How do you split expenses if you own the house?
I own a spacious 4 bedroom home, and I've paid off the mortgage completely. I have two children with me 100% of the time. My boyfriend has one child 50% of the time. He currently rents a one bedroom apartment.
He has brought up the idea of living together several times. But I don't know what would be fair in terms of splitting expenses, so I've delayed having the discussion. He makes about double what I do, but I have significantly more assets since I'm a saver.
Even though the mortgage is paid off, I have property taxes, utilities, lawn maintenance/landscaping costs, home insurance and minor maintenance costs (eg occasional plumbing to fixed a clogged drain, repairing an appliance, etc).
50% of these costs would be less than he pays for his apartment-- and would be for a much nicer space. His son sleeps on a sofa bed in a living room currently.
I intend for my house to remain my sole property and for it to go to my children eventually. I would not ever agree to put his name on the deed. Since I am not going to put his name on the deed, I wouldn't expect him to contribute to any capital improvements that increased the value of the home (eg renovating a bathroom, etc), but would it be fair to expect any contribution towards larger maintenance costs (eg if a water heater needed to be replaced) if they arose or to add any amount onto the monthly expenses to be put aside for these kinds of potential repairs which are inevitable and typical for maintaining a property? Or would it be reasonable to expect him to pay the equivalent of one-bedroom rent (the amount he's currently paying for his apartment works out to be about $100-$200 more than 50% of the expenses I listed above since utility costs vary based on the month)?
I also am not sure what's a fair split for groceries since I have two children 100% of the time, and he has one child 50% of the time.
I want to be totally fair, but I also don't want to feel like I'm being taken advantage of. I've sacrificed a LOT over the years to pay off my mortgage and to build my savings, and I currently sacrifice to maintain my home while saving for my children's college. My kids aren't wearing designer clothing, and they don't have the newest tech. We don't take expensive vacations or eat out often. On the other hand, he spends freely and his son has the newest of everything. He is 100% free to do whatever he wants with his own money, but I'm not interested in subsidizing it.
What is fair in this situation?
That's a tough one. I only
That's a tough one. I only have lived together as married and with fully joint finances, so others with experience with separate finances will give you better advice on the logistics, I'm sure.
However - do you get the sense your BF's reason for moving in is: to pay less toward living expenses, while gaining more space and a nicer home for himself and his son (freeing up even more of his money to spend on luxuries)?
If so, I think you'd be wise to keep living separately. His financial habits don't sound compatible with yours and will breed resentment, and he just sounds selfish.
Just trying to be fair
We are both fairly high-income. He's not hurting for funds. I don't think his motives are income-related at all. I just don't know a fair way of splitting expenses. I'm not interested in a legal marriage at this point since his income would impact college financial aid applications for my children. I would never expect him to contribute to that since they aren't his kids, but they wouldn't be eligible for any financial aid if we married.
That makes total sense, not
That makes total sense, not wanting to get married until financial aid isn't an issue.
Another consideration, if you do marry him later: it could lead to resentment on *his* part if you would never put him on the deed. I understand you want it to be your kids' asset, and he didn't contribute to paying off the mortgage -- but cutting a spouse entirely out of the home he may live in and contribute to for decades can be harsh.
Would you consider buying a joint property, if you do marry?
Absolutely but that’s years down the road
We wouldn't marry until my children graduate college due to the financial aid issue. I wouldn't need such a big house as an empty nester. I would be able to sell, and we could both put an equal amount of money into a new residence at that point. But I'm not going to put his name on a home that I have paid off 100% without his contribution.
I'm sorry but with all of the
I'm sorry but with all of the financial stipulations you're putting on this relationship because of your kids, maybe you shouldn't be in a relationship until your kids are financially independent. It sucks to be with someone who treats your relationship as though it's a direct threat to their children's well being.
There are a lot of things to
There are a lot of things to think about. I understand you want to be fair..
On the face of it, if this is a home that he will "never really own". I think that you should try to come up with a fair "rent". It may not be as much as his freestanding apartment.. but maybe a rate more akin to what people in your region might charge for a roommate in a home..Since he would also have a 2nd person in the home... I'm guessing taking up an entire room... and you are sharing a room.. maybe 1.25-1.5 multiplied times that "room rent" rate. Then, I would split the utilities in to 2/3 you.. 1/3 him. (3 full time people on your tab.. only 1.5 on his... so 1/3 is fairly close to fair).
