CS ending
Hello all, would appreciate your thoughts. When dh and his ex made their divorce agreement, they agreed that dh would provide CS to BM until SS was 19. Amazingly, she is willing to honor that. Dh is still planning to support SS in all of his college endeavors. She's never contributed any money of her own to his education, etc.
I'm assuming that means that BM could now change up other parts of their agreement, like visitation. I'm worried about the fact that SS will now be over here a lot more, and that would be hard for me. My dh is starting a job this week which means that he'll be working long hours. I am dizzy at the idea that SS could be in our home for half the week without dh here. SS is a lot more compliant now, but sorry to say, I find his presence still quite difficult. It's the history of his hostile treatment of me and we just clash personality wise. I suppose I'm going to have to find a way to deal. I've been lucky in that SS has had a part time job on the weekends, and he had friends to go out with. The time may be upon us to have a more genuine reckoning with SS.
At his age, I woulldn't think
At his age, I woulldn't think he would want to increase his "visitation", especailly when his dad is not even home.
If it starts happening, I would have a talk with your husband and let him know that you would prefer that SS not hang out when he is not home. I mean, what would be the point?
I'd be even more direct. What
I'd be even more direct. What's the point of visitation? It's for the child to spend time with his parent. If that parent is absent, the child has no reason to be there. Visitation is not to give BM a break. In other words, you are perfectly within your rights to refuse to accepted SS in your home if your husband isn't there.
19 is a legal adult and not
19 is a legal adult and not reliant on a CO. You have every right to restrict his visits to when dad is home. Given the history, it should be logical that he isn't welcomed without dad around. This should be agreed with DH and a dinner with all thee of you and a pre planned agreement with you and DH should be presented to SS19 about new rules reflecting new work schedule for DH. If SS asks about coming over other times, you jump in and remind him about the history and shut it down. Doesn't he pay the bills at your house? Then he doesn't get a say. Period.
Age benchmarks are the perfect time to make changes. New jobs and schedules are too. They should benefit the homeowners first and foremost, no more twisting schedules to meet a CO. That's over with.
I see no reason for you to
I see no reason for you to host an adult man that you don't get along with while your husband is gone. Idk what your visitation schedule was like before, but if BM had him the majority of the time then, she needs to keep him the majority of the time now. If she fought to have him, she gets him. Nothing pisses me off worse (ok some things do) than a BM who fights tooth and nail to have primary custody then turns around and wants to dump a poorly raised adult on Dad onve the kid isn't worth any money to her anymore. My SO's brother's BM did that. "I can't handle them!" Well, B!tch, you created those monsters. Live with them or kick them out.
CS ends, what agreement can she change up?
SS is no longer a minor child, he is ostensibly an adult. Why would there need to be any further interface with BM?
As for DH's continued full support of SS and his college expenses, why not cut it in half and send SS to his mommy for half?
As for SS being in your home when daddy is not present... just no.
Time to plant your flag and defend whatever hill you plant it on.
IMHO of course.
Take care of you.
I think that this is a good
I think that this is a good idea. I was wondering, what if dh offered half the amount of CS to pay BM for SS's "rent". That way, the visitation would not be an issue. His mom's would be his official residence, and it would also give him the message that the rent could transfer to somewhere else if he were to become more self-sufficient.
DH has fulfilled his obligation for CS. Not one more Cent to BM.
Not one. Ever. For any reason. I would not even provide any support to SS that is discretionary for him to spend as he wishes. If DH insists on continuing to provide SS with support for his university studies that money should be paid directly to the university rather than given to SS to spend as he chooses. Direct pay tuition, fees, room, meal plan, etc... directly to the school. IF he provides proof of Cs or better grades for the past semester. No proof, or one grade less than a C, SS takes out loans to stay in school. If the Skid passes the current semester with Cs or better, you and daddy can decide if you will cover it. IMHO there has to be a performance criteria that is on the Kidult to meet or they pay themselves when it comes to college level education.
Then vector SS back to BM for any other requests. You and daddy should not be paying BM for anything now that SS has aged out from under the CO or prior agreement.
Though I was the CSP in our blended family adventure and my DW was the CP who received CS I firmly believe that the process is far from fair. The NCP far more often than not gets exploited by the family law system for what sadly amounts to prostitution on a payment plan for the duration of the CS order. The NCP has to pay to see their children. The CP has no such burden though they do have the obligation to shelter, feed, and care for the kid when the kid is with the CP. The NCP also has that duty when the kid is with them but they continue to have to pay.
A ridiculous system run by less than top tier administrators and ruled by sadly far more often than it should be, the bottom 10%ers of the legal profession in idiot Harry Potter robes slinging ridiculous Fisher-Price wooden toddlers hammers.
