Reality sinking in: how to disengage without drama
DH had different talks with both SD's after al fall out with their toxic BM. In short: they want him to respect theri relationship with their mother, although she's been alienating DH from SD's for the last 28 and 24 years. SD's feel we are difficult people and blame us for the lack of contact.
Well, DH was finally honest with them that he does not want them to see him as the culprit and have low and uneasy contact. Part of it is: blaming us, excluding us (me expecialy) and 'play nice' when there is contact. Which has shrunken to about 3 times a year.
He wants to be open over the toxicity from their mother - yes, they acknowlegde she is.
This morning he came back after a talk with YSD and has the feeling she understands al little bit and he is back in contact with her. She lives with BM and he even feels he can visit her there whem BM is out.
Hmm, this all feels very feebly to me, YSD came to her senses? My idea is: DH is so scared of loosing contact that he comes a long way to meet YSD in how she wants it. I think nothing will change after the fall out basically and I already decided not only to disengage from OSD but also form YSD. I cannot bring myself to just sit and chat with her if she decides to come along and play nice again. After all the excluding etc.
How on earth do you manage?
he's grasping at straws
he's grasping at straws because he knows the outcome is going to be hurtful.
Grayrocking
If they are on their twenties this will be easier. When you must have contact, be civil and polite. Don't ask any questions and don't offer any info about yourself. I've been doing this with my SD60 for the last 6 years since she moved out of here. If she were anyone else, I'd cut the relationship entirely but she is DH's daughter so will be on the periphery of my life while he lives.
This works. It allows DH84 to see her here and facilitates a surface relationship with her. It deprives her of ammunition to use against me. Try grayrocking and see if that will work.
Quite frankly I think your DH
Quite frankly I think your DH is wrong to expect his kids to "acknowledge their mother's toxicity"... He needs to have a relationship on his own terms with them.. that does not involve discussing their mother. He does have to accept t hat they have a relationship with and love their mother.period. As long as their mother doesn't actively interfere with him? he needs to basically "disengage" from his EX.. do not discuss her with his kids.
He also needs to set his own boundaries over whether he will go places where she is present.. and how he will handle that contact personally.. it has zero to do with his daughters.. he cannot expect them to take sides.
I'm not saying she isn't toxic.. I'm saying it's not the place for him to take that up with them. he just needs to set boundaries for himself and that's that.
as for you disengaging.. it's not caring about them.. not making efforts for them.. do not tellhim you are disengaged.. just don't engage with them or for them.
She lives with BM and he even
yeah, this will go well. NOT -- I can't imagine BM thinking this is fine.
This sounds like a massive
This sounds like a massive set-up to me. Cue the call to the police for a tresspasser/home invader and if your DH says his daughter invited him ... well, she would never lie, would she?
Yep. Huge risk. There was a recent shooting event by a step dad
Who shot a bio dad during an arguenent around kid drop off at BM & step dad's home. The grand jury no billed and step dad was never tried.
If I recall correctly.
You Can Do It
And with them being adults, it will be very easy. DHs kids did their final act of humiliation directed at me in 2018. After 12 years of this BS, I was done. D.O.N.E. I was emotionally spent and now needed serious counseling to get me out of a deep hole I let myself get pushed into. It was 2 years of personal hell and then 2 years of personal growth. I have not seen DHs kids in over 4 years.
My DH sees his kids away from our marital home (a counselor suggested boundary), we rarely talk about his kids and I could care less what they are doing. I am getting to the place I can tolerate them again. The youngest was allowed to come to our home with his GF and baby; I had planned to be here but dates changed and I ended up on a girls weekend when they visited. I just told DH to send my greetings and I'll see them next time. I plan to do as JRI said...use the Grey Rock technique. The youngest was severly manipulated by the BM and two older siblings, making it easier for him to be the first I encounter. If and when I see the others, it will be a strong Grey Rock interaction.
Wishing you the best.
DH on cloud nine; how to take this hurdle?
Ahhhh!!!
I cannot believe what just happened!!
