Wife (31F) wants me (35M) to move across the country from my daughter (12F)
Hello all,
Usually, I don't usually post to forums. However, despite being pretty good at using Google to look for things, I am struggling to find answers or perspective on my current dilemma.
I have a daughter from a previous relationship who is a sweet, sensitive, highly intelligent girl. Though, she does have some of the normal teenager issues along with a few not-so-normal issues (more on that later). Her mom and I share custody of her and get along just fine - no issues there.
After my daughter's mom and I had split up, I met a woman who I had married. She had moved to Florida to be with me. Ultimately, she could not bear living away from her family. Given my daughter's age, I simply could not move back with her to be with her family. This condition resulted in marriage ending. It was a pretty easy divorce - no kids, she had a good job, and I was left with the house and a small amount of debt.
My current wife is also from out-of-state. However, she had moved to Florida before we met. We dated, and had a great time. Determined to prevent a repeat of what had happened in my first marriage, I had told my wife what had happened with my first wife regarding my daughter and my first wife's desire to move back to her home country. At the time, she totally empathized with my position that I could not leave my daughter. We got along great and the feelings continued to grow. She also seemed to get along very well with my daughter; they both seemed to really like one another. So, things continued to take their course, resulting in us deciding to get married a couple of years ago.
Since then, things have been turbulent to say the least. I won't go into the other issues. As far as I am concerned, the other issues are of the kind that are workable; there's just a LOT of them! However, the issue that I am the most concerned about is that she has wanted to move back to her home state since about a year ago. She argues that she does not have friends, family, or anything here in Florida for her.
As for my daughter, I had thought that things were going very well as far as her relationship with myself and my wife. However, since a little over a year ago, she has started to distance herself from my wife and, to a certain extent, me. According to her mom, she had issues with anxiety and sadness. At first, she kind of chalked it up to the advanced classes that my daughter was in. Then, one day, my daughter's mom called me with the phrase that I hadn't heard in over ten years: "We need to talk". Her mom told me that my daughter had told her that she didn't want to come to my house anymore. I sat down with my daughter and her mom to talk this through. It turns out that my daughter started to not feel good since shortly after my wedding. She talked about areas where my wife had apparently crossed some boundaries. She had talked about wanting to spend more time with me alone. Of course, all of these are reasonable asks. The problem that my daughter's mom and I wanted to get to the bottom of is why she couldn't express this sooner.
Meanwhile, my wife's desire to move back to her home state have escalated from a "I wish we could...", to "We need to...", to demands. The past couple of weeks, she has been back home to visit family (she is able to go visit them several times per year). Each day she would call me to tell me that she wanted to move back to her home state - like, NOW. I tried to tell her that we needed to wait until we were in a financial position to absorb the pay cut and that we needed to wait until my daughter was older. I told her that we could try to have it so she is making more frequent trips home to be with her friends and family. I reminded her that my living situation was something that I had made very clear on several occasions before and after we got married. Finally, she issued an ultimatum: I needed to choose to stay in Florida or move with her. The choice that I made would determine if we were to remain married or not. I told her that all she had to do was to wait a few more years and then we could move. She wasn't having any of that: She told me that when she came home, she was going to pack her things and drive back to her home state.
After my wife issued this ultimatum, she called me a few days later in full meltdown mode. On one hand, she stated that she didn't want our marriage to end. On the other hand, she was doubling down on moving to her home state. She stated that I wasn't as important to my daughter as I thought and that my daughter would be just fine without seeing me. She told me that I was wrong to put my daughter as a higher priority than her. She told me that I was not respecting my wedding vows. Then, she suggested that I could still see my daughter for a time that's equal to what I have now - I would just have to see her over the summer and winter breaks. She then suggested that, if I had to see my daughter on the current schedule (the one that has existed since before her 1st birthday), I could pick up a job as a consultant where I travel 100% and am home on the weekends. We could maintain our house in Florida as well as her home state, and I can alternate the places that I fly home to on the weekends.
Don't get me wrong - I don't have a problem with the idea of a move, I never have. What I have a problem with is the timing, for a couple of reasons:
- The job that I have pays me very, very well. However, since getting married, we have certainly taken advantage of the lifestyle that this salary affords. In her home state, the cost of living is cheaper and there are jobs to be had. They just don't pay what we are making here. In fact, the pay cut that I would be looking at would be on a scale of significance that there would be pain even if she went back to work full time.
- My daughter is 13 years old. She is doing GREAT in school. Despite being an "every other weekend Dad", she and I have had a close relationship. However, as was made abundantly clear to me, there are issues. While she is working through these issues with the aid of a therapist, her mom, and me, I am crystal clear that my daughter needs MORE of me, not less.
- My daughter has friends who she likes to be with during the summer as well as her parents. My wife is assuming that my daughter's mom would be OK with me having my daughter out-of-state for her entire summer break. I don't see where my daughter's wishes or desires are being considered here, either. I simply don't think that having her for an entire summer break is realistic. The last thing that I want is to have my daughter feel like she is being sent to Siberia for the entire summer and ultimately resent me for keeping her from her friends. Working as a 100% traveling consultant could technically work. However, I would not be home during the week and thus would then see my wife AND daughter on alternating weekends. From my perspective, that is even worse.
The past few days have certainly been a rollercoaster. On one hand, I feel awful for my wife's pain and wish there was something that I could do to help her. On the other hand, having grown up as a kid who watched his bio-dad walk out of the house to never see him again, I do not want for my daughter to even think that I am leaving her. I just know that, if I were to leave the state to live in my wife's home state, my daughter is very likely going to feel that I chose my wife over her. On top of everything, the ultimatum has me against the wall and presented with two choices: move or else. In either choice, someone is going to get hurt. In my mind, if I have to choose between hurting my child or hurting adults (including myself), I feel as though I have no choice but to select the choice that keeps my child from getting hurt.
So, I need some perspective. Am I being pig-headed here? Is there another option? My wife will be returning this week. I'd like to get some perspective before she and I speak again. Whatever I do, I want for it to be good for her, good for me, and good for my daughter - even if it is only for the long run.
Thanks!
You're right - if there was
You're right - if there was tension, I certainly did not see it. I wasn't even aware there was an issue until recently. However, regardless of my daughter's issues and my desire to resolve them, I had made it clear to my daughter and her mom that my wife was going nowhere.
Aside from not wanting to
Aside from not wanting to clean her room, it was these:
"As for my daughter, I had thought that things were going very well as far as her relationship with myself and my wife. However, since a little over a year ago, she has started to distance herself from my wife and, to a certain extent, me. According to her mom, she had issues with anxiety and sadness. At first, she kind of chalked it up to the advanced classes that my daughter was in. Then, one day, my daughter's mom called me with the phrase that I hadn't heard in over ten years: "We need to talk". Her mom told me that my daughter had told her that she didn't want to come to my house anymore. I sat down with my daughter and her mom to talk this through. It turns out that my daughter started to not feel good since shortly after my wedding. She talked about areas where my wife had apparently crossed some boundaries. She had talked about wanting to spend more time with me alone. Of course, all of these are reasonable asks. The problem that my daughter's mom and I wanted to get to the bottom of is why she couldn't express this sooner."
