Does Disengaging = "winning"?
so for the last 3 weekday visits ive managed to disengage by hitting the gym first, then coming home and goig straight to our room to shower, read, relax. i have not eaten dinner with SD13 and fiance. to fiance's credit, he has cooked and fed himself and SD without complaint. i feel bad because i love to cook for fiance; i just dont want to have to share a meal with SD that she wont appreciate and that ill have to watch be eaten with her hands. i also can no longer tolerate her manipulations and her false politeness. he chooses to eat in and not take her out becuase he doesnt want to reward her with dinner out because he doesnt think she deserves it either and her lack of table manners is really bothering him too (especially since his brother just called him out on it).
i know fiance is bummed that im not eating with them not because he has to cook but becuase he likes the idea of the 3 of us together, and sitting down to a nice meal is something we do everynight togehter and always have, even on nights SD isnt with us. but he understands and has told SD13 when she asks why im not eating with them.
but here's my question - is she viewing my disengagement as "winning"? I dont care who "wins" per se, but my concern is that if she thinks she is "winning" that she will continue (or worsen) her behavior because she thinks she can "win" more battles, including the ultimate one which is to have me gone? Fiance has made it crystal clear to her im not going anywhere.
This is true. But I would
This is true. But I would add, disengaging isn't physically removing yourself from everything either. It's learning not to care one bit and not to say a word. That's pretty difficult, I admit!
And I was just thinking, make sure she always sits off to your side so you don't have to look at her, and go back to eating with them - just serve soup lol! Love to see her eat that with her hands!
im on the fence about the
im on the fence about the arrangement/disengagement.
on the one hand its nice to be removed, but on the other hand i do feel sad/hurt that its come to this.
things seemed so on track until the custody battle started in October and then our engagmennt in December.
is it possible to get back on track or have these two major events forever changed the relationship between SD and I for the worse?
i dont think its winning or
i dont think its winning or losing. in her mind she may be winning cuz u're not around and she gets her daddy to herself.
if your so is 'bummed', then he needs to actually handle it. if her manners bother him, HE needs to fix it. winning or losing is not the issue, he needs to step up a bit here...
we have been working with her
we have been working with her to eat properly. but she constantly slips and gives us teh "im just so used to it!" line. of course you are. its a habit. a nasty habit.
what is his technique to
what is his technique to 'work with her on it'?
and what happens when she "slips up?"??
basically just riding her ass
basically just riding her ass to use her fork, not use her hands, etc.
when she slips nothing happens. her mother refuses to get on board with us to help correct this issue. the only punishment we can give her is to take away her phone but we've already done that (she's not allowed to have it with us ever, because of other ongoing unrelated problems).
got'cha. here's an idea-
got'cha. here's an idea- give her a set # (i like a "3 strikes adn your out"), then a consequence connected to mealtime.
she knows the house rules regarding manners. the third time she has to be reminded about any table manner, SHE gets sent to her room. or, you could put a chair and tv tray in the corner and she can eat there facing the wall. BUT it would have to be your dh who does the reminding and the enforcing of a consequence.
there's no reason you should not be able to eat a pleasant meal in peace. if you like to cook, and it's EDIBLE by her standards, there's no reason you should not be able to cook without being snarked at by her. and there's no reason you should feel like you have to exile yourself to your room just to avoid her horrendous table manners.
i love those ideas. but i
i love those ideas. but i know fiance wont do it.
as of late ive been getting alot of "you expect too much" and "i want her to be happy and comfortable here, not like its a boot camp".
i even tried to explain to her once that we were also trying to spare her from embarrassment. i said what if your BF takes you out to dinner with his parents and they see you eating like this? of course she said that she didnt care and that her BF didnt care either.
sounds like he needs a Come
sounds like he needs a Come to Jesus talk.
something along the lines of:
you want her to be happy? TEACH HER how to handle herself properly. you want her to be comfortable? how about make it so strangers arent making faces at her in restaurants. i, as SM, am expecting too much? ask your brother his unbiased opinion. wait, he already gave it. YOU expecting too little of her, she's not a toddler anymore, she's a young lady- and YOU need to come to grips with that!
