breaking point ...

Hello, this is the first time I've done something like this but it's clear i definitely need to start looking for some help on this problem.

A little less than two years ago i moved in with a woman with a 10 year old boy (just turned 12 now). I've never been very good with kids but at times have had a good rapport with certain kids. The boy had spent nearly his entire life having his mother all to himself - no siblings and the father left when he was about a year old. The father lives nearby and is a nice guy though a slacker and living with his mother. He takes the kid every other weekend (sort of) and at other times when necessary. The kid likes his dad, as do i, although he is obviously not the greatest role model and often you cannot count on him doing what he says.

I would say there are 3 or 4 main aspects to our problem.
1) there is a problem of jealousy. The kid's jealousy of me and perhaps worse, my jealousy of the kid. He is very close to the mother and when he is around sort of demands total attention. It's hard for us to ever have a conversation if he is there. This is perhaps partly my problem somehow but the kid sort of likes to talk non-stop - and if not talking he's got to be making noise or something. When he is around i almost always feel totally off to the side. That i could maybe put up with if so much of his talk and behavior were not so annoying. Or perhaps i am just annoyed because i don't want him there period.
2) The mother has very different limits and ideas on parenting than what i have. Lots of the kid's behaviour is really annoying to me and i find it rude and bad manners, but for her it is no big deal. So my limits are being surpassed all the time and i am always the bad guy for demanding things that i think should just be done out of decent manners and respect for others. Well i understand that often this is not a matter of right and wrong but just personal preferences. Also i believe in using discipline and various forms of punishment (not physical punishment but say not allowing video games for a certain time or whatever) and she doesn't. I believe in giving him a decent allowance but then not buying him stuff all the time when he asks for it. She gives him a tiny allowance and caves when he puts pressure on her for what he wants - he knows if he gives it a good effort that 9 times out of 10 she'll give in and he'll get what he wants. I think the kid should be doing stuff around the house to help. But if i don't demand he do something then the mother never does. I can ask the mother to demand it and she'll do that. Sometimes though if i don't jump in he'll get out of doing what she asks by various strategies. He's a master at playing her and knowing her weaknesses - mainly her lack of desire for conflict and lack of desire to be an authoritarian. Seeing this all the time really bugs me and is a constant irritant. We've made some progress on his participation as he is gradually doing more. But due to a lack of structure to it, it tends to always be a fight - for example he is not required to do any certain chore, it is just a matter of us asking him to do something. Again i think the mother's lack of structure and consistency helps contribute to this.
3) Finally there is just a total lack of positivity between the child and i. When i first met him i thought he was a sweet kid. He does have that side i guess, kind of like his father. And the mother is a really kind, sweet person. But we have zero in common. He likes some sports but they are things i've never really done. He likes video games and lord of the rings and the role-playing fantasy stuff that is the thing now with kids here. But it's all stuff that i never have cared for as an adult nor as a kid. Besides that there is just no chemistry between us. Certain kids i can look into their eyes and it's hard to explain but there is a certain mutual understanding or something there. But he and i are really two different fish.

My initial strategy was disengagement - just try to stay out of it. As time has gone on i find that to just not work. I live there. We eat dinner together. We share the breakfast table together often. There is all the work to do at the house and i don't like the idea of a 12 year old never contributing. We spend time on the weekend together. To just ignore everything all the time is just too much.

I've also tried being engaged - taking an active role, setting my limits, demanding he help around the house, etc. The problem with that is that it turns out that all the contact between the boy and I is negative - i am telling him to stop doing something he wants to do or telling him to do something he doesn't want to do. Whether i start out being nice about it or not i often wind up having to be fairly forceful for him to react (he is very accustomed to ignoring what his mother tells him to do and getting away with it). Even if he does do what i say right away it is clear that he resents it. I think he often gets me back with more obnoxious behavior.

Last weekend he had his 12th birthday. It's almost like an alarm clock as his behavior has gotten worse in a typical way for that age. I mean it seemed like he changed about a week before turning 12. He's gotten worse and i am wearing out. It's like having something that irritates the same spot for a long time - at first you can put up with it but eventually if it continues it can get really painful. I feel like we are near a breaking point. We can't continue much longer unless something changes. I am mad all the time and the atmosphere is getting to be horrible.

I wonder how much of this is my fault for not being a positive fatherly type person. And for not really liking him - and now it is getting to where i really hate him most of the time. I definitely resent his being there, but of course he has more right to be there than i do.

I've perhaps made it sound as though the mother is totally permissive and the child is totally spoiled but that is not the case. But in truth i'm not exactly sure. He's pretty good about doing his homework and getting ready for school. She gets on him for some things - i guess the things she feels compelled to. There is a lot of love between the two and they have a lot of fun together a lot of times. A fair bit of conflict as well.

