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Rights of BM after divorce

set1114's picture

What, if anything, can a BM do if she doesn't agree with her ex-husband moving on? Specifically, I've been dating a guy for 10 months and will be moving in at the end of the year. BM thinks we're damaging the girls by being together and repeatedly tells my partner that he's being selfish and not thinking of his kids. Can she legally do anything because she disagrees? We have so much ammo on her that it would be stupid for her to even try. 

SteppedOut's picture

She can't stop him from having a girlfriend. Sometimes there is a clause in the divorce decree that states something to the effect of a partner can't move in, unless married. 

Winterglow's picture

Then when she starts on about him being selfish and so on he should just hang up ... Every.Single.Time.

tog redux's picture

The most she can do is get a court order saying he can't live with or have someone spend the night if they aren't married.  And even that is a stretch, it's usually an agreed upon provision in the order, not something the judge orders.

So, essentially, nothing - except make your lives miserable and alienate the kids. 

set1114's picture

The funny thing is that she doesn't want the kids the 50% of the time she does have them. She frequently gives them to my partner because she has something going on. She not going to do anything where she has them more than she does. But you're right, she will certainly try to make us miserable. 

tog redux's picture

Don't bet on that. This type of mother goes one of two ways, sometimes alternating - they dump the kids on their ex or they keep them away entirely. Don't be surprised if your presence makes her take the second option. 

set1114's picture

Well she spent their entire marriage focused on her job, while my partner did everything, especially with the kids. I'd like to see her try to take them away when he's by far the superior parent. 

tog redux's picture

Same with my DH, and he too was the better parent.

We ended up not seeing SS for over three years. Don't underestimate this type, and don't trust the courts to not let it happen.

Lndsy747's picture

Agree with Tog. Don't underestimate what a scorned woman will do to hurt their ex. Hopefully she'll move on and get over it but I would expect her behavior to get a lot worse and try to "protect" the kids by not allowing them over once you move in.

strugglingSM's picture

In my case, DH was the primary parent when he and BM were married an BM was the primary breadwinner. After the divorce, BM insisted on retaining full custody, with DH having EOWE. She complained mercilessly about how she had to do everything and still does, but has always refused to discuss any changes to the custody arrangement. She just wants to use DH as her babysitter and personal assistant. 

In general, unless a BM can prove something is harmful to the children, she can't prevent her ex from moving on with life. 

Divorced adults have no say in what the other adult does after the divorce is final and unless the other adult is putting their shared child in harms way, the adults typically don't have much say in what the other adult does when the child is around. There are expections when things are written into the custody order, but even those are difficult to enforce. For example, in my case BM added language that SSs were not allowed to be exposed to video games rated M for mature. This was because DH used to play video games when they were married. Then BM met and moved in with someone who played video games and so did his son. All of a sudden, she was buying Grand Theft Auto for my SSs, who were 7 at the time. When DH expressed his disapproval, she told him that it was none of his business what went on in her home. You would think that would have meant she would butt out when it came to DH's home, now our home...but you would be wrong. Rules don't apply to many BMs. 

fedupinwa's picture

She has no say in her ex moving on.  Unless you are a danger to the kids the two of you are fine.  Have your SO tell his ex to stay out of his business.

ndc's picture

Unless there's something in the court order about overnights before marriage, there's not a whole lot she can do legally that will succeed.  But she can file all kind of frivolous stuff to cost your BF money and time in court.  And there's a lot she can do outside of legal channels.  She can badmouth you, she can badmouth your boyfriend, she can tell the kids their father has chosen you over them, she can put the kids into a loyalty bind, she can use the kids as weapons to try to destroy your relationship, she can utilize the kids as spies to destroy any semblance of privacy you have.  There's a LOT she can do if she really wants to.   Most BMs can't be bothered to stoop to all that, but there are lots of examples here of vindictive and/or personality disordered BMs who do.

tog redux's picture

Yes, this - and more - don't forget the CPS calls, police calls, and withheld visitation because you or SO are a "danger" to the kids.

OP - you'd be wise to give this more time before you move in, to see where this is going to go. She's firing a warning shot across the bow.

Rags's picture

Nope, she can't do shit.  Your SO needs to have a CO in place with clearly defined custody and visitation.  His time with his kids is his time with his kids and he can do on his time what he chooses to do. BM has no say in his time with his kids.

