Family Picture- Thoughts?
I was reading on another site and someone had posted that their SO's family (I think the sister was organizing) and wanted to do a family picture for their mom for a Christmas gift.
The poster has been with her SO for 6 years, has a 10 year old and 6 1/2 year old. These kids see her SO as their dad (and SO's family as their family) as their own fathers and family aren't very involved. The poster and her SO have 2 kids together. The sister who is organizing the picture said she only wanted the 2 biological kids in the picture. Not the other 2 kids because they weren't blood related and the poster wasn't married to her brother.
Poster was worried about her children (not with SO) would feel excluded to not only not be part of the picture but to also be present when the grandma would be gifted the picture.
What are your thoughts on this? Should the children who aren't biologically related be excluded? The poster had stated if her 2 oldest children weren't going to be in the picture then her 2 youngest weren't either, to which her SO was fighting her on that.
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Well, technically she "isn't"
Well, technically she "isn't" family since they aren't married right?
I guess when considering the intended recipient, perhaps limiting the photo to "blood relatives" isn't a completely horrible thing. Especially true if the number of people already in the picture will be pretty large in number to begin with.
Is the friend also going to be in the picture or not (since she's not married).
Well it's true, her 2
Well it's true, her 2 children are not blood relation, the poster should simply teach her children that this is how it is, there's a difference between blood relations and family, and even if they are not in the picture it does not matter, DH still loves them...
SIL is huge in family photo's year after effing year, every year she asks me to stand with them, I smile and say, nope not family...
simply because years and years ago she took pictures of the children and Deigma was told to get out of the picture cause he's not family..Aergia did this and no one corrected her.... and it was not a family thing SIL simply said all the kids pose for a holiday photo so we can count them.. Aergia's friend was in the photo...
and what makes me laugh, one of SO's brother's is a real player, every year it's a different lady in the family photo's, and it's very funny to see how he tries to get out of it when he brings his girlfriend a year, yes he's been seeing this girl for 5 years, but in between there's photo's of 3 other girls in the so called "family photo"....
We are doing family pics for
We are doing family pics for a grandparent gift as well (for my parents). My SIL is organizing, and she insisted that my SD be in them because the gift recipient would want it that way. I think all the grandkids should be included either way, but without specifics on the larger family dynamic (are poster and SO always on/off again, are they separated, high drama, etc), I'd be hard pressed to guess at why SIL doesn't want them in there. Also, was poster to be in the pics or not? Good for the poster for saying all or none on this one though. My SD and I don't have a great relationship, but she's still a kid...I can't imagine leaving her out of something like that, even if I wanted to.
I think the reasoning was
I think the reasoning was that the poster and her SO broke up a lot? And no I don't think she was invited to be in the picture.
I think it's wrong to punish
I think it's wrong to punish kids for the choices of adults, and that's how I view this - punishment. The kids will be hurt if they call these women grandma and aunt. There will be damage done by this to those relationships.
I might feel differently if everyone wasn't close, or the poster's kids were teens about to go off to school. However, these kids have spent the vast majority of their lives viewing their SF and his family as their own. If that family has reciprocated, then they shouldn't come back later and be all "sorry, only blood is family for this picture, bit make sure you're here on Christmas when we present it!" That's just mean-spirited.
I don't think the poster can forbid the other two from being in the picture, but her SO is walking on thin ice. I'd be irked to no end if my SO stood by and called my kids "his" but then refused to stand up for them with his family. Either mean what you say or don't say it; don't straddle between "awesome SF" and "disengaged BF" when it's convenient for you.
Mind you, I say all this assuming that, up until this point, everyone acted as a whole family unit. If that isn't the case, then that changes my opinion.
Honestly, this is one of the
Honestly, this is one of the reasons DH and I have nothing to do with his Dad. DH's dad adopted him at 4, so he's not blood related. FIL also has a stepson from his second wife. All of those folks are fine, even though there's not a blood relation. Skids are great, even though they're not blood relations.
DD (my bio) and I are nothing.
Thank goodness DH and I are on the same page.
" Not the other 2 kids
" Not the other 2 kids because they weren't blood related and the poster wasn't married to her brother."
I'll assume than not only the two older children but also the woman of these two children will also be left out of the photo? If that's the case, then fine, Dad can take his two and smile away . However, if the woman is to be ( or expected to be) in the group family picture, than no. The lady setting up the photo session does not get to pick and choose who is 'family' and who is not. Blood is blood, right? No same blood, no standing in photo.
Honestly, as a grandmother, I would be offended when I learned the details planned for the photo shoot. No one child (the man's sister) of mine gets to pick who MY family is. If I have opened my heart and home to these two older children, they get to be in a photo being taken for me. It's my Christmas gift after-all.
