PAS Vent
I received a text from SIL today about sending our DD some hand me downs from her daughter. During the conversation I asked if she had heard from SD16 and said that she had stopped responding to us again. She said that SD has reached out a few times just recently and is trying to make plans to fly out to visit in the spring.
In her response she said that she thought it was unfortunate that there wasn't any consistency with SD having a relationship with us and how she seems so wishy washy with us and that she wasn't sure if it was her mom feeding her stuff or her.
SD stopped talking to everyone in SOs family for about 2 years and has only reached out to her aunt a few times since July which didn't start until after SD cut us out again so it's not just us that she's only wishy washy with us. It felt like she feels that we are partially at fault.
I hate being in this situation where people on the outside don't see the truth and assume that for someone to stop talking to their parent their must be something that the parent did wrong.
If you made it this far thanks for reading. I knew there would be plenty of people on this board that would understand and needed to get that out.
I totally understand. SS cut
I totally understand. SS cut us off in September. We still don't know what happened or why. His mother took him off of our cell plan and changed his number- then they both lied about it. Now we just don't even hear from him. He just ignores DH. There is no reason. Nothing bad happened the last time he was here. The problem for us was that we took him for a second opinion for a medical condition- BM said he had a dibilitating disorder- 2 doctors have now said he doesn't. BM wants him to be her payday. Can't get social security for a kid when it shows he isn't actually sick! After all that came out SS decided he was done with us.
PAS is a bitch. There is no other way to put it. If you live long distance from the kid it is even worse. It's not like you have a shot of going to counseling with them, or showing up for school lunches, or regular visitation. We have a GAL involved now who is getting highly irritated with BM. She has already missed the court deadlines- so maybe something will come through in our favor.
This is for you Makingthebest
makingthebest, over the course of 20 years my bubble for truth and justice in family court with high conflict situations has burst. It burst many years ago. . It's a terrible shame to say it but more to a terrible shame to live it.
Add into the mix Pathogenic Parenting ....
Remember kids do NOT reject a parent unless PP is present. Are you aware that Children tossed into the Foster Care system following abuse still want a relationship with their abuser. That is all they want "TO go back with mom or dad OR both who they were removed from"....Sounds crazy doesnt it...I have seen that time and time again. Its a proven fact...
Something else you must try to understand IS...Mothers are given 'much' leniency in court. Especially when they have established custody at one time or another.. Your bm missing court dates. For you and I, normal J Q Public missing a court date would be a no no. Why? Because we resepct the bench.......but all she has to say is 'I forgot, I made a mistake, I didnt know, I marked my calander wrong, etc and she will be 'forgiven'.
Your GAL can be irritated with BM all she wants. The fact remains that unless BM is sitting in the clinker for charges that will stick in a court of law...nothing will change. I bet you are paying out of pocket for that GAL,,,correct?
Oh, one more thing...if she wants ss to have a condition that brings in money HE WILL. She can doctor shop until someone will say he does. This also means you maybe on the hook for adult child support that never ends. During litigation each side can hire their own independent doctors who work "for their team". Your side reports child is fine THEIR side reports he is not.
Who tells the most convincing story wins. THere too is another hard cold fact.
With Patheogenic Parenting in full force (if this is the case)...you and dh should either hire your own Dr Childress to testify and honestly Dr Childress WILL testify have your lawyer reach out to him or let go. Money best spent there!!!
We didnt have Dr. Childress available way back when ---wish we did. All this that your doing is a waste of money because your twirling around and around in spite of what you THINK you have on BM. I never thought in a million years that it doesnt matter unless the CP is in jail. WHEN a custodial female is returned to society they usually get the child again.
*totally different when a jail bird parent is not money driven in Child support payments. Those will fall off the grid and maybe reappear every now and then. But money driven jail birds--will never stop until their money train is back in their account ie change of custody back to them.*
Sorry MTB---try to get Dr. Childress
I totally understand.
I totally understand. Thankfully, our friends and family see the truth as well. You know the truth of what's happening, just hold on to that. Other people haven't seen what you've seen, in terms of the alienating parent's behavior.
It's always hard to know if it's the kid or the alienating parent using them as a puppet.
Any of my close friends that
Any of my close friends that know the truth definitely understand as well as my family. You think that his family would understand more than anyone since they're the ones who have dealt with BM all these years.
They know BM has issues but I think that they feel like overall she's a good person and don't really see the seriousness of what she's done. I almost sent SIL a link to some of the dr. Childress YouTube videos.
That's hard. Thankfully, DH's
That's hard. Thankfully, DH's family does at least get that she has had a hand in alienating SS, even if they don't fully understand it.
