Privacy/Boundaries and stepchildren who want control
Hi,
I'm new here. Obviously I am at my wits end as I am writing in a forum to people I have never met, but I truly need some advice as I'm about ready to walk out the door of my marriage.
I am a bio mom of three girls- 27,25 and 22. My husband has two children from his first marriage, a teen girl- 13 and a preteen boy12.
Recently, my SD lied to me. She lied so horribly that it left me no choice but to ask her mother to come and get her (husband was out of town) and the argument got so heated that there really was no other choice. fast forward to three days later, I was on the phone in my office, and I also had my neighbor over who was helping with some things- I was on the phone with a family member and my family member asked how things were going- in turn, I began to share my frustration with SD.. my neighbor then overheard and came into the office and said, "oh wow.. I thought I was the only one with these issues, sorry, didn't mean to eavesdrop." So as my neighbor and I are talking SD's bio mom drops her off at the house (I had no idea she was coming over, there was no phone call etc) SD overhears the conversation. Of course, she is upset, I spoke negatively about her, but not in a horrible way- it was actually anything a parent would say- how disappointed one is that their child resorts to lying. etc. My SD snuck back out of the house (apparently she needed something from her room and had her mom drop her by and had her mom wait for her) and then proceeds to send my husband a nasty text message of how horrible I am for talking poorly about her. Then I receive a message from her stating, "thanks for going behind my back and telling bad stories about me to the neighbor."
My husband and I spoke at great lengths about this. TO provide some history- SD is a a child who has never been taught how to work for anything- she believes she is entitled to everything she has- so much so that she has lost cell phones, ipads etc, without blinking an eye. (by the way SS is not an issue at all) SD and I have had rounds and rounds of conflict, I raised my girls to have respect, to not repeat adult conversations if they are within earshot, the proof of my parenting is with those 3 girls- all graduated from college, successful and hold very good jobs and known to be very kind and generous women. My SD will go out of her way to find out what my husband and I are talking about, she will interupt conversations that we are having (in the car) and express her opinion on things she has no business to say. I no longer have conversations with my husband with her around I wait until they are gone or out of earshot. I explained to my husband that #1- she came over without letting me know, she snuck in, and snuck out. She didn't announce herself. I have a big issue with that. #2- nothing I said was in poor taste or horrible or untrue. I made comments about how disappointing it was that she feels that lying is ok. I mande a comment about how I've tried to resolve the issues but there has been no success. My husband, feeling torn, has asked me to apologize which I will not do. My life is not run or dictated by children. I do not care what my SD heard, in my eyes, yes, it was probably very upsetting to her, but in the same right, she knows that everything I said was true. I have explained to my husband that if he doesn't address her behavior now, we will be in for more issues in a few years. My SD has no respect for my husband, she has called him a racist (because he made a comment about gang members mostly being of different ethnic backgrounds) she will not follow through with anything he asks her do. And to complicate it more, when she is in trouble by her dad, she will come to me to ask me if she can go and do something (full well knowing that she is in trouble) knowing I will likely say yes (not always), so she plays us against eachother. Husband says I don't understand their situation (hello- I raised 3 girls and they came from a split home and they didn't act like this towards him or towards their SM- if they ever had, they would find themselves in a world of hurt)
Husband and I have been together 9 years. Ex wife divorced my husband, and she bad mouths him (no proof but validated from the words and phrases I hear from the SD and from her brother whom; surprisingly confides in me). SD has pushed me away from day 1, but whenever my girls were present she would act like she loved me more than life itself, demanding to sit next to me, holding my hand, hugging me, etc... but when my girls left, it was back to SD hell child.
I am now faced with an ultimatum, husband wants me to apologize and together we will lay down the expectations (never did this when I suggested it years ago). Call me stubborn, but I am cut from a cloth where parents don't apologize unless it is a deliberate act of some sort- my mother said plenty of negative things about me as have several other parents in simliar situations. I have told my husband I have no problem walking away and that I have better things to do with my life than spend it upset, hurt, frustrated and left feeling like a stranger in my own home. To give all of you a better understanding- I have done more for SD than I ever could for my own. I treat all children like my own, but SD has reaped all the benefits of me advancing in my career- her dad also and the two of us being able to provide things to her that I never was able to provide my girls. I never get thanked, I get talked around, ignored and now lied to. I'm closer to 50 than 40 and I've been a parent of some sort since I was 19. (my ex husband had two older girls from his previous marriage when we married when I was 19) So I am not immune to the step parent world- the only difference then was that his daughters would have never treated me this way because he wouldn't allow it. My husband now laughs when she is caught eavesdropping, laughs when she doesn't listen.
