Day 26. Less Devastated. New Insights.
Hi STalkers,
First of all I cannot thank you enough for weighing in on my Day One Devastated post almost a month ago. It was immensely helpful and I felt so supported during such a hard time in my life. It has gotten a bit easier in some ways; I do feel free and lighter without the daily picking, fighting, and screaming, as well as not having to pretend like I'm happy in the face of SDs who don't like me. I'm settling into my apartment and starting to feel some new routines coming on. Not sleeping so well yet, but am working on that. I plan to provide updates to help others who might be deciding or have decided to move on (not sure how many updates that will be, so this is 1 of x). 
After some time to cool off, my needs became much clearer and - not surprisingly - didn't deviate from what I needed and spoke up about while I was still living there. It has also become very clear that that OSD19 has gone on an all-out smear campaign against me toward my exSO, his entire family, and shared community friends. My sense of loss has doubled with friends and "family" dropping me from social media, blocking me, not talking to me, etc. It has been really hard but knowing her I'm not surprised at this. It had already begun prior to my leaving.
One of my needs that became extremely clear is that in order to heal, I need an apology or an acknowledgment/ownership that I was treated poorly by the kids and by him. Not for reconciliation, just to move on neutrally and feel in my heart that there is a common understanding of what happened. After two or three conversations with him, it is clear that this isn't going to happen. He has done everything, including calling me an abuser, to prevent any sort of reckoning or ownership.
One interesting thing that he said is that the OSD19 isn't "wired for apologies or taking ownership. She burns down houses and doesn't care who goes down in them. She has been this way since she's a toddler." This crashed me out hard. While I knew that she has issues with this, it became apparent to me just how much she's been appeased her ENTIRE LIFE, and why her treatment of me has escalated lately, and why she gets away with it.
As many of you pointed out, this is an SO parenting problem. While her behavior has been untenable, it is ultimately his responsibility to put his foot down. He never did. He cannot see the manipulation. She does no wrong in his eyes. Speaking up about her to him is like gasoline on a fire. It was the source of 95% of our arguments, which led to his eventual gaslighting, deflecting, threats, minimizing... followed up with coercion and nitpicking immediately after this harmful behavior (why aren't you intimate with me anymore? why aren't you excited to see me? what's WRONG with you? you're a sociopath; you make my skin crawl.)
My Day 6 post alluded to he wouldn't let me talk to the kids after leaving and I am very thankful for the advice you all gave me about that as well. Yesterday he asked if I wanted to FaceTime them and keep it light and airy (except for the OSD19 who won't be there because SHE is so angry with ME). Um, no, I'm all out of pretense but thanks.
Well, he's minus a partner now and I'll never return to that shit show. I found old emails from 2020 and it was the same set of issues, same deflection. I can't believe I hung in there as long as I did.
He has created and/or enabled
He has created and/or enabled a monster in SD19. She has a rough road ahead in life.
I dealt with a psycho family member after one of our parents died. She did the same thing: badmouthed me and my other siblings to all who would listen, labeled us the worst people in the world, made up outrageous lies. You just can't expect normal behavior (ie apologies) from these types.
But, while many initially believed my psycho family member, as time passed, people began seeing her for what she is: a trouble making liar.
You might not be around to witness others seeing the truth, but more than likely, they will. And you'll be off in your better, happier life with all of that behind you.
Congratulations!
Agree. Time always has a way
Agree. Time always has a way of telling the truth. I was badmouthed for years by a family member who did a lot of damage. People believed her. I decided to forge ahead and if that meant relationships were damaged and broken that were not by me it's not my job everytime to fix the shattered glass especially when it's a bunch of lies. I've learned that I just keep moving, updating on my life via channels and no need to justify that you are a good person- just keep being one. Mumble all the crap to yourself about what a garbage human being they are and continue on your merry way. Update after decades of BS, family members have become curious about the "bad one" finding that I am living a really great, wholesome wonderful life that is full of color - maybe it's not so bad after all? BEST REVENGE IS SUCCESS.
Love this!
Love this!
BEST REVENGE IS SUCCESS.
BEST REVENGE IS SUCCESS.
Very well said. I am doing a lot of grumbling/muttering under my breath. A lot. It helps. Thank you for your perspective.
