Following up with contempt charges..

Forums:

DH snd I talked last night. Here's the problem. BM keeps provoking him. She keeps trying to get him to argue, she keeps putting him in situations where she thinks he will explode (their kids play a ton of sports so they see each other every weekend) she will walk over to them when SS is sitting with dad on the bleachers and say "SS are you okay?? What is wrong?? What's going on here" and SS will say "nothing is wrong" then she will say "come with me so we can talk" and take him away and DH sits there stunned. Then she wull follow him out and try to antagonize him. Then one time oldest SS stayed with her while he took youngest to an out of town tournament. Oldest SS didn't want to drive there and back and he has a game in town and since they have ROFR, he stayed with her. DH told her he would pick SS up on his way home. So, what happens? The next day mom shows up at the out of town game WITH SS!! The whole reason he was to stay with her was because he didn't want to go back and forth. So she shows up, sets a chair up next to her snd has SS sit with her. ON DAD'S TIME. She is truly a piece of shit. She keeps trying to get him to lose it. She thought DH was going to be all pissed snd say "SS come sit with me!" Or something. Instead DH went over and smiled and said "I'm so glad you could make it!" BM did you bring his school supplies?" (So he could go home with DH after the game) And she said "no" and ge said "oh okay can you stop them off to my house later then?" She was stunned!! Lol! She WANTED him to flip out. She stumbled over her words and "said okay that's fine....But..." and he said "great! Thanks! Son do you want to go get a hot dog with me?" SS looked at mom and said "I'm not hungry" so DH said ok let me know if you want one later. She's a psychopath. I'm sure of it. She is so.sick. Our family therapist has spoken to her a couple times and while he can't diagnose her he just says "sick people can't help being sick" so anyway.... he takes a recorder with him every time he interacts with HCBM. This one time he didn't have it because he was not expecting her to be there so he didn't record it. Of course! Ughhh! And she said he was yelling at her in front of the kids. (No he wasn't) and that is contempt.
What else can he do to protect himself? I have kids so I can't go sit at every game and frankly, I can't even stand to be around her. She depresses me. But, she is trying to get him to flip out and it's obvious but how can we prove it and how can he protect himself? His attorneys are useless BTW.

First off, get.another

First off, get.another.attorney. Beg, borrow or steal the money (not steal).

Second, she wants his attention, and she wants it badly. He should continue ignoring and recording. If she comes over, he can say, "hello" and nothing else.

I remember these days very well, BM here did the same thing, there isn't a lot he can do except keep his cool and be as gray rock as possible. Move away from her if needed (not obviously - he can get up to stretch his legs and end up sitting elsewhere). Ignore and be civil and try not to have any conversations with her, period. If she brings something up, he can say, "send me an email and we will discuss" and walk away.

It's all attention-seeking.

Again, she says he yelled at her, he says he didn't. That's it - it's not a very provable thing, and judges don't care about stupid accusations like this.

I did go with DH to most events to be a witness and because she wouldn't show her ass in front of me. But I understand why you can't.

Your husband needs to make

Your husband needs to make friends with one of the other parents and use them as a buffer, or volunteer as a coaching assistant.

The most tragic part about this is the most kids report some sort of relief when their parents finally separate because they don't have to witness the fighting as much as when they live together. BM seems like she loves the fight and the confrontation. Some people just are like this they like to fight they like to argue they like to cause drama. It's like your therapist said sick people are sick. She spends all of her time trying to elicit certain emotions from your DH and SS and trying to control situations.

I'm sure SS is embarrassed by all these antics at the games. Your DH might want to have a conversation with him and ask him if he would prefer if he wasn't there for some of the games. It might be easier for him to not be so embarrassed by his parents.

I agree. It's gross. She is

I agree. It's gross. She is absolutely disgusting. Well he actually tries not to go to every game because of this but also because he does have a family and we need him too. But, then she says to the judge "he hardly shows up to games and when he actually does, he's late or on his phone" which of course isn't true. However, she brings her whole damn computer and works during games. Lol!

I have never in my life witnessed a person trying to bring another person down the way she wants to bring down my husband. She's so damn jealous she can't even get a handle on her life.
Why does she want his attention so badly? She hates him. She cheated on him. She left. What is wrong wyth her?

