We dealt with PAS from my SS's NCP SpermClan.  Which is not the norm when it comes to PAS.  In our case they would spend nearly their entire visitation time with SS undermining our family/marriage and planting toxic crap in his head about how CS was taking food out of his three younger also out of wedlock SpermIdiot spawned half sibs' mouths. How I was not  his REAL dad, I was only is StepDad and he couldn't call me dad(dy), how it wasn't fair that he had nice things and his half sibs didn't, etc, etc, etc....

So we adopted a facts based appoach to countering their toxic PASing shit.  We shared the facts with SS in an age appropriate manner. We reviewed the CO with him the, the CS details, SpermClan court records, arrest records, divorce records, financial machinations, ... etc...... 

By the time he was in his early to mid teens he knew the facts and could call their manipulating bullshit when they pulled that crap on him while  he was on SpermLand visitation.  We felt that it was important that we help him to protect himself from them both as a child and as an adult.

It worked.

Facts are friendly and facts are neither good nor bad. They are merely facts.  Give the Skid(s) the facts and they can learn to protect themselves from the shallow and polluted half of their gene pool.

Good luck.

I was not around when SS was a minor.  SS was an out of control person from the time he was FIVE years old (when his first inpatient psych stay was recommended) (before their divorce).  When I first heard how wife #2 treated SS (not having him around her children) I thought she was awful.

Wife # 2 was not a nice person for many reasons but not how she treated SS.  He was a horrible person. And  wife # 2 was absolutely correct in in not wanting SS around her children.  I do not blame her for that at all.

But none of that is any of my concern as SS was in his early 20s when I met DH and he and wife #2 had been divorced for several years.

It's not always so obvious. In my situation it was more manipulation that built up not straight lies. When SD would come over her mom would tell her how much fun she was having without her and how much she missed her and wished she could be here with her. Also if SD was distracted she'd make comments about how she could just get off the phone because clearly SD didn't have time for her. SD would go from having a lot of fun with us to wanting to go home to spend time with BM any time they spoke on the phone. 

I'm fairly confident that she had made comments over the years about how if your dad loved you he'd . .  Fill in the blank based on some comments and behavior I've seen.

BM is also very good at turning situations around to be the victim or make SO the bad guy. There was once a time that SO was trying to get SD to smile for a picture after a science fair but she was upset she didn't win and started crying. Her mom turned to her and said are you about to get your period because I'm tired of you crying all the time (SD was which of course made it worse. The next time SD came over she made a comment about how SO made her cry because he was mean WTF

Dr Craig Childress talks about the favored parent downplaying having fun at the other parents house and getting really excited about any negative stories which then encourages the skid to talk negatively because they like the attention and start focusing on all the bad things. I would put good money on this happening with BM in my case.

Bm started alienating Ss at a very early age. Why did she do it?? Simple, she just a vile, despicable person. She conviced Ss(who at the was 14) that Dh did not love him anymore, wanted to forget about it and just focus on his "new family". She ruined ss's and dh's relatiosnhip for 2 years.  Dh was shattered that ss wanted noting to do with him.  He went depressed!

Thankfully Ss(now 16) realized  the truth and literally came running back into our lives and embraced dh. Before the ailenation, Ss was a star play for his school's soccer team and got straight A's. Now he doesn't play soccer anymore(we're trying to get him back into it), he are scars on his wrist, his lacks any self worth, has developed major seperation anxiety from dh,  suffers from major guilt about his past behaviour, but luckly his grades are still the top. Dh is taking him to a therapist , changed his whole work schedule around to spending at much time one on one time with him as humanly possible. It's going to be a long time before ss heals completely 

We're taking Bm back to court for full custody. Dh does not want ss  around bm while he's trying to heal. 

Parental aliention should be considered child abuse!

The BM in my life used some of the PA noted above. More specifically, she told the SKids that DH would love them less after he and I got married. She also told one (the one she is enmeshed with) that DH “caused the divorce” and was “going to take him away” from her when we moved closer.

She also engages in undermining DH as a parent. For example, telling SKids that he can’t tell them what to do with their phones when they are with us because she paid for them. Trying to dictate what is done on DH’s weekends. Telling SKids that they don’t have to listen to DH or meet his expectations because she is the only one who can tell them what to do. Demanding to pick Skid up early because he was “uncomfortable” being with DH after DH parented him and he got offended. Neither Skid really sees DH in a parental role anymore due to BM’s need to dominate.

