I ended it (Thinking of Leaving, Need Some Encouragement)
For those who have been keeping up with my previous post (noted above), I finally got to the point where I told DW I wanted to separate. After our marriage counselor privately told me to "get out while the getting is good," I knew we couldn't continue to stay married, but it broke my heart. Quick recap: DW orbits around skids, ages 6 (boy) and 8 (girl) who live with us full-time. DW has always treated me as secondary to her kids and withholds intimacy for months at a time because she's "irritated with me as a parent." DW also quit working about 6 months ago (which we never discussed prior) and claims she can't work now because she can't find a job and she won't work for pennies. I've never been comfortable with this. She also doesn't want to put the skids in aftercare because that's not how she wants to raise them. So I've been supporting them full-time. Additionally, SD has been diagnosed with Oppositional Defiant Disorder and sadly hits every wicket on the factor list for this condition. Here's the kicker. We've been in marriage counseling at my insistence but DW does not take it seriously. The counselor told me that she's lied to her during sessions and that she really has no interest in helping herself, our marriage or SD. DW has become very serious about joining this Hindu cult and devoting herself to this guru (Nithyananda, see previous post) and would rather immerse herself in this cult than work on our marriage.
Last night, SS came home from school in a rage. He's been slamming doors and screaming at us when he gets home from school. His explanation is that his school teacher yells at him when he does something he's not supposed to (he's in 1st grade). DW is very upset and concerned about SS's feelings, which is completely valid. I suggested that we definitely talk to his teacher but before we do, we should collect as much information as possible about this. DW got very upset and told me I didn't care about SS's feelings and she's thinking about pulling both skids out of school and home schooling them (we live in one of the best school districts in the state). I reiterated that she needs to start her business (holistic health) and get her LLC because I can't continue to carry the family on my income alone and she accused me of being childish and not caring about the kids.
I finally just said I couldn't live like this anymore, that DW hasn't been affectionate towards me in months and months and she said it's because she's irritated with me so I suggested maybe it's better if she and the skids moved back to her house (that she owns in her name) in our hometown two hrs away. She said fine and then refused to talk about it because it was dinnertime. She refused to talk about it after the kids went to bed and when I tried to talk to her, she got angry and told me that I don't care about the kids and that I'm selfish and childish. I told her that I would give her $10,000 to help her get back on her feet but that I wasn't going to pay two mortgages and I couldn't afford it. So now she expects me to "stick around" and live under the same roof, continue to support her until she can earn enough money to pay the mortgage on her own (the mortgage is in my name only). I told DW I will go out of town this weekend and she got angry because she had plans for us which are obviously not happening but she still wants to go out this weekend on her own and expects me to watch the kids. When I told her no, she accused me again of not caring about them and being selfish.
I don't know what the next step is but I don't think I can continue to stay and support her. If you read my previous post, I give a pretty-detailed description of what it's been like for the past almost 3 years and I feel broken, full of doubt and so incredibly guilty right now.
My knee jerk reaction would
My knee jerk reaction would be to say "you are right. I do not care about your kids and I am selfish" Maybe that will get her out the door.
Does she plan on taking her children to India to join the cult?
Please DO NOT babysit her kids this weekend.
Take your therapist advice and get out while the getting is good!
I agree. I have found that
I agree. I have found that alot of the time arguing is pointless. Just agree with your DW.
she would LOVE to take the
she would LOVE to take the kids to India but fortunately she can't afford it. However, there is a "temple" devoted to this guru not too far from where we currently live that she wants to bring the kids into. On one hand I want to fight for them but on the other I can't save her own children from her.
Ummm...where is Biodad? You
Ummm...where is Biodad?
You can still maintain a relationship with skids if you choose to
I agree with counselor
Move her out, divorce and detach
The accusation(selfish&childish) is emotional blackmail,deflection and a red flag for manipulation.