And if, as the receiver of such a 'family' photo, when I learned the grief and problems it had caused for my children and their individual families, I would be pretty angry at my child who arranged the session. I would have much preferred the daughter asked solely my own children and left out all the spouses and grandchildren than upset the families of my other children.
You know.. I just went back
You know.. I just went back and read the original post and I actually missed something the first time. I was assuming that this was a situation where the Woman had two kids by a prior relationship and her SO had two kids from a prior relationship.
However, in actuality, the woman has two kids with her SO.. that means that HER kids are BLOOD related to her SO's kids (through her being mom of both).
For this reason, I think that SIL needs to check herself because these children will still be her brother's children's siblings even if they divorce.. they are likely to carry on a relationship with them.
If he’s the dad of the two
If he’s the dad of the two bio kid and she’s mom and the relationship is I good standing, why shouldn’t all the kids be involved? I ran seriously, my parents even want the Skids in their family pictures. It’s dumb to exclude someone, that’s nearly as dumb as saying “well you’re married, but what if a divorce happens and you’re in our pictures? Do we start excluding spouses too? What if they never get married but are together the ENTIRE time? They’re family right now...
I understood when DH’s family did family pictures before we were even engaged and I wasn’t in those, because yeah, just dating means just dating. But if you’re co-habitating, and have kids together, married or not, that’s family.
You can't tell someone how
You can't tell someone how they must define their own family. If the sister doesn't consider the older children of the poster family (and technically they arent), then that is the way sister sees it - and she has the right to exclude the kids from her pictures.
Poster has the right to allow none of the kids to be in the sister's photos and sort it out with her SO. Poster has no right to tell the sister who her family is - whether married to the brother or not.
We (or at least some of us) don't consider BM family ('the mother of your stepchildren") or we ignore some of our own stepchildren. Never mind the people who disown their OWN blood family because of feuds and disagreements.
So here I side with the sister. These entitlements people want (my kids in your photos) annoy me.
They are the half siblings of
They are the half siblings of the Grandkids... technically they are related to SO's biological children.
They have no DIRECT blood
They have no DIRECT blood relation to SO or the sister.
If the sister wants a pic of the 'grandkids", the older two arent. No amount of "cousin's sister's, aunty's brother's whatever" explanation will make them family of the sister if she doesnt consider them family. They could be her own kids, and if she does NOT see them as family, they arent to her.
This is the way the sister sees it. Cant shove someone else's kids down "her" family throat. She defines who are members of "her" family - not the poster.
(The grandma may not see it that way - and may appreciate a photo of all the grandkids. In this instance it is that the SIL doesnt see it that way - and this is her choice.)
The direct blood relation is
The direct blood relation is that they share the same mother as their father's children.
This isn't all that tenuous of a relationship. Unless every spouse is being excluded from the family photo(because.. zero maternal bloodline flowing through) then these kids are related to SO through his kids by blood.
These aren't just unrelated stepsiblings.. these are related "half siblings" that share a parent.
They ARE related and excluding them would be hurtful and obvious. Unless the mother who is receiving this picture is hell bent on continuously stating that they aren't related.. and has made that clear.. I don't think SHE would have a problem with having the siblings of her grandchildren in the picture... siblings related by blood to one another.
I see this side too, but I
I see this side too, but I also think the sister isn't looking at who the brother sees as family either. I'm not saying force anything obviously, ultimately they'll either all have to just be out of the pictures or just go with what the sister decides. But her brother sees the kids and his SO as his family, from the sounds of it, on a permanent basis. So I think cutting them out is asking for trouble as well.
I side on the side thinking the Skids are my family too based on them being my husband's kids, me being his wife, and the fact I'm helping raise them, BM I don't consider my family or DH's family, I see her as the Skid's though. She's very much so not involved and causes issues for everyone when she is, so I see that as justified. I have a close friend who's a BM and they totally function as a family with the SM most of the time, neither of them are crazy though or threatening and neglecting children. She's only involved so long as it benefits the skids (though lately it's seemed more like it's harming them, but that's not my call, even told them as much when SD8 said she didn't want to have to go with BM, I just told her that wasn't my call to make and to finish getting ready and high tail it out the door, lol)
At first I sided with the sister, but then it sounded more like a permanent, as good as married just haven't tied the knot and even have kids thing. So I see her brother's side of him probably seeing them as his permanent family. Regardless, they can't force the sister's hand, and I don't see that as respectful either. I do think both need to be a bit more open about looking at how their actions are affecting the other though.
