A serious discussion about bias in family court.
With all of the current societal talk, and new laws for equal rights across genders, I feel that family court is lagging behind substantially. The bias that family court inherently places toward the mother in (almost) any case is staggering. Most specifically, when choosing the custodial parent. I've read up on several cases since experiencing family court myself (not for my child, but for my SO's). In cases when the responsible party is the male, and the less than perfect party is the female - a majority of the time - the female will still get to be the custodial parent when the choice is laid out for the state to decide.
I feel that this is inherently unequal. Single motherhood in our country is soaring - upwards of 70%, dependent on the demographic. This, itself, has led to rampant school behavioral issues, incarceration, and unemployment. Studies have shown that with no consistent male presence in the home, that children are less likely to graduate high school, have functioning relationships themselves, they just have no role model to base themselves on. Studies have also shown the children raised by a majority male presence (their biological father) are more likely to succeed than those who were raised with a single mother. I'm sure that case by case, this differs, but statistically, your child has a better shot being raised with a positive male role model than a female, yet the courts are still intrinsically biased towards females. (Step children, in general, are less likely to be successful than those that live with their biological parents, but that's another issue onto itself.)
So why are the courts still this way? Why has this not been seriously discussed in the legislature. Women, generally, always have an "out" in the relationship. Laws like this afford a woman unlimited legroom in a relationship, because they know they can leave and take their children, and be the driving force in their rearing, regardless of if they stay with the biological father. Custodial parenthood, child support, alimony, and welfare all give precedent to a female parent, where the male is stuck with the knowledge that if the relationship takes a hard left, they are not afforded the same opportunity. They are screwed for life.
Thoughts?
What I have heard about my
What I have heard about my state (NY) is that the National Organization for Women has a very strong lobby that has influenced the government into ensuring that the bias for women in custody and child support issues continues unabated. We have a law that if there is 50/50 custody, the parent who makes more money pays FULL child support to the other parent. 8/10 that's going to be the father. There is no presumption for shared custody at all here.
Lobbyists assuming women as
Lobbyists assuming women as the permanent victim doesn't do much for women, I feel.
An organization designed for the rights of fathers is needed, I feel. But PC society could reject it, for sure.
There are several father's
There are several father's rights organizations. But women being paid alimony and child support have more free time to organize.
I think I've seen the
I think I've seen the organization that your refering to. The largest represents the rights of incarcerated fathers, but doesn't help the run of the mill dad with a wife that cheated and is taking half of the assets and running out. It's the only organization that I've ever heard of, anyway.
The issue with females having
The issue with females having an unfair advantage in family court is a result of many complex issues.
First and simplest is we allow judges in family court way to much discretion. There are very few solid laws that say this MUST happen but more what CAN happen. A judge is allowed to look at the laws in place and can completely ignore them because they are recommendations that don’t have to be followed. This allows a judge’s personal bias to impact their decision making.
Second let’s look at our culture. Despite all the evidence and changes in place we still see females as the ones who run the house. If they are in charge of the house and children in a “normal” family why wouldn’t it stay that way after the divorce?
We see men as bread winners and not caregivers. That will continue to be an issue as long as we have inequality of pay in the work place. We’ll continue to have inequality of pay in the work place as long as we continue to penalize women for being women and having children.
Until a judge looks at a paper with nothing but last names of the parents and has a set law of what they HAVE to do nothing will change. The law should say that 50/50 happens unless xyz. At that point these conditions are considered. Both parents can present their facts and without gender attached and a judge can go from there.
We also need to stop seeing change of environment as the most devastating thing that can happen to a child. BM in our case was going to keep the kids because she already had them. She left SO homeless so of course she kept the children after she left him. Didn’t matter that at the time of their divorce he was able to show more stability and the place we live in ranks as one of the best cities in multiple categories. For our state BM lives in one of the worst cities for crime. Our school district is also far better than hers. However since the kids already lived with mom and were enrolled no one would even consider that dad might be the better home because that would change what the kids were used to. Let’s ignore the fact that BM had moved 4 times in one year and introduced the children to 3 new daddies. That she left SO because she was cheating on him, he had evidance of her being phsyically abusive towards and we could produce evidence of her using the kids to blackmail SO and that she barely had the kids as it was becuase she would leave them for days on end with her father who wouldn't release them to SO. Nope moving the kids in with dad was more disruptive.
