OT: Asking opinion as a BM - kinda long
My ex-H and I don’t have a CO in place. We never felt the need to have a judge tell us what we can and can’t do in regards to our daughter. We sat down, came up with an agreement, agreed on CS, custody, visitation, etc., had it written up and notarized. I have never asked for more child support, although he has had several promotions in the 7 years we have been split up . My pay has decreased, which is not his problem.
He recently asked for, and received, a demotion at work, which, he says, included a pretty significant pay cut. Now, even with the demotion, he is still at a higher rank and, I’m sure, pay grade than he was when we originally decided on the support amount. Almost immediately he asked me to lower CS. I told him while it was something that I am certainly willing to discuss with him, I can’t at this time because DD still goes to daycare before and after school (which is still a pretty penny) and during the summer she is in all day daycare, so the expenses really haven’t changed much once you take school meals, supplies into consideration. Her meals were provided at the daycare. I told him once that was done we could sit down and negotiate again, no problem.
A couple years ago DH was going to have to relocate as he is military. He chose, instead, to take a deployment with a promise to be stationed at another base within driving distance of our home. At the time we were going to move, when I mentioned it to ex-H, he said the only way he would let me move out of state with DD was if I would drop CS. It is in our agreement that I cannot move out of state with DD without ex-H’s consent. At the time I was going to do agree to his demand as I didn’t see DH and I living 7 hours apart as being helpful to our relationship. I figured I could figure out how to support DD without the CS. I did, however, think it was pretty crappy of ex-H to not be concerned with how DD was going to be cared for since I would be moving and wouldn’t have a job for Lord knows how long. While DH would have gladly assisted, we do keep separate finances and he couldn’t have afforded both of our bills, plus supporting me and DD.
FF to now…DH is preparing to retire. The only job opportunity he has come across is located 2 hours away. That would be too much of a commute, so we are considering relocating if DH can’t find a job closer to where we currently live. We are looking at cutting that in half, and being about an hour away from here, and DH having an hour commute. My company has a branch in that town so, hopefully, I would just be able to transfer to that facility. I have not mentioned this to ex-H yet as I don’t want to have that argument before I know for certain that it is going to happen. I don’t think it will be right for him to demand dropping CS again, since we will easily be within driving distance, adding only about 30-45 minutes to his weekend drive. I was thinking of calculating the additional miles he would be driving and taking a modest calculation of 10 mpg for his vehicle, multiplied by a high average current cost of gas and deducting that amount from his CS. I’m sure CS will come up with him because that is all he seems to be concerned about. His reason for wanting to drop it last time was because he wouldn’t be able to see DD and he didn’t feel like he had to pay CS for a child he wasn’t going to see. That argument wouldn’t hold water this time, although I think it’s ridiculous to begin with. But anyway…whatever.
Do you think that would be fair of me to bring that offer to the table when I talk to him about the move? I feel bad that he would be put out by my choice to move and I want it to be as amicable as it can be.
Coming from the standpoint of
Coming from the standpoint of a BM, if I were you, I'd take your exH's current income, your income, put it in your state CS's calculator and see what you come up with. That will at least give you a starting point from which to negotiate.
I think the move sounds reasonable, provided everything works out for you. I'd approach exH with what CS could be if you went to court, and if necessary add in deducting cost of gas to sweeten the pot.
Don't feel bad for asking for your exH to help provide for his child.
"I'd take your exH's current
"I'd take your exH's current income, your income, put it in your state CS's calculator and see what you come up with. That will at least give you a starting point from which to negotiate."
I agree with this. If your exH wants to be crappy and try to strong arm you, tell him you'll just take it to court and let a judge decide. You can tell the judge that you don't want any changes to the visitation agreement that has worked so well for 7 years, but you do want child support to be calculated by state guidelines.
From the way I see it .. you have everything in your favor here. It sucks to have to play hardball, but if that's what your ex wants to do, then you better suit up.
Is this shorter move out of state as well?
Yes, it would be out of state
Yes, it would be out of state as well. I agree, and was thinking that if push came to shove I would just mention taking it to court. Honestly, based on the calculator we used initially, I have always been getting less than what would have been court ordered in the first place, so I really can't imagine him wanting to let it go that route. I guess my fear was always that we'd go in front of a judge and the judge would say "hell no, you can't move your kid out of state". I guess now that it really wouldn't change any type of visitation, as he's only ever exercised the EOWE portion, and has gotten her one day a week maybe three times total, not to mention no extended visits during the summer.