-First, this morning DH had his supposedly last talk at the therapist with YSD to tell her he does not like the way she treats us (als not nice people). He came back: good conversation he felt very understood. By the way: the therapist brought up the subject of toxicity of BM, nog DH (he knows better of course) and how it is BM's life goal to destroy the relationship between DH and SD's. so that is not HIS line, it's the therapist who after 2,5 years speaks out. From the responses I did not get the impression that YSD understood DH's point, merely that DH understood YSD point of view.
-Next: I receive an apoloy from YSD (bij app) for excluding me from the sorority house family party. Of course I accepted and wrote some nice things back.
-Now: DH had a premiere (he's in a play) and just before leaving, coat on and all he says: I would like to celebrate my birthday with the 5 of us (His 3 daughters, him and me) in a restaurant. That would be so nice.
Whaaatttt??? We were on a whole different route and now this???
He is happy all day, great of course, but this is what I feared. Nothing changed, we go on like we always do untill the next drama unfolds itself. I reacted sort of 'over my dead body' and said : you go with them, make up an excuse for me. I'm nog going.
He said he would go the 4 of them without me but that I had to tell them myself why I did not want to join.
And then he went out the door.
Everything is back on track right,... I'm the difficult one and nothing ever happened. We' re just going on the path he so fiercely protested against not just a few days ago. I don't know what to do, it just feels like all the other times I eventually just went along and getting unhappier everytime the drama was there again and again.
I'm so confused! My DH is happier then I've seen him in months, that's the good part.
You don't have to tell them anything, just don't go to dinner.
You don't have to tell them anything, just don't go to dinner. All he needs to tell them is you were unable to attend. He is free to have whatever kind of relationship he wants to have with his daughters. They are grown adults and not living in your house - you never need to see them again if you don't want to. They can have whatever drama they want to have, but you do not need to engage with any of it.
Agreed- just as he has every
Agreed- just as he has every right to see his kids you have every right NOT to see your SKIDs. You don't owe any explanation. They wanted to do "family time" and that would involve me as the laborer, 2nd class citizen, person to be criticized so...I told DH GO with the SKIDs for the weekend but I am headed for a girls weekend ! I guarantee they'll have an ok time and I am 1000% sure that I will have an absolute BLAST !
Go have some fun, let your hair down and let them swim in that mess ! SKIDS don't deserve you.
Instant fixes never last. He
Instant fixes never last. He is totally jumping the gun, rug sweeper that he is. The fact they are his blood is screwing up his thinking. He is playing with alienation. It's never a straight path to healing that , if it even gets to that point. It's a roller coaster, with all the dips, curves, drops and climbs and puke along the way. You get out of this by holding your boundaries and giving him a chance to bask in the glory of things being fixed. Now we all know that is not true but that's your reasoning. Acknowledge his disappointment but you "want what's best for him and skids and give them a chance to reconnect ".
Don't allow yourself back in yet. It's way too soon. Most men like things easy. So make it easy on him and wave politely as he leaves to visit with them. Grey rock him when he comes back dejected and crushed when his fantasy blows up in his face. He needs some tough love. When he can focus on the relationship you two have then come back to life and engage with him as normal. Positive reinforcement really does work.
This man is quite self absorbed, isn't he?
I think you need to neutralize your H's habit of making everything about HIM and HIS happiness. Perhaps claim a little victim status for yourself? If you show vulnerability and say this is not a good time, that you are so hurt, so tired and worn down by all the mistreatment you've suffered that you need him to support and care for you, how can he refuse without looking like a complete jerk?
A small, quiet birthday at home is more appropriate considering how much he's put you through lately, as well as a show of loyalty. Instead, he's focused solely on having his harem about him. Don't you find that odd? I'm starting to see that your BM and SDs are not the only problem. Your H seems quite selfish, and uninterested in the state of your marriage. He should NOT be leaving you home.
I feel completely cornered!!!
with what happened yesterday.
Ik talked DH out of a 'nice dinner in a restaurant where the 5 of us can really have a good talk, therefore it is very important that I would be there so they could talk directly to me too'. Back to I'm the problem. I was furious. DH said: "I only do this because you don't want them in the house."