I of course would not expect contributions to capital improvements... but I also would not charge him for repairs and upkeep. You save his "rent" and I'm sure you could more than pay for the odd water heater from that kitty.
One thing to consider in time perhaps though.. is if you are together long term... what rights would you want him to have to remain in the home if you were to pass away? Maybe that would depend upon how long the relationship was.. but certainly...even now.. if something tragic happened.. would you want for him to have at least a few months to find other arrangements?
MY bottom line is that I figure that "everyone" has to pay to live somewhere.... Just because you sacrificed the last 20 years.. doesn't mean that it is fair for him to say.. "well.. you don't have any mortgage.. so why do I have to pay you anything"... In fact, if he balks at wanting to pay a reasonable rent.. I would rethink moving forward with him.
I had an abusive EX who tried that with me.. "put me on the deed".. I won't pay if you don't. I didn't ... he cheated on me and left.. finally had to get the police involved to get him to leave me alone.
You may want to consult a
You may want to consult a lawyer before you let him move in. The laws are different everywhere. You want to be sure you know exactly what you are doing. You don't want to find out, after some time, that you are now common law spouses.
I have a friend who was in similar circumstances. She and her partner went to a lawyer and drew up a partnership agreement.
Before he moves in, be sure you are fully aware of his finances. That he earns double what you do, has his child 50/50, and still only has a one bedroom merits concern. He should be able to afford a two bedroom apartment.
Her state, if accurate in her
Her state, if accurate in her bio, does not recognize common law marriage. And it doesn't just happen and you suddenly find out you are now common law spouses. There has to be intent by the couple to be married, to put themselves out there to friends and family as a married couple.
A partnership agreement is a good idea, though.
In today's world with blended
In today's world with blended families, with women who do not take their husband's name, its very easy for people to assume that people who live together long term are married. The longer you live together the faster people assume you are married.
My friend with the partnership agreement lives in a state that does not recognize common law marriages. Even then, the lawyer told them that every time someone says anything about being married they had to correct that assumption. So every time someone says your wife/husband/spouse you would need to say not married. If someone says Mr/Mrs X, you need to say Mr/Ms Y, not married.
A partnership agreement is very much like a prenuptial. It lays out pre live together assets, states what happens to the, and states what happens to anything you jointly buy. My friends bought a house together. If one of them dies, the survivor has a year to buy out the other. If the survivor does not the house will be sold and the profits divided 50/50 between the survivor and what is in the deceased's will.
That doesn't make sense to me
That doesn't make sense to me. Just because people might think you are married, that doesn't change your legal status in any way.
Correct, tog. What other
Correct, tog. What other people assume, on their own, does not make a couple common law spouses. It is a little more involved than that.
Regardless, PA is not a common law state.
Years ago, I knew a guy who told me that he kept moving back and forth over the state line so he wouldn't be considered married by common law (one state recognized it, one did not). Um, takes a little more than living with someone a certain amount of years to be considered married. If I live with my roommate for 7 years, are we married?
Since he will not be getting any money on house sale
I would add up yearley expenses of the house. Taxes, lawn, electric,gas, heating insurance ect. Add something exter for replacement of things like vacuum, TVs major kitchen appliances. Divide that by two , divide it by 12 months. That his monthly rent. Food. He pays half the monthly food bill. Or 40% That's hard because his kids may eat steak your May eat pasta. So his 50% kids can eat more $ then your 100% kids.
You can not spend all your time going down the the exact dime, on everything. That will be no way to live. You will pair for repairs. And improvements. You put in a $100,000 bathroom. He not going to get anything from that on house sale. Also said putting in a $ amount for small repairs $50 a month ?
But once again if he wants to buy a 100 inch TV. That's on him. Because in 5 years that's going to be worthless
I think it would be more fair
I think it would be more fair for him to pay a comparable "rent" cost for living in the home. Since she owns the home outright, just adding up the taxes and incidentals might not be very much... which in a way is subsidizing his ability to live cheaply.
But, in that case, she needs to pick up the tab for all upkeep of the home. Things like mowing the lawn.. etc.. those are things that wil be part of the "chore list" that is distributed to the occupants.
The thing is that there is a value to her having the home to herself with her kids. There are negative aspects of sharing the home.. she should definitely ensure that she feels that he isn't getting to ride her coattails financially in the home.
