Alienation…early warning signs?
Hello
I know that PAS is a very serious issue and that things need to be quite far along the line for someone to even be considering that kind of label, but what are people's experiences of the very early signs?
My SD11 has been changing towards us recently. I used to get along with her Mom but one day something changed (SO has no idea but guesses, given her past history, that it could be something completely trivial like not returning an item of their clothing on time). Since that changed, SD has not wanted to come to stay. She sees SO at his house (we're living apart for work reasons) twice a week and most of the time goes along happily with her dad but when she has to come to stay at my house, she starts crying uncontrollably at BM's door that she doesn't want to go. Recently, she finds excuses not to go with her dad for the visits during the week (homework, school project at a friend's house, etc). not all the time but more and more. Now, she is getting older and so I guess this could be part of normal growing up but it does seem odd that it ties in with BM's sudden shift in attitude towards me.
BM calls all weekend whenever the skids are with us. Whenever SD gets in trouble, she runs upstairs and calls BM. SD has her own phone and, despite my best efforts to clamp down on this, SO doesn't prevent her from calling. To me, this kind of contact gives the kids a clear message that there is something to be feared about spending time with us.
BM is obsessive about the skids not leaving any clothing here. She gives the skids such a hard time about it. Even clothes me and my family have bought for skids eventually makes it back to their house and is never seen again.
BM grills the kids about what we are all doing. I hear them responding to her when she calls. Yet SO says SD won't tell him anything about their time with BM.
SD is more and more shirty with SO. Not quite a teenager, so it's not all hormones! She has shifted from a VERY talkative kid to a one-word-answer kid in the space of three months.
BM always wore to SO that if he ever left her, she would nail him to the wall. Now, on the face of it, she's been very cooperative but she's subtle. I worry sometimes that the drip drip drip effect is much more damaging (or at least AS damaging) as the all-out "your Dad's a bad man" type alienation.
How can you tell if this kind of thing is going on?
Sam
SO refuses to see it. We do
SO refuses to see it.
We do have some difficulties on a practical level with giving SD and SS their own space here. We can't rent a bigger house (SO isn't even living with me at the moment so I pay the rent with very little help from him) and I can't afford to get a bigger place just so that his kids have a bedroom just for four nights a month, when my kids live with me full time and don't even have their own rooms. Still, that is no excuse for SO not engaging in getting BM to respect their need to keep stuff here. I am talking non-stop comments and nagging when a goddamn sock goes missing. A sock? A pair of old track pants! About a month ago we fell out because SO felt really guilty because he had forgotten SD and SS's swimsuits at home and that meant they couldn't swim in our community pool. When I suggested that they leave a swimsuit here, he said he had suggested that before to SD and she had thrown a fit saying BM would be mad. And SO did nothing. I went crazy because MY mom had bought SS's swimsuit for Christmas and me and SO had bought SD's swimsuit and I felt he should insist they leave them here for them to use. I swear to God it is heartbreaking watching those kids search around desperately for their stuff when they leave here because they are so scared she will freak out when they get home.
My family has bought so many gifts for skids over the years and EVERY EVERY EVERY thing has gone home with them to BM's house. SO will not put his foot down and make them leave stuff here. The result is:
1. Big fat message to kids that "your stuff is not safe here" (like my kids are going to steal their stuff)
2. They arrive on our doorstep having to beg to borrow my kids' toys and stuff all weekend long. I hate this because it always leaves my kids as the bad guys and his and the poor waif victim kids with nothing. For me, that just breed hatred and resentment on all sides.
When I try to talk to SO about this he just accuses me of driving him even crazier with guilt than he already is about leaving his kids, reminding him of what BM is like. Either that or he accuses my kids of somehow causing his kids to not want to be around…for not sharing their things enough. It is really rare that my kids don't share. OK, if they just got a new thing for their birthday or something, they tend to be a bit more possessive about it, and SS6 does tend to break stuff, which SO never fixes or replaces and that leads to a little bit of doubt about sharing new/special stuff.
I think I will have to look up some stuff about alienation, like you said, and show it to him. He doesn't seem to see that I can be objective and look out for his kids, just seems to think I'm trying to turn him against BM. It will be good for him to see something in print. An opinion that's not mine. Thanks for the suggestion.
I have to say, I was surprised at your responses, I really thought I was being paranoid. See what SO does to me??