I hate to say it, but the advice I have is maybe you should not bother with the gifts, lol. Maybe you should just make it a family thing, instead, you all sit down as a family and make something- together? He might understand it better that way. I think instead of getting mad at each other, and tossing jabs at each other, you may want to sit back for a momment, let him unwind and not retaliate.

My DH and I had some pretty heated arguements in the beginning of our relationship. He would get pretty darn selfish at times, and he also was still pretty wrapped up in his shell from his divorce, shellshock so to say, so he was extremely protective and defensive at times, so he could really put out those mouthy jabs at me whenever he felt pressed about something. Make me sooo mad, push my buttons, he was good... but most of all really hurt me because that way, he won't get hurt- first. If that makes sense? So rather than working things out 'rationally', we hashed it out at each other with those nasty words, jabs, you name it... just to 'get even' at each other. Both of us were still pretty sore from our last relationship.

Well, during one of those moments, he said something to me that really really hurt me, I don't even rememeber what it was, but it really went below the belt. Oh it was on! I thought. So, I took my promise ring that he gave me, the only thing that he gave me that meant so much to me, and threw it at him. Fine. I'm gone! Out the door I went. Stayed at my parents, was planning to move on. Three weeks later, he came calling. We said our sorries, etc etc. But he never gave me back the ring, at least not right away, because that really upset him, me throwing it at him. It was like throwing his respect away.

See, what I didn't know was that in order for him to even be able to afford this ring for me in the first place, was because he cashed out part of one of my SS's 'college' fund accounts just so he could purchase this ring, because he loved me that much and didn't have any other way to tell/show me. His x had taken so much from him, so this was his way of showing me he loved me. He couldn't afford me a diamond, so he got me a big ass saphire... which is his birthstone. The gest of it is that he gave me his heart, and I wear his heart in mine. (It has two small diamonds, which is my birthstone, on each side of it.)

I do have it today, wear it on my right hand and it actually means more to me than my wedding set... believe it or not.

I think if it were me in this situation, I'd back off giving so many gifts, keep it very simple, kiss him on the check for his gifts, and let him know how much he means to you. To me, it sounds kinda like you built up some expectations and things didn't happen the way you invisioned.

I guess the other thing you could do is give the watch to your ex...

In our family, it's his kids that get the most, because their mother makes more money than my husband does, plus she's collecting thousands in CS each month from two dads. One of my skids actually gets from her mother and two dads, not to mention three sets of grandparents, so she really rakes it in. The standard of living that they enjoy is so far above what we have, well, there's just no argument between us as to what is fair or unfair.

What we do is decide up front how much money we, as a couple, are going to spend on all of OUR kids combined, then we decide how to break that down between skids and kids. Then we stick to that as closely as possible, which isn't too hard because I end up doing almost all of the shopping. ;°) Let's say we come up with a Christmas budget of, say, $1000 total to spend on all kids combined. Well, we divvy that up between the five kids in such a way that they all get great gifts, but we do spend more on our two, being that they are only getting from us. He's on board with that 100%. I've also discovered the joys of shopping online and at outlets, and with some creativity, you can get the kids equal gifts without spending equal money.

Whether or not my husband and I get anything for each other is usually a matter of whether or not we can afford it. Usually, we just get each other small things for the kids to give us and to give each other. We hardly ever spend more than $50 total on each other at Christmas. For example, my most favorite passtime is taking a good book into the bathroom and spending an hour or so in a long, hot bubble bath totally undisturbed by husband or kids. So hubby will get me a couple of books that I've been wanting to read and the kids will go crazy at the dollar store picking out all sorts of bubble bath, bath salts, special soaps, etc. AND I LOVE IT!

Being that I don't work, whatever money I spend on him is his, anyway, which made me feel really guilty at first. But then one year he took me aside and told me that I earned every cent of the money I spent on him, and then some, because I have the tough job of taking care of him and the kids, plus all the crap I go through with his kids and their mom, which I don't get paid a cent for. That made me see that it isn't the gift you give on Christmas Day that matters, it's everything you do for each other every day of the year. So for us, presents to each other has never been all that important. We usually splurge a little on ourselves with our income tax refund to make up for it, though, and just delight in watching the kids at Christmas.

I know it is hard for my husband to feel like he can't give me and our kids as much as he gives his other kids via CS. Before he retired from the military, the amount he paid in CS for two kids was more than our entire family of four had to live on in a month. He went through years of feeling guilty and like a failure, mistakenly thinking that he wasn't providing adequately for us. That sometimes came out as anger towards us. Maybe your guy just feels guilty and ashamed that he can't be all things to all people or that he can't provide as well as YOU can.

Giving should be a gift in itself... you get the joy of selecting the gifts, giving the gifts and knowing that the gifts will be appreciated. Gift-giving should be about GIVING gifts, not about EXCHANGING gifts. See the difference? If you give just to get something back, well, it's not really giving, it's more like blackmail. (If you don't get me a nice gift for Christmas, then I'm not getting you a nice gift for your birthday. I gave you a fabulous anniversary present, so you'd better make Valentine's Day worth my while.) What fun is that?

On the other hand, if you feel like you are doing all the giving and being taken advantage of, well, that's another problem entirely and I don't think the problem is a financial one.

If you guys don't combine your money and then draw from one pot, so to speak, then your situation is a little different than ours. Cutting back on your giving so that you can match what he's able to do might be one way to go. Or maybe help him with setting up a Christmas Fund that he can deposit a little into each payday. ING has a fabulous savings account that yields high interest with no fees and no minimum deposit, it's all online and you can make deposits and withdrawals electronically. It yields a higher interest rate than regular bank Christmas Club accounts. And in the future, I would break it down this way:

(1) I'd decide how much the two of you are going to spend together on your child together and then both of you contribute equal amounts to giving to the child you share.

(2) He can spend what he wants on his kids, but it would be understood that the gifts are from you both.

(3) You can spend what you want on your son, but it would be understood that the gifts are from you both.

(4) Give your ex the watch! ;°)

~ Anne ~

It's too bad that you guys couldn't have resolved this issue alittle better. I don't know what to tell you, honestly. I don't think that screaming and cursing at each other is ever an answer- I've learned that the hard way. And I'll be alittle frank here, but I think your approach to the situation didn't really help either. I'd be alittle sore myself if someone came right at me, demanding to talk too, ouch. I also think that taking things out on the kids is wrong, because that doesn't make you any better of a person to 'justify' what you feel has been wrong to you, if you catch my drift. But I certainly hope that getting it all out of your system here might be better for you.

I hope things work out. Perhaps try to approach it in another manner which would allow both of you to remain calm? For one thing, if each of you are accusing the other right off the bat, then of course someone, if not both of you, are going to get defensive and not listen to what the other has to say. Try not to be confrontational about your feelings. That might help in the long run.

Anyway, I wish you well. I really wish I had something positive to tell you, but I'm really kind of sad for you that it turns out this way. I hope it works out.

It just sucks, doesn't it? It's totally unfair. He's not seeing things from your perspective and, right now, you're too angry to see it from his. It's hard to negotiate that way and since marriage is just one huge negotiation, anyway, that makes it tough. Why not put a halt to everything for a couple of days and let the tensions ease before you say or do anything else. In fact, maybe just let him make the first move and see what happens. Dump it here on us so that you don't carry it with you and try to take a breather for a day or two. Maybe you could write him a letter, one that gets everything you want to say out of your system, but edit it for tone and attitude so that it doesn't come off as being hostile, just heartfelt. Then ask him not to read it until he can do so calmly and with an open mind. Sometimes it's hard when one of us is ready and willing to hash it out and the other person isn't. You need to get it out of your system and he needs to acknowledge your feelings, but you may not both be willing to have it out at the same time... writing a letter accomplishes both while letting you both participate in the resolution at your own pace. I know it's not about gifts, it's about effort. But I would have a hard time making any effort for him or the steps in the future if he can't make some effort for you and your kids.

~ Anne ~

You are so angry right now that things you want to do now may really be bad when you calm down.
* I agree that your current situation is one that would be very hurtful to me. Again though right now you are very angry and once you calm down you and him may be able to talk this all out.
I cannot believe his daughter was going to hang up on you. How very sad that she feels that she must get in the way. But one thing I can say honestly to you I hope without you getting angry or offended, calling her a *bitch* was probably one of the worst things you could have done.. I only know this by experience on watching another girl go thru this.. She will NEVER forget or forgive you for calling/saying that to her. I know you were very angry at the time and probably don't really mean it but its one of those things. I am not saying that what she was trying to do is right by any means her father should have been adult enough to come to the phone and speak to you.. I know that he was hurt by you giving him his ring and the other things back but he also needs to realise that a relationship is GIVE and take, not TAKE AND TAKE MORE. There I am on your side.
Well I hope things get better for you..
Hugs, Happy

i went all out to get my x a nice gift for xmas and he spent xmas eve with his twin daughters shopping for their presents and when i gave him mine on xmas morning he says i only have my heart and love to give you. sorry i dint get you a gift. i was torn apart because i know he gave their mum a a gift and one for her birthday the week before and i got nothing not even a card.
belive me honey i too wish i hdnt bought him anything and felt like taking the gift back but i showed him i am better than him and just brushed it off and pretended it dint matter and i wasnt hurt.guess who will not be getting anything next year if he is still around???
as much as you are angry rigth now as i was too you need to just relax and take the gifts back and use the money for things you need or buy yourself a nice gift to make yourself feel better.