I am sure that my wife is trying to help. There are areas where she helping my daughter is a godsend (e.g.: giving advice on grooming and hygiene, school work, etc). There are areas where my wife and my daughter's mom have wide differences as to what kinds of things are appropriate for a girl of my daughter's age, such as internet access and cell phone use. There are still some nuances to the co-parenting relationship that are difficult - I'll be the first to agree with her on that one. Furthermore, I agree with my wife on many of these differences, but I have also come to terms with the fact that there are two households with similar, but not identical, rules. There are things that my daughter's mom has permitted her to do that I am not going to be able to do much about, like she having a cell phone. Now, push comes to shove, if there is a big issue and I sit my daughter's mom down and explain the problem and why such thing is a problem (e.g.: my daughter using inappropriate language on the internet for the world to see), my daughter's mom helps to resolve the issue. However, these days, many kids my daughter's age are on the internet and using cell phones. With that said, the mere fact that my daughter has access to the internet and owns a cell phone is not a hill that I am going to die on.
However, there are also interactions between my wife and my daughter that have caused serious friction. These include she criticizing my daughter's mom, enumerating for my daughter all of the things that I pay for in her mom's household, how she think that my daughter treats me like an ATM (far from it), etc. When I asked my wife about this, she confirmed that she had said those things to her. I made it clear to her that saying those things simply isn't appropriate. If I don't say such things to my daughter, neither should she.
There are times that my daughter's mom has a lean month or runs across hard times and I help her out in addition to my court-ordered responsibilities. It doesn't happen often. When it does, the need is usually critical (e.g.: mortgage or car payment) and she has exhausted all other options. Regardless of the reason, my teenage daughter doesn't need to know about such matters. In fact, she should not know anything about the money that goes between her mother and I at all.
In my state, the custodial
In my state, the custodial parent simply having a roof over the child's head and running water (even a garden hose counts as that) is good enough for the state. Oh, and if that roof happens to be that of a man who turns out to be a registered sex offender, all is forgiven when Mom checks into a battered women's shelter and has Dad pick their daughter up from day care before going dark for a week. I know this from personal experience, early in my daughter's life and really do not want to write more about it.
With that said, if my wife would rather that my daughter be homeless than to provide assistance, it'd be a race to the clerk's office.
Now, if my daughter were 19 and in college, I would be in complete agreement with your statement.
At one time, I attempted to
At one time, I attempted to do precisely that. Two years in family court resulting in a ton of debt and a pyrrhic victory (if I could even call it that) was more than enough for me.
Me too. I'm not going to be
Me too. I'm not going to be part of a multi-wife marriage. What's set out in custody/divroce orders is one thing... but to have my husband willingly support another woman he used to bed with, as if she was a goddarn mistress? Eff that.
If it's "for the kids" - then do it for the kids. Take the kid on in your home. You take the kid out to eat. You buy the kid clothing. You buy the kid stuff. You don't pay your ex's mortgage. Critical or not, they're NOT YOUR PROBLEM.
What do you do.....? you are
What do you do.....?
you are asking the wrong person here..... as a SM myself, I would advice your wife... stay where you are and end this, this man is putting his teenage daughter miles above you.... it's simply just not worth it.
Be honest, you daughter does not like the new wife, your Ex wife does not like the new wife, they've made her life heel, she smiled and kept being friendly, till it went so far that she wants to move away.
Your daughter liked her and then you married her, that was the problem cause your daughter is thinking you choose a strange woman above her, now suddenly she feels uncomfortable in your house and she does not want to visit... do you know why??? Cause yo married and your daughter is not the lady of the manor anymore...
Your precious little snow flake is not innocent in driving your wife away..... you are just not seeing it cause you still feel guilty about the divorce and that your kid is growing up as a COD.... Your ex wife could've handled this way way better, but no instead she wants to meet you and have a talk - yup your ex wife is controlling your life just as much as your teen daughter....
you need to decide where your future lies, with your daughter or with your wife... and Sir... no teenage kid or ex wife has the right to decide your life for you.....
The problem here is that my
The problem here is that my wife and my daughter spend very little time alone. I am usually with them. I haven't seen my daughter treat her with disrespect. She sometimes will make a face if my wife tells her to clean her room, the bathroom, or to do any other chores. We have taken trips together to my wife's home state and my daughter had a blast. My daughter's mom (not my ex-wife) has never had an issue with that. Besides, if a personal issue between my wife and my daughter was the driving force for her to want to move back to her home state, I am sure that she would have mentioned that to me. She has simply mentioned that she wants to be with her family and friends.
I don't feel guilty about splitting up with my daughter's mother - that was well over ten years ago. She and I get along just fine. There were no issues between she and my ex-wife (the wife before my current wife), either.
You seem to be suggesting that my decision TRULY is one or the other - a future with my daughter or a future with my wife. No in-between or compromise. Is that right?
PS: What is a "COD"?
COD = Child of Divorce and in
COD = Child of Divorce and in some woman's point of view - Cash on Delivery
"She sometimes will make a face if my wife tells her to clean her room, the bathroom, or to do any other chores. "
Exactly and this is major disrespect, your wife lives in a house and your daughter is making a mess, thus if your wife asks her to clean she shows attitude... you can never be with them all the time... and belief me if you talk to your wife directly without any accusations etc she will probably tell you, your daughter told her, you are not my mother I do not have to listen to you...
TBH, A bit of a bait and
TBH, A bit of a bait and switch here isn't it? You made it clear that your last marriage ended because your Ex wanted to leave and you wanted to be geographically close to your daughter.
You made it clear that being local was a requirement. She wants that to change for whatever reason. Unfortunately, it is up to her to make a decision as you haven't changed the rules of the game.
I think you need to follow
I think you need to follow your gut and stay where you can finish raising your daughter.
After my wife issued this ultimatum, she called me a few days later in full meltdown mode. On one hand, she stated that she didn't want our marriage to end. On the other hand, she was doubling down on moving to her home state. She stated that I wasn't as important to my daughter as I thought and that my daughter would be just fine without seeing me. She told me that I was wrong to put my daughter as a higher priority than her. She told me that I was not respecting my wedding vows. Then, she suggested that I could still see my daughter for a time that's equal to what I have now - I would just have to see her over the summer and winter breaks. She then suggested that, if I had to see my daughter on the current schedule (the one that has existed since before her 1st birthday), I could pick up a job as a consultant where I travel 100% and am home on the weekends. We could maintain our house in Florida as well as her home state, and I can alternate the places that I fly home to on the weekends.
All of that, is her trying to manipulate you. I especially like the one about you not being as important to your daughter as you thought and she will be just fine without you.
Then, she goes on to make all of these "helpful" suggestions. If she feels that maintaining your home in Florida is an option, what's the problem? Why would you have to officially move and get a different job?
She is trying to pull a bait and switch, which is what she did in the beginning when she said she understood that you could not leave your daughter. Now, she wants you to leave your daughter. But wait, you don't really have to "leave" her, you can get a consulting job where you travel 100% of the time and aren't home with your wife, anyway. ????
Well, that perplexed me. If
Well, that perplexed me. If the point was for us to move to her home state to build a life together, that'd be awfully difficult if I am away from home during the work week and only home with her every other weekend.
In my mind, if we waited until my daughter were of age, there would be a much better outcome for a move. Not only would we have our debt under control by then, but there would no longer be child support (aside from my helping my daughter with any college expenses), or visitation constraints to deal with. I would be able to handle a job with a pay cut at the point. However, she just doesn't want to wait that long.
I would like to think that some of the things that she said were out of desperation, exasperation, anger, or all three. I feel awful for her, hate to see her hurting, and wish I could do something to alleviate the pain. However, I don't want for my daughter to be hurt in the process.
I have little sympathy for a
I have little sympathy for a grown adult who moves to a state of her own accord (before you met), finds a nice man to marry, then suddenly can't find enough "friends" to keep her happy. More directly, I have little sympathy for a grown adult who can't make friends on their own.
There are so many tools nowadays. Meetup.com and various other ways of finding people with the same interests are on the net. There's volunteer work, there are community gardens, there are book clubs, etc etc etc.
So her reasons for insisting on the move are ridiculous to me.
Now she says your young teen/tween daughter doesn't need you. Ugh. I would tell her don't let the door hit her on the way out.
There may very well be tension between your wife and your daughter that you could handle better. But your wife is throwing a box of grenades in the whole thing. My SD was a holy nightmare at that age. I did the hard work of bringing it up with my husband over and over and over. Not fun for either of us. But not once did I ever consider asking him to abandon her nor did it ever cross my mind she didn't need him.
I agree that there are things
I agree that there are things that I could be handling better as far as the tension between the two of them go. While I haven't seen tantrums, I-hate-yous, door slamming, or overt manipulation, I know that it certainly can't be ruled out.
My Dad married my Mom when I was a teenager. There was TONS of friction between he and I in the beginning. My Dad is a loud, profane, lovable, sweet old coot now. Back then, he was loud, profane and seemed to come up with twisted, inventive ways to punish myself and my brothers for our transgressions with exercise. There were times that he went overboard with the yelling and strictness that my Mom would jump in and back up the kids. However, my Mom would back up my Dad most of the time. My Dad is a funny one. When I saved up the money to buy my first car and my own insurance, he told me "the car is yours - you can do anything that you want with it or to it". One day, when my Mom was angry enough with me to demand my keys, my Dad actually intervened. He said "No, Joanie. You can't take his keys. That car belongs to him.". After a pause, he added "Now, we can control whether he leaves the house to get behind the wheel!".
Despite the turbulence of that time, neither my Mom nor Dad threatened to move away.
You did set the ground rules
You did set the ground rules before the marriage, so your current wife has no traction to force you to now change your mind. However, setting a rule like that lowers the odds of any marriage succeeding, since most women won't accept being second best to any skid. Marriage is a life equity partnership, not a dictatorship. Your current wife made an error in thinking she could change your mind when you clearly defined yourself as bound to your offspring.
However, there is enough unspoken about your daughter's "issues" that makes it a little suspicious that you are blind to the manipulations of women. This includes your clever snowflake. Is it not a little strange that both your wives have used "moving away" as a means of having daughter at a distance? Women sometimes don't say directly what is bothering them...instead they try to arrange things so that a problem is avoided. Your current wife probably know already that you are ultra-defensive of snowflake, whom I suspect is mighty jealous of anyone who claims her father's attention. There are a lot of subtle things that women do to each other that men are oblivious to. You need to accept tht even your own little girl is not an angel.
Sad, but you sound like you will need to accept that you are going to b a bachelor until snowflake grows up and gets busy with her own life. You have the economic advantage with the big pay job, but that doesn't mean you shouldn't offer compromise to achieve a successful relationship. For sure, daughter is not going to be there to change your Depends or wipe your dribbling chin when the time comes, so perhaps cultivating an ability to engage fairly with some give/take will finally net you an equitable partnership that lasts.
I never thought of myself as
I never thought of myself as ultra-defensive. If my wife corrects my daughter, I back her up and vice-versa. When there is an issue with my daughter, I do my level best to look at things objectively. Since there is a lot of emotion in this situation, I needed a little help to gain that perspective. That's why I came here.
As far as the succession of move-aways go, my ex-wife (wife #1) was not particularly involved with her aside from talking to her and sometimes preparing a meal for her. I did everything else. For the time before she moved away, she was mostly depressed due to her distance from her family and traveled to her home country to visit them every month or two for a couple of weeks. Since she was able to work remotely, she didn't even have to take time off. My ex-wife moved away when my daughter was not quite six years old. I would be very surprised if there was any manipulation going on with her.
As for my current wife, you may have a point. However, I have tried to address the problems that I can see as directly as I can. I don't have eyes on them all the time. Now, my wife has been pretty direct about problems. If there is something else that is driving her desire to move, she has yet to feel the need to tell me about it.
Lastly, I don't see my job and its pay as a lever against or in favor of compromise. The economics of a move, managing the new cost of living, and keeping up with existing obligations is a pretty absolute proposition - you can either afford to do it or not. Unfortunately, we have a lot of obligations that make it a very, very bad time to consider taking a pay cut. Of course, this is a workable problem in comparison to the main issue at hand.
Sueu2, Thank you. That was
Sueu2,
Thank you. That was helpful and provided a lot of insight; thanks for that.
You're absolutely right, my wife does not deserve being on the receiving end of a 13 year old's bad attitude - no one does. In those instances, I have told her "you don't have to like her, but you WILL respect her". Beyond that, I am sure there is more going on inside her head that I cannot see or am otherwise unaware of.
When my daughter's mom is in trouble, helping her directly benefits my daughter by shoring up the stability of her household. Of course, that doesn't mean that it shouldn't grind my wife's gears. Believe me, it does not give me pleasure to hand over more money to her than what I do already. And, you're right - finances should never be a topic of conversation with a child. I can accept that this is just one of the parts of the dynamic.
Counseling would be an excellent idea for the two of us. Though, I am concerned that the issue of she wanting to move away may have already hit critical mass. There are other issues at play here (e.g.: her aging parents and her desire to care for them, lack of friends where we live, her dislike of the people that live here, etc) that contribute to the sum total of our issues. At the very minimum, I could use the counseling to try to get at the root cause of this entire disaster and keep it from happening in the future. The question now is whether my wife chooses to be part of that future or not.
Of course, I am not going to give up, but I am preparing myself for the possibility of our marriage falling apart.
Thank you again!
I also think there is a lot
I also think there is a lot more going on than you are seeing, and counseling would a great step if you want to maintain this marriage.
I do see your wife trying to compromise in that she is okay with you flying back every other weekend to maintain your regular schedule, or to have the same amount of time but just on a different schedule--so I want you to understand that your wife is NOT asking you to have less time with your child, which is really the only issue that would arise if you were to move.
How many years is a few years?
Does your wife want children of her own? If she does want kids of her own, it is very normal she would want to be closer to her own family.
If she feels a distinct lack of friends in your area, she could be going through a period of feeling very alone in her life (small midlife crisis?) and it could have very little to do with your daughter. Or she could feel like she has very little control over her own life, especially if she used to be very passive and followed your decisions, and therefore she is attempting to exert control over her life. However, regardless I think your wife needs to step back in the care of your daughter because the things she said to her are HIGHLY inappropriate.
Honestly, if this was a dealbreaker to you, you should recognize that you may have to divorce and not date until your child is of an age you believe it would be okay for you to be more mobile--this is a hard truth because there are few people who would be happy being stuck in one place that they are unhappy being in, and it may very well feel like a prison to them even though it doesn't feel that way to you. You want them to sacrifice for you, but you may have to ultimately be the one to sacrifice in that you are not ready for a marriage (this is totally okay--I know if I divorced my husband tomorrow, I would not date or marry until they are adults even though that's 15+ years from now because it would not be fair to a partner since there will be a lot of things that I cannot compromise on for my children). In an intact family, this isn't really much of an issue because you'd just take your children with you, or you would feel more secure in moving because you feel your relationship is secure (my parents, as have most of my friends parents, have moved away for long periods of time and left us in the care of grandparents but it never mattered because our relationship never felt threatened since we were still "intact".)
I'm sorry you are in this position and I hope maybe you guys can work it out. Sounds like it's at a breaking point though and you may just have to let her go.
Her idea is to move to her
Her idea is to move to her home state and start a family there. As for flying back every other weekend, the job that I would require in order to be able to do that (practically and economically) would also require me to be away from home throughout the work week. Therefore, I would see my daughter every other weekend and then I would see my wife ONLY every other weekend, alternate to that. I can't possibly imagine how that kind of arrangement is conducive to starting a family.
I totally understand where she is coming from as it pertains to being "stuck" in one location. I have passed on FANTASTIC career opportunities that were offered to me with my employer on several occasions that would have taken me around the world. My career would take off if I would just allow myself to be relocated to other metro areas.
My daughter is 13, going on 14. So, we are talking about a little more than four years. I get that it is a lot. However, at the end of it are much, much more favorable conditions for a move from both a practical and economic perspective. I have tried to tell her that the move will be so much nicer once the stress of the custody/support arrangement and our debt is alleviated. No matter what I say, she isn't buying any of it. She just wants to leave ASAP.
Maybe direct your wife to
Maybe direct your wife to this site so she can tell us what she feels? Or go to couple's therapy so she can talk about what's really bothering her with a third person who can referee because therapists are usually trained to pick up subtle cues that you may not be seeing (or may be brushing off something she said even though it's actually the root of the issue), that she may not even realize is what she actually has an issue with.
I guessed right on the starting a family thing. I mean, once you realize you're stuck in a place where you are alone, your husband's ex and daughter both don't like you, you want to return and raise your children in a place where you felt the safest, and that would be with her family in her hometown. Can you understand that? Coupled with that now, because you discussed her without her input, it feels like her husband is against her too? (Even if you didn't mean to, it's likely what she felt.)
You know, sometimes there isn't enough money in the world to buy mental and emotional peace. I know when my husband and I were in a really bad spot, I was willing to walk out with nothing but the clothes on my back and 50/50 custody with my kids (even though I own most of the assets we have--I was literally willing to give it all to him as long as he wouldn't fight me leaving.) As long as I could get away from the crazy, I didn't care what that cost me. I think your wife is at that point.
A big portion of our issues stemmed from my husband's mother, and once he shielded me from her (after lots of couple's therapy), we made it through and are still holding strong. I essentially didn't even realize I couldn't handle it until I was at that point.
You have made a good point. I
You have made a good point. I would love to show her this forum. However, at this point, she probably wouldn't handle it well. If we make it to couple's counseling, having her visit this forum, read this thread, and then creating her own handle could help her to get a bit of perspective.
I think you are right. She wants to be where she is safe. Here, she has no support system other than me. I have my extended family (she doesn't really like them, but that's another story) here, and my parents are moving out here soon, but she has no one. I can certainly understand how she feels trapped and restricted from living the life that she wants. She has told me that she feels as though I am against her and it just rips my heart out. But, the one thing that she wants me to do is the one thing that I absolutely cannot - leave my daughter. She feels that she has sacrificed enough. In her mind, she probably has and then some. Maybe we both need the presence of someone who is cool, objective, and calm to help us point out the middle ground that I hope to God that we can find.
I am hoping that she can calm down enough for us to find a therapist and start talking through this stuff, and trying to figure out a way for there to be a workable arrangement whereby we can start building the life that she needs while making sure that I can tend to the needs of my daughter.
Do you feel like she
Do you feel like she sacrificed enough though? I ask because your response that "In her mind" seems like you believe whether or not she has sacrificed to be in her head, rather than you actually thinking she has sacrificed. She sacrificed where she wanted to live, friends, family, having a husband with more baggage than she brought in, dealing with a disordered ex, a child who has now made her feel like she is the problem, and a husband that also seems to think she is overreacting. Sacrificing where she wants to raise her children may be her hard line.
You say she doesn't like your family, is there any reason for this? And I notice that you worded it similarly to some other things "My wife doesn't like the people here" "She doesn't like my daughter's mother" etc. which implies you believe your wife is the issue, not the people around--just an observation. Not sure if you're catching it and might be part of why she feels like you are against her, because the way you word it seems like it's solely her problem. A lot of your wording, while subtle, does give the impression that you blame your wife for how she feels (even though that may not be the case.)
Okay, so she has told you she feels like you're against her as well. I'm sure a lot of things have happened to make her think that, and they may be things you thought were very normal, but actually created these issues. A lot of people don't realize that they are trying to run away from the trigger of the behavior that causes them to feel unhappy. In this case, she feeling like you are against her because of the triggers: your ex and your daughter, when in reality, you may be the one who is not handling these situations in the most optimal way.
I hope you guys can find a good couple's therapist to solve your issues. If your therapist comes to the conclusion that you guys should move (but maintain the same visitation schedule), or move sooner (like in 2 years instead of 4), would you be able to take that?
You see, not to delve too
You see, not to delve too much into the dynamic between my daughter's mom and I, things weren't always a "happy family". She has a certain ... personality disorder that required a LOT of work and restraint to maintain a healthy level of civility. Combined with having a very hot temper, it really made for a handful. After that, it took more work to move that up to having a good working relationship as it pertains to our child. Prior to that, she would call me lots of names (the entry next to my name in her mental thesaurus has got to be many pages long), make threats against me, my extended family, or anyone else that I cared about. However, we never, ever, ever let any of that show to our daughter - in the past or the present.
My wife, on the other hand, strongly dislikes my daughter's mom - simply can't stand her. As a matter of fact, my wife has refused to say more than 2-3 words with my daughter's mom. My wife also has a pretty hot temper. This discussion was held at my daughter's mom's house - her turf. Besides the fact that the drive to my daughter's mom's house is a long distance (~75 miles from home), I know that there is a good chance that there would have been a blow up. When my daughter's mom asks for those kinds of sit-down discussions, I know that there is something gravely wrong.
With that said, I really didn't want for a potentially powder-keg situation to go nuclear in front of my daughter by having my wife present at this type of discussion and losing her temper with my daughter's mom. For that reason, I did not even tell my wife what had happened until after the discussion. To bring her to that discussion would have provoked a huge blow-up in front of my daughter - and I would have been asking for it. I fully debriefed with my wife regarding the content of the discussion so that she knew what was going on. Fortunately, these kinds of discussions rarely happen.
As for my daughter having a phone, the reasoning was that she walked home from school and her mom wanted a way to get a hold of her. She had upgraded her phone and gave her old phone to her as a hand-me-down. I didn't have a problem with her having a phone - I had a problem with her internet usage. That is a whole other issue that caused my daughter's mom and I to go a few rounds over. That's another story.
As for not wanting to upset my "sensitive little girl", I correct her behavior on a regular basis. Loss of privileges, manual labor, and other punishments are leveraged, depending on the situation. When my wife carries those punishments out, I not only let her, I back her up. The only punishment she is NOT allowed to use is corporal punishment. I'm sorry if it may seem lopsided or not giving my wife her place, but allowing her that would be irresponsible and playing with fire.
No ... I didn't go behind my
No ... I didn't go behind my wife's back. I had to pick my daughter up for our weekend. That is how the topic of my daughter not wanting to go to my house had come up. That was then followed by my daughter's mom telling me that we needed to talk. I told my wife where I was and why. Lastly, why are you connecting "full meltdown mode" with something that had happened a few months ago? Am I missing something?
I do not dispute my wife's right to dislike my daughter's mom. Many days, I share the sentiment - I just don't show it to my daughter's mom nor in the presence of my daughter. Sometimes I will vent my frustration to my wife or share her frustration, but that is seldom. Where did I mention my daughter being in arms to protect her mom? Perhaps my memory is failing me, but I do not see any mention on my part of her trying to protect her mom. There could be toxicity aimed at myself and my wife, but aside from the few issues that I have cited in my post, there has been nothing more observed by me, and NOTHING reported by my wife. My wife is not a meek, submissive person - believe me.
My apologies, it was not my intention to go directly towards the "absurd". However, it seems that the fact that my wife issued me an ultimatum to move with her or else, coupled with the fact that she happens to be a step-mother has led some to presume that my daughter is some kind of machiavellian genius bent on ensuring that I spend my days as a bachelor. Is she perfect? NO! Do I realize that? YES! Many of the posts that I see here seem to be very much against the kids, and I fully get that it is caused by a lot of hurt and frustration. Regardless, no one here knows my daughter, yet refer to her as a "sensitive little girl" or "snowflake". Those comments are offered to me (the guy looking for help) with plenty of toxic, bitter, snark piled on. I'm sorry, but I find this to be small, petty, and mean coming from adults.
I came here to get a step-parent's perspective on a simple issue - not to have people make assumptions about my daughter and sling their perspective regarding her that I did not ask for. Perhaps I chose the wrong place for perspective and help.
I didn't go behind her back.
I didn't go behind her back. I had to pick my daughter up. I told her that her mom needed to talk to me and I debriefed her afterwards.
"Regardless, no one here knows my daughter, yet refer to her as a "sensitive little girl" or "snowflake"." ---- "I have a daughter from a previous relationship who is a sweet, sensitive, highly intelligent girl. "
Right ... so I should not describe my daughter with anything positive?
"What did you come here for? So that we could all tell you that your wife is a ridiculous, bitter hag and needs to immediately beg your forgiveness? You're on your third? failed marriage and you refuse to see the one common thing involved. Maybe when you get your debt paid off you can spring for a revolving front door to accommodate the foot traffic that your daughter and her mother scare off. There's your snark, bucko."
Certainly not to have my daughter torn down by adults who do not know her, and certainly not to have my wife called ridiculous, bitter, or to figure out some "magic" to make her come to me for forgiveness. Please. Not once in anything that I wrote can I see where that could be my intent. So, why are you assuming that?
Second, this is my second marriage. I have only been married twice. My first wife left before my daughter turned six years old. Let me guess, five year olds can be evil, manipulative, and deserving the ire of grown adults?
How about the common thread being two women that are not from the place that I live? How about they being people who are very close to their families, friends, and are homesick for them?
As for why I came here, my apparently flawed logic told me that step-parents would be able to give me their perspective as it pertains to my wife - not insult my daughter.
If you have to insult someone, insult me. Leave my kid the hell out of it!
I think we're really confused
I think we're really confused as you said, quoted in your previous post "For that reason, I did not even tell my wife what had happened until after the discussion." which implied you knew what was going to happen (a discussion) beforehand but you didn't tell your wife until after.
I apologize if that's not what you meant but that's what people are reading into it because of how you worded it.
To answer your question (although it's neither here nor there), 5 and 6 year olds have broken up marriages not because they are terrible in themselves (my own toddlers drive me crazy so I can't imagine what people who aren't related to them thing) but because their parents are blind to behaviors that can be disrespectful to someone who did not create them. I often have to take a step back with my own children in that it even takes me some time to recognize behavior that would be unacceptable if I was not their parent.
Now, we did give you perspective but you seem to take any criticism towards the possibility that your daughter could be manipulative or causing the issues as an attack on her. In this case, the actual issue might be how you take things (and how you explain things), and not your kid or your ex.
I responded to one of your
I responded to one of your posts: "The request for a talk came as I was on my way to pick my daughter up. I talked to my daughter's mom and my daughter while I was picking her up. All the while, I told my wife why I was taking so long in picking my daughter up (I usually call her when I am on my way home) and that I would catch her up as soon as I could."
I don't have a problem with people criticizing myself, my parenting, my choices, etc. But, I took exception to what I believed were overt insults. Some people may call it snark, or a tone, or whatever. I call it an insult. I didn't come here looking for help with my daughter. I came here to try to understand where my wife is coming from and to check to see if I am thinking clearly about the ultimatum issued to me by my wife.
My daughter is not perfect, but I think that she is a sweet, sensitive, intelligent girl. If describing my daughter in that way is bait for an attack here, I definitely came to the wrong place.
Adults, most of whom I presume are caretakers of their own children and those of their spouses, flinging nasty comments toward my daughter is unnecessary and uncalled for.
I'm just saying that if people feel the need to insult someone, do it to me, not her.
I also think he shouldn't
I also think he shouldn't move mainly because it doesn't solve the problem and will only make more. I think he's right in that he stays close with his daughter. The teenage years are hard.
SuperJew, I described my
SuperJew,
I described my daughter as "sensitive" in my original post. My original post was simply about seeking to make sense of my wife's ultimatum. There was no step-parenting issue to dissect.
Do you really mean for me to believe that you calling my daughter "sensitive" was meant in the same context as mine after having read your message? Another poster referring to my daughter as a "snowflake"? It doesn't matter how much or how often I insist that my daughter is held accountable for her actions, nor how often I back up my wife when it pertains to disciplining my daughter, the die is cast in your eyes. The kid's bad, my wife is suffering, and apparently, I am a spineless half-wit who is also capable of deceiving my wife to hold discussions with my daughter's mom behind her back. The fact is, nothing can be further from the truth.
I didn't come here to ask for advice about a step-parenting problem. My original post was about a marriage and a situation that befell it with the hopes that people who are walking in my wife's shoes could speak to it. It was not about my daughter, and certainly not an invitation for people to give coarse and uncalled for commentary about her.
Lastly, I think that I have been mostly polite in this thread. What have I done to deserve a "jab"? I asked for help, and most people have given me their heartfelt, thoughtful opinions. What did I do to you?
Okay, I thought we
Okay, I thought we established that the way you worded it did seem like that was what you were saying. You have cleared that up.
You have to realize the perils of step-parenting is also intricately linked with your marriage so to say you came for marriage advice rather than step-parenting advice is a little strange given that it is most likely deeply connected. What we usually see here is that the fathers (and mothers) believe their kids are inherently good, hold them accountable (as much as they believe is warranted), and may be blind to the fact that small things that don't seem like a big deal to them is actually a big deal to their partners, but they choose to believe their partners are overreacting rather than that there may be something wrong, or something that can cause our partners to be unhappy.
I can give you an example my husband and I had with our own daughter. We were on vacation, on the boardwalk at the beach, and my daughter and husband are holding hands, walking ahead of me, while I'm carrying our leftover lunch. For a moment, I knew if I was a stepparent instead of my daughter's mother, I'd feel like a third wheel, ignored, and excluded. But because I am my own daughter's mother, it's cute to me that my husband and our child have such a bond. I was only aware because I am part of a stepparent board and am a stepparent myself. Our daughter crawling between us in the mornings is cute to us as her parents, but would be inappropriate in a step situation.
That's why we try to understand the dynamics of your marriage through that angle first, because you are presenting it as an issue of your daughter and your wife. It could possibly have nothing to do with the step situation, but as you portrayed it, it does--your wife feeling like her vs. everyone else, including you, so is it any wonder she wants to go to a place where she feels like she has people on her side too?
Also, forums are like this--there will always be people who say things you don't like, if you can't sit back and ignore that which pushes your buttons, then you will spend your time arguing and going off on tangents. You may also want to examine that which DOES push your buttons--I know I learned the most about myself of the things I get most defensive about.
Oh god, or when DD4 wants a
Oh god, or when DD4 wants a hug and a kiss when DH is giving me a hug? Sometimes even I can't take it. If it was once in a while, fine, but it's ALL THE TIME. If this was not my child, I'd have flipped long ago.
Wait, I thought you said your
Wait, I thought you said your ex asked you to talk so you drove and had the discussion with her?
Unless what happened was that your ex asked you to talk, you didn't tell your wife, had the talk while you were picking your daughter up, then told your wife after the fact when you were already there and she couldn't say no?
It may have happened a few months ago, but the longer something like that sits, the longer it sours so it's possible that coupled with feeling like she's being blamed for marrying you (and causing your daughter to not want to come over--even if you don't say it, it's possible she may be taking it that way). She may feel like she is unreasonable in even being upset about it, but she does have a right... I would be upset about it as well.
This is a good place to start, I think counseling would help, if nothing else than to give clarity and closure, but honestly you guys are at definite crossroads. It's no one's fault, just a matter of circumstance.
The request for a talk came
The request for a talk came as I was on my way to pick my daughter up. I talked to my daughter's mom and my daughter while I was picking her up. All the while, I told my wife why I was taking so long in picking my daughter up (I usually call her when I am on my way home) and that I would catch her up as soon as I could.
I was referring to it being a
I was referring to it being a very good decision to not say "hold on, let's call my wife", and put her on speakerphone so as to include her in the discussion. She knew where I was (on my way to pick up my daughter), what I was doing (talking to my daughter's mom), and that I was going to debrief with her after the discussion. With that said, there was NO deception - neither real nor intended. I told my wife everything that happened after the discussion took place.
Uh. Wow. So... I thought he
Uh. Wow. So... I thought he was pretty reasonable until the with-holding information from the wife of a discussion where he drives 75 miles to an ex's house so that he avoids conflict with his wife because he believes she will lose her temper.
If your wife had kids with a man who made threats against her and her family (and likely you), who has a mental disorder, and she went to his house to "talk about the kids" without your input and only gave you a "debriefing" after, would you be happy about it?
I'm guessing the issue is more the mother, less the kid (as evidenced by she is willing to have the kid over for an entire summer). We here deal with mentally disordered BMs all the time, and while the husbands might be used to their crazy and have normalized it (as well as developed less than stellar boundaries to "keep the peace"), we see it for what it is: toxic and insane and rightfully want no part of it.
Let her go. I think you're a good dad for not wanting to move, and rightfully so. That would be my stance as well. I think she reneged on her end of the deal because she didn't know what she was getting into, thinking she could handle it, but finding out she can't. She gave you the ultimatum, and even though I know guys are "fixers" and want to find that one magical solution that they think will make everyone happy--sometimes there is no middle ground.
Let her find someone without kids so she can start a family without feeling trapped or that there is a third (and fourth) person in her marriage that is influencing things in her life (hence the feeling of being controlled by forces she cannot have input in). The person who is supposed to protect her from feeling like she is unimportant can't do that because he believes since he is a parent, he is allowed to make decisions without consulting her (and going to an ex's house, regardless of the reason, without getting an okay from your wife, is a pretty big one).
You might consider only dating for 4 years before considering marriage while your child is a minor and you do have to communicate with your ex.
I want to give you a little bit of advice and that's that if you want your future relationships to work, you should probably not do things that would seem like a slap in the face to your partner, even if you do not believe it should or that they SHOULD understand, but if it's something you yourself may be uncomfortable with if the shoe was on the other foot, then you should probably not do it.
You're right. I do my best to
You're right. I do my best to be "the heavy" so that my wife doesn't have to. On the other hand, if she isn't able to directly assert authority, she feels as though she hasn't been given her place.