Just please don't make the
Just please don't make the mistake that so many of our DH's do .. don't give in and play nice just so you don't rock the boat! You can approach this very professionally without confrontation, but don't let him bully you into something you don't want.
Oh, I would fully expect his
Oh, I would fully expect his current income to be the starting point, not his previous, as that is not what he is making.
I think we've refocused the
I think we've refocused the conversation
CS was determined 7 years ago based on incomes THEN. It has never been recalculated.
She doesn't want to go through courts for child support, but is possibly holding that in her back pocket as an alternative if the exH refuses to "let" her move. She expects HIM to bring up the CS issue and wants to be prepared for that conversation.
That's my impression anyway
I get what you mean. I would
I get what you mean. I would be pissed to be on the receiving end of that .. but realistically, she's not moving THAT far away. I guess that's why it's not such a big deal to me .. and she's expecting him to be kind of an ass about the whole thing.
Our BM up and moved further than that and there wasn't a damn thing we could do about it; courts or not. Now we're stuck dealing with the distance and making our visitation work.
I think she's coming to the
I think she's coming to the table with a fair offer. She's going to extend his time and reduce his child support so that he is not overly burdened by her move.
What legit reason does he have to disagree? And so what if he does? She can still move. What's he going to do? Drag her into court anyway?
I think you're more focused on what she's planning to do if he doesn't agree versus the approach she's taking on the front end. She can be nice all she wants, and if he disagrees, what is she supposed to do? I think it's smart to be prepared and have a back up plan.
Yes, the child would be out
Yes, the child would be out of state, but in reality, only 1 hour driving time from his house. I currently live 1/2 hour driving time from his house and am in the same state. The state I would be moving to is actually 2 states away, and only 1/2 hour driving time further. There are many people who live that far away from each other anyway. In reality, why would he even argue about it except to be an asshole? I think offering $ in form of a deduction in CS is quite fair.
You're right, that is my
You're right, that is my intention.
But Ladyface, I think you
But Ladyface, I think you missed this point in the OP:
>>even with the demotion, he is still at a higher rank and, I’m sure, pay grade than he was when we originally decided on the support amount.<<
The exH willingly signed over
The exH willingly signed over what sounds like primary custody to the mom, and has never fought for reasons to change it. I don't know any judge that would prevent a mother from moving. She is remarried and her husband needs to move for work to support his household.
I would understand if it were the first scenario and she were planning to move 7 hours away. But an additional 30 minutes? AND she's willing to help him out financially by deducting money to compensate by deducting money from CS?
Seems like a no brainer to me. I can't imagine any attorney he would hire would suggest taking this to court in the first place .. I can almost guarantee he'd be advised to settle and negotiate with the mom .. which is all she wants in the first place.
"The exH willingly signed
"The exH willingly signed over what sounds like primary custody to the mom, and has never fought for reasons to change it. I don't know any judge that would prevent a mother from moving. She is remarried and her husband needs to move for work to support his household."
Again, it could be totally different because of location but that reason would never fly with a judge here. Primary custody here means the child lives with the one parent the majority of the time and the other parent exercises visitation (parenting time). It doesn't give the primary parent the right to do whatever she or he wants regarding the child without the input of the other parent (again, that's how it is HERE. Unless parental rights have been revoked). Just the same as it is with a parent not being able to lower their CS obligations just because they took a lower paying job WILINGLY, it wouldn't fly that a parent can move their child away and the reasoning is because the mom remarried and her DH got a job elsewhere. That's like saying we won't accommodate a parent who willing took a paycut, but we WILL accommodate a parent who willingly remarried and wants to move away.
All I'm saying is it's not
All I'm saying is it's not unreasonable to move 30 minutes away. People seem to think this is like a cross-country relocation and skids will never see dad again. If it were a significant difference, then yeah, I could see all the up-in-arms responses.
Realistically .. she can move. He can drag her into court and file for more custody or whatever he wants. Judge will see the kid is already enrolled in school with the parent who has primary custody since the very beginning (which dad agreed to). Judge will see that mom tried to negotiate by offering more time and money to accomodate dad. What is the judge going to do? Take away custody from mom because she moved 30 minutes away? Judges here would LAUGH at fathers who tried that kind of thing in court.