Well he did not want that either until a few hours ago but hey, memory is a flexible tool.
So Huh???!! We have this kind of conversation in a public space, the 5 of us for his birthday?? It took me half of my free Saturday to let him cancel the restaurant. He kept on pushing that he wanted the SD's on his birthday, I mumbled that I only saw this happen on the long term with other people invited so that I'm not obliged to sit with only them at a table. I can be polite and nice - I referred to how I already deal for years with OSD.
We had already agreed that this year we would celebrate small with BD, boyfriend and me with a bbq in the garden on Wednesday (Thursday is his birthday) DH planned this specifically, BD involved because the SD's would not be here on his birthday this year. She understood and no problem. SD's were already informed as well.
Sunday morning DH took an old family app - hasn't been used in at least half a year - with the 5 of us and announced he was celebrating his birthday on Friday and he hoped they could come with their respective boyfriends. He organised drinks and invited a few neighbours so that " I would not be alone in our house with SD's'" It sounded like I should be grateful.
BD sitting on the couch (was at home) saw the message first and sais: "I really do not understand this, you said you did not invite them this year, that's why the BBQ on wednesday. Plus I'm not available on friday and now I see you celebrate your birthday with hem on friday and not me".
DH's repsons: " it is already so difficult please help me" and then he took of to his play but not before announcing YSD would be there, at the play. He's talking about her as if nothing happened. At the breakfast table about a sorority house friend who had problems . BD answered, I was not part of this conversation "Are you angry" asked DH when I say nothing (and look dark) when he's talking about SD as if nothing is wrong.
Long story short: when I came home last night from a concert : I read in the app there will be a BBQ this Wednesday here at our home the 5 of us. I lost it on my way back home where I arrived at 1:30. DH was in bed already, and getting up this morning I went straight to my laptop to post this message.
I feel completely cornered! You are so right in your answers: there is no such thing as a quick fix with alienation and my DH is playing the victim in way I've never seen of him before, he really had a spine - how he manged to break free form BM was really strong, took him years and years but he stood firm and felt strong - but now it comes to his daughters he lost his spine. And I feel irritated and angry. Not good but it's the truth.
I'm so cornered I want to leave but I cannot stand all the drama, should I spend the evening greyrocking? Leave for the evening (I already have a friend standby where I can stay) or prepare to leave DH alltogether. Or any other suggestions? Talk to him AGAIN about my boundaries or give myself the victim status as you suggested. I feel he does not want to listen because it gives him a complete panic everytime.
You are not completely
You are not completely cornered. He went behind your back, he didn't even ask if you'd be available. That alone makes me angry.
" I would not be alone in our house with SD's'"
Passive-aggressive much? This is all so underhand. I hate that.
Anyway, here's what you do. You inform him that you already had plans with the friend you mentioned. If possible, inform him via the app so that everyone can see (two can play at that game). Then you go off and have a great evening coming home only when you feel like it (I don't suppose you have security cameras that you can check from afar so that you'll know when they leave, do you?). Let the chips fall where they may.
He's playing silly buggers and doesn't deserve any sympathy. Bet your daughter is pissed too.
Yeah, keep your plans. He
Yeah, keep your plans. He needs to feel some major pain/discomfort for choosing his daughters over his wife. In fact look up the 180. Basically you focus on yourself. Cut him off in the bedroom too. Just be to busy and tired for that. This man isn't acting like a husband so he shouldn't have those benefits either. Go on about your life without a thought about him. Just as he's doing to you. Not a great plan for a marriage but he's acting out and needs a 2x4 upside his head. Keep your boundaries in place. He testing you to see if you mean them. He thinks he's being smart , wiggling around in your boundaries to push the limits. Oh hell no, not when it comes a couple of bratty SD's sowing drama. It might come to an ultimatum eventually, them or the marriage, if he can't figure out how to find balance. That's on him though , you hold strong to your boundaries. No more being nice. He's definitely not.