^^ Good advice. ^^ Don't
Don't move. Your daughter needs you. Start thinking out of the box and brainstorm with wife for solutions. She may have some great ideas which don't include running back to her old homeplace. Lack of friends and meaningful work where you live is your wife's issue and not for you to solve. The temperature at home? Ah, that you have some control over.
Ultimatums rarely work and
Ultimatums rarely work and even it complied with are usually the death knell of a relationship. I don't envy you this situation or decision.
Generally I am not one to suggest prioritizing a kid over a spouse... however, your DW's actions do not pass the smell test IMHO.
Be very, very, careful.
Good luck.
I find this to be an issue of
I find this to be an issue of bailing on the partnership... at least on the surface. When these types of moves are made they are rarely the decision of only one partner. The OP and his DW far more likely than not chose to make the move together. Now the DW is effectively saying "move or else".
Not the action of a partner of character IMHO.
I get that moves are difficult. I understand the challenges and the feelings of lack of stability.
But.... one partner pulling the plug and mandating that the other comply..... nope.... not in my world.
The plug is pulled probably
The plug is pulled probably because she was at the end of her rope. I don't think anyone is wrong in this case. I think it's just two people who want different things in life and that's okay. One of them had the guts to finally say it. Or she had said it a few times before in escalating urgency and he didn't get how important it was until this point. Some people can pick up the cue of when something is a serious matter, and others can't unless they're hit over the head with a club.
My DH falls into the latter group. He has trouble distinguishing what is serious, and even sometimes if I say, "This is serious and I need you to listen" he STILL will think there's room for a joke or two until he really upsets me, and then he has to apologize for something he didn't have to if he had just took it seriously the first time around.
I agree with you, Rags. The
I agree with you, Rags. The wife had moved there of her own volition before she ever met him. She must have had reasons for doing so knowing that her parents lived elsewhere and all her friends as well.
Now she doesn't like it but she's demanding her dh do the same exact thing she apparently regrets? How on earth is that fair or loving or reasonable?
I am the first one to say that stepmothering can be a godawful gig. But it doesn't excuse you from having to be a good partner yourself. The bm sounds horrific. Lots of stress with that. The kid doesn't sound so bad but let's say she is. You do NOT tell your husband "I'm moving far away because I haven't got any friends so you need to leave your young child." You CAN say, "I have to move away because I cannot live with this kid and her mother in my life. I am sorry this couldn't work for me." Of course, you say that second thing after many, many, many other discussions and efforts. You don't just pull it out of a hat suddenly.
Or she could even say, "my parents need me, your daughter needs you --let's figure out how to make this work." <----that one would be a person who values her marriage and is trying to be a good partner.
Joe, if this blows up, and it does not look good right now, when you eventually date again disqualify every chick you meet who is not native to where you want to live. Just don't ask them out at all. Save yourself going through this torture again.
"Joe, if this blows up, and
"Joe, if this blows up, and it does not look good right now, when you eventually date again disqualify every chick you meet who is not native to where you want to live. Just don't ask them out at all. Save yourself going through this torture again."
God forbid it blows up. But, if it does, your advice is very, very sound.
Danielle, I will try to
Danielle,
I will try to address each of your points:
Joe, No doubt there was
Joe,
No doubt there was extensive and reasonable thought put into the move that landed you, your bride, and your daughter in the geographic situation you are all in.
Like you, I am both a man and very analytical. It is difficult for us engineeric (my XWs word for how the engineers in the Rags clan think) type folks to factor in the emotion that many use in making decisions. Emotion is not an analysis or decisioning element. I find this to be one of the fairly frequent discussion and disagreement factors when this community dives into an issue. I don't factor in the emotion.
Though my bride is all woman with the thought and logic patterns that entails she is also a CPA and very analytical. This is probably why she and I have been able to effectively partner in our marriage for most of the nearly 23 years we have been navigating life together. Our differences and similarities are mutually complimentary.
That is a good point. My wife
That is a good point. My wife is a bit more emotional than me. She sometimes gets frustrated with how I analyze problems. Likewise, I get frustrated when she is looking at the pure human element of a problem and not the empirical data or black-and-white facts. While we both have blinders on at times, we have been starting to learn how each of our perspectives could compliment one another. Hopefully, we will be able to continue to do so.
"Her idea is to move to her
"Her idea is to move to her home state and start a family there. As for flying back every other weekend, the job that I would require in order to be able to do that (practically and economically) would also require me to be away from home throughout the work week. Therefore, I would see my daughter every other weekend and then I would see my wife ONLY every other weekend, alternate to that. I can't possibly imagine how that kind of arrangement is conducive to starting a family."
Basically his wife would like to start a family in her home town (given she highly dislikes the environment of where she is now, she probably believes it's not place she'd like to raise her kids in), he wants to wait 4 years to move, which means she would be waiting minimum 4 years to have kids. Puts her at 35+ for first baby.
Meh, I think it boils down to her biological clock ticking, and she feeling like she sacrificed enough and sacrificing starting a family where and when she wants has become her hard line.
I'm not sure where you are
I'm not sure where you are getting that she is asking him to give up his kid. She asked him to compromise and maintain two homes and maintain the current visitation schedule with his child. If nothing changes as far as his visitation with his daughter, that's not asking him to give her up.
However, I agree it's a dealbreaker. I think she should move back home and find a guy who doesn't have this baggage. I think he should wait until his daughter aged out to find someone else to marry. For my kids, I wouldn't move either (unless it was absolutely necessary, like apocalyptic.) Most women would want to have their kids in what they believe is the ideal place. I believe you can understand that desire (whether or not reality dictates it's achievable is a different story). She most likely feels trapped like even where or when she wants to have kids is up to forces extraneous to her marriage. Human beings don't do well under this kind of pressure. He wants everything his way because it's for his kid. I think she's tired of sacrificing yet another part of her life and just wants things her way for once. I get that, I really do.
I've broken down before because I used to do everything according to my husband's schedule because his explanations always made it seem like the things he wants to do is far more important than what I want to do. Until one day I freaked out and told him I could not live under his schedule anymore and he either did some things on my schedule or we were over. It was on me that I didn't push back at the beginning of the relationship and allowed us to fall into the pattern of putting myself second to him all the time so that he was used to it, thinking that he would one day reciprocate. But I was wrong in that he couldn't reciprocate because he wasn't used to it. DH was genuinely shocked the day I freaked out, even though I had been gently trying to talk about it for months leading up to me blowing up, but because I wasn't crying upset, he didn't think it was that important--until it was.
Besides, making a family with her doesn't seem like a priority to him--even the way he words it is what she wants, not what they both desperately desire. Maybe it's really not that important to him if they have kids together? In that case, all the more reason to call her bluff and let her go.
Actually, I very much want to
Actually, I very much want to have a family with her. She knows it, and we have been trying, too. I just didn't write about that here as I did not feel that it needed to be in the scope of the discussion. That's all.