I totally agree that the
I totally agree that the sister is not looking at this through the eyes of her brother who probably sees all four kids as his. That is the way the brother sees it. It is not the view of the sister.
(Personally I consider that unfortunate. It does not bother me whether the poster and brother are married - irrelevnt to me. However the sister's attitude so often mirrors the attitude of many women here who consider their stepchildren STEP children and treat them as such. If the sister doesn't consider two of the poster's kid's family, then tough all round. We still don't get to tell someone who their family is or should be.)
It just super sucks. I can
It just super sucks. I can only imagine what my husband would feel if my family decided that since the Skids aren't blood to me they aren't family. I'd be pissed too tbh. I'm raising them full time, even if I wasn't, they're my husband's kids, so they're family. I'm glad at least my family sees them as such and even wants them in the family pictures we're going to take.
Hopefully they get it all sorted out tactfully.
The picture if for Grandma.
The picture if for Grandma. If SHE considers those kids family, they should be in the picture.
The sister can decide who she considers part of HER family, but the picture is not for her. She needs to think outside of herself.
"She needs to think outside
"She needs to think outside of herself." - Agreed!
Many people dont and we see the results.
(I am not defending the sister. I see her point of view though and I don't see reason to change her mind - even if I don't agree with her.)
I think it comes down to who
I think it comes down to who is paying for the picture? If he's not paying for the photo and SIL is paying for all of it then yes she should be allowed to decide who or who is not included.
If SO is helping pay for a portion of it, then yes he should have to say of who is allowed to be photgraphed for his family.
I think her SO could also
I think her SO could also decide whether any of his kids would participate in the photo as well. ie he may not be able to force his sister to allow his children's half siblings be allowed in the picture.. but he can veto his own kid's participation. Which.. he seems to not want to do.
Ultimately, it would be nice if the MIL could be asked what HER preferences were since the picture is for her benefit.
If these children have been considered "family " by these people now.. then it seems cruel to exclude a 6 and 10 yo.
If her SO decides to do that.. Bet that I would take those other kids on a trip to somewhere super fun that day like disney..
I agree. If my husband
I agree. If my husband decided to do this, there is no way my kids would be at the present opening. It would cause some very serious problems in a relationship.
What does the poster's SO say
What does the poster's SO say about it?
If I was the SO, I would say hell-to-the-no and my children biological or step or the ones I was helping my SO to raise or whatever you want to call them participating. I would not participate either.
I find it a little funny that
I find it a little funny that she states that her SO is 'dad' to her two oldest yet he is fighting her on her stance that her two youngest won't be in the pic if the two oldest aren't. Maybe that relationship (DH and his skids) isn't as peachy as she claims.
I'd let the sister take her
I'd let the sister take her pics and then go get my own done. I wouldn't even let the two excluded children know what was going on but take them to the movies or something fun. SIL is petty but that's on her.
I can understand both sides.
I can understand both sides. I can understand his family (especially, if their relationship is rocky) not wanting to include her kids from previous men (If I read the original post correctly she has 3 baby daddies?) BUT if those kids live with them 100% I feel they should be included and that it would be hurtful to them to NOT include.
I don't see why they need to be excluded all together, Why can't they just do different pictures? One with skids, one without, one with just (adult) siblings, one with just siblings and their spouses (or SO's) etc.
If the skids didn't live with them and were just EOWE or something, I could see not including them, but the fact that this gal would have to bring them along to the photo shoot (because she is CP) and then have them sit out... that's just mean and I feel sorry for the kids. If it was me, I'd refuse to do the stupid pic.
I kind of see both sides of
I kind of see both sides of this, honestly. We just did a big family photo for my parents for their 40th wedding anniversary. We put together a collage of the individual families (Bro1 + SIL1 + StepNiece18 + StepNiece14, Bro2 + SIL2 + Nephew3 + Nephew1, and Me + DH + SD12 + SS11 + BS5 + BS2) and then one big photo of all of us. Mom and Dad both professed to love it, but Mom told me later in private that she would also (not instead) have liked to have a photo of just BS5, Nephew3, BS2, and Nephew1 since they are her real grandchildren. Bro1 and SIL have been married about 1.5 years, so while StepNiece18 and StepNiece14 are sweet and kind, they don't think of us as their family. SD12 and SS11 do think of my parents as another set of grandparents, but they aren't as close because they miss out on most of the bonding time due to the custody schedule.
It makes it a little difficult to do grandparent gifts, especially because SIL1 is completely unwilling to accept that my parents don't have the same relationship with her daughters that they have with their biological grandkids. My DH says he doesn't like it but he understands there is a difference in the feelings, and since my parents don't treat the kids any differently when they are all together he doesn't think about it all that often.