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How do you block out the HC when they are masters at their sickness?

Biostep7777's picture

Seriously, we have an enormous issue with our BM. She finds ways to get DH to jump and if he doesn't, it will look bad in court. Keep in mind, we do not give a crap AT ALL about her but we are in a huge custody battle so it's a long game right now but the boundaries are a huge problem. She has this way of making everything she does seem like she's just a great mother looking out for their best interest and if DH doesn't do it he's not looking out for their best interest. Like, the sports. Omfg!!! It's CONSTANT. If over the weekend, something pops up with sports and an email is sent, she emails him right away saying SS would love to do this and she is available to take him if DH is not and what a wonderful opportunity ect.. so we are put in the position of either taking him or looking like jerks. Not that DH minds taking him but every single weekend ends up with DH literally running all over town with this stuff. Something came up so now he has to go to her house and get SS shirt he needs (he needs this specific shirt) then she said other SS has his teybiuts tomorrow and would love to go to her house and use the equipment she has there (obviously DH isn't going to do it but now SS is going to be all pissy) so the one day we had free? DH is going to have to find a place to practice with SS and then tomorrow it's more sports for both kids and more things are popping up and DH is running all over and we are both completely freaking aggravated with this crap but "it's for the kids" and it's just too much at this point. She is incredibly sick and twisted so her manipulation game is STRONG and frankly, neither one of us are sick so we can't be one step ahead of her because we do not have sick minds that use children as pawns but in court? That's not what is going to be exposed. She will just look like this involved mom that wants everything that she can do for her kids and if DH doesn't do the same, he will look like a jerk. How the hell do you live like this?? She is really reallllly bad. The things she has done are SO SICK. Like truly sick. 

tog redux's picture

Well, we've all told you, you have to just NOT do her bidding and stop worrying about how it will look in court.  But the truth is, as long as you are in court, you can't block her out. She will be on overdrive to show what a MOTY she is and how awful you guys are. But why does DH have to go get SS's shirt? Why couldn't BM drop it off?

Some people in court do see through this stuff, they really do.  Plenty of people on here have had judges tell BM to quit interfering in the father's time and overscheduling him. The problem is that BMs like this don't give up until they get what they want. So decide what is really worth fighting over. Her co-parenting with your DH is NOT worth fighting over, because she is not capable of it.

Biostep7777's picture

I guess that's what I'm asking. How do we block her out but still look on in court. Is this not possible to do? I'm so frustrated! DH is so frustrated. It's sickening. He told get he would get SS cleats. She kept sending emails about the cleats. He finally said "Yes! I had the cleats delivered for Thursday. His try out is Saturday so we are all set" then she said "well they were able to get him in on Wednesday so I was able to get the cleats sooner. Do you want to reimburse me or give me the ones you got by Wednesday?" 
 

like.....WHAT THE FUUUUUUUUU...." it's so so annoying. She has no life. She absolutely cannot stand that he is married and happy. She absolutely hates my children so much because she feels they take away from her kids. In discovery she is asking for proof of everything he has ever spent on my kids. Lol!! So stupid! They were arguing about the cost of SS braces and she is asking what DH contributed towards my kid's braces (which was ZERO) me and my kid's father paid for my kids braces. My husband is not responsible for that nor would I expect it when myself abd their dad are perfectly capable of taking care of our own kids. God I hate this woman! She's so pathetic she just wants to make everybody else around her miserable. She is so overly obsessed with these kids it's creepy and unhealthy but DH doesn't like uo to her standards?? He's a "bad father" the kids love the attention they get from their mother abd how she revolves her life around them so in their eyes we suck too because we don't kiss their asses and we treat them like normal kids and not royal highnesses. Ugh! 

tog redux's picture

The problem is, you believe that not doing everything she says will make you look bad in court, but that's not necessarily true. Court doesn't expect DH to let BM run his home while the kids are there.  So you really can set boundaries.  For example - if BM emails about some wonderful activity for the day that she just thinks SS will love, the answer is, "No, sorry, we've already made plans for the weekend." if SS gets upset, he will survive.  BM may make a big stink of it, but most judges are parents too - they know kids don't get to do every activity they want.

Tryouts? I think that's what the mangled word you put in there was Smile - yes, you take him, that has implications going forward. Next time contact his teams so you will know ahead of time what is scheduled.

The cleats? Do what's best for you - is it easier to reimburse, or drop off?  But all communication is as minimal as possible. Multiple communications are ignored. No arguing. No scolding BM or defending yourself.

Yes, BM is a miserable, bitter, hate-filled woman who will make your life miserable IF YOU LET HER. And yes, she will spin everything to be DH failing the kids - don't assume the court will buy all of that and set some boundaries.