IMHO of course.
SS did get A's and B's this
SS did get A's and B's this semester at community college, to my surprise. He talked a lot about AI though, so maybe some cheating going on? But his attitude is very different from high school. He's obsessed about going away to college like almost every one of his friends. I think he may actually continue to get good grades, though if you asked him what he wants to do in life or what his purpose is, I don't think he'd be able to tell you. But dh is quite happy with SS's progress.
I agree that there is unfairness in the court system. I always kept my BS's welfare in mind. My ex was an addict and more often than not did not pay CS both when he was not being garnished, but even when he was. I never once tried to stop him from seeing his son. I felt that I had to do my part to compensate for my ex's deficiencies. If my ex was a no-show for visitation which was frequent, BS never had any idea because I would never tell him that his dad was scheduled for visitation until I knew for sure he was on his way to pick BS up. BS did not have a single emotion of anger or resentment at his dad. When he got older though, I did reveal stuff so that I could make sure BS did not give his dad money! Today, they have a good relationship, and thankfully, my ex is in recovery.
Thanks Rags. I thought you were suggesting that DH divert some of the college money to BM. My mistake. I did think that if she fought back about getting CS, that he might make this proposal, but I don't want him to be giving money to her after their agreed upon time.
My SS had a fixed visitation schedule so he knew
My SS had a fixed visitation schedule so he knew when the SpermClan declined visitation. CS and visitation as far as I know are not connected. Denying visitation due to non payment of CS is a bad move and can cause the CP to be in contempt. Better to make the kid available for visitaiton per the visitation order and nail the dead beat parent for contempt and a payment of arrears on their choice to not deliver their CS obligation.
For the first 9 years of our CO CS was paid but in very small bits and pieces of the COd monthly CS amount that usually added up to the full CS amount for the month. If CS was short the CS enforcement office would clear the small arrearage for the prior month with the next month which the SpermGrandHag was paying and would generally make sure it balanced by the end of the next month. SpermIdiot never paid a penny of CS. His mommy always did it for him until the CS review was done 9 years later and direct payroll withholding was ordered. That was entertaining. But, another story for another time.
My appologies for the confusing message above. I am team once the kid has aged out from under the CO, the NCP stops all contribution of funds to the CP. Any support for a kid after aging out from under the CO is between the parent and the kid. The other parent is irrelevant and not considered. Though IMHO when it comes to post CO education costs, if the former NCP is contributing, they should direct the kid to go to the former CP for half. Unless otherwise officially ordered by a CO, divorce decree, etc.. In the case of some continued official support requirement, then that support should in no way find its way to the X once the kid reaches the age of majority.
IMHO of course.
Thank you for those helpful
Thank you for those helpful comments. It all makes sense, and I agree and want to defend the idea that SS has two parents, neither of which is me and no schedule should be made that ends up forcing me and SS to spend the most time together. But I'm worried because in the past, 1. SS has always wanted to be here, for the bigger space, the take-out, but mostly because this is where he grew up and this is where his dad is. He loves his dad a lot. 2. BM in the past has always tried to pawn SS off to us. Lately, she hasn't tried to push so hard to pawn SS off on us, maybe because he's more self-sufficient. 3. In the past, dh had wanted to make SS feel at home and comfortable here, so he would allow SS to come by "any time". But that has changed too. I think the turning point was when SS came over on a non-scheduled visitation day, I felt painted into a corner yet again, and didn't want to stand in the way. During that extra visitation time, SS invited over a friend without asking, which brought to a head his attitude that the house was his home first, so he doesn't have to show me respect or consult me on the things that go on here. SS tried to convince dh that I was being a witch by starting trouble with him just for hanging out with a friend quietly. Dh did start to get mad at me about that, but ultimately, he did side with me and told SS that his friend couldn't stay. After that, SS stopped coming over on non-scheduled days, thanks to dh.
I feel that BM was somewhat kept in check knowing that she would be getting CS money, and I know she still needed/wanted that. But without that, I'm wondering if she'll insist on half time. Some of you said that no one can force me to take SS half time, but no one can force her either, no? SS is now a grown up, so no one is legally bound to take him in. I think that she'll insist that she has equal rights as us in terms of being free from the obligation to take in another adult.
I wanted to elaborate on the points above, but you don't have to read this part. I'm just venting. In terms of point 1., SS would always try to find a way to stay here even when he was supposed to be at his mom's. The policy until he was nearly 17 was that he could come by any time as long as he gave us a head's up. He would text his dad that he just wanted to come by for an hour to play on his computer. Then he would declare that he was hungry, and we would order him a pizza. He would then have his pizza, and leave the leftovers instead of taking it with him. The next day, he would text again to see if he could come over to finish the pizza. He would then find another excuse to stay a few more hours. Etc. He is quite manipulative, so that's how he would and still operates (less now in recent months). Ask for a crumb, and then take the whole pie.