She can try to do whatever she wants legally.  You have the facts on your side.  She needs to know that any crap she pulls will be met with consequences.  Apply those consequences.

If she is reasonable, be reasonable, if she is not reasonable then she has removed the gloves of reasonableness and should not be dealt with reasonably.

 

 

 

tog redux's picture

OP, this is not accurate advice. Family court does not operate in a logical manner and "facts" mean much less than lies, most of the time.

It's good to have a court order, but don't expect court to deal out any consequences for her violating it.  And don't spend 10s of thousands trying to fight with her.

Rags's picture

Or even more sadly, just give up.

If you take no action, nothing changes.  Is family law court a nightmare?  Yes, it can be.  However, if toxic is met by a wall of financial, legal, and publicly embarrassing consequences justice can occur against a toxic blended family opposition.

If no action is taken, they get to do what they want.

So, I take action.  And so far, my wife and I in partnership have been able to keep the toxic under control for the most part.

If you are going to make a life with this man, I recommend partnership and action over subservience to the toxic opposition.

As others have indicated, moving on and finding a quality partner sans baggage is optimal. But it is of course your call to make.

tog redux's picture

Sure, if you have 50K to throw away and don't mind losing years of your life to stress, only to lose the child entirely via Family Court incompetence, knock yourself out. 

Even if action is taken, they often get to do what they want.  

Oh, and if you are a man, be prepared to get screwed by the court. 

ldvilen's picture

Ask yourself, too, is this guy worth it?  Is there some reason this guy w/kids and a toxic BM is more valuable than a man without kids and no BM in the picture?  Better if you find your male equivalent vs. signing up for a lopsided relationship where you'll be expected to, by far, do the majority of the sucking it up and taking it.

set1114's picture

I think when you love someone, you're willing to fight for your relationship. I'm not going to let this woman win by ending our relationship. 

beebeel's picture

Oh sweetie...

 

YOU ARE THE PRIZE!! This guy is a "ruh-roh! Try again next time!" 

beebeel's picture

I understand that's not what most people want to hear and I'm sorry if you're feeling ganged up on here. Most of us just want to see you avoid years of stress and drama that turn into bitterness and resentment once the smell of new love wears off. 

Pregnantwithquestions's picture

Absofreakinlutely spot on. Once the love wears off, these types are rarely worth it. Many of us have been there and are telling you from experience, run-- do not walk, away.

This guy might be and probably is great. But you've only been with him 10m, you don't live together and you can cut losses.

In addition to that it really doesn't matter what an upstanding father he is. You can be Dad of the Year and still lose in court to a mediocre BM. It has happened to many of us, where BM is "insert bad thing here" and she still walks away with more time, CS and freshly added stipulations to the parenting plan.

ldvilen's picture

I didn't tell you to find someone else, for the record.  I said to ask yourself if this guy is worth it, and, yeah, maybe implied that a guy with less baggage might be a better choice.  However, only you can make that decision.  By far most of the women who come here are SMs, so we've been in what your future shoes may be.  Some of us have been in them a long time.  I don't think we are catty women trying to ruin your day or relationship, so much as we are experienced women giving grandmotherly advice.  Here's a good article for all of us to read: https://www.stepmomhelp.com/stepmoms-you-knew-what-you-were-getting-into/

And, I'm letting people know about that in a grandmotherly fashion, I hope.  "What many outsiders don’t know is that the challenges don’t just appear the moment we start dating our partners. In fact, many of them don’t even show up until we get married."

set1114's picture

I knew what I was getting myself in when I started this relationship. I merely came here to ask if she could do anything just because she's miserable and jealous of her ex moving on. 

tog redux's picture

Well - many of us said that at first, only to find out how stressful life can be with a toxic ex.  The only reason I am with DH still is because he never wavered in protecting me from her, and when push came to shove and I was ready to walk, he put me ahead of the court battles and all the other nonsense.  If yours doesn't do that, then rethink it.  It's not about "winning", no one wins either way.  

tog redux's picture

DH asks me all the time if I would do it all over again, and I don't know.  We got through it, but I'm not sure I'd do it again if I knew what we were facing. 

