You are here

Need a reality check - is it unreasonable to want to know where your kids are staying when out of town?

SMof2Girls's picture

BM is traveling to MD with the girls on Friday and keeping the girls from DH until Sunday evening. Per the custody agreement, she is required to provide all travel information one week prior to the trip.

She's already violated based on the flight and failure to provide that info timely .. but she has completely ignored DH's request to know where they will be staying.

We assume they will be staying at BM's boyfriend's house .. but we have no clue.

I want to make sure he's not being unreasonable here .. she has never told him where they will be staying at all .. DH has requested she provide the address and phone number where they will be for the 2 nights with her. This is comparable to DH providing the name, address, and phone number of every hotel we've stayed in with the skids.

Is this a reasonable request? And if they were your kids, what would you do if she refused to even reply to the question?

SMof2Girls's picture

The skids currently live in TX with BM while she is in school with the military. They have joint legal/physical custody. He gets them for the week of Spring Break.

She originally said she would not let him have them prior to Sunday at 6pm because Spring Break doesn't "technically" start until Monday. DH's lawyer sent a letter explaining that absent a specific clause, our state interprets Spring Break to begin at the end of the school day on Friday.

She has since confirmed she is flying on Friday and withholding skids until Sunday evening (after multiple requests, she finally provided this info 4 days late).

She has refused to provide any further information about where they will be staying.

So .. I understand that the skids probably aren't in any danger and they are most likely staying with her boyfriend .. it's the fact that she violates this custody agreement at will. If the agreement is unreasonable, then that's an issue to be taken up in court. Otherwise, she should be held accountable for violating it.

DH has requested the info twice in 24 hours, she has not provided it. We will stop asking for it. She can explain to the judge why she thought she didn't need to follow the agreement.

But to answer your question .. no, he can't refuse to let them leave. He just has to wait for her to decide to drop them off.

SMof2Girls's picture

Any contact directly with the base or her command she views as harassment. DH's lawyer has basically said that as long as she claims to feel harassed, it can hurt him in their upcoming case.

So no, he won't be contacting anyone at Fort Sam Houston directly.

HarleyQuinn's picture

if its in the agreement and your DH ahs being so then so should she. He needs to keep email/texts of her refusal for enxt time you go to court. Thats is not on.
However my DH does not have a custodial agreement and when skids are with BM he asks no questions and when skids are with us she asks no questions. When we first took skids to my parents 3hr drive away she wanted address and phone number etc, i told her straight hell no are you having any information EVER, you cna know the county name thats it.
As far as im concerned as long as the other parent is a fit parent then why does the other one need to know every last detail?Obvioucly if there are concerns for their safety/well being then that is completly different!

SMof2Girls's picture

I agree with you .. in most cases, DH doesn't NEED to know the info. I think at this point, it's just a matter of building a strong case showing she disregards the custody agreement at will. Not to mention her blantant lies and smug behavior, thinking she can do whatever she wants.

Idk .. it's just all so frustrating Beee

PeanutandSons's picture

I think that because your dh is non custodial she probably sees it as an intrusion onto her private life. If she was away for the weekend in Texas your dh would be none the wiser.

I know logically it should be the same for both parents.....but for some reason I feel like she doesn't really have to tell your dh where she is on her time. She has the girls on her time and dh has them on your time. Shed be nice to just offer the information...esp since she felt the need to get it from you guys when you had the girls last.

But why does he feel the need to know? Just on principle? Its not like he knows exactly where the girls are every day when they are in TX, so why does he want to know just because they are in your state?

SMof2Girls's picture

The custody agreement very clearly states that each parent is to communicate 1 week prior to any travel when taking the kids away from their home overnight.

And technically, by our state court's interpretation of Spring Break, she is on DH's time.

PeanutandSons's picture

OK, I see you posted while I was typing and its in the custody agreement and she's violating it.

Just document that dh made every good faith effort to get the information he was entitled to and bm refused. Document what time she finally brings the girls.