I've posted before that SS is quite needy of dh. Even this weekend, I can see SS trying to monopolize his dad's time and attention, and SS will even glance over at his dad when they're not interacting. In the past SS has told his friends that he is a "daddy's boy". I remember when he said that during a multi-player online game, they laughed at him, so he never said that again. SS is very enamored of his dad, almost too much. But SS also seems to want to be here even when his dad is at work. I think it's because he still cherishes the hour or two that he could spend with dh at the end of the night before bed, And my presence was either worth tolerating to see his dad, but I also think that he gets a kick out of being here because he knows that means dad chose his wishes over mine.
In terms of 2., When SS was 14-16/17, BM was always trying to pawn SS off on us. She woulld even pick fights. Her go to was to pick a fight with SS, call dh to tell him that she "had enough". That would scare dh (and me), and dh would rush over to rescue them from each other. On one such occasion, SS stayed with us for several weeks and I did most of the care taking. Meanwhile, BM and SS would frequently call each other, lovey dovey like. What I thought was the worst fight between a parent and child I've ever seen was no big deal to them.
There was a stretch of about 8 months a few years ago in which dh took SS more than half time to try and get SS on a better track at school. I wasn't fully moved in yet, but I would spend a day or two each week with just SS and no dh. Again, BM was happy to have her time and keep her CS too.
All this to say that I think she exhausted her efforts to pawn SS off on us, and kind of settled into tolerating his presence. SS also became more calm as he got older. So things have been relatively more stable in the past year. I worry that taking CS off the table is going to stir things up again. She is pretty narcissistic. My fear is that without an extrinsic incentive, will she continue to shelter him even though ti will be on her dime now, or will she now cut him loose because she doesn't have anything to gain now? I know that's sad to say, but I do think in many ways, she's motivated by transactional-type gains.
The SKid is an adult. BM can demand whatever she wants.
Though you and DH have no duty to give a shit about what BM wants. You and DH can tell her to F-off, woman up, support herself, and that her relationship with her son is her responsibility. You and DH can and should be very specific in structuring the context and standards of behavior and performance for your relationship with the SKidult SS. If he calls mommy to whine, he needs to be told that she has zero say and no place in the relationship that he has with his father and with his father's family. A family that BM is not a part of in any way.
See how broke ass mommy likes having to grow TF up, be an actual parent, adult, and navigate a relationship with her adult child.
While I recognize that you are trying to create a soft landing for you, DH, BM, and SS, BM's landing is not your concern and it should not be your DH's concern either.
I do not understand the drive that anyone has to maintain some facade of family with an X. Not for one second after a divorce. Particularly when that X is not a viable adult and needs the help of an X to adult and parent a kid when that kid is with them. A CO structures the blended family interfaces until the SKid ages out from under the CO. Then there is zero duty by either X to contact the other or for one to financially or otherwise support the other.
If both Xs are reasonable and collaborative in their co-parenting under the CO I would say continued interface in emotional support of their joint progeny is possible though I would not be particularly supportive of it as a mate to one of those failed family Xs. I never called my son (SS who eventually asked me to adopt him) while he was on SpermLand visitation to cry and tell him I missed him. Neither did his mom/ my DW. When his pathetic POS SpermIdiot would call upon occasion to lament that my DW booted his serial statutory rapist ass to rescue her infant/toddler son from the shallow and polluted end of his baby gene pool, and to make a future for herself and her son she did not get all tender and caring about the DipShitiot. He would cry about missing his family and loving my DW, he never asked to speak to SS. She would laugh at him then ask if he wanted to speak to SS. He never once asked to speak with SS ever. No conversation between the SpermIdiot and my bride, no give a shit by my bride, just revulsion at his whiny spineless bullshit.
IMHO it is time for BM to be left in the past, you and DH to focus on each other and your marriage, and guiding SS in the early stages of his adulthood. Something his mother has no place or consideration in as it applies to you, DH, and SS. She earned her irrelevance. Do not make her relevant or tolerate anything about her in your lives. SS has to figure out that relationship for himself. As does BM.
IMHO of course.
DH must stop supporting his ex
His DS can't use your home as a flop house. If DH isn't there SS isn't there. He divorced his ex. He has to stop supporting her. You are the queen bee
You need to say to DH that
You need to say to DH that you have stood by his side as SS grew up , weathered all the drama that went with that and you are now ready to focus on marriage. That you have earned this time and you expect him to now put you and the marriage first.
Wow, you distilled the
Wow, you distilled the important stuff down to a few sentences. I complicate and overthink things, but this is a good focus to my energies on instead.
