following week and wouldnt be back until July so we needed to move on it right away. So that's why dh finally made his own arrangements with his grandfather.

So we got the messages pouring in from fil after he found out that dh went and got it. Telling him he should be ashamed, he's not a man, blah, blah, and we need to pay whatever he says we need to pay. These "ashamed" and not a man comments are the ones he trots out EVERY time he leaves a nasty message which he manages to do probably on a monthly basis since they stopped talking almost a year ago. Dh would like to go ahead and pay it so as not to be indebted to this asshat for anything. I get his point, I do, but am just having issues with it.

First of all we dont actually owe this money. This was not a loan. If it was then we would have already paid it back. We are not in the practice of borrowing from anyone. Second of all we offered to actually pay them back the monies they spent and it was turned down. Third, since fil didnt live up to his verbal agreement-we had to pay 200.00 to move the thing. Fourth, my fil deserves nothing but a kick in the balls for being such a freaking asshole-trying to hold our rv hostage and demand money from us! Fifth, this is not about the money-mil already said she didnt want it-she is the one who paid the payments out of her paycheck-not fil-he does not even have a really job but rather is a craftsman of sorts who occassioanlly sells his work. If it was about the money-the offer to pay back everything they paid would have been gladly accepted and no issues, right? no, it is just the latest thing to beat dh over the head with-even if it is paid-fil will still walk around and call dh an asshole saying it took him over 2 years to pay them back and he didnt even pay it all-then he will find a new issue to call dh about and harass him. I feel like by giving into his demands we are setting ourselves up for further demands down the road.

One added note-this camper is in MY name and my name only. My dh definitely does not owe fil anything since its not even his damned rv, techinically.



PeanutandSons's picture

I would ignore fil entirely and just deal with mil. Its your rv and she's is the one who paid it. Leave dh and fil out of the discussion.

Figure out exactly how much mil paid towards the rv, deduct the $200 moving fee from that and write her a check. Tell her its up to her whether to cash it or not.

hismineandours's picture

Mil would not speak to me. She has not spoken to me in well over a year. I occassionally see her at her workplace-where I also go for work purposes and she "hides" from me. I feel like if I got her on the phone it would be a straight up guarantee that I'd be hung up on and then I definitely wouldnt feel like paying a dime!

tryingmom's picture

You have the RV in your possession? If so, I wouldn't pay anything to that asshat. Just because he says so, doesn't make it so. Get your proof of payments in order in case he tries to file a claim in legal court (not sure if it is small claims, etc). He is just a bossy britches old man who wants your DH to cowtow to him. Enough is enough. Your DH is a man, and doesn't need Daddy's approval of being a man. Lord, I feel for you all. I divorced a man whose family is just like this, bullying lord of the mansion!!

just.his.wife's picture

Hell no.

purpledaisies's picture

Nope. If they want it bad enough let them Sue you then they have to prove they paid it. And prove it was a loan.

hismineandours's picture

So what if THEY can't prove they paid anything? I'm not saying they didnt-but I just found it a bit ridiculous that fil was demanding payment, but unwilling to give us a figure other than "the total amount". when dh encouraged fil to determine the amount he felt we actually owed he told dh they were too busy to find out that information.

misSTEP's picture

I would not pay it. Like you said, it is not going to "smooth things over."

The only way to stop a bully is to stand up to them.

Journey1982's picture

How did it come about that your in-laws knew you needed financial help making the RV payments? You must have contacted them requesting help paying the payments – correct? During this conversation, did they say they would “give you” the money or did they say they would “loan” you the money? If they had not helped you, the RV would have been repo’ed – Correct? You also said that when you got the late payment notice you just went ahead and paid it. If you had the money, why didn’t you just make the payments yourself?

I think you owe money. How much? I don’t know. You should have your own records of what you paid during the 6 month time period. I would pay them back for only the payments you could prove they made. Don't you have proof of what you paid during this time period?

