still psychologically married
I think that many of the problems SM's face result from the fact that the BM in question may be legally divorced from our SO/DH, but is still psychologically married to them. I found this list of characteristics in an article about this very phenomenon, traits that indicate when a person has truly psychologically divorced the other person. For #6 and #7, I would also add that the person in question has appropriate boundaries about what information they seek about their ex's personal life and that the person in question does not try to access the ex's home uninvited.
1) I have released any guilt over the break-up of the relationship.
2) I can interact with my ex without any strong emotions or anxiety coming up for me.
3) I can co-parent in a way that does not put my child(ren) in between my spouse and me.
4) I do not expect my child(ren) to deliver messages to my spouse about adult/parenting matters.
5) I have no emotion around the idea of my spouse moving on to a new relationship.
6) I have appropriate boundaries regarding what information about my personal life I share with my ex.
7) My ex does not have access to my home uninvited.
I have little/no anger or resentment towards my ex.
9) I no longer seek my ex’s approval but I would like to maintain a healthy friendship if possible.
10) When I think back on the marital relationship I can reflect on the good times with nostalgia and gratitude, and without regret.
I know for me, #2, #3, #4, #5, #6 (regarding information being sought about the ex's life, rather than sharing), #8, and #10 still apply to BM and she's been remarried to someone else since I've known her. She's definitely still psychologically married to DH. Would love to hear about other people's thoughts and experiences.
i disagree that all bms are
i disagree that all bms are still married in their minds to their x husbands.
in my case bm left her husband and married her lover.
in turn dh became psychologically married to his own children as in mini wifes.
you get the picture.
Yeah, I don't think all BMs
Yeah, I don't think all BMs are still psychologically married to their ex husbands. I think that a lot of problems SM's have, stem from the ones who are still psychologically married.
And yes, totally agree that many divorced dads (and maybe divorced moms, too), become psychologically married to their children. I think that would be a different set of criteria, though.
I will also add that I think
I will also add that I think the BM in my case is also psychologically married to one of my SSs, even though she's also now married to another man.
My SS is 11 and he and his mother talk on the phone multiple times a day when he is with us. They also have a habit of taking pictures together where it either looks like he's flirting with her or they have their arms around one another in poses that seem more like girlfriend / boyfriend than mother / child poses. In a recent one, she was standing behind him with her arms around his waist and he was reaching up with one arm behind himself that had his hand on the back of her neck. He also didn't have a big smile on his face, more this weird contented look. I honestly fear for him as an adult or maybe I just fear for any girlfriends he might have.
I think those BM's who cause
I think those BM's who cause trouble are mostly bitter, jealous and entitled. Also selfish because they would rather put their kids through emotional hurt so long as they can cause trouble for ex and his new wife.
Our BM has been toxic from very soon after we got together until this very day 9 years later. I have only contacted my ex once and not in anger. I have moved on and don't care what he is doing. My sons are grown so that helps but some BM's are still spewing out the poison years after the kids age out. Our BM will be one of those. I fear it will not end until one of us is in the grave.
Yup, that describes the BM in
Yup, that describes the BM in my life to a T, but I think a lot of her bitterness is because she still has feelings for DH. He disagrees, but she's sent him long streams of texts saying "why do you hate me?!" In response to nothing in particular, sometimes in response to no response from him at all.
Now BM has decided she'll "get back" at DH by excluding him from things. She's said if he won't talk to her on the phone or reply to her texts (that are usually about some issue of hers that she wants him to fix) then she has no choice, but to not share anything with him about the kids. Um, she never shared anything before when they were talking daily, most of the things she said were about herself.
My plan is to move far away once the kids are adults. I know DH thinks that will make it seem as if he's abandoning his children, but my family lives far away and I'll be spending 8 years out here not seeing them much, so he can be around for his kids. I also think it would be a good idea if my SSs moved away from their mother, but I'm sure that won't happen.