Seeyounever's idea is a good

Seeyounever's idea is a good one - he should sit with the parent of another kid, or close by anyway - she is less likely to act out if she knows someone else will see it. So he should sit in the middle of a crowd of people rather than away from them.

After all our drama was over, I realized that BM really was deep down very insecure and terrified about losing SS to DH. She projected her own efforts to alienate and her poor parenting onto DH. She also had a HUGE narcissistic injury that DH was happy with me. It really doesn't matter whether these personality disordered women leave or are left, they still want control over the ex and kids because loss of control terrifies them.

They also are great at projecting their own flaws onto others. That's why she accuses him of being on his phone when she is the one doing that.

I agree with the therapist - she's sick and will act sick. Stop expecting otherwise. We call BM "pew" (ie psycho ex-wife), and our saying is: "Pew's gonna be pewish". Just expect it. Stop being so shocked and appalled by it.

I've been following your

I've been following your posts for awhile. My SD is grown and married now. Was in her life since she was 3. Our BM is so similar to yours. She cheated multiple times and started divorce proceedings then would stop. Finally he had enough. Divorced. Met me. And I swear we lived this same life for 15 years. She is diagnosed with a personality disorder. Your BM sounds very similar. These women cheat and leave their husbands. But when the men move on they feel territorial and feel they have lost control. Our BM would cheat and come back over and over and my DH accepted it. He didn't want to be divorced. Finally she cheated with his best friend and he had enough. She thought she could just waltz in and out whenever she wanted especially after having SD.

SD was used as a weapon for all those years. There is no winning or trying to understand why a woman like that acts this way. Every person me or my DH met that had already met her already and this pre conceived notion that he was a deadbeat lousy dad and I broke up their marriage. Not true at all. Her cheating was out in the open for years. My DH was an idiot and was afraid to divorce. Tbh she still does it. Has tried with my family and his. She turned his family against us because we decided to move a couple of hours away after years of this stress. We moved away because We couldn't take the constant harassment. To this day when I hear BM voice or see her picture i get nervous and stressed. Moving was the only thing that cut everything down 50%. But of course she used that to her advantage and said DH abandoned SD who was a teenager at that time and was down to coming over once a month before we moved because she had better things to do with BM. We wound up seeing SD more overnights when we moved than when we lived 10 mins away. BM couldn't interfere and it killed her to have SD enjoy her time here. And she did enjoy her time with us as soon as her mother wasn't able to interfere.

Anyway SD wound up not speaking to any of us for years and has just started coming around. At 26 years old. I don't trust her and I never will. She is a clone of her mother. My DH completely lost her for about 5 years and now she's back. However he is still a distant third after BM and whoever her flavor of the month is.

BM used to pull the same crap. All the fake concern when she was with us that something was wrong. All the little mommy group things where we were looked at like we were a plague. She still tries after all these years to infiltrate parts of our life. I'm telling you this because these kids are in the middle and they will first and foremost try to please their mothers. And right when you think you're in the home stretch it all starts over again when they get married and have kids. the kids aren't allowed to love their dad or you at this point if they want to please their mother.

Your DH has to be prepared that he may lose his kids for awhile since she is so relentless. Even if they don't feel their mother is 100% right they're the ones that have To live and deal with her. My SD wasn't allowed to speak my name in her house and if SD had fun somewhere BM would take her to the same place or somewhere better and buy her whatever she wanted to top us. And trash talk us the whole time. To this day SD defends her mother and calls the most stressful and horrible time in my life "all that nonsense " back then. Downplays it.

Court was a joke. We lost every time. Lawyer would say one thing and the opposite happened and he told us to give in. After spending thousands. She played the poor BM in court. We paid more. I hope you figure out something to help you. I can hear the distress in your posts and remember feeling that way. I had 2 babies with my DH which amped everything up even more. At least you're not dealing with that as of now. I just wanted you to hear from someone who lived this type of dysfunction for decades. Good luck and try to gray rock her. I know it's easier said than done.