Pregnantwithquestions's picture

DH has asked me this, too.  I just smile and say it doesn't matter now because I'm here and we made it-- but I strongly encourage other women-- especially younger and childless to not ever date a man with kids. It's rarely worth the hassle-- and I scooped up a good one so there's one less out there to pick from.

tog redux's picture

For me, the kids are fine - none of this has ever been SS's fault. It's the crazy ex that should send people running for the hills. 

SteppedOut's picture

Sometimes love is not enough. Honestly, ALWAYS love is not enough.There is far more to a relationship than just "love".

set1114's picture

You're right, love is almost never enough. Relationships take work and that's what we're doing. 

Thisisnotus's picture

relationships take work...totally agree...but the amount of work that you are in for is NOT worth it. Trust me. I was you about 4 years ago......big mistake. You have know idea what the BM (adited to add...that your man will not stop BM) capable of inflicting on you for close to the rest of your life if you stay with this guy......you don't even live with this guy yet....so either run or buckle up and have very very very very low expectations for happines for the rest of your life.

 

shamds's picture

who remarried 11 yrs ago the week divorce was finalized while kids were at school (she told them they had a new daddy when they got home) and had been cheating on hubby for several years of their marriage, kidnapped her 2 daughters claiming i was a half naked christian Caucasian prostitute.

Until daughters found out my mum was asian and of their ethnicity and i was born in the same religion as them lol.

but again, bio mum had to do this, it was justified. Eldest sd23.5 told daddy it was his fault mummy turned into a psycho from the trauma of hubby divorcing her.

hmmm lets recap, your mum was a hoebag cheating on your dad, she married her ex high school bf who left his wife to marry your mum and your mum was so traumatized and tried to stick it to daddy that she was so in demand and could hook any man, except she got a male hoebag for a husband while daddy married a younger responsible woman...mmmmm

trust me hun, a shitstorm is on the rise courtesy of bio mum... figure out if you can handle it and if this man really is worth it

Harry's picture

She can say and do anything she wants.  If her kids believe her, then what ?    Don't get into a battle with the BM just because you want to win. Or you feel that your BF is the greatest.   You have to remember in the long run SP never win. Kids will always love BM.  And put BM first.  
 

"This situation is nothing like mine, but thanks. ". There are no new situations, just a bunch of old situation that all comes up 
 

Thumper's picture

OP there is a lot your 'boyfriends' ex can do legally.

She can file motion after motion after motion for anything she wants. If she doesn't like the clothing dh has at home, she can say HE  doesn't provide the child with clothing AT ALL. She can file a motion and report "x' has new job and makes 20k more per year and she wants more cs. Results in dad proving her wrong to a tune of a few grand for appearences in court. Maybe her lawyer fees too.

She can file a motion to be heard because she thinks your mean to her kids...I mean abusing her kids...Then she can turn around and file another motion to keep you away because she report IN HER motion that your driving her kids around drunk.  Then she may start telling your boyfriend you cannot go to school activities because the child is upset. OR your told to stay away at visitation because it upsets the child.

OR she might scheduling the child for every possible activity under the sun, year round. This will keep your boyfriend running around during the week AND all weekends so he wont be home with you.

There are a zillion things she can do IF she is not stable. She can ruin your life and she can also make dad disappear if she wants to.

Your here to either stir up a debate OR you are here because your concerned. There are hundreds of years of experience given to you here for free...Lessons we have learned are everything depends on the mental health of bm and dh too.

Love is not a feeeeeeling OP, it is actions. How old are you op?

 

 

Siemprematahari's picture

Can she legally do anything because she disagrees?

I'm not sure just how much she can do but what she definitely should do is seek some therapy to help cope with the divorce and move on with her life. I'm not certain if she'll ramp up the crazy once she doesn't get what she wants but be prepared in case she does. If she's feeling scorned she will try and pull all sorts of things to make you all miserable.

BM thinks we're damaging the girls by being together and repeatedly tells my partner that he's being selfish and not thinking of his kids.

She doesn't get to dictate who he has around his girls and get to call him selfish. Any talk like that needs to be ignored and only address things that pertain to his daughters and not all that unnecessary back ground talk. Every time she does, he needs to shut it down ASAP.

 

 

set1114's picture

She definitley needs to go to therapy because she has a lot to work through. My partner has been making sure to not engage in communication with her when she starts going off about things. 