That makes things so hard. I
That makes things so hard. I think so many people have the mind set of "She is the mother- she would never do anything to HARM her child" -- PAS is abuse. The more and more it is recognized for what it is the better this generation of split family homes will be. Divorce rates are over 50%. If this absue isn't nipped by the court system we are going to have major issues with generations to come.
I hear you. My DH’s daughter
I hear you. My DH’s daughter has been alienated her entire life, with brief contact with him here & there. The most recent time he let her know that it was never his choice that they’ve had limited contact, and that he actually has been contributing towards her financially since the day she was born (a small detail BM1 conveniently left out).
The facts didn’t seem to matter though because as soon as she didn’t get what she wanted (money, and not a small sum either), all contact ceased again. What a surprise!
Part of me hopes she stays gone. She’s at an age now where the chances of a healthy father/daughter relationship are slim to none thanks to the PAS, and I don’t want or need the drama. If she ever comes around he can have a relationship with her outside our home, unless she proves she’s a healthy, well adjusted human being who will be a positive addition to our family. If not, bye Felicia.
I really wanted to tell SIL
I really wanted to tell SIL that she's probably just using her to get a free vacation where everyone spends a bunch of money on her because they're excited to see her after 3 years of not hearing from her. SIL doesn't see SD the way that we do though.
I'm definitely with you on part of me not wanting her back in our lives. I always have this urge to try and rescue her and repair her relationship with her dad and her sister and the rest of her family but the other part of my brain and heart are telling me that we're better off without her. Also there's the fact that although I feel like she's a victim to her mom you can't help somebody who doesn't want it.
Right - you least of all have
Right - you least of all have any ability to influence this. Let SIL find out on her own what SD is about.
I agree with tog, I wouldn’t
I agree with tog, I wouldn’t say anything to SIL, and I definitely wouldn’t do anything to try to repair the relationship for your DH. There is nothing you can do that’s more influential than what her mother has done & is doing. Nothing.
The best thing you can hope for is that SD has an independent enough mind to someday question the things her BM has told her. It’s possible one day she’ll come to her own conclusions, but it needs to come from her. Even then, proceed cautiously.
I used to really hope my DH’s daughter would come around, but after this last little stint & seeing how hurt DH was, I can’t say I feel the same way anymore.
When she spent the summer
When she spent the summer this year before going back to no contact she did tell me a few times that she knew her mom's behavior was not normal so I do hope things change once she's older. I feel like acting this way towards her dad is so ingrained in her though I'm not sure there will ever be hope for a healthy relationship. She said a few times that she can't wait until she's 18 so she can be free of her mom and live with us. I didn't say anything but I promise that will never happen at this point. She would not be welcome.
The parent doing the
The parent doing the alienation is actually the abusive one, they are putting their desire for control above their child’s welfare and ripping the kid off from opportunities and love they would receive from the other parent.
What I have noticed about it most is that it is a game to the parent and then it becomes a game to the kid.... it is a way of fishing for self esteem. When they are chased it validates them, and when they are not it allows them to get attention and sympathy from others (I was abandoned and life is so hard)..... even though the other parent wants to be there.
The kids learn how to get what they want be withholding relationships- not only from dad/mom but from others around them as well. And they will carry these same issues when they have relationships and kids themselves.
Yes, my SS is the King Victim
Yes, my SS is the King Victim all.the.time. Nothing is his fault, everything is done to him, he never brings it on himself, POOR HIM.
He has learned it so well from BM. I can't imagine he will be much of a boyfriend/husband.
Yes - they learn early on how
Yes - they learn early on how to manipulate to gain what they want. I have a SD6 who already knows how to manipulate due to BM's PASing. It was towards my DH and then towards me once we were together. This is a type of abuse - mental and emotional abuse. We fight this abuse daily and have SD with a therapist every week and are back in court because of the abuse.
The hardest part is because SD has been PASed so long she thinks that it is actually the truth. Now we have a child that was emotionally abused that is good at manipulating and lying. This is where it all starts. Even though we are trying to cut off the snake's head, the body is still alive.
Because of the manipulating and lying, I, like Tog said, ask questions and do not take anything at face value. They have been taught a negative behavior and for at least awhile, sometimes permanently, choose this negative behavior instead of making good choices and become very good at being believable when doing it. (IE lie, steal, cheat, etc.)
Oh yes. My SS lies and cheats
Oh yes. My SS lies and cheats, we know that for sure. I don't believe anything he says. It's very sad, I don't know how he's going to ever maintain any relationships.
It's not a matter of
It's not a matter of "grilling" a person who claims they were abused- maybe more of a "Can you tell me what happened? When did it happen?" Its when simple questions like that can't be answered, and with more than shrugs, that more questions need to be asked.