Thank you for taking the time
Thank you for taking the time to answer. I totally agree that there should be a set circumstance for each case. Equal precedent should be set - and then followed. Judges should not have a choice in what the law is, but to enforce the law that is written.
It is inherently unequal, in today's society, to assume that a woman keeps the home and children, while the male provides for the home and children. It just isn't that, not anymore.
Do you have an opinion on how we could move forward to ensure equality?
Sadly the facts still stand
Sadly the facts still stand that the average male will earn more in his life time than the average female and it is more likely that a stay at home parent will be the mother. I’m not saying I agree with this but that’s the facts as they are.
The whole thing causing this is children. In our country at least it’s not normal for a dad to take any sort of paternity leave while maternity leave is common. This sets a standard from the very start. Employers penalize men who take time for their children while with a female it’s accepted. Both work it’s the woman who is expected to give up her work to care of the child if anything happens.
Even look at our bathrooms. It isn’t uncommon for a men’s bathroom to NOT have a changing table.
All of these things send messages that woman are caretakers of the children and as long as we see them as the primary caretaker of the kids and dad as the primary breadwinner the courts will continue to give mothers priority when it comes to custody. Dad will make more so let him pay for it.
I cant
even get angry about this because it’s so blatantly silly. “We need more equality in the family court system because men are better at raising kids than stupid, stinky women.”
Please provide links to these studies?
“Single motherhood in our country is soaring - upwards of 70%, dependent on the demographic.”
Firstly, which demographic are we depending this Information on?
Could it be that, based on demographics, there is a 70% rate of single motherhood because the sperm donor is uninterested in being the strong male role model in his child(ren)’s life? Based on him making his child’s mother a single mother, we can assume he lacks moral character and responsibility. How, then, does that make him a superior choice for guiding his child to completing education and avoiding incarceration?
Hold on, I'll find one for
Hold on, I'll find one for you.
https://datacenter.kidscount.org/data/tables/107-children-in-single-pare...
In the black community, single parenthood rests at 65%. Others sit around 50-ish. The only subjective statement that I made was that children are less stable in single-parent homes. I think that speaks for itself.
What you've stated, that is EXTREMELY subjective, is that fathers don't care. I believe that THAT subjective opinion is the same that a judge keeps when ordering legal reprocussions upon parents. I'm sure that most fathers would take a bullet for their child, just as would any mother, and some step-parents.
I don't wish to either side to be SUPERIOR, but EQUAL.
Ok
this is a chart of 16 years of data about single parent families. Which, actually, means unmarried parents for this study- “single-parent families may include cohabiting couples”. So any percentage of the “single parent” kids on this chart could be living with both parents and not lack a big strong man to show them the right way.
Do you have any links to the studies that show men make superior parents?
Ahh.. I honestly can’t believe you walked into this argument about demographics. By bringing up demographics, you’ve made your little essay about wanting “equality” racist AND mysoginistic. One can infer that you are saying that black women overwhelmingly raise their children to be uneducated and heading for incarceration. I find that deeply offensive.
https://www.nyu.edu/about
https://www.nyu.edu/about/news-publications/news/2015/february/teens-fro...
-Single parent families less likely to recieve a bachelors degree
https://www.fatherhood.org/fatherhood-data-statistics
-Fatherhood data stats
https://www.governing.com/gov-data/education-data/state-high-school-grad...
-Black graduation rates - which can certainly be tied to single parenthood - when single parenthood in that community is at 65%.
Facts really don't have feelings. Please realise that there is a problem so that we can work to fix it.
How
Do you have a masters degree and are so depressingly unable to make an argument and stick with it?
