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Boyfriend's sister has a problem

knighk18's picture

This is going to be a jumbled mess of emotion and frustration. I'll preface it by saying this is a culmination of about 2 months worth of crap that finally boiled over and a lot of my words are just raw emotion because I've had to censor myself so much in order to deal with the situation appropriately.

Ok, so my best friend (we'll call her Mary) of 7 years is the one that introduced me to my boyfriend (who we'll call Pete). She set us up and we hit it off and that's the end. Some background about those relationships, though.

Pete and Mary didn't speak for 3 years because Pete's ex-wife and Mary didn't get along. At all. So the ex-wife basically alienated Pete from his family and Mary and I were friends during that time, and a lot of our conversations were about how hurt she was by not having a relationship with her brother. However, once he left the ex and they started talking again, neither of them ever addressed the issues they had with one another because they both avoid anything resembling conflict (or conflict resolution) like the freaking plague.

Mary and I have had our own issues. She is a very peculiar person and very hard to get to know. She's been in a miserable marriage for 16 years (that has produced 4 children, one of whom is a constant source of dysfunction, smoking pot, burglary, going to jail, etc.), with a man that cheats on her constantly, is unkind to her and their children and just generally isn't a good person. She acknowledges all of this, but basically says she would rather stay unhappy and comfortable than be alone and have to figure out how to parent her kids without another adult. The only reason these things are important is because I think it shows a little bit of why she may be the way she is in general.

Anyway, she has a habit of not really wanting people to be happy, I'm guessing because she isn't happy and never has been. She's got a good heart, and has always been there to help/listen/lend a shoulder...UNLESS she doesn't like your choices. Then she stops talking to you. And she is extremely manipulative. I honestly can't even accurately describe how she does this because it is SO underhanded, but she manages to turn any situation she creates into something created entirely by someone else and makes compelling arguments for why she isn't to blame. That's IF you can get her to talk about it.

I am the polar opposite of both Pete and Mary when it comes to conflict. I don't love conflict, but I do love resolving it before it manifests as bitter resentment. I think, in close relationships of any kind, you have an obligation to the other person to address issues you have directly with them and attempt to resolve them. And if you aren't going to address it, you better get really good and pretending like nothing's wrong. Because doing the verbal equivalent of slamming doors and throwing things while claiming "I'm not mad, nothing's wrong, don't know what you're talking about" is passive-aggressive and manipulative and unkind. And I hate that shit. This causes a problem with Mary in particular. Because she won't address anything. She'll just act differently and be passively judgmental. Again, I can't really describe how she does it, but you know when she's doing it. She asks questions about your life and then response with "Oh, I see" in this super judgy tone that makes you hate her a little bit. Anyway, twice before, she has stopped talking to me because she didn't like a guy I was dating. And I know, I know...my bad for letting her back into my life after that. I always just give her the benefit of the doubt because I know how screwed up her life has been and I do the "well, she has good intentions, she's just not a good communicator" thing. Apparently, i'm wrong.

Since Pete and I decided to move in together 2 months ago, Mary has been so weird. We went from talking 3-4 times a day to maybe talking 3 times a week. And when we did talk, it was so awkward. And trust me, I'm on that; I'm immediately asking her what's wrong, And she uses this "I don't approve of anything you're doing" tone while saying out loud "no idea why you think anything's wrong, maybe YOU'RE the one being weird." Uh, no, I'm trying to talk to you and you won't talk. That's you, not me.

I sound angry right now because I am, but when this first started, I was really hurt. I love her, she's my best friend. If I didn't care about her, my feelings wouldn't be hurt. So I sort of let it alone for awhile and thought "well, maybe she just needs time to figure out how to say what she wants to say." But it just kept going on. And since she still complains to me about never seeing her brother (because he doesn't really put all that much effort into their relationship), I constantly invite her to stuff. And 75% of the time, she has a reason she can't/won't come. The rest of the time, she comes and then acts annoyed and in a hurry to leave the whole time. Rude.

I encouraged him to seek out alone time with her because I though maybe she wanted that. He won't do it, and she won't talk to him about how she feels, so nothing ever gets resolved. But, not my problem, I've tried. They're grown, they can work that out.