Winterglow's picture

Send a message via OFW

"Please stop interfering with my visitation time by planning things for our son on my time. As from now, any message concerning my son and anything you have prepared for him during my time will be ignored. Do not intrude on my time with my son any more."

She can keep this nonsense up for years so stop conceding. Your DH needs to take his time with his son and ignore his ex entirely. She has no right to hinder his relationship with his son. He needs to make a stand and stop running after her every whim. He has every right to spend time with his son without her stepping in.

GrudgingSM's picture

I feel like I live inside of chess match. I think the BM in my case it's frustrating and lazy, but where she stands out as exceptional is in her manipulation game. Same behaviors you're describing, and also constantly sick and overwhelmed but she just cares soooooooo much about the kids! She's done everything! More than most mothers would do! It's really masterful.

I think it's a good idea to use either email or the custody app that you use to document a request about time and boundaries, as winter glow stated above. I'd also say that in our case CPS told DH about some of BM's lies. And it seems they're well aware she's lying. So I also wanted to echo that yes sometimes judges and CPS see through this. They even said half of the calls that they deal with our BMs looking for revenge

tog redux's picture

It is like a chess game, only she gets to change the rules whenever she feels like it.

"The only way to win is to not play the game" was a helpful expression for me to remember. You can't beat a HCBM at her game, she's been practicing it since she was a young child. You can only refuse to play.

Biostep7777's picture

Agreed!! I guess that was my question. How do you refuse to play but still not look bad in court as she will say "he refuses to communicate about the children" it's like no matter what we do, she's so masterful at the sick manipulative games that she actually looks like the reasonable one! It's crazy making. He overly communicates? He's harassing. He under communicates? He refuses to coparent. How do you do this??? I have kids. Their dad and j just parent. That's it. It's sooooo easy. There are no games. No manipulation. We are all mentally healthy. She's so sick but looks good?? It's literally crazy to me! 

CastleJJ's picture

You evaluate whether it really needs a response. BM used to email DH nonsense 4 times per day. Our attorney said 5 categories require a response: parenting time, sickness/medical, school, sports, and $$. That's it. You aren't expected to concede on anything. 

You can block BM out by not giving into every whim and by limiting your responses to BIFF Method. BM wants you to change something, too bad. No judge will look down on your for that. BM tried to argue that DH undercommunicated and the judge told her to pack sand. 

Sometimes all the response requires is "Thank you for the update." If she emails you with information but includes abusive snide remarks, ignore the remarks and focus only on the information. 

BM once sent an email saying: "SS coach is x for football this year. I think it is shitty that you won't pay for half of his sports unless we are in a legal battle. That being said, when you decide to contribute to your child, let me know."

My DH's response is: "Thank you for the information regarding SS coach. I will email him to get added to the team email list." He doesn't even touch the comments about $$ because he pays CS and she is baiting him. BIFF method all the way. And judges view this as communication. 

If BM emails: "SS has a camp this weekend that I signed him up for. He really needs to go. I'll be picking him up Sunday Morning."

The answer is: "We have already made other plans for this weekend and due to your late notification, we will not be able to accomodate his camp. My court ordered parenting time is from x date and time to x date and time. We cannot accomodate an earlier pick up. Next time, if you expect me to accomodate an event on my parenting time, please notify me in advance so I can take it under consideration and plan accordingly."

tog redux's picture

Yes, all of this. OP, you can't control for every variable. If he communicates on the important issues, than he's communicating.

She can say, "he won't communicate with me," and DH can say, "she sends me 32 emails on average on my time with the children, Your Honor. I reply to the important ones. I would like to use OFW for all communication going forward so I can demonstrate to the court that I am communicating with her. I would also like to ask that she limit her communication with me, as it's overwhelming."

 

 

Biostep7777's picture

99.9% of the time it is about sports. I'm sure her attorney told her that so that's what she writes and expects a response about. She just emailed him AGAIN this is the 7th email since he has picked them up Thursday afternoon and it's Saturday afternoon (it won't be the last either) asking him to please let SS come to her house so she can warm him up before his practice. What is she trying to do??? Of course that's out of line and completely ridiculous and DH is going to ignore it but what is she trying to prove?? DH and SS already have planned on time to warm up tomorrow. Why does she feel it's necessary to have him drive back to her house and let him warm up with her and if DH doesn't answer he looks bad??? I'm confused. She will not stop! She is playing major games and it's obvious. I just hope the judge sees it! 

tog redux's picture

She wants to intrude on your time. She wants DH's attention on her, instead of on you. She also probably gets anxious when the kids aren't with her because she's enmeshed with them. AND, she gets supply from sports, so she wants to be the one to take him to the practice and feel like MOTY.

