Step Sons CAN Grow Up - Happigram
Well, today was a landmark day!
My husband and I have been struggling financially for years. Not *struggling* like can't eat but far less secure than I would like (and FAR less secure than I was when I was single). This past weekend we (cooperatively) decided that I was going to take over paying the bills. ALL of the bills. And, I would do it under the condition that he lives the way I do. Which is off an allowance. I take a couple hundred bucks every paycheck which I put into my checking account and everything else goes to bills, debt, or savings.
I was fortunate enough to have a couple REALLY bad bouts with money when I was in my early 20s when I signed up for credit cards on my college campus that I couldn't afford and once again in my early 30s when there was a mess up around my adjustable mortgage payment and a deficit of $4/month had me in foreclosure on my home because my mail hadn't been forwarded appropriately. Either which way, I am grateful for BOTH of these events because it put me in the mindset of never spending money that I don't a) have immediate cash in hand or b) know for a fact that I can pay on a credit card before the end of the pay period.
Fast forward 10 years you all can likely understand my discomfort (rage?) when the credit card that my husband and I opened up together to improve his credit and ONLY use for emergencies was maxed out at $18K when I hadn't used it ONCE. I paid it off out of my personal savings (we have joint savings and each have personal savings) because I didn't want to hinder his savings because he had just started to get in the habit of saving (he was 46 at the time, now 49). "Lesson learned" and "it won't happen again" and all that jazz. Then it happened again. This time he paid half to pay it back to $0 and I paid the other half (though maybe 25% were my charges).
A year later and here we are again which is why I put my foot down HARD this time. He's going to live on the same rules I do. In fact, because I make quite a bit more money, it should be even easier for him as he'll have an identical "allowance" for random luxuries (household bills are already paid 2:1 out of our joint account).
So, now that I own all the finances I started on Monday going through them with a fine tooth comb. And, expectedly, I found a number of items (his AND mine) that were auto-deducting from our accounts. I tightened down my gym membership because I was paying for features I wasn't using. Changed our credit card payments to make more sense (highest interest rate first, no more minimum payments where we were only paying interest, etc.) and a few other things.
During this journey I realized that my husband has been sending SS21 "snack packs" at college for who knows how long. Certainly a nice gesture (Freshman year maybe) but not acceptable (to me) on a credit card with 20% interest. Granted $35/month isn't going to make/break us... but doing the math there are a zillion other places that $35/m could go. Heck, give it to the kid, even... but the value of what was showing up in those *sexy* snack boxes was like $12. So, my argument (and it WAS an argument) was "Is the sexy packaging, and automated shipping REALLY worth $22/m? Because I imagine the kid would rather have the cash or the flexibility to spend it how he wants, don't you think?"
DH left for work in a huff. TOTALLY pissed off. Because "How dare I (he) want to be part of my kids life". I didn't get a word in after that.
I sent SS21 (who thankfully is now more financially responsible than his Dad) an email. And said, "Hey... I'm handling our household expenses now just to give your Dad a break" though I really wanted to say BECAUSE HE SUCKS AT IT "and I noticed your XYZ Snack Boxes are costing like $35/m. Would you rather have the cash? Because looking at the contents, it's like $12 worth of stuff. I can just automate that payment to your checking account. What do you think?"
Kid wrote back (and I paraphrase)... "Yeah... and I usually don't even eat everything that comes in them. I don't need the $35. Pay down bills or invest it. I'm not going to be disappointed to not get those things".
Five years ago no one could convince me that this EVER would have happened. Today I am doing my Snoopy dance!
I know, right? There is hope!
I know, right? There is hope!
I know, right? There is hope!
I know, right? There is hope!
He turned down the money? I'm
He turned down the money? I'm truly flabbergasted.
Isn't it wonderful when kids
Isn't it wonderful when kids mature! Too bad his Dad still hasn't.
I know this is about a good skid but I'm astounded that you paid off DHs debt not once but twice and still you thought he'd be good with a credit card!
The first time the horse kicks you it's an accident. The second time he meant to kick you!
I really don't think this is going to go well for you. Your husband is going to balk at not having money at his fingertips. Prepare for daily fights about this.