I'm not sure where you live
I'm not sure where you live or what your cultural/ethnical background is, but in my family, "the family dinner" is something rather sacred and semi-formal. No we don't dress up and eat with straight backs, but we all eat together at a table that is cleaned and set up nightly with no distractions (no TV, no toys, etc). It took me a LOOOOOONG time to get this point across to both my DW and my SS. So with that said, not being at the dinner table for supper would make me feel like I have "lost" in a way. I totally understand what you are doing and why you are doing this however, and from my understanding, "disengaging" is an effort to save yourself. It is not a form of manipulation, nor is it a way to force other members of the family see/ do things your way. By disengaging, you are removing yourself emotionally from a situation that causes you nothing but pain and grief. So in that sense, you can say that you are winning. SD may think that she is winning here, but who cares? That is not the point of disengaging. Disengaging is about saving YOU!
I agree with everything. The
I agree with everything. The game is fixed. It's not who wins or loses but how you play.
I had to seriously think
I had to seriously think about the same thing. I know what you mean about 'winning'. A few years back, SD gave me a smirk while hugging 'daaaaaadddddddyyyyyy'. I immediately disengaged. That night. PERIOD. (this was the straw that broke the camel's back, so to speak)
I did something similar to you. I started some classes on days when she was with us, I made plans with friends, and I made myself crazy busy with wedding plans. It took a few weeks, but one day SD asked why I hadn't been around. I said, "Sure I have, but you and Dad should spend some time together too." and I walked away. She continued to be underfoot for weeks, and I sidestepped it all. She became a good kid for a few weeks, I still stayed away.
She then understood she can't control my behaviour, with her good or bad behaviour. It has taken 3 years- but she knows she has no power when it comes to me and DH and our marriage. (She pulled a, "If OCS is there, I'm not coming." )DH said, OK- don't come. I know I'm lucky because we don't have custody, but consistency is key. Then she won't think she's 'winning'.
I dont know about the winning
I dont know about the winning or losing part, but the table manners must be addressed by DH. Girls that age are learning to be young ladies. He is doing her a disservice by not addressing it. Obviously, she doesn't have a role model to imitate - it would awesome if you could be that woman for her. But it's not your responsibility and I hope DH doesn't have it in his head that it is. He needs to step up to the plate (literally).
my mom said the exact same
my mom said the exact same thing, abotu being a young lady. when she last came to visit us we had SD on two occasions during her visit. my mom was mortified and made a comment about it.
i cant for the life of me understand why her mother isnt appalled at the lack of table manners. but i also do not know if they sit down to meals togethr or if tehy eat in front of the TV. still, table or couch one can use a fork.
My husband's pre-teens are
My husband's pre-teens are disgusting. He doesn't even seem to notice their terrible table manners. His parents even said something about it to me the last time I talked to them. I guess they knew DH and BM were inept at teaching this and thought maybe I was a new glimmer of hope? lol.
She's 13. Who cares if she
She's 13. Who cares if she thinks she's "winning"? If you're happier, at peace, and less stressed out, then the time you DO have with your fiance alone is improved .. and that's what matters.
When you're stressed and constantly "battling" her, it will spill into your relationship with your DH. Refusing to engage her may seem like a "win" for her, but when she starts to realize how strong your relationship is and that you're not actually going anywhere long-term, she'll see how her petty games got her no where.
If you want to show your face, come to every 4th or 5th meal. Let her know you still live there and still enjoy time with your fiance, and that on some level you're still willing to accept her. But ignore her behaviors, don't acknowledge her attitude, and make it quick. Only if that's possible .. don't backslide if you think it sets you back or will overly stress you out.
fiance just emailed me. told
fiance just emailed me. told me he is picking up Panera for dinner and wants me to eat with him and SD tonight.
maybe ill suck it up tonight and eat with them. and she usually gets grilled cheese, a food meant to be eaten with one's hands. (although she wastes most of it becuase she refuses to eat the crust!). she might get soup tho, her slurping is most symphonic... :O
well, i ate with them last
well, i ate with them last night.
she mercifully didnt get soup. but she cant even eat a grilled cheese normally. eats half (except for the crust) then the other half she pulls apart and scrapes the cheese out with either her teeth or fingers.
after dinner she did homework and then she didnt speak a word to either of us and played on her ipad. for 2 hours. you could cut the air with a knife.
i just dont understand how things deteriorated. the first 7-8 months with her around was not that bad, we had some laughs, took her places, she'd have friends over. now its crap and its all because her parents are fighting over custody. but why is that my fault?
im seriously considering asking him to move out/breaking off the engagement if he gets joint custody. the whole point in going for joint custody was to straighten her out and give her the structure she needs and get her to focus on her studies, etc. but i just dont see fiance doing that even tho he was all on board with it at the time he filed.
my heart is very heavy this morning.
he says he is on my side and
he says he is on my side and i think with some things he is (tells her she needs to respect me, im not going anywhere, etc.) but he refuses to discipline and doesnt beleive in firm rules (despite telling me he was on board with the few simple rules we tried to implement). he hates conflict; he just wants to have "good visits" with SD. they fight nonstop over text on the days she isnt with us becuase she refuses to call or text him and BM does absoltuely nothing to encourage communication.
with regard to last night i got the whole "be the better person".
Calypso, you sound like you
Calypso, you sound like you are in the place I was at a couple of years ago so I totally get where you are coming from. My DW was (and still does) live in this fantasy world where her SS is happy all the time and MUSt be treated like royalty when he is with us because Good Lord forbid that her precious munchkin be upset for a nano-second.
I keep telling her, over and over again, that SS is stunted, both socially, intellectually and emotionally. When you don't provide structure, discipline nor do you expect a child to make an effort to do anything ON HIS OWN, the child grows up more and more dependent. I don't know if I mentioned it to you or someone else here, but my DW finallt started coming around when SS was 10 years old and ran away in stark terror from the neighbor's kid who was 5. Imagine a 10 year-old running away from a 5 year old! I laughed and DW was embarrassed and rightfully so.
On that day, the light bulb went off in DW's head. DW saw for herself how horribly socially-inept SS truly was...but no amount of me telling her would make her see. Do you see what I am getting at? She had to be made to see for herself. It took four years into the relationship for DW to finally get wise but she still "reverts".
I think what works for me, (and hopefully might work for you?) is to choose yor battles. For me it was simple; table manners and education. SS stil exhibits horrible table manners and eating habits (see my last blog entry) but he is better than when I first met him. Education is an uphill battle but I told my DW that I will burn the house down before I let SS fail out of high school. Every other annoying thing that SS does; interrupting conversations, talking while trying to watch a movie, bedtime stalling, etc. I just keep my pie-hole shut. I don't say a word. It annoys me, but when I feel my blood is boiling, I just divert my attention elsewhere. There's always something around the house that needs doing.
I don't love my SS, but I don't resent him either. I tolerate him for the sake of who he is; the son of my wife and the half-brother of my two bios. Maybe one day I will come to love him but for now, I am content with my feelings the way they are now. Plus at the end of the day, DW and I want the same thing for all our children.
i think what's frustrating is
i think what's frustrating is he sees that she is immature and behind for her age (all typical of children of divorce, based on what ive read). but when i try to give him the tools to help he doesnt want to put in the effort. he is truly convinced (and has verbalized this to me) that she will "grow out of these behaviors".
i know someday he will be heartbroken over his mistakes... its so awful to see it coming in the crystal ball and not be able to do anythign or make him see.
>its so awful to see it
>its so awful to see it coming in the crystal ball and not be able to do anythign or make him see.<
Cassandra's Curse.
I know this drill all too well.
I've gathered some allies to help me alleviate this. Whenever DW won't listen to me, accuses me of exagerating, or says "SS will grow out of it". I end up talking to SS's teachers, the doctor or DWs parents about my concerns. They in turn "relay" those concerns to DW.
Your question here is not how
Your question here is not how to save the kid but how to save your relationship with the girls father. A guy who has demonstrated that he's worthless in raising kids. A teenager can be taught how to properly eat in a few hours and a little reinforcing over the course of a week but this guy doesn't want to go to the trouble. This is the guy you're choosing to father your children? Have I said enough?
we aren't having children.
we aren't having children.
I don't think its imporatant
I don't think its imporatant so much wether she feels shes winning or losing, its about implementing discipline. If she cant conduct herself respectfully with you then you have to WIN their respect. Not that you should be having to discipline them any way THAT SHOULD BE THEIR FATHER. You wouldn't expect that from your own flesh and blood so why should you have to take it from someone who isn't. Besides you should have some times when you can have a romantic meal ALONE with your man. To get respect you have to engender respect.