I agree with the nickel and
I agree with the nickel and dime comment. I have second marriage friends who split everything 50/50. We've gone out in a group, and even though the couples have separate bills, this couple will split the bill between them down to the last penny.
I do think he should pay rent
I do think he should pay rent, but I agree, you are acting as a landlord, and therefore he shouldn't pay for renovations or fixes to the house that you would do to increase its value.
I would consult an attorney about whether you need some sort of landlord/tenant statement drawn up to protect you, should he claim that he increased the equity in the house and is therefore entitled to it.
If you've voiced your
If you've voiced your concerns with your bf and he still wants to move in, you are on the right path. I will also get a written contract through an Attorney, signed by you both so there would not be later 'issues' . Maybe go 70/30 with you at 70 % of household expenses? And 50/50 extra if agreed on extras (ex. renovations, repairs, grand meals you two want to try, etc.)? Whichever you decide on make sure it's a compromise for you both before moving forward with anything extra (I'm petty, I would even make him sign a written contact amongst us before moving forward to cover my ass atleast until he was a DH in any extras he may want and you give in). Your bf has an advantage in this situation, please make sure you continue to do what's best for you and your children because you were set up before he came along at the end of the day.
I admire how you are working out the kinks before diving in head first for "love".
I moved in with a boyfriend
I moved in with a boyfriend once who owned his appartment. When he purchased the appartment (while we were dating) his lawyer got me to sign a document to state that I had no claim to the property. So first I would look into setting something like that up which will hold up in your juristiction so that you are covered.
We both talked about how to split costs and came up with a figure that was less than what I would have paid for renting a room in an equivalent appartment that I would pay as a "home contribution" but would be a nice help for him to cover bills and capital expenses etc. (He could afford the mortgage and bills etc without my contribution but this showed that I was contributing something so that neither of us was resentful.)
We split the cost of monthly utilities 50/50 (no kids involved). I did not pay for capital expenditure or property taxes. If we purchased furniture/appliances it was either explicitly him buying it or me, though I think we did have to negotiate over a couple of items when we broke up.
As for grocieries and other expenses we had lived together prior to this so already had a joint account from which we did our grocery shopping and any joint purchases and activites (going out for dinner, dates, vacations etc). We worked out an amount of money to put in each month that would cover all our usual expensses and topped it up as needed (for us again it was 50/50). This way it was just a once a month calculation and not splitting the costs purchase by purchase. We were both very good with our money and trusted each other with this account, if that trust is not there or ground rules for using the account are not followed this might not be the best solution.
Obviously with the kids involved your situation is not going to be a 50/50 split. But if you and your boyfriend can find a split that you agree on and a contribution amount that helps you both out without causing any resentments then that would be ideal.
I would do what you are doing here and have a good think about the options and what you want the outcome to be but then discuss it with your boyfriend with an open mind so that you two can work together to find our own solution that works for you both. Having the option of a review of everything after 6 months or so to assess what works and doesn't work could be helpful too. In your discussions you might also want to consider how any monetary amounts will adjust when the children move out or if custody schedules change.
Another factor to think about...
Don't set in stone that actual price of his share, there may come a time where his son moves in with you full time. You need to keep the options open. DAH use to pay a smaller share of the costs in our house, until SD moved in at age 14, then he started pay more, but not enough. We went rounds over what should be his share. DAH said SD shouldn't add that much extra cost, but Sd would take 2 to 3 showers a day, cook something and decide that she didn't like it and throw it away and cook something else. Utilities tripled with SD washing 3 or 4 items per load. The list of variables could go on and on.
This is a tricky situation
This is a tricky situation and I am in the same boat as you, only I have already moved my SO into the house I and my 2 DDs live in. I too spent years forgoing expensive things and holidays in order to pay off my mortgage which my SO of 3 years now benefits from. We share living expenses 50/50 and my children live with us 90% of the time, his live with their mother. The only time I feel resentful about this situation is when he lets his oldest daughter (SD20) treat my house has "Dad's house" which means she can come and go as she pleases and treat me and my DDs badly in the process. Other than that it works well and we also go 50/50 on rates, but not home and content insurance - I pay for that.
In hindsight I wish I had negotiated a rent agreement of sorts, maybe half of what he would pay if he rented on his own, just so that I didn't feel so used. He did however "put a ring on it" lol
I think the fact that you are thinking along these lines already means that you need to charge him something over and above the shared expenses - otherwise you will feel resentful and used.