I just talked with (not so)
I just talked with (not so) DW and told her that 1. I needed distance and it has nothing to do with the kids but that I am leaving for the weekend, and 2. that we cannot live under the same roof long-term. She threw the kids in my face and said it's really sad that I'm not acting in their best interest and being selfish. I kept my cool and said I was sorry but I have to protect myself and then we hung up. I just texted my marriage counselor and asked for a session. At least I'll be able to get away for a few days.
They are not your kids. They
They are not your kids. They are not your concern.
You don't need to do what is best for her or anyone else. Tell her she has the weekend to pack and leave and you wanted her gone back to her own place
Do not give her any money - she is hoping to no doubt swindle more money out of you and cry poor about her own situation to stay on the gravy train as long as she can
Plus the longer you support her the more she may get from you in maintainence
You said you want it over so mean it. She and kids to be gone by Monday and then the locks change. If not gone by Monday pack up her stuff put it in storage and change locks
Stop feeding into this drama and start taking care of yourself
I did and I do. Can't kick
I did and I do. Can't kick them out as DW's name is on the deed. Also, none of this is the kids' fault. They've been through enough already and they didn't ask for any of this. I want to ease the transition without allowing DW to take advantage of me and use the kids as leverage against me to get what she wants.
Not your bio kids. There is
Not your bio kids. There is zero if any leverage unless you have adopted them. Call your lawyer and file now. Protect yourself.
Problem is DW is already
Problem is DW is already taking advantage of you and it sounds like that's how it's always been. I get that you feel guilty and that tells me you're a good person but your DW is clearly not a good person. So my suggestion - give her a date, organise and pay for movers and deposit her and the skids back in their old house within the next month if you can.
Before you do any of this seek legal advice to be sure you know what you're required to do to legally separate.
I really hope you stand up to her as you deserve better!
Good luck!
I think you posted on here
I think you posted on here recently and decided to get out of this toxic relationship. You are right, your health will start to suffer, then you really would be no use to them or yourself. When you feel selfish- ask yourself what someone who truly loved you would do. This woman is using you- find someone who will appreciate your kindness and not abuse it. Good luck and keep us posted.
you are correct, Fairyo. It
you are correct, Fairyo. It was me that posted the ugly details of my toxic marriage. You are also right about my health. It has steadily declined during the course of my marriage and I know that it is emotionally based. It's going to get worse before it gets better but God help me I hope we'll all come out happier.
I don't know your back story,
I don't know your back story, but this is definitely a toxic relationship and you need to get out of it. Good grief, your marriage counselor told you to get out. That speaks VOLUMES!!
Your stbex is not working because she does NOT want to work. I see it as an excuse. Your marriage is rocky and she may have already been thinking of divorce and maintenance.
She cares more about you NOT playing Daddy to children who are not even yours than about the lack of intimacy in your failing marriage. Where is the biofather and why is he not providing for his children??
Frankly, this woman sounds a bit nutty. Nithyananda, indeed. ~eye roll~
At this point, I'd be willing to LIE: tell her you want to work on your marriage (and Daddy roll), but she and the skids need to live in HER townhouse. The minute she moves, file for divorce.
I'm sorry, OP. This sounds absolutely awful!
Oh mercy. You have gotten
Oh mercy. You have gotten yourself into a pickle with this woman and her kids. Where is the kid's father? Does he have anything to do with them? You did not marry the kids, and I bet there was nothing in your vows about doing everything "for the kids" she is using that as a convenient cop out, because she knows it works with you.
The cult thing makes me nervous for skids, especially since she is talking about home schooling them. That's the first step in the isolation and complete cult control direction.
How long have you been married? It almost sounds like you got the old bait and switch here. The person you thought you married, has shed her façade and now you are seeing the real deal and it's not a good deal. Sorry you are stuck in the crappy situation. The fact that you are taking steps to get out sounds like a very good plan, especially if your therapist encouraged this!
Hi DaizyDuke. We haven't
Hi DaizyDuke. We haven't been married that long- a little under 3 years. Indeed it was the old bait and switch, but I can't say that I'm not culpable myself. DW has very specific ideas and expectations about raising the kids which I fundamentally disagree with, as her parenting style so far has yeilded a SD with Oppositional Defiant Disorder and a SS who is now starting to show signs of rage (he is ordinarily very sweet so this is definitely out of character for him). I'm sure I played a part in all of this.
