UPDATE ON OSD WHO GAVE BIRTH TO SO'S FIRST GRANDCHILD
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SO has contacted OSD a couple of times over the past week trying to set up a date and time to visit his first grandchild who was born last month.
In their first conversation since the birth, OSD had mentioned that he could visit "in the next several days" but would not give a specific date.
However, in their last conversation, OSD is "not ready" for SO to visit as visitors are "very tiring" and perhaps he could visit "in the next several weeks."
Nevertheless, OSD's partner, OSD's partner's family, and OSD's siblings have seen the new baby and BM is currently travelling from 2,000 miles away to see her first grandchild.
Not one to push, my SO doesn't believe that he will ever see his first grandchild and accepts this sad state of affairs.
As long as he continues to
As long as he continues to pussyfoot around her nothing will change. While he's busy comparing his treatment with that of others, maybe he should consider their approach to the situation? Did they make a date with his daughter or did they just turn up? Did they beg for an opening in her diary or did they say they'd be there on Thursday if that was OK?
Perhaps it's time he forced himself out of his comfort zone ...
Good point, Winterglow.
Although he has tried all sorts of different approaches, none of them worked with her.
He has tried just showing up and has had the door slammed in his face after a stern lecture was given to him about "not just showing up". Sometimes even, she would throw a tantrum and yell that she doesn't want to talk to him.
He has suggested a specific date, received a noncommital "maybe", shown up that day, and rang the unanswered doorbell even though he could hear that OSD was home but didn't feel like answering the door.
To give a bit of context, OSD moved out of the matrimonial home last February and SO has still not seen the inside of her place. In vain, he had made several attempts to visit her; none of them panned out.
On the other hand, OSD has gone out of her way to invite her sibilings to her home on numerous occasions, and lately, to see her new baby.
On one such visit, YSD taunted her father by texting him, "Look I got to see my new niece; who knows when you will get to see her?" along with a few photos of her holding the baby inside OSD's home.
SO will no longer pussyfoot around her. He believes he will never see his first grandchild. Resigningly, he has accepted his fate.
There doesn't seem to be much
There doesn't seem to be much else he could do.
Sadly, that is true, Winterglow.
Sadly, that is true, Winterglow.
Yes, not much else he can do.
Yes, not much else he can do.
None of this is your fault remember....I know you feel sad for him but I think you should disengage from the situation.
You can be kind and supportive, but also non committal, when he is talking about these family issues.
"Hmmm, yes" works wonders....
That's a good point, Kaylee!
For the past few years, and more so lately, he has been finding out about his daughters' activities from others (ie. his sons, BM) and not directly from them. He does try to be polite and not talk much about his daughters with me. So, the bare minimum is shared. Which is how I like it.
However, this situation is wearing on him. His normally cheerful self has been grumpier and down; and it's not just covid. Covid provided an excellent excuse for his daughters not to visit with him though and to slowly reduce contact with him which is what they have achieved.
Even though it's not my fault (as any other woman who would be associated with him would be treated this same way and it wouldn't be her fault either), I do feel badly for him and have tried to get him to go to counselling.
Many people blame my SO for how his daughters turned out and I fell into this trap also. His only fault is his naivety and blind trust and faith in others. There are many things he could have done to make the separation easier, but he did the best with the knowledge he had at the time.
It didn't help that day in and day out BM sat crying with her children saying how my SO abandoned her while at the same time being unpleasant with him and forcing him to sleep on the couch. Of course, I only hear one side of the story, but there are facts that back up the numerous awful things she did secretly to spite my SO (ie. financial documents, etc.).
However, the children aligned themselves with their weak victim-like narcissistic ex as so often happens in these cases and endured a whole heap of PAS. I lived through that too with my narcisstistic ex, but thankfully my children did a 180 turn as they transitioned out of their teenage years. Two of his children also did so.
But you are right Kaylee, noncommital yet supportive is the way to go.
