When kids don't want to go for visitation
Quick background. Bitter exw does everything to marginalize Dad. Enforcing that her parents have more say in children's lives than Dad. Fights Dad on visitation, tried for supervised visitation, makes up stuff to prevent visitation in courts, etc. But there is no evidence of BLATANT comments like, "Your dad sucks," etc. Kids are Boy12, Girl9, Girl7.
12 and 7 are saying they don't want to go with Dad for weekday visitation. 12 wants to hang out with friends in apartment complex (Dad knew this day was coming, but hoped it would be later). 7 wants to watch tv...which apparently she does all.the.time at BM's.
My advice to Dad was to just pick up the Girl9, then. The 12 had a legitimate, age appropriate desire to play with friends rather than go hang out with Dad and sisters. The 7 would realize after 5 mins, "OMG he left me! I would rather go have fun with Daddy than watch these shows..." Instead, what 7 is making him do every time is PROVE how much he loves her by making him fight for her company. 7 already has issues like wetting herself and acting like a baby (and REALLY being treated like a baby by mom). It's also our theory that bc 7 looks/acts like BM, she is being favored by BM.
What do you think he should do? Make the kids go, or take the one(s) who want to go? This does not affect me in the least, as I don't see them during these visits. I have just seen what he is going through trying to get more time with them, and how they are treating him...
We had this problem too -
We had this problem too - actually is ongoing since end of February. BM got mad at me and so sent DH an email saying that visitation was permanently on hold (not bright since we still have that email for court). She then worked the skids up into a frenzy until they were telling DH that they were never coming over and wouldn't ever see him again if he didn't divorce me (believe it or not BM demanded that he divorce me too, lol). DH decided not to enforce visitation because they are 17 and 12 at my recommendation. In my opinion, they are trying to punish him and they have to know it can't work. Luckily for us, our house is big, beautiful, clean, and we have all kinds of fun toys. BM's house is small, filthy, and she is always screaming. Really, they are just punishing themselves, which they now realize and want to come back over this weekend after calling me all kinds of names. DH and I are in the middle of an amicable divorce (they don't know yet) and he is moving out shortly so I told him "NO WAY". They can stay and have fun with their skanky mother:)
My skids keep saying the
My skids keep saying the opposite - their dad doesn’t love them or care about them if he forces them to visit because if they visit, they have to give up things they want to do at home. You’re damned if you do, damned if you don’t.
My two SSs argue that if their dad makes them visit, then he doesn’t care about their friends, doesn’t care if they miss their friends’ birthday parties, sports, scouting events or taekwando. Then they blame their dad for not getting their badge or making the travel team or testing for their yellow belt or whatever and whine that he doesn’t care about what they care about because he makes them drive out to visit him.
There’s no winning ever allowed.
I may be hard-core here, but
I may be hard-core here, but my opinion is that if the kids are supposed to have visitation, then they have to go. This is a classic PAS tactic by BMs - to tell the dads that the kids don't want to go and want to be with their friends. Too bad.
My SO let his ex pull that crap and IMO it's taken a toll on the parent/kid relationship - even into adulthood. Because once the kid(s) does it they know they can do it again. What winds up happening is ever more dwindling time with the kids - until they don't come over at all or everyone gets so out of touch with each other, strangers basically, that the visits are strained and useless.
Yes, he gets EOW and Tues. 3
Yes, he gets EOW and Tues. 3 hours. See, I think that after one week they will realize their decision to not go was stupid. He would still show up to get them, I'm pretty sure the 9 will always want to go with him. But I agree, it can backfire.
Unfortunately, he is not the kind to say to bm, "Have the kids ready to go and turn off the tv before I get there." The bm gets off on 7 clinging to her, "I don't wanna go..." even though it's really bc she just wants to watch her cartoons. He also does not communicate with them on the phone during other days bc she never answers it. My ass would be documenting every time I called and couldn't get my kids on the phone. He's a pushover, and imo, deserves everything he's allowing her to get away with.
"He's a pushover, and imo,
"He's a pushover, and imo, deserves everything he's allowing her to get away with."
Which is ultimately losing his relationship with his kids. This needs to be pointed out to him very factually and in no uncertain terms. Have him do a search of parental alienation and see if it rings any bells for him.
Oh, he's very well versed in
Oh, he's very well versed in PAS as well as hostile-aggressive parenting. He just won't grow a pair and stand up to her. The things he has let her have control over just BAFFLE me. And then he complains. He says he has fought for his kids...no he hasn't. I tell him this, too. I don't mince words, I tell it how I see it. But he is still more concerned about pissing off the ex than he is me.
All that said, the court system is set up for men to lose out. I know it's an uphill battle. Gender bias is RAMPANT and family court hardly ever makes sense. The exw had him so beat down when I met him, I had to wake him up. Hellllloooooo! You are 50% their parent, too!!! It's very unattractive when men don't stand up for themselves...
My oldest boy succumed to his
My oldest boy succumed to his mothers exhortations that I was a bastard and at age 12 made that request even hiding behind his mother at the door. Not unusual behavoir as he was a Mama's boy. I grabbed him and dragged him and his mother (holding his other hand) over the front lawn to my car where she gave up for the moment. Next time he wasn't at the door and I wasn't going to charge in. Eventually I had to sue her in family court for contempt of the visitation order where she was threatened with jail.
At age 14 I told BM that he no longer had to visit.
I never saw him again until he was about age 25 when he finally realized who the real ogre was.
Unknowingly working on my side my second son never succumed to his mothers exhortations and visited me every opportunity he got. Carring back souvineers of places we visited (ghost towns in Nevada as an example). The older boy had to have seen what he was missing.
So my advise is to force visitation to age 14. Father doesn't have to prove child estrangement just criminal violation of the visitation order to get her out of his access to his kids.
I agree with other posters
I agree with other posters about enforcing visitation. That decision really shouldn't be placed in the hands of a 12 year old who later might feel guilty for not going, or hurt that Dad did something without him. They're really too young to make that choice.
Last summer BM would tell DH he couldn't pick us his 4 year old because the 4 year old had "plans." What plans does a freaking 4 year old have. SD is 5 now and just this weekend she's been acting like she doesn't want to go to her mom's. We're nipping that in the bud. When it's time to go see your parent you get your stuff and you go.
I asked my bf how he came to
I asked my bf how he came to know that boy12 and girl7 didn't want to go with him. 7 was clinging to mom, but boy12 came around the building with his friends, asking if he could stay and play with them.
So I said to him, it is bm's job to have all three kids ready when you arrive, (which he does EXACTLY on time.) 12 should have come in and cleaned up, 7 should have had tv turned off 5-10 mins before you arrived. "But there is nothing I can do about it." Yes, you can tell bm this, expect it, and accept nothing less. And then you tell your kids the same thing. "I make sure I get there on time, I expect you to be ready to walk out the door when you hear me knock."
At this point, if he's not going to stand up for himself, he's not allowed to complain to me! If you all knew the whole story and everything he has let her get away with....ugggghhhhh. It's so unattractive!