Are you still with this guy?!
Are you still with this guy?!? What happened to dumping his sorry, using self?
Still with him and things
Still with him and things have improved since our couple counselling started. Our therapist has come up with some great strategies for us and we are communicating better. Plus SD hasn't asked to stay again....
I'm stuck on this detail
I'm stuck on the fact that a guy who makes very good money and likes to spoil his child with the best of everything has the child sleeping on a couch. A two-bedroom apartment seems like it would be a neccessity.
Something doesn't add up there; I'd look a little deeper into that.
His custody switched to 50%
His custody switched to 50% from EOW in the middle of his lease, so he was waiting for his lease to end. It's also a very nice apartment in a luxury building with a pool, gym, etc in a high rent area. If we don't move in together, I think he would be switching to a two-bedroom apartment.
OP, please check and double
OP, please check and double check with a lawyer before moving him in. There was a woman on another board who inherited a house and a large sum of money before she met her husband. In the divorce settlement, she had to hive him a fair slice of the worth because, by making her house the marital home, she was "giving" him part of it. Yes, I know they were married and you are not, but please check that this cannot happen.
I would never marry again
I would never marry again without a prenup. I learned that lesson the hard way when I got divorced. I'm always shocked by how many second marriages don't have a prenup. Thankfully my boyfriend agrees with me about prenups. If a marriage lasts, they aren't necessary. But it's only fair to protect what you spent 20+ years saving before meeting someone.
I would say that once he
I would say that once he moves in, anything he has left after he pays CS is his contribution to the relationship income. Your income is also relationship income. The combined resources go to support the home, the relationship, the kids when they are present, and in acruing the retirement resources required. At least your retirement resources. After all, he will be living rent free.... I assume.
It is a good idea to have papers to minimize the complexity of dealing with the potential issues should be relationship end.
I don't think it's fair or
I don't think it's fair or conducisive to a truly happy marriage for one spouse to not want their spouse to ever truly share a home and life together. A house is one of the biggest investments most people make. What if your boyfriend longs to be a homeowner some day? Is it fair to deny him that so you can give your house to your kids some day? I think if you're truly concerned about the monetary value of your house going fully to your kids and your potential partner being completely kept out of it you should sell your house and go ahead and give any earnings to your children however you see fit - just gift it to them or put it into some kind of savings for them. Then you and your partner can buy a home together.
His income is household
His income is household income. If he can't understand this, find a partner with some quality.
We have a similar situation
We have a similar situation (except I don't have any kids and his SD23 has been officially kicked out). I also still have a mortgage but I can afford all of my bills on my own. I do ask SO to pay $800/month contribution towards the upkeep of the house and we split joint expenses 50-50. We agreed on what was considered joint expenses and individual expenses upfront before he moved in (e.g. HOA fees are joint expense because he uses the common areas, but property taxes are my expense as the sole homeowner). A 1-bedroom in our area would be around $1800/month so he comes out ahead, I get some house repair/improvement money and still own the house (its been a dream of mine to do this and he understands. He also had financial issues with his ex and isn't interested in homeownership at this point in his life).
In your case I would start with agreeing on what are the shared expenses. In my opinion you should pay a bit more if your 2 kids are home all the time so I would start with 2/3 for you, 1/3 for him and maybe he pitches in a little extra ($100 or so a month) for when he has his kid.
I would say the biggest thing is if you don't get along with his kid (or your kids with him) then it may be better to wait until they are older or even away at college.
I don't agree with the comments that say it isn't fair unless everything is shared as a household. Many couples split up because they cannot communicate about finances so it is important to establish those discussions, and also realize that older couples enter into new relationships with significant assets that the other partner did not contribute towards. It depends on each individual couple but in my case it works for us.
I own the home my husband and
I own the home my husband and I live in. I have an adult daughter lives with us. I do not ask my DH to pay towards items I spend to improve the value of the house. I have not asked him for money towards furnishing the house.
We both recieve payments from the government that go into a joint account. This is just sufficient to pay all bills except a few high cost medical bills. If he needs to put more money in for medical bills or to buy things for his adult offspring he pays.
I would not ask for rent .
I've been remarried for 3
I've been remarried for 3 years and my wife & I live in the home my ex and I bought together. I have a pre-nup that assures my home will not go to my new wife. Some observations: