SS and His Crazy Entitled Behavior
So...SS has been driving DH and I insane lately with his crazy and (in my opinion) entitled behavior. DH thinks he's just "clueless" and "bad at money" like his mom...but I pointed out that being chaotic about finances implies a certain kind of entitlement to me...because he knows someone (aka us or his grandparents) will bail him out and he is counting on that instead of learning to be disciplined.
I'll try to be brief.
At Christmas, DH and I agreed to $350-400 per kid. About $250 of "fun" stuff and the rest practical items (power banks and AAA memberships for everyone!)
Anyway...one of SS's presents didn't quite work, and he had to go back to his school town for work before he could return it, so we said we'd return it for him and send him the $$$ however was best for him. We did that through Venmo...and we saw about a hundred entries from his BM sending him money every 10 days or so, all tagged with something like "Survival" or "Food" or "Gas" etc.
Obviously...that's completely her business and not our concern...except for how it's affecting SS. The thing is:
1. He's going to community college for a specific trade program...very cheap and 100% covered by the Pell Grant with a little left over for expenses even. He also gets a grant from the school for books and equipment.
2. His grandparents (DH's parents) are covering all of his rent as an interest-free loan. They've signed a contract with him that they'll forgive half the loan if he graduates...won't forgive it if he drops out.
3. He works a really decent job and has already started taking day positions in his trade...which pays really well.
We're both completely confused as to how his finances can be in such a shambles that he literally needs emergency funds every 10 days or so...I mean, it could be $10 at a time...who knows. Again, it's not our business...it just concerns us because of what it says about SS and his ability to budget and manage money. Meanwhile, both of the girls are off on their own...not getting help from the grandparents...at more expensive schools...and they are managing quite well and even thriving. SS always has new clothes, though...so that's something. DH is really worried because he's recognizing some tendencies that are going to be a problem later in life.
Anyway. All that is prelude.
Yesterday...DH's mom forwards him an email she received from SS telling her and FIL that SS has decided to move into a home with this guy he met over Christmas from his mom's church. He realizes that they pay for his rent a semester at a time...but this is a good opportunity and he thinks it's "God's Will" for him to move. He appreciates all their help...and is sorry for the abruptness of this news...but he's got it under control.
It was really quite an arrogant email all around. And likely written by BM...it sounded just like her.
So MIL forwards it and is like: WTH??
DH calls her...talks to her about it. He's upset, she's upset. SS had been thinking about this move since before Christmas...he mentioned it to DH in passing and DH had told him...NO. Don't do that. If SS had communicated it to his grandparents more than 2 weeks out...they could have NOT paid the $3500 for the last semester of rent. But "Oh Well" what does that matter to SS? It's not his money, after all.
MIL says to DH: "I mean, your dad and I had planned to let SS pay the first few months of the loan and then tell him we forgave it all...but we've talked and now we're not going to do that because this was so disrespectful to us and our resources."
DH completely agreed and told her he'd call SS to talk to him as well. The conversation between SS and DH was absolutely infuriating in every way. DH was trying to talk sense to SS...who kept getting really defensive and saying things like: "Look, dad. I have to figure these things out on my own now and make my own mistakes...I just have to LEARN" (never even considering that one of the ways to "learn" is to talk to people who are older and wiser than you, apparently) and "I HAVE been communicative!!! I SENT that email!"
When DH pointed out that he could have saved his grandparents over three-grand if he'd told them earlier...and that his decisions in his relationship with his grandparents didn't only affect him but also the whole family...none of that seemed to have any effect at all. Zero remorse...zero...I know I messed up. Just defensive behavior and self-righteousness. DH finally had to just get off the phone.
When he did...we talked.
DH: "I just. I don't even know what to do at this point. He's going to marry some responsible girl who loves him and thinks he's cute...and then she's going to divorce him because she can't handle this kind of crap and it's going to wreck him."
Me: "Probably."