I'm truly fed up. Can anyone shed any light on this?
If you've gotten this far, thank you for reading my novel.
I would not apologize. You
I would not apologize. You did nothing wrong. She came over unannounced, didn't let you know she was there when she arrived (I think I read that she dropped by to get something and leave which in my mind requires that she at least say hello and let you know why she is there). That right there is enough for me to conclude that you owe her no apology. You were in your office (sounds like your office is in your house if I read correctly), having a private "adult" conversation. You were stating facts, not making up malicious lies about your SD with the intent to hurt her or cause problems with the neighbors. I think it's really important to remember and perhaps discuss with your DH and your SD that you were discussing "facts" (with a huge emphasis on the word Facts) and if SD hadn't lied or engaged in the bad behavior in the first place, that you wouldn't haven't been discussing said "factual" behavior (I hope that made sense).
This is a really good opportunity for your DH to teach his daughter how to take responsibility for her behavior. In my mind, taking responsibility includes being able to stand up and admit the wrong doing, apologize, make amends and then demonstrate how one will take certain steps to make amends. I know you said she lied to you but it sounds like she was also very disrespectful if you felt like you had to call her mother so she could remove her from your home. I see that as a very big deal.
You didn't mention any consequences that she suffered as a result of her lying and mistreating you. Did she have any consequences? How about consequences for the nasty, whining, cry-baby text message that she sent out to her father or her sarcastic text to you? She shouldn't get away with that. She caused quite a bit of trouble when she was the source of the problem in the first place.
This would also be a good opportunity for her to learn how to approach you in a mature manner so that you both can talk about what happened. That's how people work things out. Nothing gets resolved when your SD goes on the attack when she hears something she doesn't like. She will never learn how to work through issues. Instead she will learn how to be a big baby so she can get her way.
You owe her no apology. If you apologize then SD will know that all she has to do is throw a fit and the adults will bend to her every whim. It gives her complete control of you and your DH. Please do not apologize; she owes you and your DH an apology.
What a brat!
Hello, lovely lady! Nice to
Hello, lovely lady! Nice to see you!
Hi!! Thanks for saying hi
Hi!! Thanks for saying hi
Nice to see you too.
Thank you Amber. No
Thank you Amber. No consequences. When I brought up the racist issue with my DH he said, "well, I think its that generation..." (insert eye roll here). These are my husband's only children. Rewind a few years, when my girls were all under our roof, he witnessed first hand what I expected from my girls- 1. Respect. 2. Integrity 3. Accountability. There were many many times that I had to remind my girls WHO the parent was. He would often tell me how hard I was on them, but they never treated him with disrespect, the one time my youngest mouthed off to him, she apologized and was grounded through the weekend- and, she owned up to it. I can't say this for SD. SD has major control issues- so much so that she will inform her bio mom what is ok and what is not ok- I've witnessed this first hand (ie: she informed her mom that
trust me, it is ok that we just drop by such and such's house, they won't care. I know that." ) and, bio mom allows it. So that is how this whole dropping off and sneaking in and sneaking out came to be. She has to know every single thing that goes on, if she is asked to do something she will push back "why? Why do I have to?" or when caught in a lie (like she was with me) she will say, "I don't remember saying that." The horrible lying that she did was somethign that my SS owned up to . They were with the neighbor kids playing a game at the table and my SD got angry with SS and said "(name) you are such a f-ing @sshole" in turn SS replies, " well.. you are a b*itch" They thought was gone- but I wasn't I was in the front of the house and overheard it all. When I confronted SS, as soon as I said, "I need to talk to you..." and he immediately said, "i know, I know, I shouldn't have called her that, but she is so mean sometimes." When I asked him how he knew what I was going to talk to him about he said, "well, I figured you overheard it or one of the neighbor kids told you." When confronting the SD she says, "I don't remember saying that AT ALL..." followed by me, "Funny, cause your brother owned up to his part." this is when she threw a tantrum and began screaming and yelling at me, calling me names and throwing things at me- which in turn led to me calling her mother and informing her mother that she needed to come and pick her up. When I spoke to DH about this, he was like 'Well kids are going to be kids" Yes, they are, I'm not upset about the swearing (although not ideal), I'm more upset that she replies with, "i don't remember" which is what she says all the time when she wants to get out of something. This child has been given control since she was small. She is 13 and throws fits like a 2 year old sometimes. Once she got so angry with me she told me to stop the car and let her out, so I did. She had to walk the rest of the way through the subdivision to the house (we had just pulled into the subdivision) when DH asked me why I did that my response was, "she told me to stop and let her out, so I did." When she got angry a month ago and said she wasn't going to such and such's party since she was confronted about another lie she told, I didn't take her. She wanted to know why and I told her she said she didn't want to go. I have turned the car around and taken her home when she has spoken out of turn with me. All of this is met with my DH and I getting into arguments. I love my husband, I love his kids, even this hell child of his, but his lack of parenting is causing more and more grief. They are returning this evening from a two week visit with their mom (they spend two weeks with us, two weeks with her- we live in the same town)- he's sitting them down, and I just have been sick thinking about it. I have practiced the disengaging conversation over and over, I don't want to go there, but I honestly feel like there is no choice. And, my three girls? They all came out to visit (i'm going to be a grandma- my middle one and her husband are expecting!) and saw first hand how awful SD is, and all three confronted her at different times.. then reported back to me, "Mom.. you guys HAVE got to do something about her." In my mind, the seed has been watered- it can not be unplanted.
