Needy adults with good jobs

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I married my husband almost a year ago. He has five children, all adults, ranging from 20-30. We were only together about a year and a half before being married, and in that time the kids were basically just voices on the other end of the phone and pretty much non existent. I married him bc I of course love him, but the reason I gave in was that he insisted it was a sin to live together without being married. We were both alcoholics when we were first together, and got sober together about four months after meeting. The kids lived in FL, we live in OK, and while we were struggling they did not come around. Ever since he has gotten better and has started supporting us in a comfortable lifestyle, they have one by one moved away from their mom and near their dad. They literally moved STATES away, and with no reason at all. They had not lived in Oklahoma for over six years. They now, however, are constantly in need of money even though they all have good jobs. If they desire something they can’t afford, they get it knowing daddy will step in and pay their rent. Two of them work with their dad at his car lot. One does not come in unless she feels up to it, and when she is there she has a terrible attitude. The other one is an alcoholic and can’t really do his job, but his dad wont let him go. I had to live with his other son in a one bedroom apartment for four months, and I refuse to live with any of them again. They are around all the time, they always have drama they need daddy to fix. GROWN ADULTS. Bc of their need for money we cannot save and are always on the brink of not being able to pay our bills. If I mention the kids he gets super defensive and protective as if they are ten years old. All I say is that he should let them grow up and depend upon themselves, learn good spending practices, and separate from their dad just a bit. At least recognize me as an important and permanent fixture in their fathers life. They treat me ok, some better than others, and the few who don’t like me don’t like me bc their dad tells them about my discomfort with them always being in need and right on top of us. This being our first year of marriage, it has been challenging. All I want is for the kids to grow up and live normal lives so that we can live safely and comfortably without getting negative in the bank account every month. I’m not sure how to handle it. I thought about counseling but I don’t think my husband would go easily. I’m just so tired of it, I’m 33 and don’t have my own kids bc I didn’t want the burden. Now I have five!! The youngest three make snarky remarks about money and are often obviously annoyed that I want to have them move along. I know he wants to have a relationship with his kids, they all grew up together, and that is great! But in adulthood, with their dad having a new wife, I would think they’d want their own lives too. They had done it the previous six years. Even my husband admits having them around us like having a leaking water bucket. It is just constantly draining resources. How do I get this subject to be talked about mindfully, while preserving (and hopefully a growing) a good relationship with the kids. I’m really trying here! Any advice would help. Thanks!!

Welcome to the site!

Well done on both of you successfully addressing your drinking. What you are aiming to do, ie tackle the situation while preserving a good relationship with your SKIDs, is probably not possible. They seemed to appear like magic when their Dad became exploitable again. This does not suggest they are mature adults at all.

Personally, if any man had said to me it was "a sin to live together without being married" - you would not have seen me for dust. Why did you go along with this hogwash? If you are going to achieve anything in this situation, you need to start having your own boundaries and get them respected. Why in heaven's name is he tattling to his kids about your attitudes on things? This is a BIG no no. I think unless the two of you can get on the same page with regards to a lot of things, then maybe life for you in this dysfunctional crew is always going to be frustrating and stressful.

Sin

Honestly, I felt very offended by him telling me we were living in sin. However I always believed marriage was going to happen. I reasoned that it would make him feel better and it was going to happen eventually. I don’t regret it, divorce bc of these SKIDS is not even on the table for me. Not saying it will never happen, I just don’t want to plant that seed. I have mulled over it for months now, and I also have found there is no way to address what they have done and are doing without everything combusting. You are absolutely right about not being able to preserve a good relationship. Him talking to his kids about what we discuss is crossing a line too, and I have told him that. I’m not sure if he has respected that or not. I am usually a confident person with shy tendencies but I am honestly so afraid of not having a decent relationship with them. It has made it hard to put my foot down with the nasty comments and metaphorical side eyes. I often feel my only option is to just keep quiet about these things and accept them for what they are, and hoping they will grow out of it.

Little background I think I should add- My last relationship was absolutely torn apart bc of his three daughters. I think this might be why I am so worried about our relationship now. I can see resemblances.