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BM over here just thought
BM over here just thought that she could control DH forever because she had his kid. Even after they split, even after the divorce, she thought he would jump for her because of SD. She even told him that they would be bonded for life. Hahahahahaha! They are so bonded that he has not spoken to her for 8 years (since SD was 18).
We heard that here
We heard that here too.
There's a bond that people have when they create a child together.
It's called biology Lady, get over it!
When DH stopped taking BM's
When DH stopped taking BM's daily phone calls and also had language added to their CO that said they only communicate in writing, she sent him a text saying "so are you just going to stop talking to me when the kids turn 18? That's just sad on your part." I can't remember if he actually sent this response to BM or if he just told me, but he totally plans to not interact with her at all after the kids turn 18.
DH told BM that he had no
DH told BM that he had no intention of speaking to her again after SD aged out. She tested it and called him when SD was about 21. She found out that he was quite serious and hasn't tried contacting him since.
Anyone have advice on how to
Anyone have advice on how to break this still being "still psychologically married" to the ex?
Things have slowly gotten better. But, Bio kicks and screams when she does not have DH stop dropping and rolling for her. She wants to have his attention all day. He has tried his hardest to only speak to her 1-2 times a day. She is trying to stay "emotionally attached" to him. She tries to call him AT LEAST 3 times a day. Using the children to call and then she 99% of the time gets on the phone to ramble. Most of the time repeating what she has already spoke about. She could make anything "about the children" she uses them to stay connected and get attention form my DH.
She guilt trips him by saying if you don't answer my calls you don't care about your children... "Raising children isn't convenient" to the point where I think he starts believing her...
I don't see a need to speak to your ex multiple times EVERY DAY. We went to a therapist and the therapist told him he would have to choose HER or ME. She suggested he speak to his ex ONCE a week to go over schedules and such. I told him I was ok with once a day... keep it to the goodnight call. If it was in the morning BIO would just keep thinking of reasons to "Stay connected"
BIO literally can not get in the car if her new husband is not with her WITHOUT calling my DH.
Things have gotten better. BUT, not to where I am completely happy.
BIO also tries to control DH's time with the kiddos. Asking us not to cook chicken for dinner because she will be serving chicken the next night. Wanting to know our every move. Wanting to call every 2-3 hours or so or text "ARE MY KIDS OK?" She is a complete nutcase.
She also refuses to meet me. Which is another reason why I think she can't let go. If she met me it would make it all "real"
DH will avoid any event the stepkids have because he knows BIO doesn't ever want me to be a part of. DH says it is to avoid conflict and not hurt the children. I think HIS and MY lack of being present is what is REALLY hurting the children. I don't want them growing up thinking I or WE did not care about their dance recital or their Boy Scout event or school play.. etc.
I personally think my DH is more worried about BIO's feelings than the children. The children hear BIO yelling at DH about how he doesn't care about them because he doesn't go to their events. SHE is the one who is keeping us from going because she wants to have all these rules about what Stepmom can and can't do. I'm also not allowed to drop them off to her or school or take them to the target store without my DH with us. WHO CARES? I am their step mother not a stranger! DH says I can in case of an emergency... YET.. BIO Who doesn't work has her friends and family take the kids to and from school... Yet DH isn't allowed to have help? He has to depend on BIO (Keeping her connected ~ When he should be using me (His current wife) for support.
Bio has had DH several times put oil in her car and such. It's all a control thing. He says he does it for the kids... so the kids are safe in the car. BS!!!!!!! He does it for her!
I JUST WANT TO HAVE A NORMAL LIFE WITHOUT FEELING LIKE HIS EX CONTROLS OUR LIFE.
"I care about the kids, I
"I care about the kids, I just don't give a sh!t about you"
"I'm not your husband, don't expect me to behave like I am"
"why do you insist on trying to insert yourself in my home life? You're not a part of it, stop trying to act like you're in charge"
It will be difficult for your
It will be difficult for your DH to do, but he just has to bite the bullet and stop taking her calls. He could even say to her in writing "my counselor told me that I need to limit calls to you to once a week, so let's set a time." She'll probably come back and call him weak for talking to a counselor or saying that he's hurting the children, but it's really all about her.
