In my Dh case, No. PA started when my SD was around 6 or 7 and she's now 24 and is worse. She even tried to brainwash my Ysd21 to no avail and made a comment to our Ods18 about my Dh and he shut her down. We can't even all get together and have a good time when Osd is around (unless we completely ignore her) because she will try to create a problem when there's none. My Dh had to put his foot down with her and tell her she is not welcome to visit our home if she can't behave. So now, she's"uncomfortable" coming to our home.

If you give your Skid an audience she will entertain.

In our case, SD alienated herself from us. Her mother did nothing for 13 years; not even when mother was informed that her child attempted suicide.

I contacted BM and her husband when SD was set to graduate and guilted them into coming.

She went to visit them and they threw her out on the street in Corpus Christi. SD told me that her stepfather was a creeper, obsessed with her body.

Where is she now? With them. She told horrible lies about our entire family to anyone who would listen.

I say good riddance to trash.

Old enough to think for themselves- when does that happen? All my skids are in their 30 and 40s and they are still little snowflakes don't you know?

My ss was a middle aged 350+lbs little dust bunny baby boy, he was so cute that his df would always relate the story of how all the other babies in the little baskets were so cute and then the nurse held his up and he looked just like a toad. aHis df felt such a need to protect him from me, especially when he blocked my way, shunned me and would raise his voice to me. Even though I cooked he could not bring himself to eat the shrimp or steaks I prepared. But let his df give a bowl of unwashed salad with raw hotdogs chopped into pieces on it and he would chomp it right down and ask for seconds. The a*s wipe.

Sorry, long! We all know parenteral alienation syndrome (PAS) is a real phenomenon, there is no doubt about that. Experts agree.

The problem is, even when SKs are adults, very few realize this is the true source of their hatred and anger or issues with bio-dad and his wife. SKs can be intelligent, well educated, professional, etc., and yet have no clue that the reason they think bio-dad is a deadbeat dad is primarily due to bio-mom or other relatives interpreting events and putting the idea in their head to begin with. Sure, bio-dad probably wasn’t perfect, but chances are, neither was bio-mom.

Bio-dads almost get as bad of a rap as SMs. Bio-dads usually lose their home as well as custody of their children. They may only see their children EOWE and there are very few support groups for divorced dads and there is very little recognition of this huge adjustment that they are expected to be able to make somehow flawlessly. To top it off, some bio-dads have to contend with “new dad” moving in with their children and ex- in a very short period of time.

Yeah, there are some crappy bio-dads and there are some crappy SMs, but there are also some crappy BMs. BM, being usually the primary custodial parent, is in a position to literally mold how the children view their father for years to come. Some try to be fair, stay out of it. Many don’t. Many may not even realize what they are doing. I’ve heard some divorced moms go and on about how they hate it when the children are put in the middle, and then later I’ve heard them turn around and talk about their lazy, good for nothing ex- (bio-dad) in front of the children.

You’d think that once these SKs become adults that somehow they’d be able to rationalize and see thru some of this. Sounds logical, and some do. But many do not. It has been way too ingrained in their psyche. No matter what they reality may be, BM is a heroine and bio-dad is worthless, and this is pretty much the way society as a whole paints the picture for them too.

So, what do you do when the children are adults and are pretty much 100% convinced that bio-dad is a deadbeat dad, again, regardless of the reality? Unfortunately, there is not much. I know my husband, like many, tried his best, and even tried to speak with his children once they were adults and explain things from his side a little more. Don’t know if it helped or not. He feels closer to his daughter now, but not so close to his son. He has regrets. He wishes he would have been more proactive earlier in promoting himself as dad (and me as his wife) vs. waiting until the kids were old enough to understand. By that time, it was way too late.

The sad answer to the above question is that there is not much you can do. You can try to explain things more, you can try to become more involved, you can try a lot of things, but at the end of the day, none of it may work, or you may have to wait years (and I mean years) to finally get a flicker. This is where bio-dad and SMs often disagree. Dad wants to hang in there for years and years and pander to his adult SKs, in some cases enabling their bad behavior, hoping one day he’ll finally get his payback. SMs, not so much. They are far less likely than dad to get any acceptance in a PAS situation. Not putting any judgement on how long anyone should hang in there waiting for adult kids to turn around, but for SM, this may be where disengagement at some level comes into play. After so many years she just can't take it any more. To her, it is too obvious and too sad.