So two days ago, Pete and I are sitting on the couch just talking. He gets a text from Mary that says, and I'm quoting: "Any way we can have dinner tonight? Or do you have to bring HER along?" And he doesn't hide his phone when he gets texts, so of course I saw it. And I said "What's that about?" He doesn't know. So he tells her he's busy that night but what about one night during the week? And her response is "week days don't work for me, and she can't bear to be away from you for one second, so just never mind. I don't want her there at all anyway."

That almost sent me over the edge. He immediately crawls inside himself because he can see the drama coming and wants no part of it. So we had a long drive to run some errands and visit my grandmother and right before we leave, he tells me Mary texted him and asked him if I had seen that text? And he told her yes and her response is "I figured, she made it so obvious when I talked to her." Then proceeded to say "I don't care, she's only my friend when you're at work anyway." Um, A) that is patently untrue. You won't speak to me, so eventually, I stop calling you. And Dirol if you have this problem, why don't you talk to me so we can work it out?

Anyway, Pete and I talk about this in the car and I'm heated. So he's texting her, I guess to try to find out what's wrong between the two of us, to be helpful. And he lets me read the convo and she basically says that I'm exactly like his ex-wife, that I've changed everything about myself for him, that I don't want him to have relationships with anyone else, and that I've complained about his kids 24/7. So that just sent me all the way over the edge. I shouldn't have reacted, honestly, because that's his sister. But she is so full of shit. And I told him that. and then it turns into this argument about how I should just let it roll off my back and be fine with it because she just kicked her husband out, she's broke, she's having a hard time.

Ok, fine. But I've tried to help her through that and she doesn't want any help. I've tried to get her to tell me what her issue is with me and she refuses to do so. So yeah, I'm a little peeved that she has no problem spewing this crap to him but can't do the reasonable thing and address it with me. The person she's mad at. Anyway, I've pretty much decided i'm over her. I'm not going to be (nor should I have to be) in a friendship with someone who makes me feel bad. If she doesn't want to communicate and if this is how she operates, that's fine; but it doesn't work for me.

He thinks I'm being unreasonable. Why, I don't know. Probably because it's his sister and she's so quiet about her shit, and I'm an outward reactor. I'm also a good friend and a caring person and I've spent a lot of time chasing her down to get her to explain to me why I should apologize and I'm done doing that.

I can't possibly recount the whole 5 hours of arguing we did over this, but I want to point out a couple of things:

Her saying i'm just like the ex and I complain about his kids are deliberate wedges she's throwing out there to get in between he and I. She's a manipulator, and she knows those are his two big triggers. THAT is unacceptable behavior to me.

She's been posting passive-aggressive facebook statuses for two days (i.e. Be careful who you call friends. I'd rather have 4 quarters than 100 pennies.) Really? Come on.

She said I'm too sensitive and i'm just mad that I wasn't invited to dinner. Again, that's her being manipulative. I must be too sensitive, it can't possibly be that she's just being bitchy. Because she also said "I don't know why that would upset her, I'm going through a hard time and just need my brother. She's being ridiculous." Ok, well you didn't say "Hey, can we have dinner just the two of us? I really need you right now and would like to have some time alone with you." You said "...or do you have to bring HER along?" But I like how it gets twisted into something I've done wrong.

He swears she's not smart enough to be manipulative; uh, she is. I promise. And he thinks I should just pretend like everything's fine. I disagree. Here are my questions.

1. Does anyone see something other than manipulation? I'm willing to be wrong.
2. Why is it "wrong" for me to just not want to have someone in my life that makes me feel bad?
3. Ultimately, I get that she's his sister. So since this isn't just a person he doesn't know, is it my responsibility to just put up with her crap in order to keep the peace? I genuinely don't want to be the reason they have another falling out, but talking to her about it is out of the question. We've tried talking, it doesn't work because she doesn't talk.
4. If I just delete her off my FB and don't reach out to her (while also not saying anything unkind), is that appropriate? Or do I owe her some kind of explanation?
5. If I just end the friendship, it's going to be awkward for someone. But if I keep talking to her just to make him happy, it's going to be awkward for me, and it's also going to make me feel bad. So am I being selfish?

misSTEP's picture

dtzyblnd, are you on here today? She would be a good one for you to talk with. She has a very similar situation with her SIL.