OMG exact same thing happens
OMG exact same thing happens with my SS and SD. She is such a mean bully. After a huge expletive-filled rant against me, she lied to her mom and siad I started it. She lies 100% of the time.
I would not apologize, but I
I would not apologize, but I would block her number from my phone.
I will NEVER apologize to
I will NEVER apologize to lying aholes. If my DH ever demanded such a ridiculous thing I would tell him to GTFO.
I have a home (actually three homes) that I own outright. I will never apologize for any aholes that want to disrespect me or my homes. I do not give a sh*t about who wants to use my homes and abuse me.
My SS32 and his spoiled brat GF (aka babymama) had a hissy fit that I would not let them use my vacation home. Babymamma said that DH could not see the grandchild unless I allowed them to use my assets. So NOT my problem.
An apology is not required. A
An apology is not required. A thirteen y.o. eavesdropped and heard some unpleasant truths about herself. Let's not even get into her coming and going as she pleases or being there when her parent isn't...
Tell your H that a sit down with SD is a good idea, but that you wont be apologizing because you don't reward bad behavior or drama. Amber Miller covered it all very well. Stand your ground.
Agree completely.
Agree completely.
I was hoping I gave decent
I was hoping I gave decent advice. I'm glad you agree.
Do not apologize for anything
Do not apologize for anything short of picking her up by her ankles and giving her a swirly in the toilet. Just kidding on the swirly thing. Not for the don't apologize thing.
Your DH needs a come to Jesus session to gain some clarity and HE needs to step up and parent and discipline before you have to. If he fails then he and she suffer the consequences of her actions through the discipline and consequences that you apply.
Lather, rinse, repeat.
If he fails to extricate his head from his sphincter .... then by all means find a partner worthy of you. However, don't walk away. Rekey the locks, put their crap on the curb and get your attorney moving to make it as lucrative for you as possible.
Good luck and take care of you.
"I am not immune to the step
"I am not immune to the step parent world- the only difference then was that his daughters would have never treated me this way because he wouldn't allow it."
Stand your ground and don't apologize. And give HIM the cold shoulder for laughing at the situation. There are men out there who wouldn't allow their children to treat their wives poorly. You picked a lemon...now you have to teach him (and his brat) how to treat you.
You can apologize without
You can apologize without apologizing. You can apologize for her feelings without apologizing for the things you said. It acknowledges her hurt, which is really what she wants... she doesn't care whether you're sorry for what you said, she wants to hold you accountable for her negative feelings.
"When you snuck in the other day, you overheard a conversation where I said I was disappointed you were lying to your father and me. I'm sure it must have been upsetting for you to hear that, and I'm sorry that your feelings were hurt. Your father and I have been talking about how to resolve your issues with lying to us, and have decided that we will all talk about it now, since the subject was brought up. DH?"
And hand it over to your DH to lay down the expectations about the lies, the consequences, etc.