She won't stop, so don't hope for that - at least not until court is over and you guys can set very firm boundaries. For now - just expect it and don't let it upset you so much.

Also - maybe DH doesn't need to tell you about every email she sends. That way you won't feel so bothered.

Biostep7777's picture

Email number 8 just came in about how he won't answer her and she wants what is best for their son and that he is harassing her by not agreeing to her demands. I mean straight up crazy. Cray-zy!!!! This 8th email is 5 paragraphs long talking about how concerning it is that he won't agree to SS doing 3 sports teams at a time, demanding him respond about socks saying the ones he bought weren't good enough and that she's incredibly concerned about his lack of communication. Omfg!! This is seriously SERIOUSLY INSANE. I'll update when more emails come in. Lol!!!! We are laughing at this point. Oh and she also told him that he needs to stop telling the coach he's not getting emails because he's probably annoying the coach. She's losing it!!!!

monkeyseedo's picture

Oh my, she is spiraling isn't she?  Just keep it all and ignore her and do drop off at usual time.  If she comes out yelling, just drive off.  Show it all in court.  And please yes, I wouldn't agree to more activities, he has plenty.

Then again, if she's spiraling it's possible she could show up since he doesn't answer -or call a welfare check, anything to keep herself relevant and intrude on his time.  So a simple response like "No, I will bring him home at the usual after my parenting time is complete".  And "I also am not agreeing to the additional extra-curricular during my time". 

Biostep7777's picture

Email number 9 just came in! She's demanding that DH answer her about socks and asking if he was able to wash SS's pants and to confirm he won't be late to practice and he "better answer her" and she will be contacting her lawyer. About what socks??? We are literally laughing our asses off. She is so ridiculous. Oh and she's also telling him that the coaches expect them to be at least 15 minutes early to practice to warm up. Ummm I think they would have says that if that's what they wanted. 

Rags's picture

How about pasting the long chain of emails into OFW and responding with a brief "I will not respond to these harrassing emails and as I have repeatedly told you, I will not accept nor will i recognize any communication from you that is outside of OFW."

That gets her crap into OFW for review by your attorney and the courts, and you stay on message with OFW being the only conduit for communication.

You are driving her nuts.  Stay the course.

And ... have fun!

Diablo

CastleJJ's picture

The judge is not going to look down on him for this lunacy. Tog is right. She is inundating him. 

He needs to respond and say, "NO". His response is simple. "BM, I have already made accommodations for SS to warm up tomorrow. I will not be responding to any further emails requesting changes for this weekend's schedule. SS will see you at the scheduled court ordered pick up time." Then he doesn't respond to another email after. She can freak out all she wants. He gave her a firm "No" and left no further room for discussion so if she continues, it will look like she is harassing. 

Please buy this book to act as a guide for dealing with BM and responding using BIFF method. It will save you a lot of sanity.

 https://www.amazon.com/BIFF-Co-Parent-Communication-Difficult-Conflict/d...

Biostep7777's picture

He told her if she needs an immediate response for something to send it to him on OFW because  he doesn't always check his emails. She refuses and emails him and keeps demanding an immediate response. What does she not understand?? 

CastleJJ's picture

Yes, do what Rags said. Copy all of her emails into OFW, and respond via OFW saying:

"I have told you previously that I am not responding to any communication sent outside of OFW. You have sent 8 emails during this scheduled parenting time alone regarding adjustments to my parenting time this weekend. I will not be making any changes this weekend nor will I be responding to any further emails on this matter. You will see SS at pickup on x date at x time as written in the court order."

THIS IS ALL HE NEEDS TO SAY. 

shamds's picture

Because of time constraints or budgets. Hc bio mum can play that game of trying to be the best parent ever and claim daddy is such a crap parent and how dare he not take you to blah blah blah.

skids themselves try to spring last minute things on parents and expect said parent jumps through hoops even when it isn't a priority. 
 

you matter too as a spouse or partner and any joint kids you have too. You all deserve time together too and if this means your husband can't take skid to a sports activity or event, so be it. He won't die, he will survive

bio mum can play the whole be the best parent game but its a miserable life to live

in my case yrs ago sd's did bio mums bidding on cue. Last minute changes and i was notifed as we were leaving home or morning of the event and we were expected to cowtow to these lazy arse inconsiderate skids.