I don't think your DH is more worried about BM's feelings, I think he's worried that what she's saying might be true...what if he really isn't caring about his children if he doesn't take her calls? I bet they had an emotionally dysfunctional relationship when they were married and I would also bet that BM was manipulative and emotionally abusive throughout their marriage. Your DH needs to realize that her behavior is not normal and the won't be harming his kids by cutting her off, he'll be protecting his own mental health.
Also, when the kids are with you, he needs to put his foot down around BM calling the shots. You are married to him, so you have more than enough right to do whatever he wants you to do with the kids. As for putting oil in her car, she has a husband, he can do the "man duties" in her house.
I would also suggest that maybe DH go to a counselor on his own to work through the issues he's obviously still dealing with from his marriage to BM. When I met DH he was doing a lot of the things your DH is doing - taking BM's calls multiple times a day, not doing things with the kids because she said not, to, etc. When I questioned him about some of those things, he said "I didn't even realize that this situation was not normal until you pointed it out. I was so used to her behavior that I just went along with it."
Chef was psychologically
Chef was psychologically married to the Girhippo for a looooonnnnng time after the breakup. He was overly concerned about what she may think as regards him parenting. Also both Chef and the Girhippo created mini-spouses amongst the three skids. Chef did it because he wanted to compete with the Girhippo for the title of "most fun parent," to get back at me for daring to advise that he and the Gir were creating monsters, AND that it was the last remnants of their failed relationship.
The Gir was psychologically married to Chef for a loooonnnng while as well before she found surrogate father, StepDaddyBigBucks. She would have the skids say "Mommy's [insert mechanical device inside or outside the Gir's house] is broken--can you fix it?" to Chef with me sitting there observing.
I do believe this list is a bit general in that an ex-spouse can continue to HATE, especially a psycho, juvenile BM but not be psychologically married to the ex in that she just wants permanent and ongoing REVENGE for the failed relationship.
Ah yes, I've also experienced
Ah yes, I've also experienced the competition for "most fun parent". On DH's end that meant that every weekend visit was full of fun activities, all of which cost money. On BM's end it meant buying age inappropriate things, like buying each kid their own copy of Grand Theft Auto 5 for their 8th birthday.
BM just used DH as an emotional outlet after the divorce. For three years, she called him daily just to talk about her life. She would still be doing that, but he finally told her that he didn't want to talk to her on the phone.
She couldn't ask him to fix anything because she wouldn't allow him in her house...probably because she's too afraid he'll take back all the things of his that she still has (including things that belonged to DH's deceased father).
I don't think BM is
I don't think BM is psychologically married to DH, I think it was easy for her to let him go.
She did however think that DH would be psychologically married to her forever. She couldn't imagine that he'd ever meet someone else and fall in love. She thought he'd spend the rest of his life wishing he'd treated her better and berating himself for ever letting her go. He'd just be sitting alone in an apartment waiting for her call him up and invite him back into her life.
This made me laugh, because I
This made me laugh, because I think the BM in my life felt the same way...that DH would just be lonely and pathetic for the rest of his life without her.
That said, she was also still psychologically married to him, because she used him as an emotional outlet well after their divorce and well after she was remarried. I think she wanted to think they were best friends, but really, she was emotionally abusive to him throughout their marriage, so why would he want to keep up a friendship with her. Honest to god, she sent him a text recently saying that for the "last two years, I've worked really hard to not say anything mean to you." Apparently, calling him a deadbeat dad when the insurance takes two full business days to process a request is not "saying something mean", but I found it laughable that she wanted credit for not being mean and also that she thought the fact that she had not - in her eyes - been mean, was justification for why DH should just act like they're best friends.