The King is dead... Long live
The King is dead... Long live the King!!!!! Woo hoo. It is always great when a kid turns out to be more responsible than their parent(s).
My kid has far more in the bank at nearly 25 than I did at 30. I am proud of him.
Hopefully your DH grows up and bit in a hurry and can appreciate that you are what is between him and living under the local highway overpass and can appreciate that his son is embarrassingly outperforming his father.... at least when it comes to money management.
Hi, all... thanks for all
Hi, all... thanks for all your comments. Since I'm usually out here bitching and moaning. I thought it might be nice to share some good news.
Notsobad, I don't dispute you... this is going to be very uncomfortable for both of us for a while. Heck, it was uncomfortable for me doing it by myself when I had no one to answer to but myself.
The first credit card run up was sheer stupidity on my part that he would only use it for emergencies. The second time I vowed (to myself) to watch it and I didn't do that as well as I should have. Doesn't make his running it up okay but the alternative to not paying it was more interest and no emergency card balance available for my use in an emergency as I usually only carry a debit card. You bet your bottom dollar he can't use it now.
He's grouchy. And, ticked off that he can't spend $15 out at lunch every day. That's freaking $300/month! Well, he CAN spend $15 out at lunch every day until the money runs out. We decided we'd rather have a few months of fairly extreme discomfort in paying this mess off (all further spending on credit cards has been temporarily halted with the credit card companies) and then get it to the degree of control that every other day isn't a screaming match around overdraft fees.
Once all this mess is paid off and "allowance" is increased to a very comfortable amount I'm hoping for the best. Fingers crossed.
I'm happy you've worked it
I'm happy you've worked it out and hopefully your marriage will come out the other side much stronger!
I was always better with money than exH, it got to the point where I took over all the finances because money was like water through his fingers. At the end of the month he was so upset that he'd worked so hard and we had nothing left or we were in the hole.
It was hell some months. He was a mechanic and his snapon tool guy would sell him stuff on credit. So at the end of the month he'd tell me that we had to pay him $200, ExH had promised it to him and he was a man of his word.
I said no. Visa is charging us 20% interest, he is charging us no interest. He's not getting paid till Visa is paid off. PERIOD!
Oh and stop buying TOOLS!!!!
In the end we worked it all out and he was happy because we had money in the bank, savings and owed nothing but our mortgage.
When the marriage broke up, not due to finances, he went deep into debt. Without me controlling the money he was right back to his old ways.
Yeah... it really is just SO
Yeah... it really is just SO crazy the crazy amount of debt that folks run up and are okay with. I know I'm far more analytical than my husband is and that's totally fine. Day dreaming and wild fantasies work for him and it doesn't often bother me that that works for him. Those things (looking inward) DO NOT work for me.
To me, finances are simple. Not fun. But simple. Numbers are numbers and math is math. There's no emotion in it at all for me. Math doesn't lie. Leaving money on the table makes me freaking CRAZY!!! He's 6 months into a new job and when I inquired about the balance of his company matched 401K (he hadn't signed up) he behaved like I asked him the exact measurements of his penis on a first date.
I am pleased that my SS is fiscally responsible. Though, just to prove I'm not an ETERNAL optimist... my husbands father lives in a trailer with roommates in his 70s. There's GOT to be something in the back of the kid's mind that murmuring "F***! If she doesn't take care of him I'm going to have to do it when my Dad is old and out of money. Maybe I'd better be nice!"
Me too! It's money, it comes
Me too!
It's money, it comes in, it goes out. My job is to keep more of what's coming in for us.
DH is okay with money, his concept is It's just money we'll make more, but I'm not going to throw what we have away.
My skids are good with money too. They've always had an allowance to live on and they've learned the value of money. My own bio, I'm not so sure. He's more like his father, my ex. If he has $10 he feels like he needs to spend it.
I hope that these last 4 years in Uni on his own has helped him learn how to budget himself.
Wow!!!! I can hardly believe
Wow!!!! I can hardly believe my eyes!
35 bucks a month doesn't sound like much but remind your husband it is over 400 bucks a year. Now that he might be able to envision a little better. That's a TV or a couple utility bills or a li'l weekend getaway or car payment or other bill.