I can understand your fear

I can understand your fear (especially in the light of your past relationship which ended) but being afraid is just about the worst attitude from which to be calm and assertive about your reasonable rights and expectations in your current partnership. I speak from personal experience as in the past, I stayed in an abusive marriage for 24 yrs when I should have left years before. The reason I stayed was solely out of fear of the unknown and being alone.

Congrats on your sobriety.

You seem to be blaming the wrong person - the people catching the water from the leaky bucket aren't to blame, the hole in the bucket is. The skids won't stop asking for money until they stop getting it in response, and your DH can stop the flow right now.

You can handle it by separating funds so it isn't your money going to the skids, but most likely, that will just mean he doesn't have enough money to pull his weight. So you have an honest conversation about how he plans to stop supporting his adult kids (without blaming it on you, as he has so far).

Honestly, this sounds like a hasty, shaky marriage to me.

If your husband is so

If your husband is so religious perhaps a priest/pastor could help you two with some marriage therapy. Maybe he would be more open to advice coming from a religous source?

Your husband is...

Codependent which is common in alcoholics, Andy more so in divorced fathers. The fact that he married you because living together is a sin is sad. He should have married you because he loved you. What were your marriage vows? The wife should come first, before adult children.

i am also learning the latter. It’s not easy when you see your husband putting ss first, siding with them, letting themselves be manipulated. I only see your problem getting worse. The fact that his kids moved out of state to be near him speaks volumes. They know they can guilt him in to helping them financially forever.

Interesting

Some of these comments are really useful but some of them are offensive. You don’t know any more than what I’ve told you and I can’t possibly explain every circumstance, so I guess that’s fine. I think I should def hold my husband more accountable, make sure he has got my back. I definitely have tip toed around the kids, apparently I definitely did not handle things the right way from the beginning. I understand how the marriage sounds shaky. But my husband essentially saved my life by being the only thing in ten years that was able to get me sober. And I believe a lot of it was him bringing prayer into my life, which I’m sure sounds hypo religious, but true. I’m not saying I have become a devout Christian but I do have more respect for the power of prayer and my husband holds a very important, special place in my heart. I can’t really explain what he did for me, but I am devoted to making this work bc of my deep and sincere love for him. As far as being a permanent fixture, I’m not sure why that was so bothersome, obviously I’d like them to recognize their dad got married so now he has a wife and that is the end of that. So if they have a problem with it, we need to hash it out now bc I’m not going away. It just may be that I need to stop worrying about what they think of me and address these issues. I have tried to find every way around it but it is clear what I need to do. Maybe you have advice as the best way to begin such an important conversation. Maybe you’ve had to do something similar at some point in your step experience?

I understand wanting to be

I understand wanting to be recognized as "permanent." You're newly married, you want to begin building a family, even with the skids, but you can't do that as long as everyone's still acting like you're an outsider who's eventually going away, or someone who can be circumvented because you hold secondary status.

I also had money boundary problems with SD and others in my husband's family. My husband was a pushover, so they all knew where to come for checks. He never said no.

But I did. It wasn't easy, but I kept pounding away these points to my husband so he'd see the money thing differently:

= Borrowing/lending is strictly an emergency situation, so if you're getting requests for money more often than emergencies normally occur, you're a chump to keep writing checks. You've sent the message that you never say "no," so every day is an emergency. When was the last time YOU borrowed a big chunk of money from someone? That's right -- you run your life so you don't have to borrow from anyone. Let others learn to do that too.

= If someone asks you for money, you have every reason to ask why they need it, when it will be repaid, and you are an idiot if you don't get them to sign a promissory note to legally bind them to repayment. If it's NOT an emergency, you should generally say "no" to loan or cash gift requests. If they need it for a car, let them buy a cheaper car. If they need it for food, buy them a gift card to a grocer. If they need it for surgery, absolutely give them the money. If they need it for a vacation, well, shit, so do you, so that would be a NO.

= Do you think the people you're handing out checks to will be there for you (and able to help) if YOU end up in financial straits? Of course not, because they are people who have no idea how to handle money. They will never be able to help you, and they have no intention of saving to pay you back. So stop throwing away money on these people and stop bailing them out or they will never become financially independent.