guess what?? I put my foot down firmly up hubbys arse and told him we have 2 kids aged 1 & 2.5, thise skids can make their way to the place for meetups. Ss20 can do it as an adult and so too can sd23 and since sd13 lives with sd23 and sd23 can drive but chooses not to because biomum and stepdad made a bullshit rule that she can't drive to meet hubby, then they can make their way.

i am not dealing with 3 hours of chauffeur driving in stop start traffic till our kids puke every friggin time. They make their way and if not on time, tough shit we go do our own thing. We had ss20 (30mins from leaving for a weddinng interstate) was still showering and hubby told him this was ridiculous. 10mins to us leaving and ss still hadn't loaded luggage into car, hubby again lost it and ss told him to be patient. We left several mins late and i told hubby we have 2 little kids whom i managed to bathe and get dressed on time and packed and fed the cats and cleaned their litter, whats ss's excuse because I ain't doing this shit anymore.

This is what happens when ppl think they are the centre of everyones universe

CastleJJ's picture

And remember, if DH concedes and agrees to everything, the judge isn't going to see a problem with the current situation, since DH seems to be accommodating and agreeable to BM. 

You can disagree with BM and still coparent. Honestly, disagreeing with BM when you disagree will show the judge a better picture of what's happening. 

NoWireCoatHangarsEVER's picture

Brief: Keep it short, typically a paragraph. This is even when the comment you’re responding to goes on and on for many paragraphs or pages. This leaves much less for the other person to react to and is often sufficient to get your main point across.

Informative: Give some straight information, rather than emotions, opinions, defenses or arguments. You don’t need to defend yourself when another person is being hostile. It’s not about you. It’s about their inability to manage their emotions and responses. Just stay focused on providing relevant information.

Friendly: This may seem hard to do when you’re being attacked in writing or verbally. But this avoids feeding the hostilities and may even calm an upset person. Just a friendly greeting and closing; nothing too involved. This helps keep the hostilities from escalating. It also shows that you have good self-restraint.

Firm: This means that you end the conversation rather than feeding the hostilities. It doesn’t mean harsh. Just avoid anything that opens the door to more hostile comments back. Say something that calmly ends the conversation. Sometimes, you will need a response from the other person, so just ask a question seeking a Yes or No answer by such-and-such time and/or date. Then end on a friendly note.

https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/5-types-people-who-can-ruin-your....

 

shellpell's picture

Why are you so afraid of court and think that whatever BM does or asks for, you have to jump? You keep saying what about court what about looking bad? BM isn't the judge and jury. You have rights too, you know. I think that doing whatever BM wants makes you look worse in front of a judge.

Biostep7777's picture

Because she's a master manipulator and they have a way of getting people to believe them. I mean, anyone who has dealt with an actually narcissist knows how hard it is to win in court. They are sick and manipulating people is their specialty. 

Rags's picture

Time to stop being her bitches and start enforcing boundaries.  She has you jumping to her demands as you winge to her manipulations.

Grow a pare. Both of you.  Think of what your DH;s children see. They see a ball-less non man and they see their mother slinging her giant pair of testicles around like she actually has them.

Time for your and DH to grow up, become a confident man, a confident woman, and a strong and confident couple that stands firmly to protect your marriage and the Skids from BM's manipulative bullsht.

Force BM to step up in front of a Judge and spout her crap as you bare her idiot ass with facts and as you replay her manipulations into the public record.

Have some spine.

am i nuts's picture

Stand up, be confident in yourselves and each other.

Don't ever be defined by someone else.

 

You got this!

tog redux's picture

I would suggest that your DH have his attorney email BM's attorney and tell him to ask his client to stop harassing DH, that she sent 10+ emails in one day regarding a pair of socks, and that she's interfering in his time. That way it's on record when BM says he's "not communicating".

BM in our case got this way too at times. I honestly think she would spiral from intense anxiety and sometimes delusion, when they were in court and she feared losing SS. She told her attorney once that she feared DH was trying to take SS away from her.  She has a history of trauma and mental illness, as well as a dysfunctional family with generations of alienation from parents. While I do think much of what she did was planned, a lot was unconscious as well and triggered by her own trauma.   But she does need to be called on her behavior during these times.

Biostep7777's picture

I agree. This is not the case on our situation. HCBM came from a very wealthy family snd expects her kids to have the very best if everything, be privileged, entitled and she teaches then to believe they are better, smarter, superior to everyone. It's sick. She's a narcissist to the 10th degree. (Many therapists have pointed this out) she is the definition of the golden uterus. I mean the very definition! 

tog redux's picture

Well, narcissists are often created from trauma, and rich families aren't immune to that. But at any rate, spend the $50 to have his attorney send that email to hers.