When does DH stop supporting BM.
They divorced for a reason. She had years to figure out CS was going to end . To get training , get a good job, She had all the time in the world for this. But instead she sat on her rear collecting CS , Not worrieing about the future. This is on her. Not your responsibility to support her.
I will put it like this.
I will put it like this. Your SS is an adult.. neither of his parents are obligated to house him. BUT.. they are both his parents.. and should both be interested in how the kid launches into adulthood.
Just sitting by and "hoping" the kid launches from mom's is not a great plan.
Your DH also should not approach it with a "money" gift ideology either.. I'm not saying that your SS may not need some financial support to get his feet under him.. but that's not what gets led with.
Your husband should understand where his son is headed in life.. where does the kid see himself in a year.. in 5 years.. in 10? What are his goals in life.. how does he plan to achieve them? If the parenting wasn't done to guide the kid forward in life before 18.. sounds like dad and mom need to do some of this now.
You can set boundaries on hosting his kid when he isn't there. But, you also may find your DH wants his son to be welcome in his home "whenever".. and that's a difficult situation to reconcile.
The danger here is that mom gets sick of a 20 yo son lazing about and eatiing her food.. and then he shows up on dad's doorstep bag in hand.. by encouraging your DH to push his kid for an independent life..NOW.. then that may become less of a concern.
I mean.. right now the kid is in community college.. maybe working a bit too.. that seems to actually not be unreasonable for him to be doing that.. I don't know if I would poke the bear of his mom bearing more costs right now since he lives with her.. though.. is dad helping with finances for college? It's not unreasonable for his dad to want to help if he can financially afford to, but that's a conversation you have to have to gether to set guardrails on what you feel is reasonable that doesn't take from your home finances or plans for the future (retirement)
ESMOD, IMHO you put it exactly right.
As usual.
Thanks Rags and Harry. Yes,
Thanks Rags and Harry. Yes, she had 8 years to prepare for CS to end (alimony ended several years ago). She doesn't really plan things. I don't get it because I'm a super planner. When alimony ended, she somehow rangled a full time, really good paying job. I was kind of surprised because she didn't have a very long work history. That job lasted less than a year, and then just some gigs here and there. Now that CS is ending, perhaps she'll get motivated again. But she's a little over 60 now. It's just going to get harder to find a job the longer she waits. But agreed, that's on her.
Esmod, thank you for your thoughts. There's a level of uncertainty now that BM is not being paid off. I'm sorry to say it that way, but I've always felt that she is not governed by an intrinsic concern for her son's welfare. Her calmness the last few years is only a concession after years of high drama with little to no concern for SS. But that decreased once DH stopped taking the bait. She still tries things here and there, but I got the sense that she's a little more careful now about causing trouble, and more motivated by the money.
I think your suggestions are good, though no guarantee that I will be granted what I hope for - not to have to live with SS full time. Just the thought makse my stomach knot. But for the reasons you give, that is possible if BM decides she's going to totally check out. DH would not abandon SS. I don't know BM very well. In the past she's wanted to get to know me, telling DH that she and I should hang out, have lunch, go shopping, etc., but both me and DH didn't want that. Meanwhile, while she was trying to become BFFs with me, she was sabotaging our kid-free weekends, manipulating visitations, etc. I'm pretty sure she just wanted to get to know me better so that she could have more fodder to manipulate and sabotage. But I have not spent more than 30 minutes in total talking with her with or without my dh. So I really can't say what she will do, but I do know she is narcissistic, unpredictable, and very much used dh to pay her bills.
I agree that having a part time job is very good, very normal for a 19 yo college student. SS was always kind of lazy, but he really likes money, and has worked somewhat steadily for a few years. But I think SS got fired from his job. He was laid off his last two jobs before this one as well. But no one is telling me. I just surmise that because instead of going to work, SS has been at home the last 4 weekends. When I ask DH whether SS should get up for work, he just says, "I don't think he's working today." DH is on this kick in which he never shares any bad news about SS with me anymore. I think that he thinks I will think more highly of SS if I don't know? I respect his choices, but I also feel a little bit out of the looop.
I'm not sure why anyone would want to be friends with their SO's
I'm not sure why anyone would want to be friends with their SO's X. I don't want my X or my SO's X having any place in our life, marriage, and family. Much less some friendly position. If they are reasonable, dea with them reasonably. If they are not reasonable, rip out their throats. Either way, they are not a friend, a confidant, or anything else beyond a donor of procreative services.
Keep it simple.
There are of course rare examples when Xs and their mates can engage pleasantly and reasonably. Not sure how that would work, but apparently it does happen.
I'm also not sure how you can respect SO's choice to lie to you by omission.