First link- talks about single vs 2 parent homes. Not mom bs dad.
second link- for real? It’s just another chart that doesn’t show how they came up with the statistics. Given that the name of the website could be “mommysucks.com” I’ll take this with a grain of salt.
third link- holy sh!t with the racism again. To be honest, I have no idea what this debate is about anymore. Are we bashing non whites or women??? Help me out here.
I'm truly not afraid of your
I'm truly not afraid of your mis-labeling of "racism". You asked me a question, I answered with empirical evidence.
Facts don't care about your feelings, and facts aren't racist. You can scream that as much as you want, but it's due to people doing things like that, that we have a Republican white house.
If you want to return to the original conversations, one of the first sources I provided you showed that single-father homes are below 20% of the single-parent homes. Do you press that this is because , "fathers don't care"? You completely dismiss that it probably has a whole lot to do with our justice system?
Your head must be in the sand.
Well
Since you are allowed to make subjective statements and support them with “it speaks for itself”, tell me then why you think there are so many women who are single parents? Only because of a flawed judicial system?
You say that single women are raising children to be dropouts and convicts but, somehow, miraculously those same deadbeat humans will grow up and become super parents based solely on what they have dangling between their legs?
https://www.iol.co.za
https://www.iol.co.za/lifestyle/family/parenting/dads-love-is-different-...
There is a difference, intrinsically, to the development of a child with a stable father in the picture, than that of one with a stable mother.
Are all single mom's bad? No.
Should it be discussed when 83% of single-parent households are mothers, due to, in part - by a justice system that favors females? Yes.
So
You’re saying that 83% of the time, moms are stepping up to be the primary caregiver to the child. Where does the father go? Is he actually gone or are we calling these women “single moms” just to bolster statistics? Cause a lot of the step parents on here have skids who’s biomom is “single”. But the DH is still active in the kid’s life and pays child support. Why is his contribution negated just because he doesn’t want a relationship with the biomom? Oooh. Are we heading into “first family is best” territory? Little shnookums is irreparably damaged because daddy married that whore down the road?
You really are trying to
You really are trying to press that this statistic is what it is, because fathers don't care about their children.
Now THATSSSSSSS subjective.
"Single mom" will be defined differently by different people. I assume a single mom as a mother who has their child for a majority of the time, or has custodial obligations a majority of the time. That's just me.
Depending on the study
a statistician may have classified me as a single mother. I was divorced, living in my own home, and if you took into account all the factors I was the primary parent. HOWEVER, I was not a single parent. My son has spent an equal time with his father growing up and had a solid set of bio parents in his life.
Exactly this
I would be classified as a single mother in some of these statistics because I had primary residential custody of the older kids BUT they had an active father and stepmother as well as an active stepfather. My ex husband would also be classified as a single father by some of these statistics. My kids tell people they had four parents growing up. I wouldn't call myself a single mother at all, even before I remarried.
I was more of a single mother when my husband was in training and deployed with the military for most of five years. I raised our two children without him in the home the majority of that time (and unable to parent) but I still wouldn't call myself a single mother.
Define "single mom"
Define "single mom" concernedparent123
I do 50/50 with no child support
but we live literally on the same street, five blocks apart in the same neighborhood. And we do half the week . We gets Monday Tuesday and half of Wednesday. I get Thursday and Friday. We rotate weekends. My kids seem very well adjusted and happy. We also did our own agreement . Neither one of us are high conflict . My kids do well and school and have active social lives.
dd4's dad got the steps every other weekend maybe. North Korea always scheduled horseback riding lessons or competitive cheer on his four days a month. She just used him for money. He had no say in anything . To say they have issues is an understatement. I think they definitely would have benefited if he had been allowed to parent and shape his own children but he was prevented at every turn.
Your kids seem to have it
Your kids seem to have it great. A model for how our justice system should be. (The first paragraph.)
The second is an example of what I want to discuss here. That is allowed to happen by a justice system that provides unequal results on a daily basis.
However
the justice system can only dictate time, it cannot dictate involvement and the character of the parents. They could have stayed married and still been crappy about parenting together.
I didn't have time to read
I didn't have time to read all the other responses, so please excuse any repetition.