The sad thing is that I can tell it bothers both kids that she does this. One is now starting to want to come around, but I know that he wants to feel ok loving his father. BM just makes him feel like he shouldn’t. As much as I get annoyed with SKids, I do feel bad that BM is messing with their heads so much. 

PAS here was done in the very beginning. Like, the first two years of getting acquainted with a solid CO visitation schedule. Per the norm, BM pulled all her punches via meaningful holidays to DH. Father’s Day and his birthday, mainly. BM did everything in her power to NOT give him those days with his child.

BM also didn’t give DH the right of refusal, when it came to skid needing last minute care. She would bypass him entirely and just take skid to one of those drop-in childcare’s in the city. It was absolutely ludicrous.

Parents that engage in PAS, it’s just a matter of giving them enough rope to legally hang themselves. That means you and the bio parent hanging in there as well, unfortunately.

My SS is PAS'ed to the point that it is scary. We aren't giving up yet but BM is trying her damnedest to keep DH away.

- Hides/ Lies about all things medical

- Lied and managed to get SS off of our phone plan and changed his phone number so we couldn't reach him.

- BM Refuses to talk to DH about anything related to SS- what sports he is in, what his grades were, what he wants for Christmas... NOTHING

- Fights tooth and nail over visitation. We are back in court next week.

Just read my blogs. PAS is all over them.

Oh yes, I forgot that one.

BM removed DH off of all of skid’s medical and school paperwork. Classic PAS maneuver.

BM tried to PAS the boys by crying about how she didn't get enough CS so they would hear, disrupting DH's custody time by withholding the kids or scheduling things on his time, bleeding him dry monetarily so he couldn't fight it, badmouthing DH to friends, family, school officials, and anyone who would listen. So on and so forth.

Similar to Rags, DH took a fact-based approach when necessary, or he ignored the rumors and let his actions speak for themselves. It's really hard for BM to cry "poor single mom with no support and an absent father" when DH is writing the check for Cub Scouts and DH, GBM, BM's now-XH, MIL, and myself all show up at school events. Oh, and when she is living under GBM's roof, MIL's roof, or out of an apartment my DH was paying for (before my time).

She has given up. The fact-based approach and being involved soured BM's plans. The boys were smart enough to realize DH wasn't lying, and everyone else saw the whackadoodle liea BM was telling. As a result, she cycles through new friends/hobbies every 1-3 years as that is about how long it takes for people to realize she is full of it.

There is a reason I call BM Toxic Troll and eldest Toxic Feral Eldest SD19.

ToxicTroll would tell her children very negative things about me, like "she doesnt have a chin (TT has one of those large faces with cleft chin) I dont have eyebrows (I do -they are BLONDE) I look pregnant (shes obese), and she PAS'ed the elder against me.

THEN when things were really getting going, the Toxic Feral Eldest then 17ish, would make the younger cry, with statement of "look, CLove is more important to Dad than WE are. He is going to kick you out like he kicked ME out, hes going to choose his GIRLFRIEND over his CHILDREN, his SEED, his BLOOD."

This was after an argument with her father over her filthy room that I had nothing to do with, and an argument with me over holding the rabbit inside without a towel or something because she would pee and poo. Her father had her bag some clothes and stay at her mothers until she could "straighten out" or whatever he was thinking at the time. I had never really heard of Parental Alienation Syndrom, but have definitely seen my share.

When we were going through the child support hearing, and DH was trying to get 60/40 custody so he could claim Munchkin for his head of household and lessen child support, (you cant do that, but he refused to hire a lawyer...) ToxicTroll claimed that he was "trying to take away her child" We werent asking for a change in schedule, simply wanting to document that we have more time with the child. So ToxicTroll also texts Munchkin "Urfather is trying to take u away from meeeee" involving the child in her toxic ranting. 

Toxic Feral Eldest now is no contact with DH, lives with Toxic Troll and booted Munchkin out of her room.She is mad that I completely cleaned her room of trash, and made it into a really nice space with plants and a fish tank and took the door off so its open and light. I should have kept the space locked up with all her smelly trash, empty whiskey bottle, used condoms, and dirty laundry with dirty pads. Created a shrine with empty water bottles and used-up makeup.