PeanutandSons's picture

OK, I see you posted while I was typing and its in the custody agreement and she's violating it.

Just document that dh made every good faith effort to get the information he was entitled to and bm refused. Document what time she finally brings the girls.

PeanutandSons's picture

OK, I see you posted while I was typing and its in the custody agreement and she's violating it.

Just document that dh made every good faith effort to get the information he was entitled to and bm refused. Document what time she finally brings the girls.

PeanutandSons's picture

OK, I see you posted while I was typing and its in the custody agreement and she's violating it.

Just document that dh made every good faith effort to get the information he was entitled to and bm refused. Document what time she finally brings the girls.

PeanutandSons's picture

OK, I see you posted while I was typing and its in the custody agreement and she's violating it.

Just document that dh made every good faith effort to get the information he was entitled to and bm refused. Document what time she finally brings the girls.

silentnites's picture

I don't think it is an unreasonable request for him to know where the girls will be staying. BM should provide the information asap. It's not like he plans on showing up at the front door. He wants to know where his daughters are.

If anything were to happen to the girls mother, he would need to know where to pick up his girls, correct? It seems like common courtesy to me.

B22S22's picture

I agree that it's common courtesy to let the other parent know.

From my own experience: My BIL and his wife were divorced, their daughter resided with ex-wife. They lived in different cities.

BIL gets a call one morning that his (ex)wife passed away. BIL had no idea where daughter was (she was about 7 at the time), who she was with, etc. And living in a different city, he was not familiar with the area, any of ex-wife's friends, etc.

It took him four days to find her. Come to find out, his daughter was staying with a friend for a long weekend, and the parents had no idea whatsoever that something had happened to BIL's ex-wife. It was a freak occurrence that when ex-wife didn't come get daughter at the agreed upon time they eventually drove to ex-wife's house. My BIL had been sitting in a car outside the house and was lucky enough to be there when the people showed up with the daughter.

Think about it: where would you even BEGIN to look??

I know this is a little different, there's no need to report in to the other parent what goes on during YOUR time. But the scenario sucks, doesn't it? I couldn't even begin to understand the panic he probably felt.

silentnites's picture

That is exactly what happened in my family. We never know, life is a gift. My niece's ex husband was killed in a car accident in 2004. It was during his weekend, and the kids were not with him. They were not at his home with a sitter, and they were not with his family....Nobody knew where they were. It took the police to get involved, and it turned out the girls were at a friend of the ex's house. All of that was fine, but my niece had no idea. A tragedy for sure, but it was compounded by the fact she didn't know where her kids were.

You never know.. tricky when there are two different house holds involved.

herewegoagain's picture

I'd be on her doorstep DEMANDING the information.

PS - BM NEVER gave DH the information either...however, she was sure to harass us ALL THE TIME about where we went and didn't go with loser...although of course, we took her to nice places and she took her to nasty places...go figure.

SMof2Girls's picture

This is interesting .. BM isn't local, so we can't go there physically .. but DH does know her flight number and arrival time.

He's mentioned in passing that if he doesn't get the information, he will meet her at the airport and request the information in person. Her BF will be there to pick her up, no doubt, and he actually seems like a reasonable guy. I'm sure if BM won't provide it, he will. And BM will have some furious kids on her hands when they realize they can't go home with Daddy.

I just think that approach may be pushing it a little

SMof2Girls's picture

I agree on the limited sharing. DH would never ask for (or provide in the reverse situation) a hotel room number.

I think DH would even be more comfortable if he had a relative idea of where BM's boyfriend lives. The only thing he knows about this guy is that he works for the military as a civilian contractor (not enlisted personnel) and his first name.

If something were to happen, DH would have no way of tracking him down, or the skids. DH would not call him, stop by, or anything intrusive .. at the end of the day, he trusts that BM would not put the skids in danger .. but knowing where his kids are (or being able to reasonably figure it out on his own) provides a peace of mind in the off chance something did happen.