Why didn’t your DH go and get the RV instead of complaining that FIL wouldn’t bring it to him? Wouldn’t it have cost FIL something to bring it to you?

hismineandours's picture

At the time we needed help with the rv-my dh still had a relationship with his parents. I did not contact anyone regarding help with the payments. I assume my dh had a discussion with them at one point stating that we were thinking of selling it due to financial constraints-at this point they offered to pay it during this period where he'd be recieiving a reduced salary. No mention was ever made of "loan". They were also offered the use of the rv during this 6 month period. Did they take advantage of that? I honestly have no idea. No the rv would not have been repo'd-we would have either sold it or found a way to make the payments-which is what I did on the payments i made. did the kids and I eat alot of macaroni and cheese those months? Yep. That was fine. I didnt talk to them at all during this period so I never knew whether they just forgot to make the payment, didnt have the money, or just didnt want to make it-so I just did it.

I did not retain proof of payment. I didnt know that I would need receipts of when I paid my own rv payment at some point. The bank has cancelled checks on microfilm which we have already requested.

We could not get the rv as we no longer have a truck. My dh no longer drives due to injuries sustained in Iraq. He could not go get it which my fil was aware of. It would not have cost my fil anything to return it-he simply would have hooked it to his truck and drove it the 15 minutes over to our house. It is a 5th wheel, so you cant just hook it up to any truck-it has to have a hitch in the back. Hence, the difficulty with us finding someone to get it for us. When we found someone, we wanted to jump on it immediately.

hismineandours's picture

I dont have a debt to mil though. That's my point. If someone gives you a gift, then 2 years later asks you to pay for it-do you really do that? I never even had a discussion with either of my inlaws about my rv.

We have given them some expensive things over the years-in fact my fil has some priceless items from Iraq of dh's that he wanted to "hold onto" for awhile and show his buddies. We know we will never get them back. They werent even a gift. They were a "loan". But we know we cant make him give them back, so whatever we are taking it as a loss.

And yes of course we have cancelled checks from the bank-however i do not save cancelled checks at my home for more than 2 years-if you do more power to you-but I do not. Hence, the reason we contacted the bank and will be paying money for them to print those records.

My mil has already stated that she does not wish to be paid any money. She does not feel there is a debt owed. So if you are suggesting I go by what my mil said, then problem solved.

Journey1982's picture

I totally agree with you RAI. If there was no mention of a "loan" I doubt there was any mention of a "gift". When people don't want to repay a loan from a friend or family member, the first thing they claim is that it was a gift.

hismineandours's picture

Dh and I have borrowed money once in our entire lives. Once we borrowed 400 from my parents. They told us that they were going to LOAN it to us and they would like us to make monthly payments and the amount they would like us to pay. We paid those monthly payments for a few months, got back on our feet and then paid the rest in a lump sum. That is a LOAN.

My mil told my dh that she was going to make these payments for him and that he, very specifically did not need to pay her back, but that she wanted to help him because she knew HE wanted to keep the camper. She reiterated this just last week when she said she did not want any money repaid to her-she did not feel we owed her anything and as far as she was concerned dh could come get the camper when he liked. When my fil found out that she said that, I guess he had a cow and started talking about how the camper was really his since we abandoned it. I guess when he realized how ridiculous that was, he backed off and just said we needed to pay, up front, 6 payments that were made for us. When dh offered to pay the payments that they actually made in monthly sums-he said NO.

I keep saying this is not a loan because, gee, it really was not a loan. No one involved here is even trying to say it was a loan. My dh wants to pay them off just so they will leave us alone-alas he is foolish because my fil will not leave us alone even if we gave him a 100 payments. My dh knows it was not a loan, my mil knows it was not a loan, I know it was not a loan, and even my crazy fil has not said it was a loan.

Dh and I were talking about paying them this money simply as we want NO ties with them whatsoever-not because we thougt it was a loan. If it were a loan, if my mil came back and said, hey I really meant it to be a loan, I guess we'd just pay her-but she is not saying that. Why is she not saying that? because she knows it wasnt a loan.

But thanks, kind ladies, for trying to imply that I am trying to squelch on a LOAN. Never have done so and never will.

hismineandours's picture

I guess because my mil told my dh that he did not have to repay it. She told him then and she just told him again last week? That's why I'd be assuming that the payments were a gift? duh. What part is not getting through to you ladies? I guess I could get it in writing that these payments were a gift, but why would I care to even do that?