Bio Dad lives across the country. He is involved to the extent that he can be, but not really. He tries, but I have a feeling, if my experience is anything and history is a guide, that DW did the same things to him before they ended their relationship. The cult didn't exist at that time, that I know of. My original blog is in this forum and goes into detail about the situation over the last three years(thinking of leaving, need some encouragement).
I thought about whether to talk to Bio Dad. We have a decent relationship and get along fine, but I just don't know if it's worth it because I don't know how seriously he'll take it. I also don't want to get in the middle of a potential custody battle between DW and BD while I'm in the middle of separating and I don't know that it's my place to do so. From what I understand, BD isn't quite there as well and I'm not so sure the kids would be better off with him. DW loves them tremendously, even if she is completely gullible and orbits around them, I'll give her that.
Thank you for your words of encouragement. I know it is the right thing to do, but man is it ever heartbreaking. I've never been one to walk away feeling good after a breakup, especially when I waited so long to get married (mid-40s here) because I take this vow very seriously. My heart is heavy.
Hi, I am pretty new here, but
Hi, I am pretty new here, but I am going to be blunt. There comes a point where talk is well...just talk....so stop navel gazing, take action and get a hold of your life - you deserve better.
MAKE YOUR BAGS AS HEAVY AS YOUR HEART. FILL THEM AND GET OUT!
Some encouragement &
Some encouragement & experience dealing with mental health issues in partner & SK's:
You do definitely need to draw a line, and it can be soft and gentle at first, but you need to stick with the decision to end it and for her to move back into her own house. Get the paperwork going and firmly state that she needs to move out and you are not responsible for her financial well-being or her house payments, especially if its in her name only. If your house is in your name only, you are in the right legally to ask her to leave.
Firstly, if the SD has a mental disorder such as ODD, that can be related to ADD (and ADD is hereditary, there are 3 genes that pass it on when it is a genetic disorder and not brought on from brain damage - yes, brain damage can lead to ADD-like symptoms and behavioral problems) then perhaps the reason why DW completely overreacts when you bring up something rational like collecting as much information as possible from the SS about why SS is acting the way the he is, is that she herself also has an ADD. It's not normal to think that collecting information about the SS's behavior before making a scene with the teacher is unreasonable like she has - such as how long his behavior been going on, and any other patterns in his behavior - means you are selfish or not thinking about the kids at all. In fact, because you are willing to look at his behavior in an objective manner, you might be the only one to see a pattern when the DW is incapable of due to her own mental state and problems with the relationship right now. This is exactly what happened in my 4 year relationship that I just ended with 'M' and the SD's (ages 11 & 7 now, they both have a different type of ADD from both of their bioparents having an ADD. ADD people will a lot of the time do a bait and switch - they are great to date, fun, spontaneous, but terrible partners/roommates once you live with them cuz of the ADD) There are several different types of ADD that affect different parts of the brain. Since you say he has been having extreme anger problems, there is a specific type of ADD that manifests as rage and anger. Check out this website, by Dr. Daniel Amen and do the test for SS, and DW. If SS hasn't had any recent in the last year, head injuries or accidents, wasn't a forceps birth (which damages the temporal lobe, which affects mood & behavior), he hasn't smacked or hurt his head, concussions, etc, then it might be genetic ADD from the DW:
http://addtypetest.com/
Dr. Amen, the author of the webiste, has a book about the types of ADD and I read both editions and it might help, or it might show that it's not ADD. But if anything, the easy online question test might put your mind at ease.