Divorce Corp (2014)
There's currently a financial incentive for women to divorce their husbands. CS is extremely inflated, much more than the incremental cost to raise the child. States get federal matching for collecting CS. So there is an incentive for states to take custody away from the wage earner.
So one parent wins and the other loses, an adversarial relationship, intensifying conflict. Parents fighting about money for years. Kids suffer for the conflict.
What??? Why would you be
What??? Why would you be better off with taking 30% of someone's income instead of being married to them and having that full income? Not to mention how expensive divorce can be.
Even if you somehow ended up being better off financially anyone who gets divorced for that reason alone is an idiot. Having a second responsible adult and parent in the home makes life way less stressful and being a single parent is hard.
I can see the financial incentive for if you were never living together to get custody or if you are getting divorced anyway and its between being CP and NCP, but getting child support and alimony compared to having that 2nd full income? Nah doesnt make sense...
IMO
I think a lot of men do not know that they do have rights and are afraid they are gonna get financially screwed if they appear before a court to see if they have these rights. My DH was one of them. It took me more than a year to convince him to spend some time straightening out some issues and then only after BM witheld visitation did he gett off his behind. It took less than a day and less than $ 500 total.
That said; bias towards the mother. Does exist and it is based firmly on laws from the times when the mother was a homemaker and there were no DNA tests or contraceptives or other methods of determining paternity. I can also tell you that the law is progressing to a spot more equal.
There are two separate issues being discussed. The issue of child support and the issues of visitation/physical custody.
The child support issue is pretty fair in many states. I am referring to those states that do percentage of income regardless of who has physical custody. In that they take the income of the mother(regardless of marital status) add it to the income of the father. That is the total income per year. Then they take the noncustodial oarent and make them pay a percentage of the total based on a chart that is set up by the government. I believe that is fair. Each parent then pays to accomodate the child.(it is assumed the custodial parent pays their percentage bc the majority of time is spent with them)
The visitation custody is the issue heatedly debated. Custody is most often awarded to the mother bc " you always know who the mother is bit you are never sure who the father is". (See above -archaic yes). From the point of view of a small government governing 500+ million ppl it is easier to track these children by placing them with the mother who has medical records of their birth etc.
Now as far as the unfairness of it all I have heard many dads complain that the system is biased towards the mother but I have not seen a single one go to the court an demand custody(including my DH until convinced there was nothing to fear). I explained it to my dh this way.
She has carried the child in her belly and given birth to it in a hospital. She is automatically the mother bc baby came out of her. Also(see above) traceable in govt accounting to the point of birth/ origin
The man in the equation has the same rights as far as custody as the woman does only that man has to go apply for this and claim that right before a court. There is primary custody(the child spends the majority of time in the mothers home) and physical custody( the parents both have the sam rights in regards to issues pertaining to schooling, medical etc). When the man applies for physical custody he can demand 50/50 primary custody(that means that the kid shares equal time in each parents home). My dh had to o and apply for visitation and when he went he applied for physical custody . We kept primary custody with BM bc that was already the routine for SS14.
The child has the right to be financially supported until such time as it is no longer a child. In this case the woman acting as cistodian of the child has the right to file for child support - the responsability to claim the childs right before a court.
The bias toward the mother simply exists because there has to be a point of origin for the court. When understood as this it is easier to discern that there are indeed rights you have as a man and as a father. But you have to go claim those rights before a court. Juat as the woman has the right of child support but she has to go claim it before the court.
A thisd issue of competence then arises. Based upon personal experience having CPS called once bc of BM and once bc of DH I can tell you that they actually treated DH the same in both cases. In fact they had followup visits with BM but not DH in both instances(remember one call was supposedly his fault). The issue of competence is the one where I believe the government should be a lot stricter. It takes waay too long for the government to do something for the children who live in inadequate homes. Often it has to be by the intervention of a relative that the court is allerted of a problem.
i see your new to step talk..
i see your new to step talk....as in today.
Follow the money.
Another hit and run I see....
Another hit and run I see...............thesis?
Delete
Delete