I'm not saying it's right or even fair. I'm just saying it is what it is.
I agree, which is why I asked
I agree, which is why I asked him the last time for his permission, and was willing to meet his terms. Had we not been able to come to an agreement, I would have stayed put and dealt with having a long-distance marriage. I'm not anticipating the same terms this time, because really, we're only talking an additional half hour. In all honesty, I would be willing to meet him where I do now if it really became an issue. I'm not out to screw him or make his life miserable, but ideally I would like to be able to live with my husband. The other option would be for us to stay where we are, DH not find a job and us lose our house because we can't afford it.
I think you should not
I think you should not mention CS at all. If he tries bringing it up you can politely inform him that you've never seen a need to request it be raised in all these years, though you could have, because of the fact that the two of you have been able to get along and work together so well for your DD's best interests.
If he then refuses to let you move without dropping CS, get it in writing if you can. (This is why email communication comes in handy--always a record of who said what) Then, file in court for the judge to allow you to move because he is being uncooperative and ALSO file for modification of CS to get more money.
He's being an ass.
When you thought about moving
When you thought about moving and not having a job for who knows how long, it didn't seem to bother you that you would not be contributing financially to your daughter...just saying...
Oh, it did bother me
Oh, it did bother me tremendously. I guess I should have been more specific with "job". I meant a full-time, comparable to what I am working/earning, job. I would have taken multiple temporary part-time jobs if necessary in the meantime. However, even those can be difficult to find at times. I'm NOT one of these BMs that feel like I don't have to work and let my ex pay for the kid.
So you want to move your
So you want to move your child further away from Dad because of your spouse, not thinking about how that will affect your child or your ex, but will play hardball to get what you want...nice...typical.
Well, the last time this was
Well, the last time this was a possibility, the only thing my ex was concerned about was $$, not about not seeing his kid, because he was more than willing to let her go with me IF I dropped CS. I really don't see a problem with this time, adding a half hour onto each of our travel time for p/u and drop offs PLUS basically reimbursing him for his additional travel time. It isn't going to affect any time DD or ex see each other, as he can't be bothered besides the EOWE as it is, even though our agreement allows for additional time, which he chooses not to take.
I agree with Kathc - this is
I agree with Kathc - this is why you always have the state help collect your CS - I know most couples don't want the judge involved in your business but this is the very reason why you would want a CS agreement written in stone - it always amazes me when a couple breaks up and then a woman says well I know he has had several raises since this all started but I never made him increase his support - the support is for the children not for you - and even if you can manage it without the increases - you could put the money away for college or for a rainy day - if he brings up to you about dropping CS because you moved an hour away then you tell him we need to go to court so that the courts can decide what you need to pay - and just because he asked for the demotion does not let him off the hook of paying what is owed to your child together.
And quite frankly no court in this country is going to say that a father has to stop paying CS because you moved out of state - it is not about the two of you but about support for the child - we live 800 miles from our SS and only got to see him 3 times a year but we still paid - of course we wanted to pay and would never have asked for it to stop because we were so far apart but CS crosses state lines!!
Very valid points. Thank you
Very valid points. Thank you for your input, it is appreciated!
do I get to even have a say??
do I get to even have a say?? LOL I'm a BM but don't deal with an ex, but thought this might be a consideration just based on knowledge I've gathered over the last few years) and obviously it's likely different in US than Canada but, threatening your ex with court MAY backfire if he challenges your move (I only suggest this because here, where I live, a spouse can not relocate with the kids unless they get the OK of the other parent (unless the other parent's rights have been totally revoked) and you could actually be prevented from moving if it's not closer to your ex.
sounds like for the most part you guys have had a very amicable arrangement and ideally it would always stay amicable. Coming from someone who had an amicable arrangement with his ex too, it does eventually fall apart when circumstances change and it might end up in a messy court battle anyway.
The suggestion of going to your ex and saying "Hey, things are going well, we're working with eachother to stay as fair as possible but I'd like to re-visit the CS amount as I'm finding it hard to meet DD's care requirements can we figure something out more closely based to what the tables say you should be paying? I in return will be flexible with things like mileage for travelling costs you incur to exercise your visiting or something along those lines...
Thank you so much! Of course
Thank you so much! Of course you have a say...any and all opinions are welcome!