Secondly, I know you say you are friends with her but WHY?? She sounds like a toxic emotional vampire. That is not a good person to have for a friend. Of course your BF needs to have a relationship with her. It is his sister. But it is up to THEM to hammer out how they are going to relate to each other. They are both adults.

It seems like she is jealous of any woman who he spends time with. He doesn't do much to facilitate their relationship and instead of her realizing that, it is easier to blame it on whatever woman he is with at the time. Chances are, he's had issues with his sister and ALL the women he has dated, not just his XW.

knighk18's picture

"Why?" is a very good question Smile I think that's where I'm at. All the talking that was done, all the disagreeing with me aside...when I sit and think "is there anything positive happening in this friendship that makes it redeemable?" The answer is no. I've always had a hard time just cutting people off. I think because I like to believe people grow and change (especially in their 20s, into their 30s) and I certainly don't want to be judged for eternity based on a rough time in my life that doesn't really define me.

But good lord, this is just her pattern. And I agree, they can figure out how to make it happen without me. And what that looks like is her inviting him out all the time without me to prove a point, never coming to any function where I am and then blaming me for it. And he's neutral because he doesn't want conflict, so it's not like he's going to tell her she's wrong no matter how wrong she is. Which again, whatever...she's his sister, I'd want my sister to be on my "side" too. But it's really hard to be the bigger person and say I'm fine with being blamed, because I'm not. If she didn't want things to be awkward, then stop making shit awkward!

And I agree. People have been saying "maybe she's jealous" for awhile and I never like to jump to that conclusion because it feels arrogant of me. But I don't know what else it could be. And you just made me have an "a ha!" moment with this: He doesn't do much to facilitate their relationship and instead of her realizing that, it is easier to blame it on whatever woman he is with at the time." Agree! She does realize it because she complains about it, but I don't think she internalizes it. And I did tell him (which probably wasn't appropriate, but I was mad) that if this is how she treated the ex, it's no wonder the ex hated her. And if this is how she treats her friends, it's no wonder she doesn't have any other close friends.

Of course, he made up some lame excuse because "poor mary, she just never learned how to be a good friend/communicate/be honest/decent/kind, etc." That poor girl never had a chance, apparently. And, it also seems as though no one really expects her to learn how. Again I say, fine, go be that person. But be that person somewhere else because I don't want any part of it.

What makes this situation so sticky for me is that she's not just my friend, she's his sister. And she's not just his sister, she's my friend. If he didn't know her, the answer would be "we're done, go be who you're going to be away from here" and i'd just wash my hands of it. I do hold myself to a standard of being kind no matter what other people are doing (although I obviously fail sometimes) so I feel obligated in some sense to treat her respectfully simply because it's the right thing to do. However, I feel like that sentiment would be better reserved for her if she was just my boyfriend's sister and we weren't closely acquainted. The relationship is such that it makes it harder to just deal with her crap because we've been such good friends; I don't want friends like that so not having friends like that equals not being her friend. Not being her friend equals uncomfortable situation for everyone. It's sticky.

Carah's picture

Wow Ditzy....well done well said applause applause maybe i should take this approach with MIL

Carah's picture

I wish I were that strong. I can normally tell people exactly what I think or feel but have a hard time when it comes to his family. Maybe it's just trying to spare feelings but I get screwed in the end and not even kissed first lol

Jsmom's picture

You need to cut all communication with her...She is toxic and showing you exactly who she is. He can have a relationship with her, but you do not need to.

knighk18's picture

I'm on board with that, believe me:) I'm just having a hard time figuring out how that works. Because of the history with them being at odds because of the ex, I'm reticent to do things that are similar to that because, no matter how justified I am, it just looks like history repeating itself to the two of them. That's what makes it hard.