They are not going to pursue this legally, because there is nothing to pursue. This was not a loan. No terms of a loan were discussed, no one involved in this situation ever thought it was a loan. No one thinks it was a loan now. Fil just wanted to keep the rv on the property because he knew dh wanted it back. Fil has not even said, "we loaned you this money, it's time you repay it". My fil recently told me that I had smoked lots of marijuana with him over the years. Um, no. I dont smoke marijuana period and if I was going to I sure wouldnt smoke it with someone that cant stand me? So he does indeed say and do a lot of dumb stuff-so just because the latest thing he is saying is that he wants dh to pay this doesnt mean we are going to do it? Next month, he may say that dh and I slaughtered his pink pet elephant and we need to reimburse him for that. The man is a drug dealing, child molesting addict.

Just because HE tells my dh that we need to pay him for 6 months of camper payments-doesnt mean that we actually owe him that. We owe him nothing. Period. As previously established. He, himself, didnt make any payments as, on paper, he is essentially unemployed. My mil made the payments. She is not asking for repayment, because it was not a loan.

I think you guys are missing the point.

hismineandours's picture

actually as I read some of these responses I am more sure than ever that I am not paying them anything. This was not a loan. Never mentioned as a loan. We never asked for a loan and we never asked them to help-they offered to make the payments for us during this 6 month period-in return they would get to use it whenever they liked. In addition, had I any idea that my fil would refuse to bring it back or try to block us from getting it-I certainly never would have accepted this "gift". I much rather would have ate mac and cheese for 6 months or just sold the damn thing. Dont get me wrong, dh and I were both properly thankful at the time-as we would have been of anyone's assistance. Have we given them assistance throughout the years? Of course-that's what I thought families did. I stupidly made the mistake of thinking these people were my family and even thinking they were dh's family. I guess we could tally up everything weve done for them over the years and now ask them to pay us back-but I think that's ridiculous. Just as I think they are being ridiculous.

The payments were made over two years ago. At no point, during those two years did anyone ever mention it again. If they offered us a loan, and we accepted, I would have paid it back. It's not a big deal in terms of cost.-we are talking maybe 600.00. I would never squelch on a loan-never have in my entire life so I wouldnt want to start now.

But if someone gives me something and then demands that i pay for it 2 years later when they get pissy at me then they can go eff themselves-thats a different story and that's whats happened here.

Journey1982's picture

This is your exact quote - "At the time we needed help with the rv-my dh still had a relationship with his parents". Now you are claiming that you never asked them to help? I'm back to my original question, if DH didn't ask for help, then how did your in-laws decide or know to make the payments?

Regardless if the payments were made 2 years ago, the debt was still incurred. But you have already made up your mind. I think there is more to this story then what you are telling.

hismineandours's picture

Wow. Noone ever went to them and said-hey mil and fil we need some help can you pay our camper payments. My dh was telling him that we were thinking of selling it and they asked why-and he said that money would be tight-that is when they offered to make the 6 payments. When they offered to help, my dh said ok.

What more do you think there could be to this story? No debt was incurred. If someone gives you a gift, regardless if it is cash or an actual item-do you consider that a debt that is incurred? If this was a loan-I would repay it. It was never a loan. My mil does not think it is a loan. She, herself, who actually made the payments is not seeking repayment. I dont even think my fil thinks it was ever a loan-he just wants something to pick on dh about and since the rv, in general, was brought to his attention when dh wanted to retrieve it-oh, hey heres something I can pick on. I am curious as to why YOU think it is a loan-considering pretty much all of the parties involved here agree that it was never meant to be a loan.

My fil is just mad because dh reported credit cards were opened in his name. Police investigated and arrested dh's sister. Fil feels that dh is personally responsible for sil going to jail. He wants to make him pay in general. We already offered to pay him this money. He refused. Because it is not about a loan that was made or any debt that was incurred-paying this money is not going to make anything "right" for anyone. Because it is not the issue.