Well, my SD26 is not mature, nor does she think for herself, so it's not any better in our case. She's very wishy washy, one day admitting that BM purposely drove a wedge between them, then when she's mad at DH, telling him that he was never there for her.

It hurts DH but he is very close to just being done with her altogether. She's never going to crawl out of BM's ass.

My DH caused his own PA. He betrayed me to SD56 and SD thought she had to write me a two page hate email (3+ years ago) to let me know that "she knew". When SD56 wrote this bs to me, I printed it out and showed it to DH and told him to nip it and "no more social media from any of his grown kids". I blocked SD and her immediate family and friends from all my social media.

Well, after the email, DH and I worked things out; now SD56 is on the outside looking in; of course it's all my (SM) fault. DH did it to himself and his princess. SD also says "I don't feel comfortable coming to your house. Sammi makes me feel uncomfortable." I've NEVER said a word to this woman, now 37 years. I disengaged without a word, eight years ago.

DH doesn't offer them even a cold drink when they visit him, doesn't invite them to our home, just ignores them and then I'm to blame. DH feels, as their Father, he is entitled to their attention and I should fix it all. NOT!

So, to answer your question, PA comes in all types of forms and circumstances. It is DH and SD's problem, I've never made it mine, except to set boundaries with DH and my own home. I don't mind being on the "blame" end of it all. I have peace and DH and SD are their own worst enemies to this day.

I just sit back enjoy the circus. They never stop and it creates so much hate and discontent within their own family. This woman is so toxic; but, with that said, I do not let them effect me, now that I have let it go, and moved on with my life.

PA came for me when I married at age 18, 54 years ago. I had two SM's in my lifetime and never had a problem with either one of these women. They were my Father's choice and I worried about my own life and family. As long as my Father was happy, I was happy.

It's yo-yo'd for my DH with the girls.

When he and BioHo split up (for the 97th time), the girls absolutely HATED DH. 'Ho was obviously PAS'ing them and making DH the bad guy. I mean, c'mon, what man wants to stay with a woman who goes through life with her legs spread like a gymnast doing the splits?

A few years ago, the girls hated BioHo. If they didn't do what she said, date who SHE wanted them to date, worship the ground upon which 'Ho fornicated, they were BAD DAUGHTERS. At that time, they just luuuuurrrvvved DH.

Today (and for the past year or so), the girls are back in love with 'Ho. However, they have transferred their hatred to ME and simply ignore DH (unless they want $$$$$).

I suppose that, one of these days, the girls will be back to hating 'Ho. Whatever. They are ridiculous little mean girl drama queens and not worth the scum in a sewer.

The boys have always adored DH and can't stand 'Ho. PrincASS is now in the military and PigPen will likely run away from home as soon as he gets his driving license.

I never spoke a bad word against my kids' father to them. Ever.

I would tell HIM that the kids need more than him just being "around" playing WoW on his computer... he said they were fine, their relationship was good, and that I should be more concerned about the kids saying to him that I was mean.

Why was I mean? Because they had chores, were held accountable for their actions, were disciplines, etc.... whereas it was a free for all at his place.

Fast forward 5ish years... the kids have come to their own conclusions that all dad does is play on his computer...never does anything with them... and that even if they have somewhat harsh punishments at my place, they're also given more freedom in exchange for their responsibilities. We enforce the 50/50 and force the kids to go back and forth each week... but if you ask any of my kids, hands down they prefer it at our place. They're pretty much on their own at dad's... and the fun aspect of that has worn off. They say they like the food better... they say it's cleaner... they say I help with homework... we have random family outings or activities... they basically sit around on their phones at dad's, waiting for frozen chicken fingers and fries they had to put in the over themselves.

Meh. Not a bad guy, just... self-absorbed, I guess. The kids figured out pretty quick that him joining his raid was more important to him than feeding them, or even knowing where they were.... they could go to the park and be gone 2 hours before he'd even realize they were gone.

Superstepper I am sure the intent of the persons who say, "oh when they grow up they will come around" is pure. The reality is it unlikely WHEN true pathogenic parenting is present.