It's basic customer service... empathize with the bad feelings without claiming responsibility for having caused them
Update on this
Update on this madness:
Family meeting did.not.go.well. I did not apologize. SD demanded that I do. This is what led me to turn into "scary mommy" and basically put her in her place. I used most of this advice here (thank you very much to all of you) on how to speak to this episode. Taking responsiblity for her actions, owning up to them and figuring it out. Wasn't going to be her mother, didn't want to be, but that disrespect was not going to be tolerated. SD at one point looked at DH and said, "are you going to just let her not apologize to me???" DH then sheepishly looked at me across the table. This is when I informed all of them that there were going to be some changes taking place- and that although they probably deserved to know what those changes would be, I have made the decision to make them on my own without disclosure. I did inform SD that she will no longer have the opportunity to lie or be disrespectful to me. I did inform her that as long as my name was on the deed and mortgage to the house I had a say on what happens in my home and if she didn't like that she was welcome to go live with her mother full time until all of this could be sorted out. (this drove her crazy because she has to be in the know and in control of everything- so the arguments and debates erupted) Meanwhile across the table DH just didn't participate in the conversation until SD stood up and threw a massive tantrum, screamed at DH and called him a f-ing coward. Yes folks, this is what happens when you don't parent a child. And, DH just told me when I asked him if he was going to allow this, that "she will calm down." It is Friday. I called a friend, I'm leaving for the weekend. Good riddance and good luck. I have allowed a child to win as I really don't see how this will ever be resolved. I keep asking God that if he gives us no more than we can handle why I feel like I'm about ready to fall off the face of the earth.
Bravo! Well played. Now...
Bravo!
Well played. Now... next time rather than leaving your home tell DH that he either steps up and parents or he and his spawn will leave for the weekend. IMHO of course.
Lather, rinse, repeat.
Great job and keep up the good work.
Take care of you!
Oh my goodness, must be
Oh my goodness, must be something in the air because a similar thing happened with my SD 14 this week. I have struggled with random, unannounced or last minute almost daily drop ins, I guess it could be called sneaking in but my SD is not quiet about it, nor does she say hello. On Monday, my DH decided to bring it up to her when he took her to dinner (I was not there). He requested she check before coming when she is with her mom, and she lost it and cursed at him. He took her phone and said she was grounded from it, and so began the tears and list of everything that is wrong at our house. She said she doesn't want to live with us anymore, and has not stayed here since even though it has been her dad's time. She has this type of tantrum each of the few times my DH pushes back on what she wants, and it is due to both of her parents allowing her to put herself on the same level of authority as them. It has caused a lot of resentment on my part, which evidently she has picked up on and that is part of her problem with being here. I do love her and am willing to work to improve our relationship, but it is hard to find the motivation to do that with a child that treats her parents with such disrespect and manipulation. But she has been taught it is ok. It is a difficult situation for sure, and we as stepparents are in a very difficult role. I hope things settle down for you and that the switch gets flipped for your DH so that he can understand that her behavior is not good for anyone, including herself.
I had this issue with SS when
I had this issue with SS when he WASN'T YET 7!!
He had Chef wrapped around his little finger as a mini me. The kid literally took a dump on my furniture and smeared it all over the house on purpose. In Chef's eyes, SS could do no wrong. Now Chef is not a passive man. He is an ALPHA man 100%. When YSS willfully disobeyed me, Chef would turn on ME for correcting him.
YSS would willfully try to stop his dad from conversing with me. Stupid interruptions such as "I saw a squirrel once." (I am not making this up). Forcing himself to vomit for attention whenever Chef and I were talking.
The most vivid outside of the shitting event was YSS was shaking a can of diet coke above our heads while we were just trying to relax on the sofa. He was not allowed to have diet soda. He was starting to spray the can of soda while Chef was saying over and over to no avail "Put it awaaaay honneeeeeey."
I got up, took the can away and started to get him an alternate beverage. YSS started the waterworks. Chef became enraged AT ME! Demanded I APOLOGIZE to YSS and practically broke my arm pulling me aside for DARING to take the impending exploding can of soda away. Meanwhile I caught a glimpse of YSS smirking at me. I REFUSED to apologize to ANY misbehaving child as the experienced parent that I am.
Took about another year to realize that YSS was a POS due to zero parenting on his and the Girhippo's part.
My step daughter told me to
My step daughter told me to go f*** myself and told me that I was a piece of sh** after getting off a plane from a vacation where we flew her first class to Europe...all because she wasn't getting a car.... and her mom wasn't allowing it and my husband agreed. No apology, no nothing for almost three weeks.. Your update / response to her during a family meeting is dead-on. However, I have had such meetings for the past 8 years, and now I am NEVER talking to her again ! She comes back here next week, and my DH agreed that the only thing I need to do for her is make enough food for her when I cook family dinner. I am DONE with her spoiled, nasty attitudes and tantrums (she is 16) trying to control our life. Hope she has fun trying to find rides everywhere because this SM is 100% disengaged! She will either grow up to be a manipulative whackjob like BM or she will realize there are consequences to her actions. Either way....no change , apology etc = no relationship