DH (snort): "Watch. The next thing that happens will be his mother contacting me...indignant. 'I can't believe your parents are actually making SS repay that loan!!!'"
Me: "Yep. For sure. They're both incredibly entitled."
DH (bristling a little at the word entitled): "Well...I wouldn't say he's entitled. He just takes after his mom and is very chaotic and undisciplined about money."
Me: "Right. Because he's entitled and just assumes someone will pick up his slack. His grandparents won't really make him pay back that loan. We won't really expect him to pay his rent on his own. He would never have made such a stupid decision if he honestly believed that HE was going to be the one paying double..."
DH: "Yeah. Good point."
Sorry that got so long. I'm just aghast and agog as they say. The thing is...SS is typically a very grateful and respectful...which is why this dismissive, cavalier attitude about wasting his grandparents' money and this defensive, arrogant attitude toward his dad is so shocking. It sounds so, so much like how his mother thinks and talks about money...especially the "God's Will" line of bull. I worry that he was pressured into this rash, unspeakably dumb decision by the woman who burns through cars like they're made of matchsticks and then asks us and her parents (and DH's parents, for that matter) to help cover basic expenses and extras for kids.
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Comments
It sounds like SS needs to be
It sounds like SS needs to be hit with reality. Maybe the grandparents need to tell him he owes them the $3500 on top of half the loan he’s repaying after he graduates. Or maybe the entire thing due to his total lack of respect and consideration.
No more help, no more extras. If he wants to figure it out, let him!
When you said BM expects ‘us’ to cover her basic expenses, did you mean she hits you & your DH up for money??? Dear lord...
She used to every six weeks
She used to every six weeks or so...yes.
She also went directly to DH's parents several times to ask for money for larger things. As I told him...if we divorced I would literally sell my body on the streets before I would stoop to asking his parents for money. How entirely inappropriate on every level. She has no shame.
Of course DH laughed and said I would probably enjoy selling my body a little too much.
Anyway...SS's recent behavior is mortifying and clearly derived directly from his no-account mother. DH and his parents and I had a conference call and all agreed that they have to hold SS to the loan agreement after he graduates. They won't add to it or go back on their word...even though SS went back on his in a hurtful way.
This isn't just BM. This is
This isn't just BM. This is DH, too.
DH married someone who could support him (you). He wastes other people's money that is gifted to him, and he can't do anything without their money (his parents). He may work hard, but he knows that you or his parents are there as a safety net if/when his business brings in nothing. He, however, is even more entitled and selfish because, not only does he expect that others support him, he expects them to support his kids, too.
Your DH needs to look in a mirror and understand that, while BM may have taught SS to be chaotic, DH taught him that everyone else will save him. The funny part is, that while your DH is ashamed by his son, he has ZERO skin in the game. If SS fails, the people to save him will be his grandparents or you. And you know your DH will be pissed if either you or his parents don't jump to do it, even though your DH wouldn't be caught dead getting a "normal" job that would impede his bohemian lifestyle.
Don't let DH gaslight you into blaming BM solely. This is just as much his fault, too.
Could be fair points...but a
Could be fair points...but a couple of things:
1. The kids don't really have any idea how our finances are handled or who earns what...so SS would have no reason to believe that his dad doesn't earn much. I'm not sure how he would "pick up" on that "flaw" if that's what you'd want to call it...or how DH's behavior would make him think other people will save him. BM, on the other hand, has horrible habits...like buying brand-new cars and going out to eat all the time...and regularly came to us for money when she made stupid financial decisions (Buying a new car instead of taking care of her old one...and then needing us to buy her groceries, for instance. We literally went over there with bags of groceries one night when SS was a kid. Going on an extravagant birthday trip and then begging us for CS a week early because she was about to overdraft. DH and I also had a running joke about BM selling off furniture and other things to make ends meet. This is the world SS grew up in. Their entire life with her was chaotic in every way...financial and otherwise. She trashed cars, never got oil changes, and has been through 4 since DH and I have been married...meanwhile DH and I share a car and have been in the same car, now with close to 200K miles and still in great condition, for 8 years. These are the kinds of differences I'm talking about.)
