O/T Update and Confusion
Hey, my dear friends on StepTalk, subsequent to my post of 14 February, I received the following e-mail from my abusive relative. I’ve changed the wording of our names to ‘grannyd’ and ‘Mr. grannyd’.
Hey grannyd,
I have struggled with the words to come up with this past week, I am truly sorry to you and Mr. grannyd for everything I said and did. I feel awful about it.
I know you and Mr. grannyd just wanted a nice visit, you both set up a bed for me on short notice and you cooked a fantastic meal and did your best to show me hospitality. It was terrible for me to throw that love, kindness, and hospitality away. It was awful to yell and scream at Mr. grannyd and leave. I don't know what came over me and why I forgot that you and Mr. grannyd are elderly and I can't treat you like that, and I am very, very sorry
I really do love you grannyd, you are the best!
P.S., as a peace offering, I can produce up some piano playing and send it over. I also remember you and Mr. grannyd mentioning that you enjoy those YouTube documentaries. I happen to have access to YouTube premium, and if you send me the email address you use to sign in to YouTube, I can put you on my family premium list
I simply do not know how to respond to this plea. Mr. grannyd refuses to have my relative back in our home yet I love the young man unconditionally and am torn and tearful again. Damn! At my age, I just want to be left alone to enjoy my declining years in peace. Mr. grannyd and I find our happiness in feeding our 'critters'; birds, squirrels and chipmunks. Our squirrels and chippers are so tamed that they eat out of our hands; a delight that took us a couple of years to achieve.
Our love of nature and each other, our travels around the world, are what bring joy to our lives. Opening myself to more familial drama is simply more than I can endure right now yet I feel terrible guilt for ignoring this e-mail. I welcome your comments and advice. ♥️
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Comments
grannyd. as furious as I am over this asshat young person,
grannyd. as furious as I am over this asshat young person, your clear quality and example obviously gave this kid an inkling of brain activity likely amplified by his own parent(s) applying a firm foot to his idiot ass. Good for you and hopefully, good for his parents large steel toed foot to ass message delivering boots.
I understand both your position and Mr gd's.
Be kind to yourself and the two of you relish in the life and experiences you have created and are living together.
Thank you, Rags.
Thank you, Rags.
Your pragmatic comments made me smile and lightened my heavy heart.
His apology sounds sincere but....
His apology sounds sincere but did you ever figure out what set him off? Was he drinking?
He doesn't drink, JRI. What
He doesn't drink, JRI. What set him off was a political argument but his rage was way out of proportion to the issues being discussed.
I'm glad he apologized, it
I'm glad he apologized, it does seem to be sincere. It's lovely that you still care for his feelings, despite everything. It definitely shows that there is real affection there, which is part of the reason you were so hurt by his behavior.
I think you can reply and accept the apology while also acknowledging that repairing the damage that he did will take some time. If you're comfortable, you could suggest that you continue to communicate via email or text with an eye towards an in-person visit in the future, with the understanding that you can't commit to a timeline on that.
Yes ^^^
Proceed with caution. A change of behavior and patterns over time is the only apology necessary. I would take him up on his YouTube offer.
Your suggestion makes perfect
Your suggestion makes perfect sense, Felicity. Mr. grannyd refuses to have him in our home again so it will be awhile before an in-person visit would even be considered. My DH is very protective towards me and the name-calling that my relation spewed at me ended any regard that DH felt towards the young man. However, I feel like I can't ignore his e-mail.
I would say that if this
I would say that if this person has treated you this way in the past, numerous times, then made fullsome apologies like this, then keep the drawbridge up. If this is only very occasional that he behaves like this - then maybe give him another chance, but if he ever behaves like this again, then pull up the drawbridge and leave it up forever. I would be delighted if I got this kind of apology from SD30, but I don't think it will ever happen, so we will remain estranged.
The young man has a history
The young man has a history of very bad behaviour. When he was in his mid-teens, he threatened his mother to the degree that the police were summoned. He was also disruptive and bullying both in school and towards his younger sister. He's been terribly indulged all his life and, because he's tall, extraordinarily handsome and able to turn on the charm when it suits him, has managed to escape any grave consequences. He is also intelligent and well educated.
This is the first time that the young man has turned on either me or my DH (although he stole a sum of money from us when he was a teen). Years ago (he’s now 31), he deemed himself a psychopath and I’m beginning to agree with his self-diagnosis.
His behavior seems low
His behavior seems low functioning borderline personality disorder on the surface @grannyd.
...but reading below it sounds like there might be layers of problems and dysregulation. Be careful and yes, it's probably I good idea to keep this kid at arm's length. He sounds dangerous.
