Seaking thoughts on why SS is lying to BM about us...
It’s recently come to our attention SS is lying to BM about what goes on over at our house. BM sent BF a email stating SS told her we took away his gifts he got for Xmas from BF’s side of the family and gave them away. This is not even Remotely true. When we confronted SS about this he got all Defensive, said BM is lying and refused to talk about it. This is SS “classic” reaction when he is lying. BM also said this is not the first time SS came home with some outrageous story about our house. SS for the most part does not complain when he’s over so this is a total shock. Now SS knows BM HATES us and SD has told us BM laughs when SS says something negative about us or poors on the Sympathy if SS complains about one of our rules. Basically it sounds like BM is Encouraging SS behavior but not sure if that is why he’s making up such outrageous lies. Is this a form of PAS or something else? I would like people’s opinions on what could be going on and have you ever seen this?
Yes, it's a form of PAS. He
Yes, it's a form of PAS. He feels like he's betraying her if he enjoys being at your house, and he knows it makes her happy when he says bad things about you.
My SS lied his face off about us to BM, over and over again. And when confronted he would shut down like yours does. Eventually he just stopped coming over entirely because the effort to love both parents while being pressured by BM to hate DH was too much for him, I think.
Definitely sounds like PAS.
Definitely sounds like PAS. He's probably looking for sympathy and even encouragement from BM. He gets the attention he's looking for from her about how bad you guys are to him and he deserves better. She probably reacts negatively or jealous when he has positive things to say about the visit so he tells her what she wants to hear.
My in-laws told BF to just take the high road
meaning don’t play into BM’s games and Ignore the behavior since SS seems happy when he’s with us. When SS Gets older he will see the truth and turn against BM they said. Me on the other hand am fearful BM could Eventually turn SS against us if this goes on on checked. SD also informed us If BM finds out we don’t allow something at our house she will let SS do it. Do you think the in-laws are right and SS will see BM for what she is when he gets older or is it more likely she will turn him against us
Your in-laws are wrong. My SS
Your in-laws are wrong. My SS has only gotten more and more under BM's thumb as he aged. He was totally PAS'd for over 3 years.
DH should be honest with him, not bashing BM, but truthful. Things that make sense, like, "your mom is still very angry at me, but you don't have to be," or "I imagine your mom doesn't like it if you have fun over here, but it's OK if you love us and love her," etc.
There is no single method
There is no single method that works sadly. My SO took the high road and we thought the same thing that SD would eventually see the truth about who BM is but it has still lead to SD not wanting a relationship with us still.
I think it's really hard on her balancing a relationship with us and BM and is easier for her to just not talk to us. She's 16 now and back to no contact after a brief reunion when she was not getting along with BM this summer. I think possibly when she's an adult she may come back but again it will only last if she cuts BM off and with all the enmeshment they have I'm not sure it would last.
Yes, same here. Just easier
Yes, same here. Just easier for SS to not speak to DH than to try to balance it all. He came back for 3 months and is gone again. I don't think he can ever have a real relationship with DH unless he sorts out the enmeshment with BM.
Lyndsy (sp)Proper Diagnosis leads to proper treatment.
Child protection does work. Complete separation from alienator. Alienator must earn way back time with child with healthy behaviors via intense therapies. IF Alienator repeats alienation--no time with child.
Child also has intense therapy to become their authentic self again.
(Please see Dr. Craig Childress professional website for more info)
I know family court is the way to go with CPS BUT
BUT how do you prove it? I know SD won’t Testify against BM and I HARDLY doubt SS will. Even if we could get the kids to Testify BM will Deny it. So it comes down to her word against the kids. Plus BM is VERY VERY smart. She would never say or do anything Obvious. Example BF is overweight so SS makes fat jokes about BF to BM and she laughs. We won’t let SS watch certain movies when BM finds out she goes out of her way to let him watch them at her house. So basically she gives him everything we won’t to kiss his ass. This being said it maybe hard to prove what she is doing
You can't prove it. Childress
You can't prove it. Childress's theories are just that - theories, and not accepted in most Family Court settings. Unless you have a very enlightened judge, it's not worth trying to prove Parental Alienation.
The idea sounds nice and I do
The idea sounds nice and I do believe removing her would help but short of kidnapping her there's no way to do that. They're completely enmeshed and act more like roomies than mother/daughter(SD still sleeps with Mom at 16) so there's no way SD would turn on BM.
BM is smart and very covert with what she does and is also a therapist/ family counselor so I'm sure we'd have trouble proving anything.
Taking the high road will
Taking the high road will land you face down in the ditch.
BAD advise from your bf inlaws. I suspect they are really nice people and just want your bf home to be calm.
A lot of lawyers tell ncps that too. Please do not think I dislike lawyers...not true. What IS true is Family Courts are not equiped to deal with Mental Health. They want to be but they are not the professionals.
Please watch Dr Craig Childress youtube videos....just type his name in the search area on yt.
Start at number 1....
He is getting something out
He is getting something out of BM when he does this.... he likes the attention he gets, or the validation. Hard to say if BM is reacting to him, or if he is reacting to her. Are there other signs of alienation aside from this?
As to taking the high road.... it depends what BM is like partially and if it is him just wanting attention or if it is her encouraging this behaviour. However, if she is an obsessed alienater I honestly don’t think it matters one way or the other.., my DH over the course of years did a bit of both and NEITHER worked.
Why lawyers say to take the high road is more because it is a bit easier for them to defend you in court. But in all honesty the court doesn’t really and actually care anyways- they are ultra slow to move on anything and if the alienater is difficult they will never impose any actual consequences anyways. I know people say that you can have custody reversed, etc etc..... that is if/when you find a needle in a haystack judge and it usually after years and years and years of fighting in court (think in terms of averaging hundred thousand dollars +).
This is the first time we heard of SS lying
BUT have a feeling it’s been going on for sometime and BM just did not say anything. SS goes to a therapist due to Behavioral problems (not related to this). I have a feeling BM never brought it up to our attention because she does not want this mentioned to SS therapist. I’m sure the therapist would question both parents and SS. Regardless if SS told the truth or not I’m sure the therapist would try and get to the bottom of this issue and fix it. BM does not want this “fixed” so I’m convinced this is the reason she has not told us about all the other lies
Hard to say... could be him,
Hard to say... could be him, could be her. If he has behavioural issues already that could have something to do with the fibs as well?
Just our personal experience with it has been that we know loud and clear that alienation is going on- very blatant and in your face. Also BM REFUSES to take the kids to a therapist at all, even when court ordered to. But I know some can be much more covert.
Are you guys able to talk to the therapist about it?
He gets rewarded for it.
He gets rewarded for it. That is why he does it. Escalate his existence to a state of abject misery and make the balance sheet of consequences Vs benefits for that crap so painful that it is no longer worth it.
As you invoke misery, point out that the lies he tells to BM will not get him anything but pain when he is in your home.
Xero tolerance and bring the pain.