The answer is no. Not until the abused child (who is now an adult in your case), and is completely away from the abuser and all persons enmeshed as allies with the abuser.

Allies of abuser could be friends, Grandparents, in-laws, extended family, neighbors, church folk. Anyone that colluded with the all wonderful parent.

I recommend that you read this.

https://drcraigchildressblog.com/2014/07/29/stark-reality/

AB/PA is psychological child abuse AND should be charged as a crime.

I think it depends on how thoughtful and observant the Skid is. I have many friends who realized what the real situation was when they were adults, even if there was no PA involved.

I wish all divorced kids would have to go to some sort of counseling where they learned that relationship breakdowns are caused by two people and that they should learn to believe what they experience from each parent, not what they are told about that parent by other people.

I was watching the new Steven Spielberg documentary and he admitted that he hated his dad and saw him as being at fault for the divorce, even though his mother married his father's best friend shortly after the divorce. They even interviewed his father and his father said "I didn't say anything to him because I didn't want to make his mother look bad." Spielberg said he was terrible to his dad and didn't realize until he was an adult that what he thought about the whole thing was not true. Of course, didn't seem like he had been PA'd specifically, but his mother never stepped in and corrected his incorrect view that his father abandoned them. As someone married to a divorced dad, it made me really sad to see how mean he was to his father.

I think mothers who resort of PA, usually use the same tactics on other people, and observant kids will reach a point where they realize their mother is a bit crazy, which may help them to see the light about some of the things that were said. But some people are just not introspective enough to do that.

Another thing from Dr. Childress recently is how Alienators exploit challenges between child and target parent any way they can and to whom EVER they can.

Where as you and I, would back UP our ex even IF we had to quickly turn around, roll our eyes, pretending to stick our fingers in our mouths to gag, DOING what ever so that our kids WOULD NOT see that behavior in us.

When DH and I got married SD was in her late teens. She was nice to me before the wedding, turned into nasty the day of. She continued to get worse. Maybe she was hoping her parents would get back together. I bent over backwards for 20 years to gain her approval - didn't work.

Like Sammi, a lot of the problem was that DH did not have my back and even threw me under the bus several times. We did not come across to SD as a united couple. As a result, DH can see her just about whenever he wants- just not in our home. There are probably people who think I am a b#tch. I don't care. If DH wants to fix the situation he will have to be the one to take steps to resolve it. No pity for self-inflicted wounds.

" BM is a heroine and bio-dad is worthless, and this is pretty much the way society as a whole paints the picture for them too."

***THIS***

SS18 PASed out of our lives three years ago. We haven't heard a word from him since, and don't expect to any time soon. MAYBE when he's much older, having a kid of his own. MAYBE. BM's poison runs so deep in his veins I don't think he'll ever be rid of it, honestly. And this is a kid who admitted to us that his mother is mentally ill and emotionally abusive. Still...Mom is Mom, and when she threatens to withdraw her love if you don't disown your father, and you're very enmeshed with Mom, you take Mom's side.

once the skids grew up the pas ended. that is because bm kicked the skids out one by one as they turned 18.

they all came running to daddieeeee because he was the one with the open wallet and the guilty conscience. now they all butter him up and ki$$ his a$$ so they can get money and gifts.

Sugarspice the sad thing is they think you do not see them conning their dh for dollars, and even if they know you do see them they do not care because they know dh will not believe you and will deny that they are doing that.

There was a time where 350lb dust bunny wanted a new car as it was hard for him into his mitsubishi spyder he had just bought a year ago. He would come into our home holding his arm up in the air and keep it that way by having it rest on tv tray, still holding it up. When ex would go to the bathroom he would put it down and let it rest. As soon as dh came out of the bathroom up it went. The entire time complaining how much his arm hurt making it impossible to get into his car. Fortunately ex did not cave him. He did this in front of me and I was insulted that he had such low regard for my presence as ex wife. It also angered that if I told ex I know that he would deny it.

When I told ex about his ss drinking a lo ,ex of course denied it and made excuses, thought I was picking on his baby, turns out that ss was a full blown alcoholic. One year later ss was in and out of rehab for about 2 years. He switched to smoking pot, this time I just kept my mouth shut.