Finally i wonder if this can ever work if the kid and i never develop anything positive between us. Many of my efforts have been rejected - teaching him to play tennis he rejected the idea without a second's hesitation, and this before the bad stuff had developed between us. He likes to get up earlier than his mother usually wakes him - one time he asked me to tell his mother (she was working late that night, she's a nurse) to wake him up at ten 'til 7. She was in the shower at the time so i woke him up - this happened a couple of times and then he complained to his mother that i scared him when i woke him up - even though i had done it the smallest little sweety sweet voice i could manage. So she asked me to stop.

I'm not a natural father type. I'm not very good with kids - certainly not with all kids or kids in general - i could never be a school teacher. Also us having nothing in common, i am wondering if it is possible to make this work? There just seems to be nothing there to work with or build on.

We're not married so an obvious solution is for me to leave the two to their life together. But i love the woman and would feel horrible about leaving her. I would definitely feel like i was deserting her. But if we don't figure something out soon then i think we'll have no choice.

And by the way, i don't get some of the acronyms here. DH = desinated hitter? Daughter from Hell? Dead Husband? Dumb Husband? And BB = Big Brother? Bad Boy? Sorry for being a DH (Dense He-male)

I've rambled and rambled. For those who made it this far, thanks for listening.

LastStraw's blog
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Parenting

I feel for you, I went through a lot of similar stuff with my BS after my divorce. I found a book that helped a lot though, it's called "Parenting Teens with Love and Logic." It's an easy read, and once I started actually applying the principles to our every day lives things got a lot better. My son is now 16, getting almost straight A's, fairly helpful around the house, and he even went out and got a job. Hope this helps.

Have you and your GF talked about any of this?

I mean, really sat down and just talked? This is going to be an issue for you two for at least the next 6 years. You and she seeem to have some ideas in common, but you need to discuss how all of this is affecting you (and your relationship). For example, you said that it really bugs you that her son doesn't do more around the house. A little bit of research on the internet should turn up some articles on how responsibility for chores is a good way to teach kids life skills and self-respect, two things most parents want their kids to have. As a teacher, I know that the kids whose parents give them everything as opposed to making them earn what they want, often have a hard time in school. They don't want to do the learning; they want us to just give them the answers. Pointing out (in gentle terms) that she is doing him a disservice might help her realize that she needs to toughen up a little in how she deals with him.

I also think that you are not as bad with kids as you think. Most people who aren't around kids a lot feel uncomfortable with them. And a lot of the habits of a 12 year old are annoying - I deal with them on a daily basis! However, the simple fact that you are here asking about how to deal with this, shows that you do care about him. I know you are worried about not having anything in common with him. You might want to try just asking him about to talk about his interests. The fantasy role-playing is probably an escape mechanism for him - talking about it with him might give you some insight into how he is feeling. Finally, you said that you have to get a bit forceful to get him to do what you ask him to do, and then he seems resentful. That is a natural response. No 12 year old likes to do what he is told, but the fact that he does what you ask him to do is a positive.

Now, as far as the acronyms - DH = dear husband or damn husband, depending, BM = biological mom, S = step, B = bio.

I hope that helps.

marika

This is a very common

This is a very common problem. What worked for us, because we had very different discpline styles in the beginning, was to sit down and make up a list of rules together. You want to narrow it to the top ten biggies, if possible, because it's easier to manage that way. Maybe you come up with five and she gets five. But the key thing is that you both agree that the ten house rules, whatever they are, will be enforced. Period.

Next thing you do is determine punishments for infractions. What works best for kids this age is restriction of privileges... take away their electronics. Actually, take away whatever they value the most. If it's the cell phone, take it. Get 'em where it hurts. If it's the computer, take that. If it's TV, then unplug it. You decide now, ahead of time, what the punishment will be for the infractions. You should end up with two lists... a list of ten house rules and a list of punishments for breaking those rules, which are both posted in a prominent place in your home for all to see, like the fridge. This is your new bible for all matters of discipline.

Now for the hard part... you and mom BOTH have to agree to stick to the program 100% of the time. The reason you write it out on paper and post it is so that it sort of forces you to back each other up on discipline issues. If it's all there in black and white, then there can be no disagreements. You follow the program, period. You talk to the kid about it, make sure he reads and understands what is expected of him and what disciplinary action he can expect if he does not hold up his end of the deal. Then it becomes the playbook for how you raise this child. As long as you stick with the program and provide a united front, then you can make it work.

Your biggest problem is not the child, believe it or not, it's the mother. If the child is ever to respect you as an authority figure, then the mother has to respect you as an authority figure. If she gets away with anything less, then he'll follow her lead and disrespect you, as well. It's YOUR home, too, and you have the right to certain expectations. Letting the child get away with stuff like this is only setting him up for failure as an adult. If he can't meet the minimal expectations of his parents, like keeping his room clean and doing certain chores, then how can he ever hope to meet the expectations of a wife, a boss, his own children?