Uh... are you sure she's not
Uh... are you sure she's not already pregnant? And going into full nesting mode? I think what you believe is relevant and what others believe may be relevant is a bit different.
When people are not pregnant, they want to be around people who are genetically dissimilar and hence, find the scent of men who have immunological opposite genes with them attractive. When they get pregnant, they find those with similar genes comforting. The theory is that in ancient times, females would leave the family group, get knocked up, and then go back to the family group to have and raise their children. We get highly irritable and nothing our partner does is right mainly because the core of our hormones do not like them. It's also why some sociologists believe the rate of divorce is so high these days--birth control tricks the body into thinking it's pregnant (and you obviously can't get more pregnant) and therefore you choose different mates than you would have if you weren't taking it. Women are on BC and then get married, stop BC, have kids, and then after find out that they don't like the man after all. This obviously isn't true across the board but it seems to be a variable. So if she already is... and wants to desperately move back among her family, that... would make sense.
Anyway, as it is now, I'd hold off on trying (if there already isn't a bun in the oven) until you guys either sort this out or leaves. Because if she gets pregnant and you guys break up, and she moves back to her home state anyway, what are you going to do then? You want to be here for your daughter, but now you have another kid in another state who also needs you. So in order to make sure she doesn't force your hand by getting knocked up, you guys need to hold off on the babymaking.
Probably THE biggest ask.
Probably THE biggest ask. Children would be the dealbreaker for me because as someone who works in a field supplementing fertility treatments (when even IVF has failed), women in their thirties who are slowly losing hope month after month of failure... yeah, I would rather marry a guy who I don't love as passionately but is willing to start a family with me on my biological timeline, than a guy I may be passionate about but he always needs it to be on HIS timeline. My eggs ain't waitin' to drop every month. Passion dries up. Having kids, if that's something you want, is one of those things you may never get if you miss that chance.
Ask my aunt who used to cry every time she held me and my sister because she had missed the window due to her husband asking her to wait for the right time.
While that is an issue, why
While that is an issue, why can't they compromise? Have a child together sooner, where they currently live, and once his daughter finishes highs school, their child together would be getting ready to go to school, and they move where the wife wants.
Personally, having my own children was very important to me, and I resented my Dh having SD the longer my infertility lasted, even though it wasn't their fault. Once I finally had my son, most issues with SD with minimized. I found I just didn't care anymore. This may be an underlying issue in this case, but it's not readily obvious.
My SD was 14 when I met DH. I did not do an ounce of the parenting of SD. I did voice my opinion many a time, but it was up to my DH whether or not he took it. Most of the time he wouldn't comment, but I would inwardly feel better when I would hear him tell her verbatim things I said to him. There were also plenty of times DH went to BM's to have discussions regarding SD. I was better off not part of that. I never offered opinions about BM to SD, even when BM was dragging DH to court for more money, after they had already come to agreements on issues.
If OP's daughter is only there every other weekend, how much parenting does her SM need to actually do?? I would think there doesn't need to be any beyond, "clean up after yourself". My DH was always with SD on the weekends she visited. I definitely did not agree with some of the parenting choices my DH made with SD. A very big situation that occurred the night before her 18th birthday brought me to this site, wondering if her behavior was remotely normal. I didn't have to agree with everything my DH did in order for our marriage to work.
Teenage years are tough, and if the BM has a mental illness, SD will really need OP to be available in the coming years. My SD's BM can be very unreasonable, and DH has called her a lunatic on many occasions. DH has had to calm SD down many times during SD's and BM's fights, and he was often used as a mediator between the two of them, and still is today even though SD is now 26. OP should definitely not move further away at this time. IMO
I agree that she should have
I agree that she should have taken him saying he would not move seriously--I guess she thought she could handle it and now she can't because when biology pushes, it defies rhyme or reason. She gave him the ultimatum, and I hope she is prepared (it sounds like she is) for it to end the marriage.
As I said above, the way he words things make it seem like everything is on his wife. SHE wants to start a family, SHE doesn't like the in-laws, SHE doesn't like the BM, SHE doesn't like the town, SHE feels like he is against her too. I mean it gives me the feeling he doesn't desperately desire a family with her the way she desires a family--it's what SHE wants, not what they both want. Everything else is apparently on his wife, it's her emotions that needs to be in check, not what other people may have done to elicit this negative emotional response. He might acknowledge that his in-laws are difficult, the BM is disordered, and that she has a right to dislike them BUT if he can work with it, why can't she? That's not very empathetic or sympathetic.
DH desperately wanted to build a family with me, I don't know if I could have stayed with a guy who was lukewarm about having kids with me--I'd question how much and how active he would be as a father.
If this is the way he explains things in real life, I can see why she would feel he is against her as well, even if in his heart of hearts, he is all for her, his execution and delivery makes it seem the opposite.
What I'm saying is what he
What I'm saying is what he possibly feels and what he says out loud (or types up in this case) seems to be at odds. Just according to what he writes, it seems the person who feels a desperation for a family is his wife, while he's just along for the ride. However, what he IS really desperate for is to be there for his kid (as he should be.)
I'm not entirely sure what you are trying to argue, as I agree that he should not move. I also believe his wife has had enough (and many women in her position would have.) Therefore it would be prudent to break up because neither of them are going to be happy. In 4 years, who's to say he's not going to change his mind about both moving and having more kids? I think that is an uncertainty I couldn't live with. If I was in my early 20's, sure I'd wait it out. Not in my 30's if having kids was a priority to me.
I mean you can't possibly be suggesting his wife stay and be miserable for the next 4 years, right? It's only going to escalate. It may end with her having anxiety or depression and his marriage is in the garbage anyway (who'd want to live like that?)
Some of us new mothers are
Some of us new mothers are capable of raising our newborns without support. Some of us, like myself, do not have mothers or sisters, and any extended family is in another country. I have 3 boys, 6, 5, and 2, and have managed on my own. While it would be nice to have support, it's not a basic necessity. For me, it was more important to have the babies with only my husband than not have them at all.
I am away from my family (but
I am away from my family (but only an hour) and I wished I could have been closer because my parents were older when they had myself and my younger sister so although driving is a bit difficult for them, they never had any problems watching the DDs when I needed them to. I also wish we could have because the language--DD1's mandarin is so rudimentary and DD2 will probably follow suit. It would have been easier raising them where at least a portion of their time was spent in an environment where english was not the primary language (although I'm fluent in mandarin, my husband is white and can't speak a lick of it, so switching back and forth was tried for a little bit until I started getting confused and exhausted.) It breaks my heart that my mom, who can barely speak english, can't understand DD and vice versa, even though they love each other very much.
If I had to do it again, I would have insisted we moved back to where my parents were. It's been unbelievably difficult raising them virtually by myself.
I had my mother living down
I had my mother living down the street. At one time, she was living 2 doors over in a 4 unit rowhouse.
She watched the kids for me less times than I have fingers on my left hand.
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