= And most importantly******Do you want to have to go to your kids someday when we're in financial trouble and ask them to bail you out? No, of course not. So we can't afford to hand out money whenever someone asks if we don't want to be in a position to have to borrow someday when we're tapped. The right thing to do for your kids, financially, is remain solvent so you never become a burden to them. The wrong thing to do is hand out money until you're broke and then have to tell your kids you need their help for your mortgage. You probably won't get it, because you've crippled your kids financially by spoiling them so they won't have it to give you, and on top of that, who are you to ask others for money when you didn't use the money you had wisely???

This last point was the one, I think, that made the most impact on my husband. Charity begins at home -- take care of yourself so your kids aren't stuck taking care of you. After I kept on my husband about this, he stopped giving money to SD. He stopped sending checks to his brother and loser friends too. He realized he wasn't so far from retirement, so now's the time to think seriously about every dime that goes out the door.

You have to make the argument that giving away your money now leaves you open to financial disaster later and if that happens, you will have to burden skids by borrowing from them, moving in with them, etc. The only way to make these dads change their ways is to make them see how what they're doing is negatively impacting their precious kids.

Make the point that, of course, his kids will inherit his money and things, but if you give it away too soon, it will backfire and it will all be gone before he's even dead. Then when he dies, the kids will inherit bills instead of hard cash.

These are practical money matters, Katoglow, and they'd all be true whether we're talking bio kids or step kids. Parents need to take care of themselves as they get older. Someday, his kids might have to say "no" to their own kids who are asking for more than is prudent to give them.

As for the shitty skid employees...that codependence was in place before you got there. It would be difficult to change it now, and if you do, the skids will never let you forget it. Let your husband handle that mess for now and you chip away at the home front.

When I married my husband, he bought SD whatever gift she requested for holidays. It didn't matter how much it was, he footed the bill. I was surprised he hadn't set a limit for regular annual gifts for SD. What if she had asked for a house?

On top of that, there were occasional requests for big ticket items "just because." The final straw was when we were living abroad and SD asked for a last-minute plane ticket to see her MOTHER'S family over the holidays in a Gulf state (we live in the U.S., so the last-minute ticket was $2500). She didn't want a ticket to fly to see us -- she wanted $2500 to fly right over us to see her mother's extended family! Why didn't she ask her MOTHER for the plane ticket???

You know what's right, Katoglow. Be fair, be firm, and don't be a patsy. It doens't get any easier by giving in to them, so someone might as well bite the bullet now and set a new expectation.

oops

There are a ton of issues in

There are a ton of issues in your story and I imagine this is just the cliff notes.

You're 33 and his oldest is 30, basically you are w/in the age range of his children. Younger women often marry older men for comfort and stability yet fall into a pattern where he is treating you like a child rather than a spouse. Older men love having the beautiful young "child bride" but really hate it when she asserts herself as a grown woman and full marital partner. It sounds like he doesn't care about what you want or what is good for the marriage, only what serves him.

The kids have had a lifetime of dysfunction from their father and were likely not supported by him in their former years. Now Dad has gotten his life togehter and is able to be the father he never was. Dad is mending things the only way he knows how, by giving them money.

The kids didn't just move back by dad of their own accord. He likely made them promises of help and support. "Leave your mother, now I'll be the favorite parent who can buy your love." You may have not heard these conversations but I can guarantee you they happened.

don’t like me don’t like me bc their dad tells them about my discomfort with them always being in need and right on top of us.

The fact that he shared this with his kids shows his lack of maturity and emotional awareness. Instead of listening to you and protecting his marriage he shared a private conversation with his kids and left you wide open to their critism.

This situation is messy, enmeshed, and layered with decades of alcoholism, abandoment, and emotional absence from your DH as a father to his children. *Shockingly,* his children are also alcoholic and co-dependant. He's going to do what he wants because he thought he married a malleable younger woman, plus he's traded one addiction for another.

There is no easy fix. All I can say is create boundaries around your marriage and your personal finances.

Lots of wisdom in marblefawn

Lots of wisdom in marblefawn's post.