Oh wow, self proclaimed
Hmmm? I have to ask. Why do find this kid to be appealing?
Hmmm? I have to ask. Why do find this kid to be appealing? Historically speaking.
He was ill behaved, a bully, and a threat to his own mother. What about him made him dear to you?
Take care of yourself please.
I would move forward AND
I would move forward AND remain wary. I would not take him up on any of his offers of "giving" you anything because that can be thrown in your face later. "Well, look what I did to make things better, and . . . !"
"We accept your apology. At the same time, we cannot tolerate abusive behavior [call it what it is]. We hope you will explore what led you or leads you to behaving like that. Hopefully, as you explore this, you will make a sincere commitment to treating people better. Then, our relationship can move forward." Just my 2 cents.
People like this kid scare me.
I was scared, Mia! The young
I was scared, Mia! The young man was shouting very close to my (almost 80) DH’s face in a threatening manner. At 6 foot, 5 inches, my relative towers over DH, which made the confrontation all the more intimidating.
Your suggested wording of a possible response is well thought out but my relative was in therapy for years during his teens and he bragged about conning the psychiatrist into believing whatever my relative wanted him to believe. In the end, psychotherapy did nothing to change the young man’s behaviour. My younger daughter insists that my relative’s parents will eventually hit the newspapers via a fate akin to that of the Menendez family.
Scary stuff...I had a
Scary stuff...I had an odd unchecked gut feeling / experience with believing my SKIDs could fit ino the Menendez scenario when hunting for DH and Is' estate....yikes. That's not something to play around with.
Oh no, reading this and your
Oh no, reading this and your additional responses since this morning, I'm in the "stay away" corner now. Does he live nearby?
No, Mia, he lives about a 2
No, Mia, he lives about a 2-hour drive away and does not have a driver's licence. I only saw him once or twice a year at Chez grannyd; our relationship was mostly based on e-mail and phone calls. He has no real friends and, despite being ridiculously handsome, has had only 2 girlfriends so far. They both bailed after a short relationship, due to his explosive personality.
Shock. I would not engage with this toxic violent giant ever...
Shock. I would not engage with this toxic violent giant ever again. With the additional information on this educated young adult physically threatening and dominating your 80yo DH, nope. He is done.
He is lucky my 82yo USMC dad is not your DH. Dad would have dropped him in his is tracks with the handgun he keeps in a basket next to his usual seat in the family room.
I understand your heartbreak. However, this "person", and I use that designation only because I do not want to go overly ranty on him, has no place in the lives of anyone of quality.
That he is educated and has received significant investment by his parents getting him therapy and he is this.... nope. Way done and gone. IMHO. All of this makes him even more reprehensible.
Grieve and take care of yourself.
((((Hugs))))
I went back and read your
I went back and read your post about what he did again. I would not grace this letter with a response. I'd file it away somewhere and wait and see if there's a follow-up. No response is necessary at all.
If anyone behaved like he did in my home it would be the last time he'd set foot in my home. A few written words cannot undo the damage he has done.
Winterglow, you and my DH are
Winterglow, you and my DH are in complete agreement!
In your past post, you
In your past post, you mentioned that this relative is bipolar (or you have enough experiencial evidence to think it's likely). That could definitely explain both of these actions.. the high octane attack.. the lovebombing atonement.
In the end, I think you know that trying to maintain a close relationship with this person is just not in your best interest. I understand he is a relative that you may see at occasional family events, but I think that the days of opening your home to him, as you did recently are over.
I WOULD respond to the letter in a kind but grey chill kind of way.
My Dear Relation,
We appreciate the apology letter. We were quite upset by what transpired that night and hearing that you agree that it was inappropriate does make us feel better. Thank you for being brave enough to own your actions. While we appreciate the offer of the subscription access and music recordings, you do not owe us anything more than what you wrote.
All our best,
Granny D and hubs. (or however you think best signs it off)
Then, you simply don't put yourselves in a position like this again with him. You have effectively allowed him to think the hatchet is buried. So, you see him at a family event, you can be cordial.. but also busy catching up with Aunt Mabel and Cousin Jill. If the request comes for an overnight visit.. or one on one outing.. you can decline.. the guestroom is being fumigated.. You are preparing for a visit from some old friend.. you are in the middle of a craft project and can't make space in there. Or.. if you want to be overly truthful at that juncture you say. "Relative, I appreciate your interest in visiting. But, while we have forgiven your past actions and appreciate your apologies, we are not up to hosting in our home. As you said before, we are both elderly and it is just more than we can manage.. and we don't want to risk damaging our relationship if things were to take a turn as they did the last time."
