I am so glad to have found this support forum. I have so many questions and just need some advice. I find that there are not many women in my situation and that are willing or able to help me through this. I thought that there I might find the support that I am looking for. Please note that I am “the other woman”. Please do not flame or attack me in anyway. I am looking only for support and advice and to turn my life around – whatever that may mean.I have also posted this in several forums because I want advice from different audiences.

My story started in June. I am a nurse and my boyfriend, Ken, is a paramedic. When Ken used to come into the ER, he would joke around with me. After a particularly stressful EMS call, he told me flippantly that he was going to take me to Hawaii to get away from this place. I laughed and went about my business. This went on for the next couple of weeks when I would sporadically see him. He was actually from a town about 1.5 hours away and was just moonlighting at this job so I only saw him once in a great while. I knew nothing about him except that he appeared older than me and was not really the type of guy that I would date. He is a bit on the “cuddly side”  and not really the most attractive looking man you would ever meet. Anyway – at the end of June, he mentioned again the Hawaii bit. Instead of just laughing it off – I took a chance and said that he might better take me to dinner first and gave him my number. Well, that afternoon while still at work he called me and asked me to dinner. From that point on, we began to talk on the phone and email each other on a regular basis. I found out that he was indeed older than me. I am 34 and he is 47. He said that he was separated from his wife and that they had been separated for about 6 months. He said that he had 3 teenage children and due to financial reasons as well as his desire to stay close to his children that he was staying in the basement of his home for the time being. He stated that he worked the evening shift and his ex, Karen, worked the day shift and this way they never really saw each other. He said that the reason that he and his wife had gotten separated is that he was no longer in love with her. He said that she was just not a happy person anymore. He stated that they have tried therapy, they had talked to the pastor of their church on numerous occasions, and over and over she had promised to make changes but they were just not forthcoming. I accepted this.

[Just some background on me - I too am separated. I was married for 10 years and about 1.5 years ago, my husband told me that he had been living a gay lifestyle for 2 years and that he wanted to come out with that lifestyle. He is a wonderful man and father. I was very upset about the affairs and lying but I did grant him the separations because I felt that there was nothing that I could really do to “fix” what was broken. Together we have 3 children, ages 10, 9, and 7. (My separation will become a divorce in March of this year since it was non-contested and there is a 1 year waiting period in NY.) Anyway – I moved out and have primary custody of the 3 children. My ex and I have a great relationship and have never really fought about anything in the separation. We agreed on custody, child support, and everything else without lawyers. ]

Well - What I did not know and found out about a month later, was that there was no separation agreement in place and that I knew about the separation before his ex-wife did! Basically yes, there were problems in the marriage, but as far as she knew, this was like all the other times when they had problems. They worked it out and moved on. If you ask Ken about this, he will say that she knew that they were getting separated. Anyway – so when I started this relationship with Ken, I did it on the knowledge that he was NO LONGER with his wife. I justified this because I was also separated, though not legally from my husband. Since I have never done this before (the whole separation/divorce thing) and am a bit naïve about the whole process since the separation between Brad and I went so nice, I just assumed that this was how people did it. I thought Karen was just upset about the separation and in denial or something.

Anyway – the first couple of weeks for us were rocky. I could not decide if I really wanted to be with him. After all, I was young and attractive and he was well….not. (hehe) I decided after a couple weeks and after having him tell me what a devout Christian man he was and how much he loved his kids, and his unending concern and care for me that I would continue the relationship. He seemed so different from the other men I had dated that were only concerned about themselves and so selfish. Maybe this was the one? So – I decided that I would start dating him on a regular basis.

Ken lived about 1.5 hours away at the time, so we talked on the phone several times a day (in fact, I even added him to my cell phone plan and gave him a cell phone so that we could talk all the time and not have to worry about the cost!), we emailed each other, and about 2-3 times a week he would come to my town and stay over or have a date or whatever. This went on for about a month and a half and then I decided that I wanted a change. I wanted to get out of the town that I had lived in all my life and I wanted to see Ken more often. I had become very attached to him and was falling in love. So, I picked up my 3 kids and moved them away from their father, their school, extended family, and friends, resources, job, etc. I started a new job, moved into a new townhouse (in which Ken moved to as well and signed the lease), started the kids into a new school, and began to learn the area. This was at the beginning of August. By now, his ex, Karen, knew that he was seeing me and his kids knew as well. They are 19 (boy), 16 (boy), and 13 (girl). She sent me an email and told me some nasty things and then I did not hear much else. Life seemed ok and I hoped that one day, his kids would want to meet me and we could begin to integrate our lives. He told me that he was working on a legal separation agreement with his wife and I gave him a December 31st deadline. We moved forward, life was good. Every Saturday night was date night, we spent a weekend at Niagara Falls, and his family and kids were working through this adjustment process. Or so I thought. The only thing was, his kids still wanted NOTHING to do with me. I have a My Space account and his kids do as well. I tried to be “friends” with them and his 16 year old son told me with no reservation to get lost and that I would never be a part of their family and that he did not know what he dad was telling me, but that he was coming back home. This seemed odd, but when I talked to Ken more about it, he just said that Kyle was upset and that he would come around in time, they all would.

At the end of October, Ken began to feel some severe resistance from his kids. They wanted dad HOME. They felt that they had no time to adjust to his separation and moving from the house and felt that they needed to be able to put some closure on that. He really missed his kids and really only saw them on Sundays. He did stop in once in a while to see them but the problem was that he worked M-F from 3-11pm so that made it really hard to see them because when he was off, they were in school and such. He decided that maybe he should move back home and stay in the basement for a couple weeks to try and work things out with his kids. I agreed that maybe that would not be such a terrible idea although I hated it from the start.

On his birthday, the end of October, we had a wonderful weekend (including lots of sex!). I would have to say that it was probably one of the best weekends that we have ever had. We even went out for breakfast that morning at a local diner before he went off to his old home to celebrate his birthday with the kids and to begin working on his relationship with them. Well – the next morning I needed to go shopping and I realized that he had my bank card. (I also forgot to mention that we were fully integrated as a family. We shared bank accounts, car insurance, cell phone accounts, etc.) He was not answering his cell phone and I knew that he was at his old home and that no one would be home. His kids would be at school and the ex would be at work. I went over to the house and knocked on the door. A young girl came to the door and I asked if I could please talk to Ken for a second. She said that he was sleeping and pointed to a door down the hall. I *KNEW* that was his old bedroom (i.e. His ex wife’s bedroom!). I went and opened the door and there he was, sleeping in his ex-wife’s bed! She was not there but that was not the point because I know that she *was* there. I got my bank card, gave him a nasty glare, and left without another word. I went shopping and I was seething. I came back home and there he was, lying on the couch at my (our!) house, sleeping. About the same time that I walked in, his ex called him on his cell phone. She asked him where he was because she had brought him home a pizza for lunch. He stated, “I am where I am supposed to be”. She called him a “Mother F*****” and hung up on him. Short story long – it came out that the entire time that we had been together (about 5 months); he was still not sure what he wanted. He was still with his wife and family at home telling them that he was just staying with me to figure out what he wanted. He told them our Saturday night date nights were the nights that he went out and played Poker with the guys, and when we went to Niagara Falls for the weekend, he had told his family that he was with his poker friends checking out the casinos. For the first couple of weeks of our relationship, he had told Karen that he was staying at the fire station in a town near where I lived (it was his second job and how I actually met him). Most of this I found out from his wife who I talked to for about 3 hours on the phone the afternoon that this all happened. He has also had sex with her twice in the first few weeks we were together and again the night before. I was devastated. He said that he had sex with her because he wanted to make sure that it was really over between him and Karen. He said that he realized how much he really wanted me and he just was trying (very badly may I add) to not hurt me, Karen, or his children. He said that he was ready to move forward – he knew what he wanted now. He even wrote me a 6 page letter on pink scented paper telling me how much he loved me, what I meant to him and what changes were going to be made to assure me that our relationship was real and on the right track. He states that he was not looking for anyone when we met. I just happened and he felt an immediate pull toward me. He states that he really believed and believes that even through all this; he was meant to be with me. Because I have a very addictive personality and I crave love, attention, and do not feel complete without a man in my life, I forgave him. I felt that he really now knew what he wanted and was ready to move forward. I had invested my life and my kids’ lives in this man and I wanted it to work. We moved forward.

