What Do We Do?
After we called SS11 out yesterday about his hypochondriac behavior and the Google search history about mosquito bites, SS improved significantly. He had an open and honest conversation about several different topics with DH and I and his behavior was polite and respectful. He was like a totally different kid. This morning, he woke up in a good mood, helped clean without being asked, and spent tons of time playing with and looking after DD. He was literally the perfect child... until BM and GF called tonight.
DH scheduled BM's phone call for tonight at 8 p.m. We were out to dinner, DH, me, DD, SS, and SS' only friend (in our town). BM calls at 8 and we were halfway through dinner. SS immediately asked if he could leave the restaurant to talk to her. We said "No," that SS could stay at the table and talk. SS got up and walked over to the waiting area of the restaurant to take his call. DH was irritated that SS did what he wanted despite DH's request but whatever. Whenever we call SS during a meal while he is at BM's, the call is 5 minutes and SS hangs up quickly to go eat. I figured SS would do the same, wanting to eat and hang out with his friend. Nope. SS spent 30 minutes in the waiting area and when DH went over to collect him, SS just told DH to get a box for his food so he could finish his call with BM and GF. From what limited content I could hear from our table, I definitely heard my name and my parents' names several times, which always makes me nervous. And whenever we would look back at SS to make sure he was still there, he would turn around and face the wall to talk. Then, after the call was done, SS came back and resumed life as normal, like no weirdness happened.
I kind of freaked out to DH. I told him that I hate that our calls with SS are always monitored by BM or GF and SS is totally okay with that and keeps calls brief and uneventful; talking about the weather, school, sports, etc. Yet when BM calls during our time, SS will run 20+ feet away, despite our request for him to stay put, and act all weird during his calls with BM and shares every detail of our lives. I told DH that if SS is trash talking us (which I don't know for sure), I want it all to stop. I am not going to live my life with a spy who comes to visit and then reports everything back or makes up crap to appease BM. I know I shouldn't care what BM thinks, and I don't for the most part, but I worry about the drama that can ensue based on whatever SS is telling BM. I asked DH "At what point to we just say no more visits?" but DH didn't like that question. DH isn't ready to give up SS. Calling SS out on his shit only makes him more uncomfortable and alienates him further and leaving it alone just bothers me and allows SS and BM to get away with their toxic behavior. What do we do?
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Time to take the phone and not allow BM or GF to interrupt your
visitation with SS.
I would point out the sequence of events of the good day you recently had. How he was called out on manipulative crap followed by a nice day ... until.... SS spoke with his two blended family opposition mothers and his crap behavior immediately started again.
Tell him no more. No more will he be allowed to get sullen and unpleasant while visiting his dad's home. Never again.
Tell him that how he behaves will stipulate how much call time he will get with his BM, etc... and the timing of those calls. Never will they be allowed during meal times, or activities, etc... He can speak with THEM just before bed time. He calls, gets a reasonable but limited number of minutes, they he surrenders the phone until the next AM.
In fact, DH needs to tell BM that how much talk time she gets with SS when he is on his dad visitaiton time will directly mirror how much time DH gets to speak with his son when his son is with BM. NO more scheduled calls. Just a short call just before bed. THat is is. Period, dot. If BM backs off, then she gets more call time with SS at the end of his vitation day at dad's house.
If he violates the stipulations, he loses his phone from the time he arrives until he gets it for a few minutes to call BM/etc... just before bed.
Lather... rinse... repeat.
THat is what I would do.
Now for daddy. Daddy needs to find his balls and man up. No more allowing this shit kid telling him what to do. Until BM backs off, SS gets 5mins to talk with the blended family opposition mommies and then his phone is taken. PERIOD DOT!!!
Every time. If BM monitors the calls he has with his father, then his father monitors his calls with his mommies. Scheduled of not, if the family is out to dinner BM gets a text that you are all at dinner and Spawn will call her when you get home.
What is good for the geese, is good for the gander. So to speak.
Time for DH to grow some spine and man up rather than being his failed family spawn's and his XS's man-bitch. BM has more balls than your DH does.
His continued catering to the toxic spawn and the Harpy twins is beyond my understanding and needs to stop IMHO.
smh
That would be
Great except for the fact that the CP BM has the upper hand and the fact that the "microchip" has been implanted deeply at age 11. This kid is going to go the way of 99.9% PASed skids no matter what. Rags, your case was different because the courts had your back being the CP BM and stepdad. Because you were the sane parents (very rare unfortunately in the case of CP BM and their new spouses) and with the court's backing, you were able to overcome any PAS the NCP Spermclan were trying to perpetrate.
The sane NCP biodad and SM don't have this luxury I'm afraid. They simply wait for the inevitable as they DON'T have the court's backing nor enough time to influence for the good. Laying down the law just results in the CP HCGUBM running to the courts/authorities with "abuse" charges and the courts finding in their favor.
Some NCP biodads and SMs "fall on the grenade" and start laying down the law just to keep from prolonging the agony. Which accelerates the complete PASout. At that point they have no other choice than to drop the rope as fighting the pro-CP BM system is completely cost prohibitive and akin to being a defense lawyer for a murderer who was caught on video and arrives to court with bloody clothes on.