I agree. A nice apology doesn
I agree. A nice apology doesn't erase the truly batsh!t crazy and cruel behavior. Something is wrong with this person. You can accept the apology without necessarily returning to your previous relationship. There are some things you just can't come back from.
My SO's relatives (a good handful of them) aren't as outright aggressive as your relative, but some have behaved in ways that ensure i will never open myself up to them again. Just bizarre, crazy stuff. How can you trust someone who acts like that again? Sure, you can want what's best for them. Hope for their happiness and success, encourage them to get the help they need. But open your home to them? That's a no from me.
Came back to add it's
Came back to add it's probably much harder when it's *your* relative. Sort of like the parent feels when a stepparent doesn't want to forgive a skid. You remember them as the cute kid they once were. Your husband may not remember. Maybe you can have a relationship with them away from your DH.
It's very hard, Rumple! I've
It's very hard, Rumple! I've loved the guy since he was a toddler and probably, like his parents, made too many excuses for him. My husband, however (possibly after so many years as a high-school teacher/principal), has never liked nor trusted the fellow. After the 'political' blow-up, my DH has an excellent excuse for closing the Chez grannyd doors in R’s face on a permanent basis. The majority of my relationship with R was via e-mail, so it can be continued if and when I finally decide how to proceed. The advice I've received on StepTalk has been truly invaluable. ♥️
Great stuff, ESMOD! As usual.
Great stuff, ESMOD! As usual.
It is not safe to ever interace with this POS 1:1 again. Ever.
ESMOD, I completely agree that there should be zero interface with this POS. If zero contact or interface is not adhered to, then only in group gatherings.
Only in group settings and when armed. and ready to use it in self defense.
IMHO.
Grrrrrr.
"Thank you
For your apology"
(the end)
Short and sweet, TT! I only
Short and sweet, TT! I only wish that I didn't love the guy so much....
As they say
Time will tell. Allow for more time to pass aka breathing room.
Try to look at it as a form
Try to look at it as a form of tough love. His treatment of you was totally unacceptable. I'm sure if anyone acquaintance or new friend did that, you wouldn't hesitate to cut them loose. XOXO
True enough, Ani. If the
True enough, Ani. If the fellow's parents had put even a smidgen of 'tough love' into their son's upbringing, he would not be the menace that he is today. Instead, he's a textbook example of what results when children are raised with neither correction nor consequences for even the worst behaviour.
I think I would really listen to your DH, it sounds like he
I think I would really listen to your DH, it sound like he sees this kid for who and what he truly is. Honestly, he sounds physically dangerous. If you start up the relationship again, you should never have him at your home. If you want to see him, it should be in a public and well populated location. I know you love him, but your physical and mental well being needs to come first.
notsurehowtodeal, you sound
notsurehowtodeal, you sound like my DH who insists that if I’m determined to see R again, it'll have to be somewhere other than our home. DH is still furious, partly because I've been so upset and partly because he’s concerned about my safety were I alone with R sometime in the future. Although I'm very independent, I can also appreciate my DH's point of view and realize that he's being protective, rather than overbearing.
The general consensus is that I either end all contact with R or, at best, thank him for his apology and steer clear. My foremost regret is knowing that, apart from me, no one genuinely loves R (not even his parents, after far too many years of his outrageous and violent acting out). I have never seen him hug or respond with the slightest affection to any family member other than myself, and know that my rejection will cause him a lot of damage. I feel so damned sorry for him, despite the fact that he creates all of his own troubles. Thinking about him hurts my heart. But, as Rags often states, I have to take care of me!
About apologies ...
Apologies are either accepted or not. They do not merit thanks or gratitude.
Wise words, Winterglow.
Wise words, Winterglow. Thanks.
Protecting yourself is not rejecting him.
Protecting yourself is not rejecting him. He has separated himself from family and from decent people due to his chosen behaviors. He is an adult, regardless of his upbringing, he has to own and be held accountable for his chosen crap behaviors.
Do not beat yourself up over his choices. Your purging the risk that he is from your life and marriage is not rejection. It is prudence.
IMHO of course.
Ah Rags,
Ah Rags,
You are right, of course. However, like many individuals with a personality disorder, my R is hyper-sensitive and quick to take offense. He will definitely see my 'purging the risk' as rejection and will be hurt and angry; no way to avoid that outcome.
I’ve been keeping busy with a new sewing project and in planning a trip to warmer climes, pending a thaw in the Great White North. Mr. grannyd and I both need a change!