Alcoholism and addiction are referred to as a family disease, and for good reason. While your H has stopped drinking, it seems he still has a lot of work to do on himself and his relationships with his adult children. They have ALL been affected. The path to healing and transitioning those relationships to one of mutual adults is complicated, and he likely needs professional help to guide him.

Parenting out of guilt is a common side effect of divorce; add in addiction and you've got a Dad ripe for exploitation. He is doing his adult children no favors by enabling. I suggest you start marriage counseling, but with a counselor specializing in addiction. Please be careful to couch it in terms of wanting to continue to work on your sobriety journey together, and wanting to strengthen your relationship. When the topic of his kids comes up, speak from a place of wanting to help these adults. Use words like guide, encourage, lead, and emphasize that you want to see them succeed in life.

Also, please do some reading on Karpman's Drama Triange. I learned about it here on ST, and it has helped me sooo much. Basically, your H is primed to be a rescuer. You need to position yourself in a sympathetic light (victim) rather than the evil SM (persecutor). Also cut yourself some slack, and keep in mind these skids are just adults who happen to be related to your H. Females are programmed to be more relational and place high value on social success, but not all adults like each other and that is perfectly okay.

Lastly, about your finances. Can you give more info as to how money is handled in your marriage? Who handles the bills? If you currently pool income, consider separating finances and splitting expenses. And start finding ways to make your H feel the consequences of being financially irresponsible. Let the cable or lights get disconnected. Cut out luxury items he enjoys, and serve cheap, repetitive meals. (My H loves a certain fabric softener and an expensive scotch) Forego concerts, vacations, etc, saying you can't afford it. If/when he complains, remember to position yourself in a sympathetic light. "Baby, I know. I'm so stressed and worried about our being broke. You must be, too.)

MONEY :(

Money is a very delicate subject in my house and in my marriage. He holds the antiquated belief that the man should support his wife, and honestly if I had to get a job and that was outside the home he would not be happy about it. So he tries to cover the bills and I often cover what he has lost from his kids. My money typically goes to my needs that I don’t ask him to cover bc he takes care of bills. It goes into savings, which always ends up getting drained by the time we need anything extra, like car tires. He hates when I mention getting low on money, money going to kids, not being able to go on vacation, etc. When I mention money he basically throws a fit about me mentioning it and then shuts down a couple days. He makes a lot of cash on down payments, and if I don’t ask for any I don’t know about it. I only know about how much of it goes to the kids bc they often have to come pick it up, or he offers to buy their months groceries, or he needs a check to pay a car/phone/rent payment that’s not ours. Up until recently I didn’t know how to address these things and I was sort of scared to bc of the anger. Obviously I have realized this is not healthy and have since been visiting this forum to help get answers and suggestions. I figured we were going through some hard times and it would get easier and less stressful, but once again the kids keep us from ever getting there. The more we get the more they need, and my husband will simultaneously try to avoid telling me about it while also having things happen like them coming to the house and picking the money up. There is always a plan in place about getting repayed for big items like car payments, but I am never privy to it actually happening. I do realize how dysfunctional this is. That is why I need advice. I love this man and honestly I believed his kids and I would be ok once things settled. It’s just gone on too long. He calls it our money but if it gets low he doesn’t want to hear about it. It’s obviously concerning that he can “scare” me enough to not want to bring up the subject. I don’t mean he is threatening or abusive, I just do not like confrontation and try to avoid it. I think I’ve felt like as a step I should not be too authoritative, but the situation calls for it and it am seeing that. Seems to me I need to garner more respect and buck up to face these contentious issues with confidence.

What kind of half-assed

What kind of half-assed business is this guy running?!?

Since your H wants to be in control of the finances but doesn't want to be transparent about the cash he tosses around, you really should stop pooling your money with his to be squandered. Open some accounts of your own (there are some online institutions that offer better rates and discretion), and squirrel every penny away. Also, who cares if he doesnt want you working outside the home?? Still Learning hit the nail on the head with her comments. You are responsible for yourself, and you can already see that your H's money habits are not sustainable. So, hide your money. Let him dig a hole trying to assuage his guilt, and don't bail him out. He may not be drinking, but he's still sick and you cannot rely on him to know what's best.