We recently had to get BM to
We recently had to get BM to sign some legal paperwork and so DH had to call her and act friendly. Other than her frantic rant last year when SD was in Europe he hasn't spoken to her in 3-4 years. He didn't want to talk to her at all but it was unavoidable.
It all worked out, she signed the paperwork but it was weird. She was overly friendly and chatty. DH just wanted the business done but she went on about her house and construction and the skids.
Like a long lost friend, his part of the convo was um, yeah, that's nice, I should let you go, um, yeah, good for you, um, oh you know, yeah, um, yeah . . . Awkward.
I understand being friendly, I'm nice to my exH when we have something to deal with but I don't chat about my daily life.
How about a 47 year old ss
How about a 47 year old ss competing for the attention for his df, who was 70 years old at the time, by trying to insert between us when dh are walking together or trying to sit between us in a movie theater. Turning his back to me to face only df, so I am not in the conversation. Calling him at night and at 7:00am when we are trying to have an overnight romantic evening in a hotel. Not to mention the countless calls during the day. Wanting to spend the weekend and some weeknights with dear old daddy.
Finally it got to the point where dear old dad and ss were going to each other Drs, dentist, eye doctor and grocery shopping together.
Now ex and ss live together and I wonder if ss wants to crawl into his daddies bed. It was that bad!
Wow! That might take the
Wow! That might take the cake. If my SS is 47 and still trying to compete with me for his dad's attention, I might want to have him committed to a mental hospital.
DH and I were either engaged
DH and I were either engaged or about to become so when BM decided to quit her job and become homeless. DH felt obligated to let her live with him "temporarily." Dumb DH -- but she was always quitting jobs and relying on DH to take care of her and the kids when they were married. So he fell into the caretaker role he hated, and which was a huge factor in their divorce. It wasn't because he still had a thing for BM -- she might have for him, I don't know.
I told him that if BM is essentially living with him that I would not set foot in the house. So it didn't happen. Pretty sure BM was there during the day while he was at work to take showers and do laundry. Even that creeps me out, but I wasn't living with DH so didn't know for sure.
And guess what. It then became MY fault that BM was homeless. Fortunately the skids grew up and figured out the truth.
I'm amazed at the number of
I'm amazed at the number of people who let their ex move back in with them, especially those who also let the ex take advantage and pay for everything for them. Unless they are disabled, adults should be expected to care for themselves.
2 & 3 relate to exH w/his
2 & 3 relate to exH w/his communication towards me. He recently blocked me on his phone and told 18yr old ds that he's done w/me and wants nothing more to do w/me. All this because he's about to propose to wife #3. We still have one more minor child to go ds15, so he'll have to deal w/me on some level for a few more years.
10) When I think back on the marital relationship I can reflect on the good times with nostalgia and gratitude, and without regret.
^^Honestly no, there were some good times but no nostalgia. if I could change history and somehow have my same kids w/out ever having to deal w/him that would have been ideal. I regret ever wasting my youth on a man who cared so little for me.
I think my DH is still
I think my DH is still psychologically married to his Ex. I don't think he loves or cares about her emotionally; I believe it is guilt. It has been almost 38 years and I still have to listen to tales concerning her, thus she is always in the back of his mind. She has remarried years ago, but she and DH both still have grown kids, grandkids, and great-grandkids that keep them connected psychologically. Nothing unusual. I never mention my Ex and I have no idea what he is even doing or where he lives. We no longer have our sons, so the children are what keeps the connection for sure.
It doesn't bother me; it actually bothers SD56 and she tries to fill her mother's shoes where Dadeeee.....is concerned. SD is extremely jealous and very rude. I don't understand the emotional connection that developed with DH and SD over the years, even before me. I never had this emotional connection with my Father. I read it a great deal here, therefore, I'm glad it's not my imagination.
I gave it up and just ignore it all; but SD56 will never let me forget "she is DH's darling, and he was married to BM first"; even after almost 38 years for us. SD56 thinks she owns her Dad and I'm just a figment of her imagination; she wishes. Lol....