CLove's picture

1. BM did not tell kiddos about divorce until sometime after it was final.

2. She LIVED with your SO UNTIL AFTER divorce was final.

3. She was controlling the entire time that you have been together.

4. She is highly critical of you and SO during the entire time you have been together.

Is this correct? Definitely read posts here to see what other folks have been through with respect to toxic BMs. Mine is affectionately called Toxic Troll. She is a narcissistic personality disordered, sociopathic liar. This does and has "rubbed off" on her progeny.

I am 5 1/2 years into this, we began our relationship as friends 1 1/2 prior to that as friends. He was separated-not-divorced, and in 2016 completed the divorce.

Our BM, Toxic Troll is not as controlling as yours, but she did try to dictate that I could not meet kids until a few months in, and then suddenly it was ok, because shed known a dude for a week and had him staying over and he "whoops!" met the kids.

In my world, the legal "rights" and the BM "birthing rights" are slightly different. Legally, she can TRY to do what she wants, and your SO can spend thousands wrangling with her. Most bio fathers let the bio mother control many aspects of kiddos life. And again, this one sounds VERY controlling, at least until its convenient.

It doesnt sound like she has moved on and she will use the kiddos to control SO.

Just - forewarned is forarmed. Im not advising you to move on, give up, or anything, just be aware of what lies ahead for you and in that way you will be able to make your best decisions for your best interests.

set1114's picture

Thank you for your response and not being critical and tell me to just run away. I appreciate that. Our relationship hasn't been easy, mainly because of her. Would being with someone who doesn't have all of this baggage be easier for me? I'm sure it would. However, it's rare to find someone that doesn't have kids or who hasn't been married before. I consider myself lucky to have found my current partner. We're constantly working on things and whatever BM comes at us with, we'll handle. 

Exjuliemccoy's picture

OP, research High Conflict Exes, Pathogenic Parenting, and Parallel Parenting.

The biggest problem with a HC BM is, they seldom stop. She can be a constant disruption in your life indefinitely, even if you never see her. Worst of all, they turn their children (that's right, THEIR, because the kids are her property) against their father and SM. Family Court has an abysmal record of doing anything about Parental Alienation, so imagine signing up for years of psychological warfare. Imagine the long term stress, the physical and mental health issues you'll develop, scrimping and saving because of your SO's legal bills, and the inevitable fighting caused by all of this. Imagine your SO's kids hating you, and not wanting to see their dad anymore. Imagine resentment and depression and anxiety and PTSD. THAT'S what life is like being involved with a man with a HCBM.

set1114's picture

My partner has, and continues to be the preferred parent. Things are stable when they're at his house. They ask when they're coming back and never ask about going to her house. I don't see her trying to turn them against their dad, as she says she wants the best for them and knows what a good dad he is. I just wish she trusted his judgement about a new partner. But I guess that's too much to ask. 

Ispofacto's picture

^^  All of this.

And if you are bringing any children of your own into this, they will suffer along with you.  Every aspect of your life will be effected.  Or should I say infected?  Including your friends and family, your work, etc.

 

set1114's picture

It would actually be "affected" but that doesn't matter. I don't have my own kids. 

Pregnantwithquestions's picture

I think what this poster was trying to say is that adding in your own children here makes things significantly more complicated. Do you plan on having kids in the future, at all? Even though your current sitation is that of a childless dads girlfriend, it can change to dads wife and then dads wife with an "ours" baby. That's the beauty of steplife, it is ever changing. Right now, the kids love your partner. What happens when they don't? When BM all of a sudden becomes the preferred home? When you get married and pregnant and then all of a sudden there's jealousy? THAT is what people here are telling you, BM can do *a lot* to make life misery for you without even stepping into a courtroom. Take it a step further and she can make life unbearable when she does drag you to court. Don't think it won't happen, even in the most amicable splits with friendly exes, many people at the very least have to seek mediation at some point to alter a parenting plan and even friendly exes who are good parents can rake the other over the coals with little to no warning.

Unless you're dealing with a man that's ex has either passed away or completely and totally handed over 100% control to dad, she will ALWAYS be an insert in your life, for the end of time. It doesn't stop at 18, or when they move out, or ever. The degrees to how much and often can change, but you're signing up for a relationship where there's at the very least, 3 individuals at all times.