SS smears me behind my back
SS smears me behind my back whenever he can until very recently, I suspect. There was a time when it became so vicious that it even made DH pale, and made him want to defend me. I also know that SS bad mouthed me at my own wedding because it got back to me. The thing is, I think people realize that he only has one side of the story, and he presents as pretty immature, so there's that as well. But if friends and family are dropping and blocking you from social media, that seems like they believe your 19 yo SD. But probably not forever, and probably never by reasonable people.
Sorry that happened to you as
Sorry that happened to you as well. On top of losing four people who were so important to me, as if that's not enough, one of them thinks it's a good idea to start a war. It's really dysfunctional and toxic, and one day I know that I'll be able to fully say "good riddance." Right now, it's shocking and my old habits of anxiously wondering what I could have done to fix/prevent it still kicks in. Ugh. Time.
I think one of the tortures
I think one of the tortures of these situations--maybe the worst--is the self doubt creeping in, the time (sometimes years) of wondering what we might have done "wrong," wringing our hands wondering what we could have done differently, racking our brains about what horrible things we could have possibly done to create or feed into such treatment of ourselves.
It's why I see the deliverers of such awful treatment as horrendously toxic if not evil. These types purposely choose their behavior based on their victims. I seriously doubt they ever go after aggressive, unkind people in the same manner.
Some people just enjoy being mean. Some people use it to feed their disturbed souls.
We win by putting these kinds of people in our pasts.
"I don't care" is a powerful place to get to.
I really feel those last two
I really feel those last two lines. Toxic people are probably incapable of the kind of emotional well being to give an apology.
they will use it to dredge up past slighs.. gaslight you into thinking the problems were your own fault.. to use it as a final blow of "we win/you lose" etc.. almost nothing can come out of it that will provide any sort of healing.
Torture, for sure...
It is the worst kind of torture, for sure. I 100% feel that they did this on purpose, knowing the type of person I am - I take things to heart, I try really really hard, and I'm anxious and worry about everyone and everything. I remember saying things along the way like "it's just nice to be included" or "sorry that I was a bit down the other day" only to hear it tossed back to me like "well, WE are family and WE are going to tell things to our FAMILY first... " or "your depression isn't my problem" or "you're just trying too hard; relax!" and the like. It made my head spin and broke my heart - that's what I get for being vulnerable. I would never kick someone when they're down, nor kick them in the first place. These girls (mainly OSD) are toxic and evil. They turned on their mom, they tried to break up her and her boyfriend, they turn on their friends, they sit around and gossip and embellish the same stories over and over again. They think they are cool for having so much gossip to spew.
I do need to get to a place of "I don't care." I think I was guilted into caring for so long that it became a bad habit.
Unfortunately, you don't need
Unfortunately, you don't need an apology.. you want it. And.. to be honest... if you even got one, what would it really do.. give you some sense of vindication that "you were right... they were wrong"?
Would it rekindle hope that you could mend the broken relationships? (probably not a good thing).
I personally feel that the concept of getting closure and having ammends made with people is not something we should push for.
You can't make someone be self aware.. you can't make others apologize.. you can't fix dysfunction in other people.. can't fix their mental issues. Even if you got some "apology".. what would it change at this point anyway? You feel you are right anyway.. them apologizing doesn't fix any of that.
And.. to be honest.. it wouldn't matter to the other people.. the family and friends who have taken "his" side.. they won't unblock you.. and resume a relationship.. they are aligned with your EX.. not you.. due to history.. familial connections.. that is one of the crummy parts of break ups is we will lose touch with people that we may have enjoyed.. like one of my old Ex'es dad who was kind and funny .. or the sister that was fun to hang around with...
Were they wrong.. and you right in your POV.. probably.. are they capable of seeing that.. and even if they are.. are they mature enough to acknowlege? probaly not.
Your new job is to move forward.. live your best life and do your best to avoid toxic people like that in the future!
You're right, it wouldn't matter...
I think it's just the rumination in my head... years of trying to be heard, years of trying to be understood, wanting someone to finally see me. Begging to be heard and begging to be believed that I wasn't making up or exaggerating the behavior. That it did hurt my feelings. Nobody was ever on my side; I think I'm stuck in my own mental head game right now. As more time passes, I hope to not care about this validation any longer. I don't know why I need their validation; I know myself and I know what I experienced.
I'm so grateful for this forum and for people like you who have taken the time to reply. Only people who have been in our shoes knows what it feels like.