Our BM used to do similar

Our BM used to do similar stuff. Not so much anymore, although she still tries. Thank God we live long distance. Our BM hates DH. She left him and is now with a woman so it's not like she wants him back. She is just worried that SS will love DH more than her a leave her. She also hates that DH is happy with me and that we are building a life together. BM is a miserable person and wants everyone else to be miserable too.

This is going to continue until your skids are 18 and even after into adulthood. I want to say implememting strong boundaries will help, like they did with our BM, but yours may be too crazy to respect them. Your DH needs to figure out how much he is willing to take and not cross that line. This woman is ruining your life on a daily basis, in person, via email, text, etc. Her harassment is relentless. When the kids turn 18, you set that boundary of no more communication with BM. You block her on everything. If she sends a letter, you mail it back "return to sender" and you and DH take an expensive long vacation to celebrate the end of BM's reign and a BMless future.

I agree with Tog. You need a shark attorney, not this idiot who wants you to "play nice" and "be flexible." Our BM showed up to the first court hearing, mind you, we served her, trying to get the motion dropped. She felt that DH had no case against her and that she could just wave her hand and it would be dismissed. The judge refused saying that there was a strong case to be heard. BM ran out of that courtroom screaming and crying because she didn't get her way. Even though court didn't grant us more visitation, our attorney attacked BM through court documents and motions. He tried to demonstrate PAS, harassment, and emotional abuse toward DH. Just by calling it like it is, BM backed off, fearing more allegations. Our attorney knew how to put a cap on BM. Now, we receive emails from BM every few weeks instead of daily and only see her at pick ups and drop offs which now occur away from our home. DH ignores emails that don't require a response and even if she sends another demanding a response, continuing to ignore usually sends her a strong message and she gives up. I don't think any of that would have happened if our attorney didn't call it like it is. No "play nice," only direct attacks and sticking to the CO.

Our BM still tries to pull stuff occasionally, but DH and I are ready to be done with her. It will always be something because these BMs are miserable people. If she escalates back to her old ways, we will assess and determine what we need to do for our family and to maintain our sanity and peace. If that means less or no visitation, so be it. We are done playing her game and honestly, making her feel irrelevant in our life and taking away her control is the biggest slap in the face you can give.

Yep. I've said before that SS

Yep. I've said before that SS told us it made BM furious when DH ignored her. Thanks, SS! She is totally irrelevant now that SS is an adult and child support has stopped. She tried asking DH to pay for something last year, sent two sickly sweet emails, got ignored, and hasn't been heard from since.

I can't wait for the day!

Your DH has to prepare for

Your DH has to prepare for the day now with good boundaries or she will keep interfering even when they are adults. Many many stories about that on here. BM here only leaves us alone because DH has iron clad boundaries. Not one red cent above what he legally owed has ever been given to SS or BM in the 11 years I've been with him.

Agreed! He's doing his best

Agreed! He's doing his best with what we have. They have a temporary CO with not much in there. So, lots of room open for her to slither her way in. Also, he's listening to his attorneys and they are stating to "play nice" which I don't agree with. She is a terrorist. You can't play nice with a terrorist. So, we need to wait to get to court and ask for VERY TIGHT restrictions on what she can and can't do.

Does anyone think I can get a

Does anyone think I can get a restraining order on her or do a cease and desist order? She says I don't protect the kids and that I left their youngest alone. If DH wants to allow her to walk all over him his attorneys think it's just fine that she makes false accusations constantly that's up to him but I'll be DAMNED if this b--ch thinks she's going to pull my name through the mud and accuse me of neglect. I want to bring her to her knees! None of this play nice crap. What can I do?

Isn't the youngest old enough

Isn't the youngest old enough to be alone?

My guess is that this is projection. That BM is the one dropping him off at practice and leaving.

Yes. He's 11. She leaves him

Yes. He's 11. She leaves him alone all the time to go to work. All.the.time.

Right, so she's projecting.

Right, so she's projecting. The response to the silly contempt petition should be that - BM leaves him alone all day to go to work, so what is the harm in you dropping him off alone at practice (when he wasn't alone, there was a coach there, I assume).