So, yes, Toxic Feral Eldest is just like her mother - pathalogical lying and making up stories, and now trying to PAS the little one against me, her father, her uncle and auntie and the rest of the family. Because Munchkin is happy and she wants to take that away from her.

I honestly dont know why a mother would want to break down her children and take away that thing they need most - their parents. Children NEED a healthy relationship with BOTH parents. And steps as well. 

The narcissim that I have seen! The selfishness! The trashy behavior. Endangering the children with toxic envirnoments.

Its really sad, and breakd my heart.

Today Munchkin told her father that "she doesnt like it over there much, she likes it better with us." I have to warn DH that he needs to not go down that rabbit hole, he needs to just let Munchkin figure it out  herself. Shes 12, but has had to grow up quickly.

I friend sent me this message this morning: 

I don't cry like other women anymore. I've felt the pain of being knocked down, and I've decided I'll be part of the construction of others! Too often, women find it easier to criticize each other instead of building each other up. With all the negativity out there, let's do something positive!

Yup.  Sometimes when I skim the stories on here, I am astounded at destruction that BMs create - particularly in the realm of PAS.  There is so much more that underlies the dysfunction of BM's who find it necessary to create PAS.  Ironically, these women who have created life are experts at sucking it out of everyone else.  Unfortunately, most BMs who assert alienation will never look into their own wounds and attempt to understand themselves.  Without pause, they act out and use their children as tools to ameliorate their personal pain.  I consider BM and SD as amoebic life forms, viruses that keep trying to mutate their hate into our lives.  DH and I consistently work to keep our partnership healthy so we can remain immune to their infectous manipulations.

SD is carrying the "mother wound" and will most likely pass the dysfunction down to her own children.  BM is an alcoholic-narcissist who "supposedly" has a familial history of incest.  She told DH when they were married that her intimacy issues were due to her brother molesting her. (Albeit, she found the gumption to have affairs during their marriage. Go figure.) Ofcourse, this may be another victim lie amongst the volumes of manipulative tactics in her deranged arsenal.

Unfortunately, SD has been molded into what BM requires to the fill the black hole of her narcissistic existence. I wouldn't doubt that BM's psychological dysfunction was epigenetically seeded into SD in utero. Stepping out of their vicious vortex was no easy task, and we are aware that BM is trying to suck SS into this malicious maelstrom of PAS.  We have hope for SS.

Those of us targetted with PAS need to hold our boundaries, speak the truth, and focus on maintaining our mental health.  I am in complete agreement with those who believe that "the truth must be told" accordingly.  The antiquated notion of "being the good guy" and refraining from speaking the facts about the alienating parent is completely ineffective when dealing with the aggressive tactics of PAS. I'm yelling it from the top of the moutain!

"BM and SD are crazy, whacked-out, oxygen-sucking parasites who produce lies like a factory in Bejing." 

BM and SD's skin-creeping behaviors are like white noise anymore.  It's there, but unless we focus on it, we don't notice.  It would take years of therapy to remotely readjust these twisted sisters, but ofcourse neither of them would ever consider they have any issues. They are the victims of their delusions. 

This might interest you. https://womboflight.com/why-its-crucial-for-women-to-heal-the-mother-wound

Just checking to make sure I understand correctly.  You are 23, your SD is 19, and your SO is 41, correct?  You've been involved with your SO for five years and by your own description, a "parental figure" to SD since you were 18.  Is that right?

You have been on ST for one week and have posted lots and lots of topics and asked for and gotten lots of input from people who spent considerable time doing so.  

You seem to be extremely well-versed in the step-life topic for someone 23 years old.  You also seem to have a great deal of experience with parenting, although your own daughter is only 1 month old.  You became involved with your SO when you were 18 so it's amazing how worldly your insights are.

you are dealing with PAS here. The kids were not blind when dad moved an 18 year old into their home shortly after kicking their mother out and the oldest is older than you are. Plus the now 19 year old lived with you and dad. It is also hard to continue a sport when you are drinking and using drugs (the drinks being supplied by dad) and then she got pregnant.....all under dad's roof so how is it mom's fault she is not in this sport? 

You lay a lot of blame on this child's mother. A lot. Everything is her fault when in reality this is a crazy dysfunctional situation perpetuated by your husband.