Brenda & Frank
Chat Gpt (Ai) really helped me make sense of my narcissistic ex husbands treatment of me. He recently died and it brought up some mixed feelings and running questions and his emails through that chat Ai was more helpful and insightful than some therapy I've gotten. It might be helpful to put some of his emails in and let them break them down for you. Here's the description of what they do. "
BRENDA & FRANK
Brenda & Frank are here to help you identify manipulation and gaslighting in conversations, providing detailed analysis and offering guidance on how to respond calmly and assertively."
Sweep out the dirt...
I am a very firm believer that if someone has a SD that does not accept them, they NEVER will. No amount of energy, time or effort will change that. IMO, the vast majority of SDs are hard-wired to reject and revile any woman in their father's life, and that will continue on into adulthood. It is especially true if BM alienates or otherwise interferes with the daughter's relationship with her father. Men also give in to their precious princesses because they fear losing them.
Bottom line is these girls/women have ZERO use for you other than as an object of their hatred and insecurity. You said, "On top of losing four people who were so important to me, as if that's not enough, one of them thinks it's a good idea to start a war."
As you now contemplate your future, you need to ask yourself why you allowed yourself to place such importance on people who treated you so badly. That includes your SO as well as his offspring. It is good you are having introspective, but you need to figure out a way to prevent back-sliding back into victim/I"m wrong kind of mentality.
Guess what? The war didn't just start - it started the minute you walked into their father's life. Instead, recognize that you are a warrior for your OWN life now. You fought the good fight and now you have left the battlefield behind.
Practice tough love while you recover from this now-ended chapter. It is no longer the time to feel sad, down and depressed. When that happens, give yourself a mental kick in the butt and say to yourself, over and over again, "WHAT THE HELL WAS I THINKING?" and get MAD. Anger will help carry you into a better place. It will make you forget about faux apologies. It will make you recognize that you were used. It will prevent you from every falling for this kind of b.s. again.
If I can offer one more kindly-intended piece of advice it will be this: WHY are you still communicating with this man?? This relationship should be over and done with. Unless there is a practical reason for contact, which could be done by a brief text, I don't understand why you are even conversing with him. He is trying to rewrite history and get in your head. Don't let him.
You are free! Don't look back at the past 7 years. Consider it like a bad job with an abusive boss and toxic coworkers that you finally were able to leave.
The past is ground that has already been swept - you can't change it. Move forward on a clean, fresh path.
I agree.. the more she stays
I agree.. the more she stays in contact with him.. the more strings she is tying behind her.. and the harder it is to move forward.
At this point.. she gave it a good effort.. the relationship sounds like it became toxic.. screaming at each other violently.. when it gets to that point.. it's over.. and it SHOULD be over. If that is not the kind of person you are or want to be.. then leave the situation that is making you that kind of person... and heal.
You can't heal if you keep picking at the scab either.. you take the risk of infection and the scarring could be worse..
Unles you are fully intersted in resuming a relationship.. cut this off imho. It isn't healing or helpful.
I triple agree. You won the
I triple agree. You won the battle because you've gotten out of the battle. Guess what? 10 years from now they'll still be fighting some form of a battle. It's their normal but you're smart enough to know it isn't your normal.
So yes, get mad. How dare they crap on you for being a better person than their lame asses? How dare they treat you like crap. Screw them and the My Little Ponies they rode in on.
And please take the wise advice you were given and CUT. HIM. OFF.
He doesn't deserve to talk to you. Sweep him and his shit stains right out of your mind.
Agree on so much...
You are right - I need to stay angry. It has carried me a month so far and it needs to carry me for the rest of my life (well, a healthy amount eventually ;))
We agreed to meet last week. His idea "we've been together for so long; isn't it worth a face-to-face converation?" He proceeded to tell me how the OSD observed how cold and mean I was to him and "dad, the sparkle in your eyes died over time because she was so difficult..." (and evidently we should all believe her because mini-wife knows best). Meanwhile, I was dumbfounded that she said this (and that he told me this). This woman knows nothing about the manipulation behind the scenes, the times when I had to pull myself together in 30 seconds and put on a happy face after he told me he hated me, get over it, get the f out, or the like. So not only does he want me to accept his abuse, but I should obviously accept hers as well. Needless to say that conversation didn't go well and I left angrier than ever.