Pilgrim Soul's picture

I think common sense is a beautiful thing. As a BM, i do want to know that wherever they are, my kids are with their dad, for example, not with someone else. Case in point: when my ex takes them out of town, i usually do not have or want the address where they are staying. With his friends in another city - ok. In a hotel on vacation - fine, all together. I do not think i knew the name of the hotel last summer, only the flight number and the destination. But if they go visit his dad at his house and end up spending the night at the SM's adult daughter's house - she is essentially their step-sister, but they first met when she was a mother herself - wait a second...

My boys, then 11 and 13, would spend the night at her house a few times, without telling me. Their dad was back at his house. Later i find out that she is divorcing her husband due to domestic abuse! Whoa nelly! There is no way i want my kids to sleep at her place. Why did my ex let them go? They barely knew the woman or her kids at the time. That is not OK with me. They should stay with their dad. End of story. Wherever he is.

SMof2Girls's picture

I understand both sides. I think the difference in my particular case is that BM is traveling by plane over 1600 miles away from their home. DH will have no idea where they are, or how to find/contact them if something were to happen to BM.

The other factor that's pretty key in my situation is that this is consistent violation of the custody order. Regardless of how BM or DH feel about privacy or the level of information the other parent needs, the CO requires each parent to provide the info 1 week prior when the kids will be away from their home overnight.

I don't think that clause is intended to chastise a parent for letting their child sleepover at a neighbor-friend's house, or stay the night with a babysitter. And DH would never pursue any type of charge/violation if that were the case. Even if he did, I doubt a judge would take it seriously.

Keep in mind too that every single time DH has taken the skids out of town, BM has adamently DEMANDED hotel information .. even when we're in HER hometown visiting the skids and staying at a hotel less than 5 miles away from her house. She actually threatened to deny DH's visitation if he didn't provide this info before (not that he ever refused - her threat was preemptive).

SMof2Girls's picture

Thank you!

We are definitely past the point of continuing to ask for the information. It took 4 emails just get a flight number and time! DH requested the location of where they'd be staying yesterday morning. She hasn't replied. He only sent that last email so that BM couldn't claim she didn't know DH wanted the information.

DH's attorney is on board to file the motion to show cause for the violations. This most recent one just adds to the list. We'll be filing for the custody modification as well .. his lawyer has basically said that all we need to do is demonstrate we're asking for the information and she's denying it.

I'm just SOOOO sick of it .. I concede that up to this point there has been no real consequence to her. Partially because DH's lawyer is planning to file all of these violations at once .. she says our email trains clearly demonstrate we've exhausted every means to resolve these issues directly with BM and she does not cooperate. By waiting to file all at once instead of each one as they come, it shows that DH has even considered letting them go .. but when they start to pile up, it becomes an issue to be brought before the court. And also, the judges in our state prefer to deal with all the issues at once, not a new violation/comtempt charge every month. I just hope that the lawyer is right .. we're really relying on her to help us steer the way ..

The whole process is just exhausting Sad

SMof2Girls's picture

Update:

BM has confirmed her and the skids will be staying at her boyfriend's house .. and she refuses to provide an address, generic location, or phone number.

Apparently the part of the CO that says "all travel and contact information" does not include accomodations.

We're done .. no more emails about this at all .. she can eat her words in court.

christinen's picture

I don't blame your DH for wanting to know where his kids are staying at all, and I don't see why BM has such an issue with giving him the info. What if something happened (like a plane crash or a hotel burning down) and he heard about it on the news and didn't know if the kids were involved because he didn't know which flight they were on or what hotel they were staying in. Just thinking worse case scenarios. My mom travels a lot and she always makes sure to give me her travel info just in case of an emergency like that, and I do the same when I am traveling (give the info to my mother or to DH, depending on who I am traveling with).

It's not like he's asking for a play by play of their entire vacation. He just wants to know where his kids are staying.

SMof2Girls's picture

I agree. And I would even feel differently if DH had EVER given her a hard time about his travel arrangements. He gives her everything she asks for, usually before she even has a chance to ask for it. It seriously just shouldn't be that big of a deal!