Journey1982's picture

"At the time we needed help with the rv" Your exact words - not mine. Now you are saying "Noone ever went to them and said-hey mil and fil we need some help can you pay our camper payments" Then what did you mean when you said "At the time we needed help with the rv"

hismineandours's picture

Perhaps I misspoke when I said we specifically needed help with the rv. We were going through some financial issues in general-we did not specifically need help with the rv. Even if we had specificially needed help with the rv that still does not mean that we called up my inlaws and told them we needed some help with the rv. If you need help with something, do you call your inlaws every time and notify them? Again, Journey, I am not sure why you are trying to act like I am lying and saying we went to the inlaws and asked them for money-because no matter how many times you want to say that you think that's what happened-it doesnt make it true. I'm not sure why this is even an issue for you, unless perhaps you have some of your own unresolved issues.

We had a dry financial spell due to dh's injury. My dh communicated with his parents on a regular basis. In the course of conversation, dh mentioned that we were thinking of selling our rv. Inlaws asked why. Dh reitierated to them that we were looking to have a rough 6 months financially. My mil offered to pay the 6 months. Dh told her that we could pay her back once he got income back and rolling in. My mil said no-that was not necessary that she wanted to help out. Based on that we proceeded forward with them moving our rv to the family property and giving them the payment book. My fil said he'd bring it back when dh got down with his service. We said they could use it whenever they liked. Dh came home. Our financial problems are over. Noone ever asked for "repayment" or said it was a loan. Until just 2 weeks ago. Because my fil is mad. He is angry with me for saying some things to him and he is angry at dh for sil getting in trouble for stealing from him. My mil is STILL saying that she does not want any money. That she does not feel we owe her anything.

Does that clear things up? I was really looking for some advice on here about whether we should pay it back even though it was not a loan. Not to debate whether it was a loan or a gift. I already know it was not a loan. I was trying to decide whether WE should GIFT them with whatever monies they paid just out of a desire to want no ties with them. You ve wasted all your time and mine replying with these comments about it really being a loan. Sorry, but it wasnt. Unfortunately you may have had some good advice to offer, but I was unable to listen to as I couldnt get past you continually trying to "prove" to me somthing I already know is not true. I'm not even sure why you would think you would know what really happened? Are you secretly my father in law?

hismineandours's picture

I am sleeping fine at night. I would sleep poorly if I allowed my father in law to bully us out of money we dont owe.

SadStep77's picture

Well, if you are sleeping fine and don't want to pay it, why are you posting the question? Your subconscious must be niggling you! Blum 3

Jsmom's picture

I would pay the three payments and that is it, then cut these people out of your life.

chocolatelover's picture

If you've helped them financially in the past for an amount equal to or greater than the 3 payments, then no.

hismineandours's picture

I wasnt trying to justify not paying my mil the money. I was trying to give a background and history and nature of the relationship. Which I then stated was not even pertinent-but only explained some of the back history so that everyone is clear that them helping us at all was a rare isolated event. I get what you are saying now about getting it in writing. I just didnt understand what you were saying.

I am not sure how mil and fil could possibly prove that it was a loan vs a gift? Again, not that I am worried that they will take it to court as I dont believe they ever would-they avoid the courts, legaly system, police like the plague. Even if they did take it to court I dont undersand why they would be awarded more than they paid?

My mil is actually a first class bitch. She, IMO, runs the whole show and it is rather my fil that falls into line. Which is also why I think this will never be taken to court. My mil just wont go along with it. I genuinely believe she is not interested in having the money back. She knows we dont owe her and just wants to drop the issue. It was HER decision to offer up the money, she is the one that wrote the checks, she is the one with 90 per cent of the income in the family, and SHE is the one saying she feels nothing is owed. My fil is just mad. Bottom line he is just pissy-not about the rv-but about other issues and this rv thing has just been a vehicle to try and make dh feel bad He has tried muliple other things over the last year to try and poke at dh-this is just the latest.

Seriously,I was never particularly concerned about this as a legal issue or identifying whether this was a loan or not but just getting opinoins on whether we should pay it back in an effort to try and have absolutely no ties with these people.