Your DH is being a bit
Your DH is being a bit selfish and immature. Let him pull his tantrum and stand firm. You logically spelled out what it would take to get out of debt. He WILL see the benefits to your plan once he sees that it actually creates more money in his pocket in the long run.
Glad to see your SS is turning into a fine young man. Definitely show DH SS reply to your email.
Thanks, Sandye21... all the
Thanks, Sandye21... all the encouragement out here means so much!
Congrats on winning this
Congrats on winning this skirmish, but I don't think the war is over yet!
Your DH fundamentally has a much different view of money than you do, and while you have the capability and control over it - for now - don't expect the future to be smooth sailing.
Is it possible that you (maybe with SS's encouragement) can get DH into some financial counseling sessions? He needs to become educated to take the emotion and impulse out of money, and learn the basics.
He seems resistant to learning from you, and based on your comments about his reactions to your new financial path, he is bound to be brewing a healthy case of resentment - which you will increasingly become the target of.
Even if you become debt free and wind up with a nice chunk of change in the bank, he will be viewing that as something he can spend at some point. Money in his pocket seems to burn, and he will find lots of creative ways to spend it!
Hearing the message from a financial professional may make a difference to him, and he may be a more willing participant in your plan.
I'm happy for you! My SS
I'm happy for you! My SS would do the same thing but my entitled spoiled SD21 would do the opposite, in fact we've been in this same argument. It happened on our front porch! She threw her little hissy fit and I recorded it all. I'm hoping there's hope for this one but I doubt it! Congrats on your awesome email!
2Tired, I entirely agree. It
2Tired, I entirely agree. It certainly won't be smooth sailing though the first week hasn't been too bad. I'm not holding him back from spending money but insisting that we talk about spending. In which case if he wants to spend more than a few bucks I just say "that's fine if that's something that you want but that $XYZ number of dollars that we can't spend somewhere else. Where should we think about NOT spending if that is more important than the things that we have to pay now?"
I have mixed feelings about seeing a financial adviser for a couple of reasons though I am slowly getting over them and I think we will shortly go in that direction.
1) I know how to manage money. I'm NOT a natural but worked hard to get pretty good at it and it wasn't fun. I'm bitter that I have to spend what little free time I have sitting with a financial planner AGAIN 15 years later. I'm slowly getting over that but it's been hard.
2) DH takes the advice that he likes and punts on what he doesn't. For example... every financial planner we have talked to says "your kid has many more working years than you do... if you (he/we/whatever) are not out of debt except a mortgage and a car payment AND are really darn close to being pm a good path to retire" (he is 49 and has $1000 in retirement, literally) "there are other ways to fund your (entitled) kid's education". He paid cash the first two years and now they have joint loans... I get the pleasure of seeing the "the primary person on this loan hasn't paid so now it's on you, Dad" every month since they took out the loan. Anyway, DH disregards this because he doesn't want his kid to want for anything
3) My husband is still giving the kid an ALLOWANCE at 21yo when he (and as a result WE) are paying down boatload of his debt which we wouldn't have had the $2000/m for the first two years of college been paying living expenses and not racking up credit card debt.
Where my mind sits right now is that I'm more than willing to sit with a financial planner. He's suggested it and recommended a couple of them (both childhood friends... the friend part I'm not too happy about bc that's a business/pleasure boundary I don't like to cross).
I'd love to hear everyone's thoughts on how to position that going in as "I'm willing to meet/trust/turn over our finances to someone we both like" granted it doesn't run up far MORE bills that we are trying to pay down "as long as you TAKE the advice that they give us" without him whining like a toddler when it's suggested that his 21yo kid should have launched already.
The kid's no idiot. If DH exacerbates me to the point of bailing someone is going to have to take care of him when he gets older. And, none of his siblings or remaining parent have the funds (or willingness frankly because so many past "loans" have remain unpaid) to do so. Kid's gotta be thinking "Damn, I may get stuck with that or my Dad may be living out of his car. Oh, wait. My Dad gave ME (SS) his car. Now what am I going to do"?