Discipline is no longer a big issue for us, but we've had some other problems that we are working on with the help of the Relationship Rescue book/workbook. It's been very enlightening and has helped us get on the same page about a number of things. I think the most important thing you two can do is find a way to get on the same page and make a commitment to stay there. Providing structure and a unified front is the best thing you can do for this kid.

Acronyms:
DH = Dear Husband (or dickhead, if he's being one.)
DW = Dear Wife
BM = Bio mom (Sometimes you see BB, for bio bitch.)
EW = Ex-wife
EH = Ex-husband
BS/BD = Bio son, bio daughter
SS/SD = Stepson, stepdaughter
SM/SF = Stepfather/stepdaughter
BF = Depending upon context, this can mean boyfriend or bio father.
SO = Significant other
STBH = Soon-to-be husband
WWOTE or WWOTW = Wicked Witch of the East or West

Other plays on words... sometimes I'll say someone is being a stupid fish, which translates to dum bass or dumbass.

Welcome! You're among friends who've been there and done that.

~ Anne ~
BM of BS9 and BD4; SM to SD15, SD14 and SS11.

"Nobody can make you feel inferior without your permission."
-Eleanor Roosevelt

I feel for you

You've gotten some great advice here...I guess my only comment is about you and your GF rather than the child. While you did say that you love her, you also said that you would feel horrible leaving them, that you'd be deserting them...so forgive me if I'm mistaken, but at this point I am sensing that you are staying more out of obligation than anything else. If that is true...than your decision has already been made. It's not fair for any of you to stay because of guilt.

When I married STBXH, I had a bad habit of imagining life without his son. I'd fantasize that it was just DH, myself, and DD and I felt like I too could not connect with my SS...and when he was around, I'd feel like a stranger in my home. This made me angry and I'd go back to wishing how things "could" be. I know now that this is very dangerous thinking. It definitely affected my feelings toward SS and made me impatient and intolerant. The situation is what it is...the SS is there and he's not going anywhere. But it's great that you are looking for help though and if you take the advice above about speaking to your lady and trying to find some common ground, things should improve. You ARE a good SF, even if you don't know it.

Remember too that you do not have to be this kid's best friend. You also don't have to take the place of his father. You don't even have to love him. SPs often feel guilty because they don't connect or even like their SKs very much...but that's human nature. You can't tell your heart how to feel. It's natural to want to connect, but if it's not working, you can't force it. That doesn't mean that this kid gets to be disrespectful or rude to you, however.

Also...this child is 12. In 6 years, he'll be 18 and maybe on his own. You have your ENTIRE lives together after that. If you look at it in the grand scheme of things...in a marriage/relationship of 40+ years, the time that the kid is around is not even half of that. If you truly love this woman, you will find a way to make things work. Perhaps therapy might also be a good option. A professional may be able to help you two to communicate, find out where you are butting heads and why, and help you both determine what you want out of your relationship and how to get it.

Good luck!
Krissy

thanks everyone

for the support and replies.

I think as far as the work around the house goes, my GF is not in such disagreement with me - i think we can eventually get things worked out there.

As far as rules and manners and discipline and such, that is a real problem. You guys tend to see things about like i do, but my GF doesn't. Anne i could probably work things out with you - we have a similar approach - but my GF has some basic philosophical objections to that approach. We have a real problem there. For one they lived together for 10 years without all the rules i would like to have. Second, like i say, she seems to be philosophically opposed to that sort of thing - rules, discipline, punishment, etc. Ironically, every now and then the kid pisses her off enough that she gives him a clack - not often - maybe every 6 months or so. Thing is i'd like to see a more constant, reasonable, consistent sort of discipline. But this big difference between us is a major problem - difficult for us to have a united front right now.

But perhaps if we discussed really in more detail we could arrive at more agreement. I think she kind of reacts to things i say - or overreacts - assuming i want to install a boot camp in her house for her kid. We probably need to spend more time talking about it. She might feel opposed in general but when you actually get down to details it might be easier to work some things out. On the other hand she has mainly rejected my notions in that direction.

A big problem is - as probably everyone here has observed - a lot of times the obnoxious behavior is a bit hard to put your finger on exactly - it's a slight tone of voice, a certain choice of words. You call this kid on it and man is he good at putting on the innocent - oh what a little angel he is then! Plus then there is a lot of the just kid stuff - sometimes i'm sure it's just innocent kid stuff but i find it really annoying, other times you get the feeling they're doing that kid stuff in order to be annoying.