"It didn't help that day in
"It didn't help that day in and day out BM sat crying with her children saying how my SO abandoned her while at the same time being unpleasant with him and forcing him to sleep on the couch. "
I'd think this would be fairly typical for a woman whose husband has decided it was over and who refused to leave...
He wanted to leave, but BM told him she wanted to work it out.
And he believed her. That's the only reason he stayed for as long as he did.
He wanted to forgive her for her transgressions (a number of secretive betrayals which each time she promised never to again).
During the two years that they were separated but living together, every morning would start civilly enough and then they would verbally fight as the day progressed. He felt that she wasn't upholding her end of the bargain to work on the marriage.
When they both were at work, things were okay as they were apart; however, he went out with friends on weekends because he couldn't take the fighting which started earlier in the day and continued for longer as they didn't have the workday to be apart.
By the end of the day, he slept on the couch because she told him to go there. He agreed to do so because he doesn't push himself on people and also because her behaviour at the time indicated that she wasn't making an effort to work it out.
I suppose he thought the couch was better than not seeing his children. I'm not sure why he didn't go for joint custody, but he didn't.
Are you really still
Are you really still pretending like your significant other isn't flawed or like he is innocent? Like his ex is the big bad wolf??? You are likely the only one who can't see that this man is garbage and stringing you along. Please increase your counseling sessions or find a new counselor if needed. Start working on YOUR issues so you can learn not to waste precious years of your life on toxic men. It's starting to sound like you focus on your toxic significant other and his issues involving his adult kids and BM so you don't have to work on yourself.
I'm not saying he isn't flawed. We all are flawed.
What I am saying is that I believe his version of events as he conducts himself in an honest forthright manner in other areas of his life.
My counselling sessions have increased from one every three weeks to one every two weeks and I believe that is enough for now. I am working on my issues but it will be a long process. Unfortunately, there is a lot of baggage there.
You are correct in that I have spent more time than necessary focussing on my SO's issues involving his adult kids and BM which has taken time away from working on myself.
However, I am always working on myself in one way or another. In combination with counselling, every month I obtain and read a number of self-help books on a variety of self-improvement topics. I do see slight improvements, but there is always room for more.
What I am saying is that I
How long was it between your relationship with your narcissistic ex and your new/current partner? It's my understanding that people who get out of relationships with narcissists generally take longer to heal in part due to the level abuse endured. You just don't sound like someone who has truly done the work needed to heal. It's questionable as to why you are even in a relationship when you just admitted you have alot of baggage. You likely would be further along your healing journey if you weren't involved with this toxic man and his toxic former family.
I asked before if you two are engaged, if so how long have you been engaged, and if there is a wedding date planned. You don't respond, because like I said you act like you don't know this man is stringing you along. It's been 6 years. How much time are you going to continue to waste on him? You said something before about him being naive when he was with bm. The truth is you are the one who sounds extremely naive. You discuss your partner and his life with his ex-wife and kids like you were actually there. If he is supposed to be so great then why did his 3 year and 6 year relationships end? He has had at least 2 failed relationships since Bm. The only reason the two of you are still together is because you don't require much and accept bs. So that means he has had at least 3 failed relationships since BM. He is the common denominator and you seem oblivious to this.
Relationships can't be so focused on the past that you can't live in the present and plan for the future. When you are healed, you are less likely to allow someone to waste your time unraveling their past and looking for excuses as to why they lack healthy relationship skills. From the sounds of it, your partner has NEVER had a healthy relationship. What is he doing to address this, other than pouring that toxicity on you? Is he in counseling? Has he ever been in counseling to work on his issues? He was a victim with BM. Let me guess he was a victim with the other 2 failed relationships too, right? Now he is a victim with you. I don't know how old he is but sounds like he has been a victim for at least 2 or 3 decades and you can't see that???
He needs to recover his balls
He needs to recover his balls from his failed family and man up.
I would go and force the toxic breeder daughter to deny me at her door rather than wait meekly for her to drop a crumb for me to hope on.
Good idea, Rags, but she would call the police.