We just talked when he called home for lunch and I simply said "I will handle my friendship with her separately from your relationship with her and I will just attempt to not discuss issues pertaining to her with you in order to minimize conflict. However your relationship with her looks, you guys can work that out." He seemed slightly puzzled, but mostly ok. I can't really do anything beyond that where he's concerned.

knighk18's picture

Scapegoating, for sure! I really am starting to believe that she just wants someone to blame for whatever issue she's having. I hate calling people "jealous" or things that are similar because it really does feel arrogant. Like I'm so amazing, people are jealous...that makes me feel ick. But there's got to be something going on there, because look, I get that this happened with his ex; she's kind of an unkind person. But his sister and I were best friends long before I ever even met him! So if this is how she treats her friends, I cringe to think at how she treated the ex.

And you're right, she is the common denominator. And whatever will be, will be. If she's going to squawk in his ear about how I'm just like the ex and tell him how awful I am about his kids, and if he's going to listen to that nonsense and let it affect the relationship, I'll find that out soon enough. I can't do anything about them.

But I can absolutely disengage, like you said. But to clarify: Do you mean just leave her on my FB, respond to her if she texts/calls and be pleasant? Or it's ok if I really disengage and just don't have anything to do with her? I don't care what she says if it's not in my face. But if I'm forced to look at it/see it/hear it, that will be harder to handle.

knighk18's picture

"Tell me if this sounds familiar. She is always the victim, but plays it off like she wants no sympathy. All the while she posts things on facebook, or says things to get a specific reaction. (In the case of my SIL it is about how she misses her mom so much and how she was the best mom/grandma and she thinks of her all day everyday. Really though, she and her mom didn't speak for years before she died.) She has to control everything and is 'happy' as long as things are going her way, (she used to praise our relationship and thanked me for bringing her brother back into her life) but when she doesn't get her way there is hell to pay. Does she throw tantrums that would rival a toddler?"

OMG, yes!!! That entire paragraph is her. The only thing she doesn't do is throw tantrums. I mean, she does, but not like a toddler. She's very even-tempered as far as her demeanor. She never yells, she speaks in sort of a flat/even tone, where I outwardly react more. So it almost lends credence to her "I'm not mad" claims because she doesn't visibly act mad. It's her tone, her word choice, etc. But wow, that's exactly her. She's the victim but claims she wants no sympathy. Does the same thing about relationships (like talking about people as though they were the best of friends, when they really had no relationship or even hated each other. Geez, it's like you know her! Smile

I have told my boyfriend as much as you said; and I really DO want him to have a relationship with his sister. Family is important, and even though I kind of hate her stupid face right now, ultimately I want her to have a relationship with her brother because I care about her and want her to be happy. But I just don't want any part of it.

knighk18's picture

I don't feel bad in the sense that I know, based on her history, this isn't going to get any better. So I'm just sort of over it. On a more human level, though, I also understand what a damaged person she is and that a lot of people have walked about of her life and I feel like me doing the same just reinforces for her that people don't love her enough. But come on, at some point you have to start repairing yourself! You don't get a free pass to treat people poorly because you're damaged; we're all damaged and we all have to fix ourselves. I also feel bad because no matter how I do it, it's going to be awkward for my boyfriend.

I really do want him to have a relationship with her. I always have. I always viewed us ALL getting to spend time together (me with her, him with her) as a huge benefit to dating him! And it's not like they hang out all the time; but she's already pushing him to come hang out more and it's only been 3 days. Either way, she's his sister. I wouldn't want someone nagging me about hanging out with my sister if they didn't like her. The difference is that my sister isn't crazy or unkind, though Smile

I still have work ahead of me. He says, very kindly, "do what you think is best for you, and I'll support whatever decision you make." He also has a tendency of being supportive in order to avoid a conversation about not being supportive. Sort of like apologizing when he isn't wrong in order to end a fight Smile But no, he doesn't really get it. He agrees that she's saying hurtful things, but he doesn't agree that she's manipulative. And he thinks I should just pretend she hasn't been hurtful and pretend to be nice. Which I understand, in theory, but not everyone can put that into practice. She isn't a stranger to me. She's my best friend. And so much damage has been done that I know I'm not capable of just pretending it didn't happen and being nice. Perhaps not being a good pretender and not being able to be fake in order to tow the line are character defects of mine, but I just can't do that.