But we have a wide gap between us on these issues. We stayed with some friends of her's once. Those two parents were her opposite - they didn't put up with any shit - the kids had to eat what they got fed and they had to help out all the time around the house. But man the two boys, one was 12 at the time and the other a little older - were they ever mature. The 12 year old could cook, clean, do all kinds of stuff around the house. And they did. He is so far ahead of my GF's kid. Also they were nice kids. I brought this up to her and she just didn't want to use that sort of discipline on the kids. The parents would really use strong voices to get the kids to do things if they needed to. I mean roaring like lions almost. But no singing and acting goofy at the table and all that sort of thing.

As for someone's question, we have talked about this stuff, but obviously we need to talk some more.

Of course as i see others on here express, i am just not happy to share the house, the dinner table, my woman, my vacation, etc, with the kid. And i think all that mainly because i don't like him. And i don't know if it's just him or if it would be that way no matter who he was. I think he has a certain amount of charm, but it doesn't work on me - just not my style. Oh well, i'm starting to chill. I really appreciate the comments.

Finally yeah i did express it as though i'm staying as somewhat of an obligation. I do feel that way to an extent. Or at least i am conflicted. I have two reasons for wanting to leave - one is the kid and the other is i came here to France with a job and now i would really like to quit the job. And believe me i'm not doing any support groups for that - i just wanna quit! - difficulty would be finding another job here and another difficulty is immigration - in another year or so though, i can apply for a 10 year residence card and then think about quitting the job. But quitting the job now would almost certainly mean going back to the u.s. - that would be okay for me but not for her. In general though this issue has conflicted me from the start. I'd like my freedom to quit the job and go find a job or maybe self-employment wherever i wanted - and that would all be so much easier in the U.S. The other thing is that this area of france we live in is incredibly expensive and we can't afford to buy a house or apartment. You can find nice places to rent that are reasonable but the only place we could afford to buy are the neighborhoods you have probably seen in the news where they're burning all the cars (well not much of that in this town but there is a neighborhood like that and that is the only place we could afford!)

But doesn't love conquer all? Well i've never really felt like i really *needed* my GF. In fact (i am not so young anymore - mid-forties) it has been a really long time since i fell in love and felt like i had to be with that person. On the other hand i really love this woman. And, meaningful pause, i have always had the feeling she really needed me. Not necessarily me, me. But someone, and i happened to be there. And we have something between us. Also i have the feeling that part of why we work is maybe i needed to be needed. And i think she has been really good for me. She is a really good, sweet woman with a nice humor to her. And she treats me really well and is not perfect but i think one of the sanest people i've ever been around. Say all you want about not staying out of guilt, but try looking into the sweet loving eyes of a woman like that and telling her you're leaving. I can't imagine being tough enough to do it.

Okay...

...some more observations are coming based on your last post.

I feel like my situation is/was similiar to yours. I haven't moved to another country, but I did move hours away from my life and family for STBX. We did fall in love hard and fast, but that faded in time. We both really wanted to be with someone...not to be alone...like you said, to be needed and to need. IT just seemed right for us to get married and start a life together.

When I got a job down here, I knew right away that it was NOT the job for me. The salary is decent, but other than that, it's a nightmare. In a week I'd say I am busy maybe 30 min. TOTAL. There are times of the year (fall/early winter) when things are busier, but in general, it's torture. I also work about 1.5hr drive from my home, so I feel like I spend my life in the car and so much of my money on gas. Then I get home and have to deal with DH and SS and all the nonsense. I have no family or friends around here. Throw in the way our relationship has deteriorated and it's like I am living a nightmare with NO happiness but for my child, which is an unfair burden for her to carry.

I pondered for months on what to do...I really felt obligated to stay and help with SS, to be a "good wife" and do my duties here. My problem is less looking him in the face and telling him that I am leaving and more looking my 2-year-old in the face and telling her that her Daddy (he is not her bio but has raised her for 2 years as Daddy) and her brother are never coming back. Now THAT is hard! And it's what kept me here. I felt selfish and mean for even thinking about ripping her life apart. I wondered if it was me, could I do more to make life better, was I the problem, etc. Turns out, it does't matter--WE DON'T WORK. Life is TOO short to be unhappy. I know that hurting loved ones is difficult, but sometimes in order to love something we have to set it free...your GF deserves happiness too, and maybe letting her go to find it with someone more her style will be giving her the best gift you can imagine.

I just don't want you or them to suffer anymore. I spent MONTHS and MONTHS feeling like something was wrong and then being afraid to face it. But once I did...it really has made life so much easier. The stress is gone...I am looking for a new job...I will have my own home where I can do what I want when I want and not have to chase other people or "nag" them...no more trying to change a child whose parents are not willing to make an effort...no more looking at every single person I passed on the street and wishing I were them.

I truly wish you luck. I know it's hard. I hope that you can find happiness and peace.

krissy

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