I believe this may have happened once before and that's why my partner is so reticent to visit OSD and his first grandchild. He is awaiting an invitation before venturing over there. BM is in town and has seen the grandchild first, so perhaps an invitation may be coming shortly. So far, none has been given even though my SO follows up on a somewhat regular basis (ie. once a week).
While I respect your POV, Movingonisbest, I do not agree.
Moving on may have been best for you, but please do not expect all the StepTalk posters to follow your path. Everybody's situation is different and everybody hasn't walked in everybody else's shoes. What may be more helpful is the description of your experience and why your decision worked for you.
Since you have asked, here are my answers.
How long was it between your relationship with your narcissistic ex and your new/current partner? Five years. I was in counselling the whole time (ie. Transition Support Counsellor).
Maybe your definition of baggage is different than my definition of baggage. My definition of baggage is the sum of our experiences that shapes our world view. In case you've noticed, everyone has baggage unless you are a newborn baby.
You likely would be further along your healing journey if you weren't involved with this toxic man and his toxic former family. Agreed. Thinking about his toxic ex-wife and daughters is unpleasant for me.
I asked before if you two are engaged, if so how long have you been engaged, and if there is a wedding date planned. I didn't answer because it wasn't relevant to the question at hand. I am not engaged or married because when he asked me, I said no.
It's been 6 years. How much time are you going to continue to waste on him? I plan to live with him as long as the relationship meets our mutual needs.
The truth is you are the one who sounds extremely naive. You discuss your partner and his life with his ex-wife and kids like you were actually there. I am naive because I choose to believe my partner's honest account of the events in his life. Okay.
If he is supposed to be so great then why did his 3 year and 6 year relationships end? He has had at least 2 failed relationships since Bm. Everybody has relationships that end. Even you. Some of them are healthy and some are not.
The only reason the two of you are still together is because you don't require much and accept bs. So that means he has had at least 3 failed relationships since BM. I accept my partner as he is. Our relationship is not yet over so there is still hope to improve it via counselling.
He is the common denominator and you seem oblivious to this. Obviously, he is the common denominator in all his relationships. I am not oblivious to this fact.
Relationships can't be so focused on the past that you can't live in the present and plan for the future. When you are healed, you are less likely to allow someone to waste your time unraveling their past and looking for excuses as to why they lack healthy relationship skills. Agreed. I have enough unraveling of my past which I have previously worked on and continue to do so.
From the sounds of it, your partner has NEVER had a healthy relationship. What is he doing to address this, other than pouring that toxicity on you? Is he in counseling? Has he ever been in counseling to work on his issues? His first relationship was toxic and some of that spilled over to me. As for his second and third relationship, I do not believe they were unhealthy. Yes. Yes.
He was a victim with BM. Let me guess he was a victim with the other 2 failed relationships too, right? Now he is a victim with you. I don't know how old he is but sounds like he has been a victim for at least 2 or 3 decades and you can't see that??? As I understand it, BM was the only partner who victimized him. As far as I know, his latter partners are not narcissists and the breakups were mutual. However, you are correct in saying that BM victimized my SO for many decades. That's sad.
FWSM1964.
FWSM1964.
You are saying he asked you to marry him, and you said no? Didn't you recently say something like with these issues coming up he was rethinking the engagement or something like that? So you are going through all this crap over a man you don't even want to marry?? Or is it really that he doesn't want to get married?
If he is really a victim, then has he received any counseling? He is so much of a victim that he wants to go party with the person who he claims victimized him even after the wedding??? Does that really make sense to you?
You bad mouth BM like you know her, when most of this seems to be based on whatever your partner tells you. Has BM ever done anything wrong to you personally? You call his daughter mean as if you know her, when her response to your partner really didn't seem to have much to do with you personally. In her response, she didn't come off anywhere near as bad as you made her sound. You sound like you have been triangulated. You do know that if you don't do the work to get better and heal that you are more likely than not to attract another narcissist right? You do know the relationship you are in isn't healthy right? You say you were in counseling and you recently started again but you don't sound like you have made much progress. You still don't believe you should be happy and have a quality partner, and the truth is there is nothing any of us on this message board can do to change that.