Best wishes, good luck. I'm glad to know now about ODD, it sounds like a lot of what my ex's youngest (7 1/2) might have on top of an ADD type. If you're not ADD its really hard to get along with an ADD partner and children, about 40% of marriages with an ADD partner end in divorce, and if the kids have ADD also, the rate of divorce is even higher. It's very sad to break off a serious relationship, but it sounds very dysfunctional and staying in it for guilt will do no one any favors. It's been 4 months since I ended mine and it's still a struggle, but if there is a clash over parenting types and she doesn't respect your wishes or opinions while you are the sole provider, then it never will work. Behavioral or mood disorders (and her getting sucked into a cult is a really big flag that her mental state is not all there or rational) are not your fault and don't feel guilty over your decision, you can lead a horse to water but you can't make it drink.
thank you for the info! Our
thank you for the info! Our marriage counselor said she is a manipulative narcissist. Still not easy to swallow because this is someone I still love and care for, but I can't deny that the factors are there.
This whole cult thing sounds
This whole cult thing sounds like an elaborate ploy to avoid becoming an adult. She is manipulating you.
http://shrink4men.com/2009/01/16/the-real-reason-your-wife-doesnt-want-t...
http://shrink4men.com/2011/06/17/dr-tara-j-palmatier-on-avoiceformen-rad...
http://shrink4men.com/2017/08/03/how-do-you-know-when-a-narcissist-is-ly...
http://shrink4men.com/2016/04/19/taking-back-your-life-from-a-narcissist...
PLEASE, do not have sex with her.
Dear Lost17, You deserve to
Dear Lost17,
You deserve to be loved by someone who loves you with their whole heart and seeks to provide shelter for yours, plain and simple.
It will happen, just not in the situation you are describing here.
Maybe it would be best to switch to individual counseling at this point, to help you deal with these feelings of obligation (which I suspect are simply because you are a caring person) to children not your own. You can't fix any of that. You can fix yourself.
thank you carolbrady71. I
thank you carolbrady71. I think I'm just going to get a puppy instead of even beginning to think about dating for a long, long time.
I usually read everything,
I usually read everything, but I don't have a lot of time this evening. I just want to say that if your gut tells you something is wrong and your heart is suffering, it's time to take a good look at your situation and question why you are tolerating all sort of stuff and situations that make you miserable. My story in a nutshell -- got remarried for the second time and found that all he did was orbit around his kids. And he didn't contribute anything financially or otherwise to me. I kicked him out almost a year ago, officially divorced him in May and am free of all the bullshit and pain that I tortured myself with for years. What could I be possibly doing that was wrong, etc... my now ex played into my good heart and used the hell out of me. I feel so so much better without all the guilt trip and baggage and extra mouths to feed, literally. I feel like I shed a parasite and his offspring and I know I did.
My advice: Listen to your gut. If it feels wrong and if your counselor is telling you to run too -- maybe don't spend too much time spinning your wheels! Good luck!
update: thank you for all of
update: thank you for all of your thoughts and advice. What is done is done. I did NOT babysit for DW and enable her to go to a concert that I was supposed to go to originally and spend my money on said concert. She screamed at me and told me I was childish, selfish and inconsiderate and I told her that I had to protect myself, but I stood my ground and it felt good.
I had a great long weekend with child-free friends out of town, told my family what was happening and was pleasantly surprised by the amount of understanding and support everyone gave me. No one saw me as a failure at parenting or being a partner and that was very reassuring. I came home last night and was just angry. DW was here and I told her that she betrayed our marriage, she joined a cult, she takes the easy way out all the time and that I'm done being a babysitter and that her open wallet is now closed. I told her that her guru's claims of being able to give devotees the ability to levitate coconuts, manifest jewels in their hands and telekinesis is plain crazy and no rational person would or could ever believe this stuff. Welp, it didn't go well. DW started crying, but not out of sadness. Out of rage, that I had insulter her guru and "shit" (sorry for the language) all over her beliefs and tore her down.
I told her I would pay her credit card balance as of today and I wanted to see it in writing and that I wouldn't pay for anything after today. I told her additionally that I would give her $10,000 to help her wit the kids if she would leave me alone and not try to fight me on anything else in court. I told her she was entitled to nothing and that I was doing her a favor.