I would let this go and here

I would let this go and here is why. When my DH took BM to court, BM didn't go after DH, she went after me. Why you ask? Because she knew she couldn't get a rise out of DH. She had tried and failed so many times. So she thought by attacking me, it would provoke DH or get a rise out of me. She blamed me for everything in court, even going as far to say that "I couldn't get pregnant so I was using her son to fill that void and create a fake happy family" or that I was "trying to replace BM." DH and I hadn't even attempted to get pregnant. My SS loves to craft with me and I helped SS make a custom bag during our parenting time and BM tried to use that in court saying I forced an activity on SS that he didn't want to do and that because I made him a custom bag for his football stuff, it put her in an awkward position because other teammates wouldn't have one and she would have to explain why. Her argument made no sense and I stopped doing anything after that. If she was going to attack me over something as stupid as a bag, it's not worth it. The point is, we didn't give her the satisfaction of ruffling our feathers. Trust me, DH and I were livid, but we didn't let BM see that.

If you react, counter, or show that it bothers you, she will continue to attack you because she knows it's effective. The judge is not going to do anything to you, as you are irrelevant in this case and the judge tends to find BMs attacking SMs to be jealous. I would definitely disengage and make DH do all the heavy lifting when skids are around. No more taking skids to practice, doing pick ups/drop offs, etc. You can't be blamed if you aren't the one doing the work. And if she tries to say, "See, she gave up on my kids." It isnt your responsibility to do ANYTHING for those kids, so that's no problem.

She also attacked you because

She also attacked you because she was hoping to drive you away. I'm so grateful BM here didn't do that - she seemed to want me to like her? I used to have a weird feeling that she was jealous of the attention I gave DH and SS, don't know how to explain it. She told SS once that she just knew I wanted to get out of the car at a pick-up and pet her dog - she saw me open the door and put my foot out, but DH pulled me back in. What?! No way in hell. So bizarre. Better that than being targeted though.

Yup this too! Our BM wanted

Yup this too! Our BM hated that DH had found happiness with me, since you know, she thought she was God's gift to men and he could never do better. Plus, BM dated the teenager DH, not the man DH that I married, and I think she didn't like seeing him building a life, growing, maturing, and being successful. Our BM wanted me to leave DH and thought that attacking me would push me over the edge and lead to divorce. She even told the judge that DH and her "coparented so well together until I came along." No BM, DH allowed you to use and abuse him. I ended that.

At the end of the day, she wants DH to be miserable, so however she can achieve that, she will try. Stay strong and remain a united front. Remember, you and DH are on the same team, fighting for the same common goal. Don't let BM divide you two.

Thank you!

These BM's aren't wrong,

These BMs aren't wrong, their exes DO change when they get in a new relationship. They start setting boundaries, not handing money over for BM's whims, and often that is because the new partner pushes them to do that. They stop letting BM control everything and that's guaranteed to start drama with a personality disordered ex.

VERY TRUE! I mean we have

VERY TRUE! I mean we have always had a great coparenting relationship with my ex and went by the book wuth custody.. (split 50/50, every other holiday, state calculated CS) so it's not like there was anything unfair and I never asked for anything extra but I used to go in the house that he and I shared and when they bought their own house I never tried to enter. I waited in the driveway out of respect for his wife. I knew that he would have been uncomfortable otherwise. I also always respected his vacation time and only contacted the kids once a day or every other day. I only contact bu text when needed and not at dinner time or after 9pm (unless an emergency of course) Things like that but I'm also not a bitter petty insecure jealous person with a personality disorder. Heck DH and I have even went out for a drink with my ex and his wife. Years later we are all comfortable and I have asked to use their bathroom a couple of time (LOL) but at first? I let her lead.

Exactly. Healthy people

Exactly. Healthy people understand and adapt. Disordered people fight in court and alienate the kids and become even higher-conflict. They aren't able to see their own actions, only those of others, so it appears to them that everyone is "against them" when those natural changes happen.

Good point!

He needs to wear a recorder.

Record all of her shit. Including when he confronts her when she tries to take his kids off for talks on his time.

"No, this is my CO'd time. You will not interfere in my time. Please step away from me and my children or I will have to call the police on you and file repeated contempt motions for your invasion of my relationship with my children. Do you understand? Now... step away and leave us alone."