From the next 2 months, things were good. We were able to work through many things. Communication lines were open and I could tell that he no longer wanted or desired to be with Karen and the problems that they had were evident in everyday life. There were problems, though. Of course. This biggest one being Karen, his ex wife. She has nothing nice to say about me or about Ken. She calls him all the time only to yell and scream at him and is constantly crying and carrying on to the 3 kids. She uses the kids as her sounding board and her best friend. She cries to them, tells them everything that happened between her and their dad, and has been unable to go on with her life. She tells everyone that will listen what a horrible thing that Ken did and what a horrible person I am to just let this go on. Why would I give a married man a cell phone? Why would I try and destroy the relationship between a dad and his kids? Why would I ……….? You fill in the blanks. I began to get really sick of the fact that all she did was ever call him up and cry and scream and make him feel horrible. The sad thing about it is, he let her. He just said, “I understand” or “I agree” or gave into her demands. He said that he was trying to take the high road and to kill her with kindness. He said that he did not want to stoop to her level. This has become a HUGE problem and I will comment more on this after I give the kids reactions to our relationship.

The oldest, Ryan, is a sophomore in college and he is going to be a pastor. He claims a very strong faith in God and all things pure. He wants nothing to do with my relationship with Ken. He believes that his dad acted very hateful and hurtful and that he should now do the right thing and leave me and go back to the family. He does however tell his dad that he loves him and will spend time with him with him when he is home on break or on the phone. He and Ken’s daughter Ali, want for Ken to spend 30 days away from me, in a neutral place to think about what he has done, what he is doing, and what he is going to do about the future. They want to punish him for what he did to their family. They do not care that he has a family here (which we are totally prepared to integrate his family into), that he has a town home with a lease, that there are 4 people here who will be hurt by this, etc.) I have talked to Ryan via email and he is very clear that there will not be forgiveness until Ken asks God for forgiveness and stops doing the sin. He does not call and talk to dad, but will spend time with dad when he is home. He only lived about an hour from where we live and where home is for him.

Ali, his 13 year old daughter is the real issue right now. Being 13 is hard enough in a 2 parent intact family. However, now with this in the mix, it is even worse. Ali and her mother have a very close relationship. She is very, very mad at her father for what he did to their mom and to her. I have been in contact with her as well via email. She is full of anger and sadness. She feels hurt and betrayed by her dad for leaving her. She is upset because she believes that he left her behind for a new family and is very jealous of my kids. She wants me to just stop seeing him so that he will come home. He has told her over and over again that he and his mother and never going to get back together, he will not be moving home again, and that he loves her very much. He calls her all the time. However, when he is supposed to be over there visiting her, she will go somewhere else or spend the time locked in her room to “hurt” him. He, likewise, will sit in front of the TV on the couch with his son, Kyle, and watch a football game, or in season, go and play hockey with Kyle on days that he goes to see the kids. I have given him so many ideas. I have researched divorce and teens and suggested so many things that he can do to make things better between him and his daughter but he has done nothing about any of my suggestions. I have printed articles, taken books for the library and marked the pages that are applicable to him. Nothing. She and Ryan are giving Ken an ultimatum. They say that unless he moves out of our home for 30 days and does not see me at all (so he can think), she will never accept anything. I do not believe that this will solve anything. I really believe that once the 30 days are up, she will just con him for more and that it will be harder again for him to come back to me because she will be used to him being there alone. I think that this request is selfish and unreasonable. He has a home here. I have always made her feel welcome and I want her to become part of or lives. I have made it clear over and over that I will not try and replace their mother. There are so many tears and emotions running wild. She refuses to have anything to do with me, stating that I am the cause of this, when really I am not. I know that she is just looking for someone to blame however, she is causing a huge problem between Ken and I. More about this in a minute.

Kyle, the middle child, is definitely dad’s boy. He is finally to the point (for about 3 weeks now) that he will come to our home and hang out. He baby sits my kids and we have a good relationship. He opens up to me a lot. I think much of this has to do with the fact that his girlfriend (who Ken and I introduced him to) lives right across the street. He is a great kid and knows and can see that his dad is much happier now. He says that he does not like it at home because of his mother. However, whenever he comes over, his mother starts to yell and scream at him and get on his case about how he no longer loves her and that he is just coming over to see me and that if he loves his father so much, “maybe you should just move in with him. After all, you do not love me anymore”. It is terrible! Poor Kyle is not doing well in school, he is in a really tough relationship with his girlfriend, and his mom is always on his case. When I take him home, I have to drop him off a block from home, same with picking him up. He gets the brunt of her anger about Ken. If he needs to borrow a vehicle to get home, he will not take my van because his mother will explode. He will tell Kyle in front of his dad or anyone else that it is fine to come over and then when the other person leaves, she will degrade him and make him feel bad for the choices that he is making. He has therefore been being disrespectful to her. Not calling and telling her where he is, saying he will be home for supper and than staying here, etc. Ken, Karen, and Kyle talked yesterday and basically Ken stuck up for Karen and said that Kyle needed to stop being disrespectful. Ken and I had both agreed in the beginning that Karen would reap what she sows. That soon enough, the kids would see what she was doing and that they would realize that their dad was taking the high road. However, now that it is here, again, he is trying to act like Kyle should respect her when she is pulling all this nonsense.