Honestly I vascillate between anger and extreme hurt. I know it's the right thing to do but it really sucks to rip apart my family like this. We haven't told the kids yet but we will make sure they know it's not because of them and that I will leave a line of communication open if they ever want to talk to me. The next couple of months are going to be hell, for sure.
Good for you..just expect the
Good for you..just expect the unexpected and KNOW a year from now things will be WAY better all around.
Happy for you!
Thank you everyone, we are
Thank you everyone, we are filing for uncontested divorce. Two days ago I came home and DW told me that she knows we are not splitting up because of her guru or her parenting style (or lack thereof). She told me that this is really about money and that is why we are splitting up. She also told me that deep in my heart I know her guru is the real thing...WHAT?
Yesterday I told DW that it is not about money, and that it is absolutely about her cult and her parenting style and everything in between that is just one giant pattern of not dealing with your own demons and taking the easy way out. I told her that SD has a real diagnosis and it's a real problem and if she doesn't get help both for DW herself and for SD then no good will come of it. It's very sad that DW cannot see things for what they are and that she can't be reasoned with. She said that her guru is her therapy and that I have a counselor so there is no difference. Well, I don't worship my counselor and I'm certainly not paying $10,000 to be able to levitate coconuts. DW said that if I "truly" loved her none of this would matter since she's not hurting anyone (what???!). Then she said that plenty of people stay together for the kids and I said well not me and it has nothing to do with my love for them. If she truly believed in staying together for the kids then why didn't she stay with BD? He wasn't good enough for her either and she kicked him to the curb, which was the trigger for SD's emotional problems.
I'm past the point of no return and it's crazy scary and sad but I know in my heart it's the right thing to do.
Oh and DW decided to tell the kids about the divorce without me and said they didn't care so I'm not sure why she would want to stay together for them if she thinks they give zero effs about me. I know it's not true and that the kids are babies and can't really process or understand the consequences of a divorce. DW is saying that I don't love them and don't care about them. But since we are splitting up, I'm trying to distance myself and protect myself and right now, to a degree, I don't want to be around them, really. I don't want the responsibility that was never mine to begin with since I'm not a "real parent" according to DW, and I've been comfortable in my solitude, for now. We are still living under the same roof but separate bedrooms and honestly I've been so busy with work I just come home and basically pass out. I leave in the morning before anyone wakes up, which is nice.
This weekend the kids are going to their grandparents which means that DW are in the house alone. I'm going to try and make myself as scarce as possible.
SD tried to give me lip yesterday and do gymnastics in my house (which is banned for obvious reasons) and I just glared at her with a death stare and sternly told her "DO NOT DO THAT IN MY HOUSE AND DON'T YOU EVER TALK TO ME LIKE THAT AGAIN." I'm not gonna lie- it felt glorious. DW would ordinarily glare at me for talking to her baby like that and putting her in her place but I was the one who gave zero effs and now I refuse to tolerate any more crap from that child.
SD also screamed at DW and wouldn't listen to her yesterday, which is a common theme in our household. She has made our lives miserable and I just sat in my bedroom with my door closed and thought "not my problem anymore." Again, I cannot lie - it felt pretty good to know that I won't have to be in a toxic environment anymore.
hello everyone: update--so
hello everyone: update--so our house is up for sale and I'm looking to move into the downtown area of the city we live in. I had my first episode of self-doubt over the last couple of days and it's been rather rough. Sad thing is, I do love this woman and I love the kids too. I begged and pleaded with her to get help and get help for SD who has ODD. However, yesterday DW said that she is staying on her "spiritual path" and no one is going to screw that up for her. She said that her children will ALWAYS come first no matter what and that SD is just fine. I have to wonder if SD really wanted us to split up because she's been acting out a little less over the last few days, but I think the storm may still be ahead for her.
So allrighty then. DW refuses to see that she has a problem and that SD has a problem as well. DW cannot comprehend that I've been distancing myself from the kids to protect my own emotions, which makes sense because she orbits around them so I'm the bad partner and step parent because I'm not hanging out with them 24/7.
At least this will all be over in a couple of months. I know this is a blessing in disguise, but divorce still seems like such a dirty word...