2. DH has in fact had a real job...and he works very hard. When his business started to fail, he did look for employment...has been looking...but it's difficult to find when you're mid-to-late 40's and have been out of the workforce for 10 years. He still picked up freelance work and projects as often as he could...it's just the past 2-3 years that that dried up, too. My point in all this is...he's never been complacent or "Oh Well" about not bringing in income. He's never been lazy. He's always tried to change it. He currently has a potential offer on the table for consulting with my workplace, in fact, which I'm hopeful about. He also does a lot around the house and has done work on our home that has increased its market value (adding a bedroom...now he's looking to add a bathroom) so he's added to our bottom line that way. I may not always agree on how he spends the money that he is gifted...but it is his at that point, free and clear...just as if he'd earned it. He is getting this money on a regular schedule that we can depend on, not asking his ex and his ex's parents for unearned support like BM. He's not wasting money from a loan or willingly and wastefully paying double for housing. He would also never leave his parents out of the loop like that when they were doing something kind for him and then just...shrug his shoulders about the loss he caused them. That's not who he is at all.
3. I know I've gotten very frustrated about the situation...and about how far in we've gone financially trying to save the business. Naturally, that's stressful and creates anger sometimes. But the other truth is...we do have that safety net and, because of it, I should probably stress less often. It's hard for me, though, as I'm a planner. We have also done smart things with our annual gift money, like paying off our home and car early, paying off debt...and adding to our home in ways that increase the value...so it hasn't all gone to prop up the business.
To me, the difference is mainly attitude. DH and I budget and, when we do talk to the kids about money, we talk about what's on our budget and don't give them unrealistic expectations.
Overall...if you knew my DH, BM, and SS you'd see what I see. DH has not been great with money...but he's light years ahead of BM. He takes really good care of his things, isn't wasteful or dismissive about money...and now that he's gotten over guilty parenting, he doesn't spend too much on skids, either. He's vastly improved from the beginning of our relationship...and even from a couple years ago. I do feel that he spends too much...but, again...he spends out of what we have, not out of what we don't have, putting us into debt. I also think he does have skin in the game, because that's his son creating a rift in the relationship with his parents...to me, that's a lot of skin in the game.
You were just saying before
You were just saying before Christmas that he had already spent the large amount of money that his parents give him to update the basement while he has no sustainable income. You were thinking about leaving him less than 6 months ago because of his selfish, bohemian ways.
TwoOfUs, you know I like you and have advocated for you to think things through before making any final decisions because I know you have been angry and frustrated. However, that doesn't take away from the fact that, while BM may be a hot mess, your DH has been financially, too.
Kids pick up on these things, and if I remember correctly, SS has worked with your DH on consulting projects. He saw your DH spend money he didn't have on both himself and SS. If your SS is in school to be in the same industry, or have talked to others in the industry, he likely knows what kind of lifestyle your DH WOULD have on his own, and it's not hard to see the difference between what he has versus what he has earned.
Better or not now, he and BM, and you and GPs in supporting roles, have created this entitlement by showing SS that there will ALWAYS be someone there to pick up the pieces. Your DH would be homeless or living with his parents (or his parents would be subsidizing his rent) if it weren't for you. As someone who has watched my parents make poor financial decisions over the years, you pick up on when they put themselves in poor situations.
I'm not saying your DH isn't a hard worker. However, if hard work paid the bills, poverty would be much lower than it currently is. Your DH and BM have set a precedent, and SS is following right in their footsteps.
I would be careful with any more
Money to SS. He needs to learn the value of money, and what happens when you blow it Away. He needs to get a job to pay for some of his expenses.
The thing is he has a job and
The thing is he has a job and his school is paid for by a grant and his rent by this loan...so I don't have any clue why he needs extra money.
He has utilties, food, and insurance only...DH and I cover his phone. But apparently his mom is still sending him money all the time. It's weird.