We chatted earlier this week and it went down in flames. I subsequently blocked every form of communication from him. Aside from the habit of wondering when the shoe will drop and continuously picking up my phone to look for a text or email, I actually feel much better. I felt relief wash over me when I finally blocked everything. I don't know why I continue to feel so obligated/indebted to care or try. They definitely used me. It hurts. I never wanted to believe that they would do this to me. I am starting to believe it; it's just taking a bit of time to process it and see it for what it was. I was in major denial.
No Contact
"I need an apology or an acknowledgment/ownership that I was treated poorly by the kids and by him."
I can give you the acknowledgment part. Just by reading your posts i can see and acknowledge that this guy and his kids are a dysfunctional mess and likely his whole family (esp the ones who unfriended you) are personality disordered. The thing about these types of a-holes is that they don't acknowledge. Part of toxic families is that they sweep things under the rug and deny what's obvious to normal people. They don't apologize because they lack the insight to know that they are wrong. No contact is the only way to go with these types.
thank you
They definitely don't acknowledge. Nobody in that family ever has face-to-face conversations. Nobody ever apologizes to anyone. Dad yells and/or is passive aggressive (oh the irony!). Kids hide in their rooms and refuse to talk when something doesn't go their way. The only time I ever had direct conversations with them was when I outright asked 'hey, i noticed things are different - what's wrong?' and then i got denial, deflection, and fabricated stories of things that i supposedly said months ago that a) i didn't even remember or b) weren't said with the malintent that they turned it into over time. It was the worst gaslighting ever. The family is super dysfunctional and has always been and always will be. Now that I write this, I am laughing at myself for thinking I'd ever get a real moment of acknowledgement.
Don't give them the power of requiring an apology or recognition
Don't give them the power of requiring an apology for or recognition of their crap.
One of my needs that became extremely clear is that in order to heal, I need an apology or an acknowledgment/ownership that I was treated poorly by the kids and by him.
I'm so glad you gained that clarity quickly.
You hooked me when you mentioned needing an apology in order to heal. Then, you gave me a soft landing. Luckily before my head exploded, I kept reading your update. Thanks for not leaving us hanging for too long.
I think that the need for something from them is a primary manipulation method by the Narcs. Even when we can flush them down the sewer pipes that they belong in, their hooks are deep and it can take major introspection to recognize that they have zero sway and never really did. In reality we need nothing from them, our healing is entirely on us to accomplish and as we progress in that, they lose their minds.
I had my experience with this. When I sold my company and left the city and State where my first marriage transpired and blessedly expired I never called my XW. Not once. Though I did send her my address and telephone # as the house we had purchased a few months before she left to get on with her extracurricular activities with the geriatric fortune 500 executive sugar/baby daddy was still being dealt with.
She called me multiple times in tears asking me what she should do about whatever crisis she was experiencing. This went on for 3+ years until Grandpa sugar/baby daddy cut me a check for the house that was mine in the divorce. Only then did she stop calling me during some crisis she was dealing with.
I never needed a thing from her. NOt an apology. Though I did owe myself an apology for putting up with that skank whore and for failing myself for far too long. All in we dated for a year, were engaged for a year and were married for 2.5yrs from wedding to final divorce hearing. There were a couple of times that it was clear I should end it, but I failed myself at those opportunities. I understand how hard it is to admit to yourself that though we were all in on a relationship that the partner was a bad choice and neither all in, nor worthy of us.
Keep stepping forward for yourself and in creating your life of adventure. When you are ready and least expect it, your love for the ages will appear.
Take care of you.
Thank you for that
We don't set out to fail ourselves. I thought I had found the one this time, after my first marriage (to another narc abuser) failed. I had gone through years of therapy, did all the work, felt amazing, strong, bought my own house, had my own company. And wow, this one showed up saying all the right things. In hindsight the red flags were there, but they were a bit orange, and they were different flags than I had experienced prior. I was the proverbial frog in the boiling pot - woke up one day on fire.
I need to forgive myself and am working on that. I also need to get strong again. I don't know that I can trust myself to find the right person ever, but never say never. I can't suffer again like this; this has been horrible. I'm sorry you went through what you did with your XW, but I do enjoy reading your stories about your love for the ages - it gives me hope. Thanks, again, for the advice and perspective. I really appreciate it.