Thinkthrice, this is pretty
Thinkthrice, this is pretty much where we are at 100%
My Step experience is the unicorn example for sure.
For us it was not only holding the opposition accountable, it was keeping SS fully informed of the facts in an escalating age appropriate manner. The manipulative side finds manipulation much harder when the kid knows they are lying.
Even with our rare example of success, SS-30 has baggage from THEM. No kid can escape completely unscathed from the machinations of someone like so many of these oppostion parents demonstrate they are.
As close as SS, DW, and I are. We would be more engaged if SS had not been subjected to their crap.
12+ years after SS aged out form under the CO and has had nearly zero contact with them, it still infuriates me that he struggles with their baggage, as limited as it is.
Kids should not be subjected to THEM. Neither should the quality side of the blended family equation.
Why in the world did your DH
Why in the world did your DH schedule a time for BM to call when you would be out to dinner? It was incredibly rude for SS to leave his friend at the table while he took a 30 minute phone call, and I'm sure it ruined your meal. That one seems self inflicted, though.
Your DH should point out to SS how terribly rude it was for him to leave the table for half an hour. He's old enough to learn that that's something you just don't do. A 5 minute call is fine. 30 minutes is RUDE. Especially after he was told to stay at the table. It isn't as if he's going to be away from BM and GF for that long.
I think the spy's visits are going to drop off as he gets older. There will be more sports, and he and BM will claim he's old enough to decide he doesn't want to visit. Your DH would be nuts to go back to court to force him to come, so it should be a self-limiting problem. I can definitely see him going the way of Just Making the Best's SS. I'd disengage and wait for it to happen.
I agree that DH needs to tell
I agree that DH needs to tell SS that it was incredibly rude of him to leave the table for that long. Even if he hadn't had a friend there, it would've been rude, but it's extra rude to do that to a friend he doesn't see often.
I'm of two minds as to what you should do for future calls. Part of me would be inclined to engineer a situation SS couldn't get away from (like in the car) at call time and see what transpires when he knows you can hear him. The other part of me knows that it's futile to try and intervene to stop a skid from shit-talking/lying/spying because they're just going to do it anyway (ask me how I know).
Time for your DH to start
Time for your DH to start asking questions. You've noticed that he rushes away to take his mother's calls but she is always present for yours, why is that? What is he hiding? Had he done something shameful and doesn't dare talk to you about it? Keep chipping away at him until he realizes that you're not stupid and that you are well aware what he's doing and why ... just don't say it out loud, let him work it out for himself
He's old enough to deal with reasoning and explanations. He's also old enough to be told how effin' rude it is to leave the table and, especially, leave a friend and guest sitting there. What kind of message is he sending this kid? That he's only there to make up numbers?
Let him know how truly rude many of his behaviours are. And, as above, I would orchestrate it so that the next call happens in the car.
Unfortunately
The answer will be "IDK" when the REAL reason is the narrative that dad is not the real parent so he does not deserve any consideration nor respect...cementing the double standard.
I can't wait for your SS and
I can't wait for your SS and JMTB's SS to grow up, find a girl, knock her up, then have her go crazy, ghost him and PAS his kid. And then the SS's can go though family court but on the losing team.
You KNOW they will find girls
You KNOW they will find girls just like mommy and be royally F'ed too!
And yet
They will fail to make the connection.
These PASed Skids
Are basically recon for the HCGUBM so that she can remain relevant on a permanent basis until such time as skid PASes out completely. I remember clearly when OSS was acting as 007 literally counting the number of adult beverages we had in a mini frig to report back to the mothership.
The calls are similar to the "walkaway" phone call when a Guilty Daddy wants to talk to the HCGUBM in private away from SM's ears, possibly unilaterally deciding the schedule with the shrew.
DH wants to "go with the flow" and "not make waves" so that he will continue having access to BM's (no longer his) son.
DH may need to continue this kabuki theatre outside your home similar to separate vacations for the sake of your and DD's sanity as she gets old enough to recognize the double standard.
Our CO doesn't provide much
Our CO doesn't provide much information on phone calls. It just states that both parties will have reasonable Facetime/Phone contact with SS at least twice per week. There is no clause about interfering with or monitoring calls. There is no duration or schedule. DH set the precedence that he mostly calls every Sunday and Wednesday or Thursday, and he texts BM day of to schedule the time. In return, BM has handled it the same way. When BM first moved, calls weren't an issue. BM would schedule and SS would talk to BM wherever, even right in front of us. There was no anxiety about being close to us or anything. A few years ago, BM emailed DH, accusing him of physical abuse and she threw in that SS is no longer comfortable at our house because he knows we eavesdrop on his phone calls. We had never ever eavesdropped and gave SS privacy if he wanted it. That was the email that changed everything and from there forward, SS has demanded to take all calls in privacy and will do anything to make that happen. We have tried being out in public during the scheduled calls, we have tried being in the car, none of it helps. I swear, SS would throw himself out of a moving vehicle to gain privacy. And when you tell SS to stay put, you can literally see his brain malfunction. He starts to panic and you can see his eyes search for an exit. It's like he knows if he doesn't find privacy, he will have BM to deal with. Thank God SS doesn't have his own phone yet and all communication goes through DH's phone.