And I gotcha about the tantrums:) She sort of does that. It's so hard to describe her. She says things in such a way that it seems like she's not bothered by them. She'll say "my dog died" in the same way she says "I had a bagel for breakfast." Does that make sense? So if someone says "Oh, i'm so sorry about your dog" she can look at them and go "I'm totally fine, no worries." And you can't really prove she isn't fine because of her tone. Does that make any sense? Ugh, it drives me insane!

not2sureimsaneanymore's picture

What I see is a mixture of things because I have a friend like this--she has a miserable relationship with her boyfriend, but they've been together for 8 years so comfort and security is more important than happiness. What this has resulted in is that she doesn't truly want others to be happy--sure she'll disguise her advice to you as genuinely caring about you, but she really wants your relationship to fail, just like hers.

(i.e. say you're mad at your SO because he was inconsiderate about something, normal guy thing, normal relationship tiff, tell her and she'll say he's an asshole and you should break up with him and that he will never make you happy etc. etc. She'll make what he did sound like the end of the world, even if he only forgot to load the dishwasher, and if you don't break up with him or give him hell for it, you're being a pushover.)

This friend began to have more and more problems with DH after we moved in together when we were dating too, and began to nitpick about him if I talked to her about our relationship. Because of that I drifted farther away from her, and she tried to cling on tighter. The thing is, she got annoyed that I was spending so much time with him, and didn't have as much time to talk to her and see her as she would have liked. The tighter she clung and tried to push my DH away from me, the farther I drifted from her. I think in your Bf's sister's case, she feels it from both sides, the two most important people to her are together and don't have as much time for her anymore.

The thing that struck me about your post the most is that outside of her miserable relationship, she really has no other friends, just like my friend. That compounds the issue because they have no one else to focus their time with.

knighk18's picture

You know what's so sad? She and I lived like 65 miles apart until I moved in with her brother, so we literally only saw each other maybe once a month, and that's being generous. When I moved out here (even before that, when I was sort of unofficially living here), we both invited her to stuff ALL the time, every weekend, during the week. I was excited to get to spend more time together. So she does act as though us being together impedes her spending time with us, but the reality is she has the opportunity to see both of us more and now seems to resent me for it. I really, really don't get it.

But I absolutely identify with what you're saying about your friend. Miserable people like others to be miserable. And I do think that me being happy with her brother really bugs her, because she isn't happy and won't go make herself happy. So when she says "you've changed who you are" that's not really what's happening; I'm just happier and I have someone I enjoy spending time with and therefore, I spend more time doing things I didn't do before because we do them together. Maybe that's a sign of me being open to new experiences, rather than a sign that I'm changing my personality Smile

And yes, she doesn't have any other close friends. However, she certainly acts as though she does now that we're on the outs. She's not an emotionally expressive person, but the last couple of days, she's all over facebook with people she can't stand saying "I love you" and "thanks for being such a good friend." It's like, shut up...really? If that's for my benefit, I really don't get what you're trying to prove.

emotionaly beat up's picture

Take Ajsteps advice. And now you know what the ex wife unfairly suffered. When I first became a part of my husbands family, I could do no wrong, the ex could and never did anything right. It didn't take me long to understand the ex let me tell you. It's not you, it's them.

knighk18's picture

Yeah, I mean, his ex isn't a very nice person. None of the friends like her, I met her with a fairly open mind and I just found her to be unfriendly. Not mean or crazy, just unfriendly and like she doesn't have time to be nice to people. However, there could be a lot of reasons for that; like, I don't know, that I'm dating her ex-husband and helping raise her kids and that makes her uncomfortable.

whatever the ex's issues are, I absolutely believe that in this situations, my boyfriend's sister is the common denominator. Perhaps his ex didn't like her because she treated her this way. Maybe that's not why no one else liked the ex, but it's probably not just the ex's fault that his sister and her didn't get along.

oldone's picture

Simple rule: Remove toxic POS people from your life. period. dot.

No good comes from having assholes in your life. Of course we all must be civil and polite to people that we have to be around. But that does not mean we actually have a relationship with them.