He needs to be calm, record every second of the events surrounding her crazy bullshit, confront her each and every time she plies her toxicity, and make sure that his children know that their mother is ill and he can no longer allow her to invade his life or his relationship with them.

Any time you are with him at the SS's games, be ready to video record her on your phone. If you have the resources, hire a PI to document her fruit loopy shit at random times but for sure at the kid's sports events.

IMHO the goal has to be to drive her into a rubber room and get her out of your life, your DH's life, your kid's lives and even your SS's lives as much as possible. If she won't get help, she must be eliminated as much as possible as a negative impact on the lives of the sane in this blended family nightmare.

He can't. Their CO states

He can't. Their CO states they can't have any confrontation in front of the kids. This is how she hit him for contempt. Literally telling her to stop interfering with his time. It's fucking crazy!

I don't consider what Rags

I don't consider what Rags suggested to be a confrontation -it was more a reminder of boundaries. If it's said politely and respectfully, of course.

Confrontation and

Confrontation and conversation are not the same thing. That is what the recordings are for. To show her overstepping and him being assertive yet reasonable. The more he does this, the odds of her glowing her stack increase.

Review the footage with your attorney before it goes to court but have it ready in the event she tries her usual court manipulations.

He/you need to script the flow of any related interface before it happens. Based on her established past behaviors you likely know how her crap will generally unfold so be ready. When she is goaded into losing her shit.... have the closing line ready. "What do you think you are doing? I have to take the boys away from this until you calm down." Then take the boys for lunch, etc.... and work out a drop off later.

Record it all, have your script ready and rehearsed, and stop letting her drive the sequence of events.

It is not easy, I know. However, if you and DH do not change how you are dealing with her crap, you are abdicating all control to her and you are continuously in reaction mode.

I highly recommend that you read Tsun Tsu - The Art of War.

The Internet Classics Archive | The Art of War by Sun Tzu (mit.edu)

This really is a war. Not a quick American style war. A long, protracted war that the person most committed to winning and with the most just cause will win. The best interests and protection of the SS's and defending DH's rights is the cause. By default, her insanity driven manipulation is not the just cause.

The victor is the the one who prepares and plans, executes the plan, and takes no prisoners. So to speak.

By now you and DH know the deadly ground to fight the seemingly infinite battles on so you can be ready. Be ready. Take her head.

Figuratively of course.

Delete duplicate

The difference between a good

The difference between a good attorney and a mediocre one cannot be overstated. BM is running your show - she throws her weight around, makes unilateral decisions, acts out and tries to provoke your H. An aggressive attorney would 1) scare her attorney by reputation alone, and 2) go after her and help shield your DH and you.

Remember, your BM doesn't want this fight to end. She likes toying with your H and isn't afraid of him. To be honest, he isn't up to her weight and never will be. Neither is his attorney. You need a bigger bully on your side. That's all these disordered people understand - a superior, relentless force that makes life difficult for them.

Your BM is so HC that odds are good one or more of the skids will PAS out over time, so your battle isn't just about the skids; it's about protecting your sanity and having peace in your life. The only way to do that is with rock hard rules that keep BM away from your DH, you, and your home.

You don't bring a pea shooter to a gun fight. Spend the money short term on the right pit bull attorney, or keep suffering and pay the weak attorney more over the long term.

^^^^^^Exactly this.

Though we never lost in the protracted 16+ year legal battle to protect my SS from the shallow and polluted end of his gene pool, it wasn't until we shifted to our ruthless shark go for their throats pit Bull attorney that we took the initiative away from them.

Our first attorney was extremely intelligent and did okay but she was more of a "let's just all get along" type where our Shark was a deliver on the expectations guy.

It is far cheaper to engage an expensive though effective attorney than it is to go with a cheap placating type.

^^^^^^Exactly this.

Our first attorney was extremely intelligent and did okay but she was more of a "let's just all get along" type where our Shark was a deliver on the expectations guy.

It is far cheaper to engage an expensive though effective attorney than it is to go with a cheap placating type.

Yup. I agree with all of this

Yup. I agree with all of this.

You are here

Following up with contempt charges..