As far as last night's call goes, BM texted DH yesterday morning and DH scheduled it for 8. The only reason it interfered with dinner was because our errands ran behind. DD is usually in bed by 8, so we were out much later than anticipated and just had to roll with it. Should we have pulled SS back to the table and demanded he finish his meal, probably.
DH and I are at a loss on how to handle SS. SS has been raised by a narcissist and is becoming a narcissist. Nothing we say or do makes any difference. If we call SS out on his crap and try to discipline, he gets awkward and denies everything, then gets defensive and aggressive, and then spins the whole conversation around to pin the blame back on us. It's a mental fuckery that leaves us almost stunned and it is exactly how BM has psychologically abused DH all these years. When I asked DH last night why he doesn't deal with SS in the moment, he says he almost needs to develop an attack plan because if he doesn't, SS ends up playing DH a fool and DH ends up looking stupid. It's like DH needs to develop a speech and the discipline ahead of time to make it "effective." We have tried "working" with BM on SS' behavior and her response is basically that SS is perfect and it must be an "us" issue. And, if we do truly discipline SS in ways of revoking privileges or sending him to his room, we just end up getting emails from BM after the visit, accusing us of terrible things. With DD in the mix, I don't want to deal with any allegations or risk CPS or put her at risk.
I am considering sending DH and SS to my in-laws out of town for their next visit. I told DH that I really don't want SS around. DH became stressed because that will interfere with his work schedule because he works hybrid. I told him I don't care because with his hybrid schedule, he tries to leave SS with me anyway and I just don't want to be around him. I will stay home with DD that week or I will take DD and go somewhere else for a week. DH didn't seem to keen on those options, but understands my frustrations with SS.
I honestly just wish this kid hated us. I wish that he could be clear about his feelings so we could rip the bandaid off and be done with this crap. My Grandpa's kids did that. At 12, they told him they hated him and never wanted to see him again and they never did; that was their last visit. Instead, SS still seems to care about us in a limited capacity and wants to visit still, but is clearly conflicted about how it impacts BM and GF. He is walking the loyalty bind tightrope. So, we continue to play out this long, drawn out scenario, knowing that the outcome is bleak. And DH won't be the one to stop visits; he wants SS to say he doesn't want to come anymore. DH already said he won't take BM back to court and if SS doesn't want to visit, the visits will stop.
It was 15 when SS make the
It was 15 when SS make the full spin to never wanting to see us again. At 16 when we forced a visit, it was fairly pleasant (with the exception of sneaking out and getting picked up by the cops). That was the end though.
I don't have advice, because nothing we did worked. You are in a lose- lose situation. It really is just survival until the visits stop. Just be the kind and non-judgemental family. That's all you can really do. Take the pressure off for him.
That is the hardest part.
That is the hardest part. Nothing we say or do makes any difference. Can't really talk to SS about any of it and if we do it makes no difference. Definitely can't talk to BM and try to work it out with her. So we literally just go full survival mode and just relish when he's not here. It feels like we have zero control over the situation and zero control when he is with us. BM has full control at all times, even when she isnt here because she is in his head. We are not an authority figure to him and we don't have to be respected, even if we try to enforce it.
It's honestly like having a nephew or friend's kid visit. But even then, I think that would be better than this situation. At least if it was a nephew or friend's kid, they would be expected to behave, they would likely respect us, and we would at least have authority to have a conversation or discipline.
Maybe this is what you need to do, treat SS like he is a nephew
Maybe this is what you need to do, treat SS like is a nephew or a friend's kid. You demand respect and certain behavioral standards, but you quit worrying about "raising" him or "parenting" him or worrying about how he will turn out as an adult. Using the phone at dinner as an example, he can take the call away from the table for a couple of minutes, but then you get him and make him come back to the table and interact with his guest. You tell him what he did was rude, but then let it go. In other words, quit trying to impart life lessons, just deal with the present.
I know you have to worry about blowback from BM, but maybe try and not let it influence your choices quite so much. Plus, if you ignore more of SS's behaviors, and just let some things go, it might make it easier. I'm not advocating completely giving up on him, but maybe turn his vists more into "vacation time" rather than "parenting time." I'm not sure I'm explaining this right - but if you viewed him as a nephew that you are not ultimately responsible for, it might be helpful.
Here’s what I would do
I would get a small voice recorder, the kind that starts when you speak and stops when it's silent. I would place it somewhere in a room. I would tell SS to take his call in that room, you know, so he can have "privacy". Then I would sit back and listen.
I might let this go on, and play games about it. I might repeat a thing or 2 he talks shit about. Or. I might bring it to DH, keeping a copy for myself, and explain that that was why I didn't want to be around his kid.
In my house, I can do as I please, and that includes recording people I think are talking untrue shit about me that can ruin my life. Your SS doesn't pay bills in your house, he's not entitled to privacy.