That brings us to the current situation. I really want to talk to Karen. I think that Karen and I need to sit down and talk. We need to get this stuff out in the open. I need to tell her how much Kyle is hurting and what she is doing to her kids. We even gave her a book for Christmas about parenting kids before, during and after a divorce thinking that it will help her. She has not picked up the book. She and Ken and definitely over. There is no doubt about that at all. It is the kids that we are trying to deal with now. I am a nurse and in February, I began the road to addiction. I became addicted to a prescription painkiller to help me deal with the pain of all the problems in life that I never had dealt with, just pushed under the rug. At the end of November, I was terminated from my nursing job for taking narcotics from the hospital. I became so desperate to keep the pain away and my body became physically dependant on them. I have been in recovery, voluntarily surrended my license for 90 days, and will continue in a non-punitive program for healthcare professionals for a total of 3 years to have a clean license again. I have been doing well in my program and I have stayed clean. Ken has been a huge support. However, Karen heard Kyle saying something to his girlfriend on the phone about me and Karen asked Ken about it. Ken felt that he could open up and tell her the whole story. That made me so mad! Especially since I asked him not to say anything. I felt so betrayed when I found out! Anyway – Karen thinks that I have it all. I am young, pretty, have a good income, etc. However, what she does not know is how screwed up I am mentally and physically. I would trade places with her in a second! I just want her to stop using the kids as a sounding board. I want her to grow up and get a therapist. I want her to encourage the kids to spend time with their father. I am willing to be patient in regards to their relationship to me and my children. However, I think to ask Ken to move out of his home and not speak to me for 30 days is selfish and awful! He is my best friend, my best support. He also helps me financially. My income is less than $1600 a month right now. With him leaving, I have to move. We are about ready to lose our residence, my car, and everything else I have. It is not fair for him to just leave like this. He says that he loves me and feels like he has no other choice. He says that unless he can make things right with his daughter, we have no chance. I do not think this will make things right. I cannot sit around and wait for him. I need to move forward and begin to heal if he leaves. Am I being selfish? Am I being unreasonable? I just want to talk to Karen and try to get her to understand what she is doing and the pain and heartache she is causing everyone, including herself. Ken does not want me to contact her. He says it will make things worse. Ken and Kyle agreed I could come to his hockey game last weekend. As we were driving into the rink, I pulled over to let Ken out. He had ankle surgery the week before and is on crutches. As he was getting out, he noticed that Karen was pulling in with Kyle. All the sudden, he went from Mr. Happy to someone that I did now know. He began panicking because Karen was there and so was I and now she was going to call him and start screaming at him and there would be a huge fight…….etc. You get the picture. Then he snapped at me when I asked if I should just go. He told me to “do whatever you want!” I was so hurt. This is what happens though. This is the pattern. He lets her walk all over him, scream at him, etc. They all do. She needs to stop. She is hurting her family.

In closing, I just want Ken. I want peace. I want to contact Karen, tell her all this, and encourage her to work with ken and I to make things ok for the kids. I want to Ken to try other things with Ali before just moving out and not speaking to me for 30 days. I just do not see it working. I need help! Has anyone ever gone through this? I need all the advice I can get. Ken and I spent the most romantic weekend together and I though things were going to be fine. I have no doubt he loves me, however, he did not think of these consequences when he cheated on his wife and now I am paying for his mistakes. Oh – there is still no official separation. Karen’s lawyer is supposed to be taking care of that. Yeah right.

HELP ME! Do I go along with this? Do I try and talk with Karen and Ali? Do I just walk away from the whole thing? I need advice! I am hurting so badly…..